Spy Stealth Weapon

[Ion.67]

What do you think about triplenading? You probably can't do it on the Xbox, but we sure can. It requires a tad bit of skill, but I say leave it in. It is one of those things you learn, and once you do your day is slightly better.

[Farley4Fan]

You can triple nade on console, atleast on xbox.  Of course, it require more skill than on PC and there is much more room for errors because of the fact that you have to press more buttons to pull it off.

[Westfall]

What do you think about triplenading? You probably can't do it on the Xbox, but we sure can. It requires a tad bit of skill, but I say leave it in. It is one of those things you learn, and once you do your day is slightly better.

Triple-nading is a timing glitch. It shouldn't have been around either. I actually still can't do it because its really a waste of time. Not for those aggro players I'm sure, but then again....it doesn't really work out in the end. Thanks for tazzing me....then shoting three nades at me: the most important of which was the flash bang that practically has worn off by the time the tazz was done. Good use...no really.

[frvge]

I am fairly certain the amount of time between grenades (or between the 2nd and 3rd) will be increased.

[Gawain]

Thanks for tazzing me....then shoting three nades at me: the most important of which was the flash bang that practically has worn off by the time the tazz was done. Good use...no really.

good aggro players will flash you with the last nade, not with the first one. i'm totally ok with triple-nading and spamming nades as it's not that strong and will be even weaker with balanced smoke nades and no ridiculous host-grabs (on the other hand there will be no glitches like jumping etc and flash will work a little more reliably i guess).

[Farley4Fan]

There will be no jumping to get out of a grab?  That balances the game imo, and while it may look silly, it keeps spies from just running around them wildly.  It makes it harder for a grab and that's good, it needs to be challenging but still possible.

[Westfall]

Thanks for tazzing me....then shoting three nades at me: the most important of which was the flash bang that practically has worn off by the time the tazz was done. Good use...no really.

good aggro players will flash you with the last nade, not with the first one. i'm totally ok with triple-nading and spamming nades as it's not that strong and will be even weaker with balanced smoke nades and no ridiculous host-grabs (on the other hand there will be no glitches like jumping etc and flash will work a little more reliably i guess).

I know the flash is the last one. The affects aren't that ridiculous, especially if you don't hit the spy in the head or the feet. By the time the tazz wears off, you can already see again.

[Gawain]

my only problem with aggro is that the way most wannabe pros play it now on their laggy servers would never work without lag and without hostadvantage. with no lag you just aim at their head and they're dead after 2 hits which takes <1s. it's the same bullshit with quickcams, as the host of a good server you can activate the mask in time as a reaction for the cam noise in most situations, but on laggy servers you sleep in many situations with activated mask.
with a better net code aggro will probably become way harder to pull off but also way more effective if done by competent teams as you won't need the extra cautionary space in case of lag charges and one can't jump not to get grabbed anymore. the balancing will change dramatically in an even playing field...

[Spekkio]

K, think about it spekkio.  You have an opinon on the Iraq war right?  Well, have you ever experienced it or seen it up close and personal?  Probably not.   But by going off of what you hear, you have an opinion on it.  Just like I have an opinion on something that I've only heard about.

What opinions are you talking about specifically?

There is a big difference between me offering an opinion on whether or not we should've gone into Iraq in the first place, and offering an opinion that General so-and-so needs to adopt a new strategy to counter insurgents, especially if the person with whom I'm arguing is a seasoned officer. The former mostly had to do with politics and American foreign policy, which anyone who has researched the situation can comment on. However, I have no business saying anything about the latter because I can't possibly know the military situation without actually being there, no matter how many troops I talk to. For a reference of a group of ignoramuses offering an opinion on a topic of which they have no knowledge, google "code pink." Did you know that the USMC trains grunts to kill babies?

Your opinion on the balance of the crouch-dive-crouch maneuver equates to the latter. It doesn't matter what you heard about the game balance, you won't know until you've played it extensively.

Put another way: would you go visit a game forum for a game that you've never played, read through topics, and then start posting about how something needs to be nerfed/buffed based upon the posts you've read? Of course you could, since it's a free country and all, but you'd be an idiot for doing so. Now I know you've played CT on the Xbox, but this particular mechanic isn't in that version of the game, so the bottom line is that you don't know what it's like to play with and against it.

my only problem with aggro is that the way most wannabe pros play it now on their laggy servers would never work without lag and without hostadvantage. with no lag you just aim at their head and they're dead after 2 hits which takes <1s. it's the same bullshit with quickcams, as the host of a good server you can activate the mask in time as a reaction for the cam noise in most situations, but on laggy servers you sleep in many situations with activated mask.

When the spy is constantly trying to SS+Cam you, he's probably enjoyed host advantage too much.

Based on what I've heard, up until this point, what I heard was that it was an move that could get you through any set of lasers silently with no drawback.

You heard wrong, or you misconstrued what you heard. There are some lasers you cannot dive through at all (like the triple lasers in hospital). There are others that will be backed up by spy traps and mines (like the triple lasers in Aquarius). You can't just freely dive through everything without being careful.

Still, my suggestion is that you go play the game now that you have a PC capable of it, and then make your opinion from there.

I am fairly certain the amount of time between grenades (or between the 2nd and 3rd) will be increased.

Eh, I think they should hold off on this to begin with. It MIGHT be overpowered, it might not be.

[InvisibleMan999]

Put another way: would you go visit a game forum for a game that you've never played, read through topics, and then start posting about how something needs to be nerfed/buffed based upon the posts you've read? Of course you could, since it's a free country and all, but you'd be an idiot for doing so. Now I know you've played CT on the Xbox, but this particular mechanic isn't in that version of the game, so the bottom line is that you don't know what it's like to play with and against it.

While it's true we haven't played with this mechanic, we have played without it, and the mechanic itself has no innate balancing factor. It's a spy buff all the way. thus if you think the game is fine without the mechanic, adding the mechanic is bad because it helps one side and doesn't help the other, throwing things out of balance.

It's just basic logic. Just how we know that giving spies lethal weaponry won't improve the gameplay even though we've never actually played against spies with lethal weapons.

If you have a mechanic that affects both sides, the overall effect is difficult to gauge. If the mechanic is entirely one sided, it's not too difficult.

And really, anyone in favor of crouch-roll-crouch should also be in favor of just improving the spies crouch speed. IF you think it's okay and balanced to move faster while not making noise, great ok, then just make it the default and not a chore to execute. Otherwise, it honestly just comes off as pointless pro elitism, where you want to lord over some secret handshake over the newbies.

If you think it's balanced that spies should move faster while still being silent, then go ahead and say that. You might convince me on that. If you want to add secret handshakes to the game that require "mastering controls" just to walk correctly, I say screw that. All this does is give newbies a chance to fail dramatically and screw themselves over because their timing was off by half a second. Lets make this game about tactics and not button mashing just to get from point A to point b without getting heard. That's just an example of horrible controls and bad game design.

[AgentX_003]

my only problem with aggro is that the way most wannabe pros play it now on their laggy servers would never work without lag and without hostadvantage. with no lag you just aim at their head and they're dead after 2 hits which takes <1s. it's the same bullshit with quickcams, as the host of a good server you can activate the mask in time as a reaction for the cam noise in most situations, but on laggy servers you sleep in many situations with activated mask.
with a better net code aggro will probably become way harder to pull off but also way more effective if done by competent teams as you won't need the extra cautionary space in case of lag charges and one can't jump not to get grabbed anymore. the balancing will change dramatically in an even playing field...

on that note, with less lag/ better net coding  i dont think ud wanna stick around in a mercs face throwing smoke and what have you , unless you want a bullet up your ass =/.

[Farley4Fan]

Spekkio.  I was comparing me having an opinion based on things I hear about the crouch roll crouch and how everyone has an opinion on the iraq war based on what they hear about Iraq.  Not trying to get into a conversation about the war, but I was just making a point that people can have opinions based off of things they hear.

[Ion.67]

There is a problem with that though. You can't go up to someone who was already in the war and tell them how it is. It just doesn't work that way. All of the PC players have been in this so called war, so don't try and change any gameplay based on your xbox view. I think that is what spekkio meant.

[Farley4Fan]

Well, if you want to keep speaking metaphorically, there are protestors to the war and they only go off of what they hear.  But I get what you are saying, because those protestors are retards for the most part.   :D  Yeah, I just dissed myself metaphorically, strange.   :-X

[Spekkio]

Put another way: would you go visit a game forum for a game that you've never played, read through topics, and then start posting about how something needs to be nerfed/buffed based upon the posts you've read? Of course you could, since it's a free country and all, but you'd be an idiot for doing so. Now I know you've played CT on the Xbox, but this particular mechanic isn't in that version of the game, so the bottom line is that you don't know what it's like to play with and against it.

While it's true we haven't played with this mechanic, we have played without it, and the mechanic itself has no innate balancing factor. It's a spy buff all the way. thus if you think the game is fine without the mechanic, adding the mechanic is bad because it helps one side and doesn't help the other, throwing things out of balance.

It's just basic logic.

Your "basic logic" fails to take into account a whole slew of other factors. It's not like the spies can pull this move off and everything else between the two platforms remains constant. But Papa would know this if he played the game first instead of opening his mouth about something he doesn't know about.

Spekkio.  I was comparing me having an opinion based on things I hear about the crouch roll crouch and how everyone has an opinion on the iraq war based on what they hear about Iraq.  Not trying to get into a conversation about the war, but I was just making a point that people can have opinions based off of things they hear.

I didn't say anything specific about the war or my opinion of it. You should go back and re-read that part.

And really, anyone in favor of crouch-roll-crouch should also be in favor of just improving the spies crouch speed. IF you think it's okay and balanced to move faster while not making noise, great ok, then just make it the default and not a chore to execute. Otherwise, it honestly just comes off as pointless pro elitism, where you want to lord over some secret handshake over the newbies.

It's no "secret handshake." If you think that holding W and pressing C>Q>>>C with that approximate timing is a "chore" in order to move more quickly without pinging the reticle, then I don't know what to tell you. Btw, "silent" is a bit of a misnomer -- mercs can hear rolls quite easily if they are in the vicinity of the spy. Moves that are more advantageous ought to be harder to pull off; that's not elitism, it's common sense.

There is a problem with that though. You can't go up to someone who was already in the war and tell them how it is. It just doesn't work that way. All of the PC players have been in this so called war, so don't try and change any gameplay based on your xbox view. I think that is what spekkio meant.

I feel bad making this comparison, since it trivializes the war, but here goes:

If you equate the War in Iraq to CT on the PC, then the tactics used in Iraq by the U.S. Army are analagous to the tactics used in CT on the PC. Following that, what business would you or I have commenting on the tactics the Army uses in Iraq when we have no military training? Better yet, why would you even open your mouth to argue with someone who's been there? Likewise, what business do you have commenting on the tactics in CT on the PC when you have no experience with it? That's the point I was making. Yea, ok, you have some experience on the Xbox, but the mechanics between the two are very different. That would be like a Air Force officer telling an Army officer what his tactics should be on the ground.