**Wider VentS***

[Gawain]

vents are no-brainer stealth. the fun part about svm is stealthing around the mercs, and that's quite boring in a place they can't find you. how about making the map darker, bigger, adding more obstacles, little rooms and corridors etc instead of placing tons of vents?

[frvge]

I think this part of the discussion is useless...
Vents will always be needed as some safety for the Spies.
Vents near objectives are usually guarded or the design of the vent makes the Spy, once in, fairly trapped, when the Mercs have some teamwork.

Nading a vent through holes is possible, but not everywhere. I think it's ok in the few on Factory.

[Gawain]

with the exception of one or two unimportant little vents the vents on factory are an example of good vent placement as they do a good job getting the spies on the map from the spawn but far enough away from objectives.

[Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet]

Vents next to objectives should be one way only, preferably for escaping.

[Farley4Fan]

well, i'd say there are quite easy guidelines: no vent exits/entrances close to objectives, as few vents as possible, make vents less of a safe place (non-bullet proof vents like on station, half-open ceiling like on orph 2nd floor corridor, nerve gas release like on missile strike). in ct maps i always have the feeling that they put in vents just because they found out "oh this part of the map isn't balanced, let's put a vent in, sounds like an easy solution". of course you can't and shouldn't get rid of vents totally, you really need them for the spawn etc.

I don't know why you would say "as few vents as possible". Don't know about you, but I like to remain out of the merc's sight. Thats just me though. A vent near an objective doesn't really cause problems, especially because there are counters to every possible situation with a spy being in a vent. Why would you leave a spy in a vent near the objective? This is where time/nades/mines/sniper comes into play. Pretty much a guarantee that the spy better go another direction where the other merc might be? What is the spy's partner doing? Probably losing more lives while the person stays stranded in the vents. There are balances to everything involving vents. Limiting the amount of vents someone puts in PS would probably fuck up the game. For real though.

@ Papa: About the hole in the wall to shoot a vent through....really? Does it need to be easier to kill the spy? Vents shouldn't really be dangerous to be inside. Its a vent....an area of duct work that is quite secluded. "Imagine how much easier it would be if there was a punctured hole in a vent to kill a spy." IMAGINE HOW MUCH EASIER. Making it easier isn't the point.

It was just a suggestion.  It's up to the map designer as I said before if there needs to be an easy way to kill a spy in a vent.  If vents near objectives really are too much of an advantage for spies then there should be some danger to going into them, like getting trapped or killed.  But I honestly can't see how they are too much of an advantage.  And I agree with you.

@Rambo:  Come on, you are kind of exaggerating now.  You can't go from one side of the map to the other with the vents in CT, and I doubt our designers would make a vent that you could do it in.  No brainer stealth you say?  I don't think I've ever won a match because I stealthed around the map using vents only.

[InvisibleMan999]

Vents for the most part weren't too bad in CT. Though for a lot of areas I really would prefer more darkness, side corridors and obstacles.

Vents are dangerous map problems potentially if the map designer over uses them, because then you get DA-style maps. Still, vents have their place for spy only routes so spies have a few other options to sneak into places, like the vent system on clubhouse is essential.