Ask-the-Devs

[Tidenburg]

Smoke obscures your vision and makes u move slow. Flash needs somthin else ^^

[Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet]

Flash disables your hearing ability btw.

[I <3 U]

Smoke obscures your vision and makes u move slow. Flash needs somthin else ^^

God tidenburg, that sig is way to distracting ^^, i spend like 5 mins "re-reading" your posts.  ;D

[Gawain]

flash isn't underpowered, it's just a little buggy. it's rather that smoke is op.

[Westfall]

Neither are overpowering. Flash is only buggy because it only works if it is thrown in front of you, shot at your feet, or shot at your head. Thats not really buggy imo. Nothing needs to be changed on either.

[Farley4Fan]

Flash bangs are garbage on PC compared to xbox version. 

LoL?

Flashbangs are plenty effective. You may not prefer them, but they are just as good as smoke.

I said they are garbage compared to xbox version's flash bangs.  They are much more effective on xbox and even when they are that powerful they aren't overpowering.  You think they are plenty effective? You don't know what you're missing.  They aren't as good as smoke, even on the xbox version.

[frvge]

For open spaces, like Factory's main hall flash > smoke.
However, it doesnt work well in dark open spaces, because Mercs are usually in MT or EMF/laser then.

I used to take flash on clubhouse.

[Spekkio]

flash isn't underpowered, it's just a little buggy. it's rather that smoke is op.

Flash makes you blind for 3-5 seconds and takes away your hearing. It also takes you out of sniper mode instantly. It's countered by vision modes (minus the snipe part), which are countered with the sticky shocker or chaff.

Smoke slows you down while you're in the cloud and knocks you out if you don't put on mask or sit in the cloud. It somewhat obscures vision. It's countered by mask, which has no counter at all, and vision modes/laser to see through the smoke.

I don't see how either of these are overpowered or underpowered. They're just different gadgets for different purposes.

[Farley4Fan]

Blind for 3-5 seconds?  Lol?  Makes your screen take on a somewhat whitish overtone for 2 seconds tops.  Yeah, it takes away your hearing, but that doesn't matter much when the spy who used it on you is plain in sight.  How hard is it go back in sniper mode?  Not at all.  Although that is a good use for it I admit.  One of the only on PC.

You are right, they are different gadgets for different purposes.  But don't you think that the flash's use should be a little better?   I mean, Smoke obscures visions more effectively than a flash bang right in a merc's face.  Plus, it usually slows down a merc outside of the cloud anyways. A smoke nade can handicap a merc that is sniping also.  The sniping merc has to turn on gas mask, which is always a plus for spies.  And it forces the merc to go into motion.  All the spy has to do is stop moving until the merc eventually quits sniping and moves to a different position.  If the merc doesn't move then the spy has taken away a big chunk of the merc's only defense against smoke, gas mask.

Smoke isn't overpowered, it is useful.  Flash is useless AND underpowered.

[Xris]

I just had an interesting idea ... what if chaff effected mask.  Not because its eletrical, but because the chaff particles would plug the holes, and then once again u can't breath, however this will be due to lack of oxygen no because of smoke.  This also means if u had mask on preparing for a cam, and got chaffed, you could potentialy get KO'd from lack of oxygen if you didn't take mask off.

Also I'm not saying it's perfect but mask kinda does need a counter.

[Spekkio]

Blind for 3-5 seconds?  Lol?  Makes your screen take on a somewhat whitish overtone for 2 seconds tops.

Only if you use it at a far distance. Otherwise, you're just flat out wrong.

But don't you think that the flash's use should be a little better?

Nope.

Flash is useless AND underpowered.

I've seen plenty of players, including myself, use flash to great effect. That, by definition, makes them useful. As for underpowered: you may not prefer flashbangs, but enough people use flash that I don't think it needs any changes.

I've got well over a thousand hours logged on the PC version of SCCT, and you've got what, a few dozen if that? I suggest you play it more before you automatically dub something useless, especially since you outline some fantasy scenario where a spy is somehow dropping smoke grenades right next to a merc in sniper mode.

[Gawain]

smoke nades are clearly op. they are that op that every player needs to use a hard counter (mask) against the pure possibility of having to oppose a spy using them (and sticky cams), and still they're #1 choice in a competitive match. like i've pointed out before, i suggest these changes to smoke and stickies:
-make smoke nades slow down a little less and don't knock out mercs
-cut the amount of stickies to 3
flash nades would be perfectly fine if they worked reliably, eg always kicking the merc out of sniping mode and blinding (a merc not using a special vision) for at least 3s.

[Spekkio]

smoke nades are clearly op. they are that op that every player needs to use a hard counter (mask) against the pure possibility of having to oppose a spy using them (and sticky cams), and still they're #1 choice in a competitive match. like i've pointed out before, i suggest these changes to smoke and stickies:
-make smoke nades slow down a little less and don't knock out mercs
-cut the amount of stickies to 3
flash nades would be perfectly fine if they worked reliably, eg always kicking the merc out of sniping mode and blinding (a merc not using a special vision) for at least 3s.

If you take out mask, then yes smokes are very OP. However, with the mask, smokes and cams are balanced. A good merc doesn't run out of mask often, and usually has enough lives to spare to suicide to get more in the rare event he does.

You see most players taking them these days because most people, quite frankly, don't know how to play the damn game. Most people take the same exact loadout and try to do the same exact dumb shit that involves attempting (poorly) to abuse host exploits. The game is way past its hayday and the people left playing it generally have next to no innovation of tactics at all.

So basically, someone hosted a game, used shock + runaround + spam smoke, someone else saw it and said "gee, that looks easy" and copies it, and voila the majority of players do it because it's so mindless. Nevermind the fact that anyone good will still mow the player down pretty easily, and it's next to impossible to do this as a client. So yea, I guess if you're a merc trying to chase a spy through smoke in 250 ping, your mask won't last long. In most other cases, the spy doesn't last long, so I don't see the problem.

What's funny is how little I see camnet these days, which is the most overpowered POS in the game. Probably because Kronf and Led are the most ubiquitous good team still playing, so everyone is playing copycat to them. But hey, since the majority of players now take double backpack + mines + nades + mask, I suppose we need to buff camnet.

If the mask is to remain a selectable gadget, which is likely, I agree with toning down smoke a bit in order to make the mask a choice, not a necessity. This is from a design perspective, not a balance perspective. If the mask is given to the mercs outright, then it's fine as it is.

Cams are fine.

[T2C LeBron]

Flash bangs are garbage on PC compared to xbox version. 

LoL?

Flashbangs are plenty effective. You may not prefer them, but they are just as good as smoke.

I said they are garbage compared to xbox version's flash bangs.  They are much more effective on xbox and even when they are that powerful they aren't overpowering.  You think they are plenty effective? You don't know what you're missing.  They aren't as good as smoke, even on the xbox version.

Papa skull who r you? I've never seen you on xbl for ct, and i know almost everyone.  Are you one of those DM'ers?

I don't use flash i take spybullets instead.  Smoke is plenty for me.  But thats just ME i guess. I have a question do people play ct on comp?  Because i'm so close to buying it because you can use xbox controller for SPY.

[Hyrage]

I thought most of the people here were playing the PC version!?