HBS

[Spekkio]

Here's a controversial one for you:

HBS should drain energy from the gun similar to camo, perhaps even at a faster rate.

Why?

This device is silent (for the most part), works through any obstacle, and can be used infinitely. The only "drawback," if you could call it one, is that you have to have your gun out. However, that's usually an advantage because it allows people to more easily quick-cam the mercs. The only real way for a merc to neutralize or counter it is...well, there isn't one, hence the suggestion.

Discuss.

[Ion.67]

I never thought about this. I think it should drain slower than camo, for the sole purpose that this gadget is useful for following the merc out of its radius, and then hacking.

[Spekkio]

The camo timer, as it stands now, is plenty of time for you to observe a merc. There should probably be some restriction that you can't use it unless your energy is full, to avoid taking out/putting away constantly to get around the timer.

[Xris]

OR taking it out drains X ammount of energy to "start it up" and less well its actually out

[Ion.67]

The camo timer, as it stands now, is plenty of time for you to observe a merc. There should probably be some restriction that you can't use it unless your energy is full, to avoid taking out/putting away constantly to get around the timer.

But then you are stuck with a very low energy level, can't use camo, and will have very limited shots at the merc. I don't think it should be drastically slower, maybe 1.5 times?

[Spekkio]

The camo timer, as it stands now, is plenty of time for you to observe a merc. There should probably be some restriction that you can't use it unless your energy is full, to avoid taking out/putting away constantly to get around the timer.

But then you are stuck with a very low energy level, can't use camo, and will have very limited shots at the merc.

Yea, that's the point. What's the consequence of using it now?

[Gawain]

i don't think hbs should drain energy/time, but energy/use.
how about not having hbs scanning all the time when out and the player can press the use button to make a scan in a certain direction which drains some energy or the scan happens, say, every 5s?

[Ion.67]

The camo timer, as it stands now, is plenty of time for you to observe a merc. There should probably be some restriction that you can't use it unless your energy is full, to avoid taking out/putting away constantly to get around the timer.

But then you are stuck with a very low energy level, can't use camo, and will have very limited shots at the merc.

Yea, that's the point. What's the consequence of using it now?

There isn't one. My idea would be to make the consequence less severe than your consequence. I think it should have less of a drain because of the time it takes to hack, so you can cover your partner effectively with it.

[Westfall]

I don't really think it should drain anything. Maybe the switch to cam shouldn't be as fast? Maybe there should be some restriction there, but it shouldn't drain anything. That would essentially kill the gadget.

[Gawain]

The only "drawback," if you could call it one, is that you have to have your gun out. However, that's usually an advantage because it allows people to more easily quick-cam the mercs. The only real way for a merc to neutralize or counter it is...well, there isn't one, hence the suggestion.

you forget the very limited range which makes it pretty weak against sniping positions, especially without eax superhearing. so the counter for mercs is to just stay out of the radious which works quite fine on maps like factory.
also having to draw your gun and look around with it is a pretty good nerf as you either move quite slowly scanning every 2s or don't know shit about the merc's position while moving.
it also gives away your position if a merc is within a certain radius and you're using no snares.
quickcams won't be any real problem without host advantage and that much lag  (and hopefully a cut of the amount of stickies).
i'm not that sure if hbs really needs a nerf as bullets are quite strong and hard to counter, too. it's just that most players (especially the ones that started with ct and not pt) prefer hbs without ever having mastered bullets (for instance, sithduke is quite a good bullet player).

[Farley4Fan]

I say no.  It has drawbacks.  The fact that you light up on emf and that you have to completely slow down to use it make it harder to use in some situations.  You can't just sit around all day with it out because it has no drawbacks.  In fact, you have to put it away when you see a merc just for the fact that if he switches to EMF you are going to be found.  Plus you have to slow down.  If you are trying to get from point A to point B, and you want to search for mercs, you have to stop, do a 360 turn, and keep moving.

And don't forget that the reason it makes it different than spy bullets is that it has unlimited use.  Why make them more similar than they already are?  There needs to be differences in gadgets so they have the ups and downs to using one instead of the other.

[Spekkio]

The only "drawback," if you could call it one, is that you have to have your gun out. However, that's usually an advantage because it allows people to more easily quick-cam the mercs. The only real way for a merc to neutralize or counter it is...well, there isn't one, hence the suggestion.

you forget the very limited range which makes it pretty weak against sniping positions, especially without eax superhearing. so the counter for mercs is to just stay out of the radious which works quite fine on maps like factory.

The range is pretty far (you can detect a merc from across the room in digger), and this "counter" is highly map and weapon dependent.

also having to draw your gun and look around with it is a pretty good nerf as you either move quite slowly scanning every 2s or don't know shit about the merc's position while moving.

This drawback is also shared by other gadgets which fire from the gun, yet they are also limited in number. So what makes the HBS so special that you should be able to use it infinitely?

it also gives away your position if a merc is within a certain radius and you're using no snares.

Again, other gadgets make noise, and louder ones at that, yet they are limited in number. What makes the HBS so special that it should be infinite?

quickcams won't be any real problem without host advantage and that much lag  (and hopefully a cut of the amount of stickies).

Quick cams still work without lag.

i'm not that sure if hbs really needs a nerf as bullets are quite strong and hard to counter, too. it's just that most players (especially the ones that started with ct and not pt) prefer hbs without ever having mastered bullets (for instance, sithduke is quite a good bullet player).

Bullets give away your position, can be removed by the merc, and are limited to 5 per life. The HB sensor is mostly silent, cannot be removed or dodged, and has unlimited use. Hence the thread aimed at taking away the unlimited use.

The fact that you light up on emf and that you have to completely slow down to use it make it harder to use in some situations. 

EVERY gadget lights you up on emf, not just HBS. But other gadgets also have other limits to their use, such as limited number and a way for the merc to bypass its effects. Only the HBS can be used infinitely and without any way for the merc to counter it.

[Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet]

How about having hbs use 'charges'??
Say the Personal Energy Unit provides a pretty stable current of electricity, but it can also give a powerful jolt to the HBS gun addon, so it can detect any life within 15-20 meters on a 30-35 degree angle. Every time the Jolt function is used, the PEU burns out the cables a little.
After about 10-15 uses it stops to provide Jolts, because it could burn/ explode the cables/ PEU and just force all electronic systems to shut down, and since we don't want that, we lock the ability to use the last Jolt.

LoL, I made up a story to just say that it should have 10-15 uses.

[Westfall]

The only "drawback," if you could call it one, is that you have to have your gun out. However, that's usually an advantage because it allows people to more easily quick-cam the mercs. The only real way for a merc to neutralize or counter it is...well, there isn't one, hence the suggestion.

you forget the very limited range which makes it pretty weak against sniping positions, especially without eax superhearing. so the counter for mercs is to just stay out of the radious which works quite fine on maps like factory.

The range is pretty far (you can detect a merc from across the room in digger), and this "counter" is highly map and weapon dependent.

Maps will be bigger...a lot bigger. So the radar just doesn't need to adjust at all.

also having to draw your gun and look around with it is a pretty good nerf as you either move quite slowly scanning every 2s or don't know shit about the merc's position while moving.

This drawback is also shared by other gadgets which fire from the gun, yet they are also limited in number. So what makes the HBS so special that you should be able to use it infinitely?

Why can we use radar infinitely? Its just an electronic device built into the SS whereas camo, gasmask, and substance gadgets have the limits.

it also gives away your position if a merc is within a certain radius and you're using no snares.

Again, other gadgets make noise, and louder ones at that, yet they are limited in number. What makes the HBS so special that it should be infinite?

^

quickcams won't be any real problem without host advantage and that much lag  (and hopefully a cut of the amount of stickies).

Quick cams still work without lag.

There should be some nerf to switching so fast to do quick cams. I don't exactly know how, but its both cheap and unrealistic.

i'm not that sure if hbs really needs a nerf as bullets are quite strong and hard to counter, too. it's just that most players (especially the ones that started with ct and not pt) prefer hbs without ever having mastered bullets (for instance, sithduke is quite a good bullet player).

Bullets give away your position, can be removed by the merc, and are limited to 5 per life. The HB sensor is mostly silent, cannot be removed or dodged, and has unlimited use. Hence the thread aimed at taking away the unlimited use.

Bullets have some over powering abilities. There are places in maps where you can just land bullets to show where mercs are in several different rooms. Great placement. Granted they run out of time.

The fact that you light up on emf and that you have to completely slow down to use it make it harder to use in some situations. 

EVERY gadget lights you up on emf, not just HBS. But other gadgets also have other limits to their use, such as limited number and a way for the merc to bypass its effects. Only the HBS can be used infinitely and without any way for the merc to counter it.

The thing is, HBS already has its flaw: time. It takes a sec to pull out and put away. If you're not careful you can easily get charged with you holding it. You also can't see behind you anymore, which means you have to do a 360 in order to get a full pan view (not hard on PC, I know). It still leaves your back exposed.  Mercs already get so much with having a double backpack, why should there be a limit to the HBS? If you really want something to change, it should have a battery life that doesn't effect your shots from the SS. Refilled when you die of course, drains slower or equal to gasmask. 

[Farley4Fan]

I doubt anyone can stand here and tell me that they've never been charged while scanning the area with hbs.  It happens to the best of us.  And while it may not happen very often, it definitely can get you killed if you are not careful.  Other gadgets can't really do that.  They can unveil your position but they don't necessarily get you killed.  Even if you don't ever get killed while using hbs, it still slows you down.  There is a reason why gadgets have a big contrast in their features.  It's to make the gameplay and gadget choosing more interesting. 

Each gadget has their ups and downs, you have to sacrifice something to get something else, it's the way it goes.  If hbs receives a limited amount of use it becomes more similar to the spy bullet.  One of the downs to using spy bullets is that they are limited, the up to using hbs is that there is no limit.  One of the downs to using hbs is that  it slows you down to use it and you light up on EMF while you make your pretty ballerina 360, and one of the ups to spy bullet is that it takes minimal time to use and deploy and it hardly slows you down.

You could kind of call it a system of checks and balances.