nades...

[Farley4Fan]

Variation is nice, that's where new gadgets/features comes in.  The thing is that we don't really want to nerf smoke nades because if someone has gasmask they already lose a lot of their use.  Unless you catch a merc off guard with one, or you catch him with no gasmask left, or you catch a merc w/o a gasmask, all smoke is is a good aggro tool for blocking view and wasting gasmask so you can get him with a stick cam later. 

[Gawain]

cut the variations/new gadgets/other new fancy stuff/whatever would be sooooo great and original crap. adding new stuff isn't good for the gameplay in most cases, but you speak as if it was the other way round. just stfu ffs, noone needs nerve gas nades, backpack hiding games, pistols, etc ::)

vega is right, the goal should be to come as close to the ct vs mode gameplay as possible; i thought it wouldn't break any copyright no matter how similar it is anyways since it's all own code, graphics etc? my guess is that the guys use this only as a excuse to promote their fancy ideas of svm -.-

[Farley4Fan]

Wtf Gawain.  Did I not just say that I didn't want nerve gas?  I said variation is nice.  Is it not?  Would you just like to play a shiny old version of the same game you've been playing for years?  IT DOES NOT matter what the hell you think should be the goal, because well, it's NOT YOUR GOAL.  "It should be like this and it SHOULD be this and that way neh neh neh neh", come on now.  Open your mind to new ideas ffs.

[Westfall]

cut the variations/new gadgets/other new fancy stuff/whatever would be sooooo great and original crap. adding new stuff isn't good for the gameplay in most cases, but you speak as if it was the other way round. just stfu ffs, noone needs nerve gas nades, backpack hiding games, pistols, etc ::)

vega is right, the goal should be to come as close to the ct vs mode gameplay as possible; i thought it wouldn't break any copyright no matter how similar it is anyways since it's all own code, graphics etc? my guess is that the guys use this only as a excuse to promote their fancy ideas of svm -.-

I'm sorry, but if this game comes out replicating CT, I wouldn't play it. CT got boring fast. Coming as close to CT vs mode would be disasterous to the project imo. Gaiwan, you can copy ideas of SvM, but if you copy too much...then its copyright. Thats a hefty lawsuit that the PS team wouldn't be able to win. The new coding/graphics doesn't always ensure that something is free from copyright. Adding new things, making variation, and creating more diversity would be a healthy outlook for the game. Making it close to CT would put it in the shitter as fast as CT went into the shitter. THIS IS NOT CT....THIS IS A NEW GAME BASED UPON SPIES VS MERCENARY.

Am I wrong? Can a dev get in here and set the record straight since everyone has a different opinion of whats happening here.

[Vega]

From my understanding of what has been said about copyright, it seems we can get very, very close to what CT SvM was about without copyright infringement.  Changing some names, adding maybe something minor to it and we have a game to call our own.  Besides that, it's all based on a completely different engine with custom maps, animations, and models.

I too would like to have a dev come in here and set the record straight.  I want to know what the hell is actually going on.  But please make sure whoever speaks on the dev team knows what they're talking about.  This is getting tiring to hear how the "mission statement" varies from "cloning SvM" to "based on SvM."

[Gawain]

westfall, you will get tons of variation just by "fixing" ct. these are the main points:

-gadget balance: 90% of the "pro" players use smoke chaff stickies hbs or nades mask mines backpack with some minor changes depending on map and mate

-map loadout: basically there are only 3 well-balanced maps in ct: club, factory and orphanage

the gameplay will also drastically change as stealth will become easier (no uba eax and mt), but mistakes on the spy side will be punished way harder (better net code, better mouse implementation).

i don't give a crap about the views of noobs like papaskull, but westfall's statement (that he doesn't want to come as close to ct as possible) makes me quite curious what other other good players think about the optimal mission of this project. maybe it's time for a sclamers poll?
like vega said, the devs need to clarify if they changed the original mission or not.

[InvisibleMan999]

I'm sorry, but if this game comes out replicating CT, I wouldn't play it. CT got boring fast. Coming as close to CT vs mode would be disasterous to the project imo. Gaiwan, you can copy ideas of SvM, but if you copy too much...then its copyright. Thats a hefty lawsuit that the PS team wouldn't be able to win. The new coding/graphics doesn't always ensure that something is free from copyright. Adding new things, making variation, and creating more diversity would be a healthy outlook for the game. Making it close to CT would put it in the shitter as fast as CT went into the shitter. THIS IS NOT CT....THIS IS A NEW GAME BASED UPON SPIES VS MERCENARY.

Yeah, I agree. We need to add some new stuff.

[neth]

Westfall +1

[BurningDeath]

i don't give a crap about the views of noobs like papaskull, but westfall's statement (that he doesn't want to come as close to ct as possible) makes me quite curious what other other good players think about the optimal mission of this project. maybe it's time for a sclamers poll?
like vega said, the devs need to clarify if they changed the original mission or not.

As far as I'm concerned, I never thought the goal of Project Stealth was to copy the CT gameplay. In my opinion, the perfect formula would be somewhat like this: Two thirds of the best of PT and CT gameplay plus one third of new things that the devs come up with.

[Spekkio]

I'm sorry, but if this game comes out replicating CT, I wouldn't play it. CT got boring fast. Coming as close to CT vs mode would be disasterous to the project imo. Gaiwan, you can copy ideas of SvM, but if you copy too much...then its copyright. Thats a hefty lawsuit that the PS team wouldn't be able to win. The new coding/graphics doesn't always ensure that something is free from copyright. Adding new things, making variation, and creating more diversity would be a healthy outlook for the game. Making it close to CT would put it in the shitter as fast as CT went into the shitter. THIS IS NOT CT....THIS IS A NEW GAME BASED UPON SPIES VS MERCENARY.

Yeah, I agree. We need to add some new stuff.

Such as the sound/movement/ambient noise system I came up with a while ago? I think that would add more to stealthy gameplay than a dumb hologram. But everyone's like "noes, keep the movement set to two speeds!"

How about the CT coop version of the OCP that the spies would always have? Can silently disable any defenses if you have a LOS to it. The spy using it will be immobile during activation. Would be a happy medium between instituting this "glove" that can't shoot mercs, but would require both spies to be around to use it.

New stuff is good, but it needs to be taken as evolutionary steps (PT --> CT) rather than revolutionary steps (CT ---> DA).

But I disagree with westfall in that I don't think it's a bad thing if the game comes close to CT but with new maps + fixed mechanics. CT is a great game, and the only thing that makes it stale for me is that I've played all the maps 10,000 times.

As far as I'm concerned, I never thought the goal of Project Stealth was to copy the CT gameplay. In my opinion, the perfect formula would be somewhat like this: Two thirds of the best of PT and CT gameplay plus one third of new things that the devs come up with.

If you take the best of PT/CT/DA, you will already have a "new" game without having to come up with outlandish gadgets or silly changes for the sake of "variety."

[BurningDeath]

But I disagree with westfall in that I don't think it's a bad thing if the game comes close to CT but with new maps + fixed mechanics. CT is a great game, and the only thing that makes it stale for me is that I've played all the maps 10,000 times.

As far as I'm concerned, I never thought the goal of Project Stealth was to copy the CT gameplay. In my opinion, the perfect formula would be somewhat like this: Two thirds of the best of PT and CT gameplay plus one third of new things that the devs come up with.

If you take the best of PT/CT/DA, you will already have a "new" game without having to come up with outlandish gadgets or silly changes for the sake of "variety."

I'm not talking about outlandish gadgets or silly changes, and believe me, I'm the last person to support such things. I'm talking about things like the ambient sounds or the OCP you mentioned, or the new MT-system, ...

[I <3 U]

cut the variations/new gadgets/other new fancy stuff/whatever would be sooooo great and original crap. adding new stuff isn't good for the gameplay in most cases, but you speak as if it was the other way round. just stfu ffs, noone needs nerve gas nades, backpack hiding games, pistols, etc ::)

vega is right, the goal should be to come as close to the ct vs mode gameplay as possible; i thought it wouldn't break any copyright no matter how similar it is anyways since it's all own code, graphics etc? my guess is that the guys use this only as a excuse to promote their fancy ideas of svm -.-

I'm sorry, but if this game comes out replicating CT, I wouldn't play it. CT got boring fast. Coming as close to CT vs mode would be disasterous to the project imo. Gaiwan, you can copy ideas of SvM, but if you copy too much...then its copyright. Thats a hefty lawsuit that the PS team wouldn't be able to win. The new coding/graphics doesn't always ensure that something is free from copyright. Adding new things, making variation, and creating more diversity would be a healthy outlook for the game. Making it close to CT would put it in the shitter as fast as CT went into the shitter. THIS IS NOT CT....THIS IS A NEW GAME BASED UPON SPIES VS MERCENARY.

Am I wrong? Can a dev get in here and set the record straight since everyone has a different opinion of whats happening here.

I agree with bost westfall and gawain on this, i'd like a game that play a lot like ct but sometimes gawain, changes are for the better :) Im all for new gadgets, just so long as there balanced. Which brings me onto my new topic, something which just spurred in my head whilst i was writing this.

What about a spy rapel gadget (like the batman gadget) where the rapel hook thingy can be shot out of the gun, and spies could climb the rope perhaps?

What do you guys think?

[I <3 U]

"Such as the sound/movement/ambient noise system I came up with a while ago? I think that would add more to stealthy gameplay than a dumb hologram. But everyone's like "noes, keep the movement set to two speeds!"

How about the CT coop version of the OCP that the spies would always have? Can silently disable any defenses if you have a LOS to it. The spy using it will be immobile during activation. Would be a happy medium between instituting this "glove" that can't shoot mercs, but would require both spies to be around to use it."

These are the two best ideas yet IMO. I think the OCP is an excellent idea, it would encourage teamwork alot, and it pisses me off that sometimes u have to give ur posish away before hacking an obj, so all your stealth goes to waste because (e.g. u have to shoot the camera in steam to be able to hack it) and the merc hears. Im all for a new speed system to, just so long as its not ridiculously complicated.

[Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet]

People... PT was perfect, if you look at the concepts. Turned out great (excluding bugs).
Ct was more than perfect (concepts), then it was also good, but less than PT.
DA was first "Cool, new game", and then it turned out to be a bullshitty game.

So, what i want to say, is: Keep your ideas raw, then when they work either leave them as they are, or improve them.
Gadgets that overlap in functions is a difficult subject, but look at this the very obvious way:
Smoke grenades are not going to put you to sleep, if you stand in them. They will obscure your vision, they will make your eyes tear, but you will not fall.
Camgas, instead, would make cough very hard, and then go unconscious. It isn't a "Hey im feeling sleepy" thing. The merc should at least make a try to keep on going (i'd say 2-4 seconds, but im no expert).
Now, about the hack glove... I think it should keep a constant hacking time from any distance, since It wouldn't even be a guess game if the percentage went at different speeds. Instead, it should hack VERY slowly, like 1/3-1/4 of what's the hack-time now. Other than that, for security, it should have an OCP-like device (CTSP), and the mercs should not know about the security failure.
Next of that come the 3xNades - an easy solution would be to make the spy to actually stand still/move slow and reload.
That's all i have to say for now.

<Please note that everything i wrote here is MY opinion on the subject, nobody is meant to be offended and I'm a leaver (according to twoface)>

[neth]

What about a spy rapel gadget (like the batman gadget) where the rapel hook thingy can be shot out of the gun, and spies could climb the rope perhaps?

That could be cool, but not in a way of batman gadget but single player thing. Spies could attach the string to some place and slowly move hanging upside down - like in sector 2 on station from the ceiling to the ground. They could wait to perform reverse neck break.