Something that's been nagging at me for a bit now...

[VenomousNinja]

The beta.
No, this isn't a "WHEN U RELEASE DEV" post, this is a more of a "Y U NO RELEASE" post.

The thing about indie projects, and mods, is that they have one big fucking advantage over non-indie producers, and that's that they can differ vastly in their corporate model. Full scale game production takes a lot of time, a lot of money, and a lot of risk. Professional dev companies creating games for money, and this is the factor that creates risk, and forces a large amount of money into the product. Indie devs, on the other hand, often create games because they fucking like games.

Professional devs, though, have a big advantage over indie devs - People know that professional devs will get the job done, and the game will be good. They're willing to hang onto every screenshot, every minute long video and be sure that the finished product will be good, based on the companies track record. And this is what professional developers depend on. Indie devs don't have this track record, and therefore they lack this trust from the public..

Now, the thing about indie devs, is that they don't care too much about the money, but about releasing something that others will like. Creating an indie game only (usually) involves a lot of time, and this allows indie devs to release an unfinished product, with the understanding that they'll release more as they get it done in order to gain higher amounts of interest in their project. The recommended, and often most effective model for indie games is the "release early, release often" mentality, where you release actual versions of the game as early as you can, no matter how broken, and as quickly as you can, to prove that your concept can work, to prove that you are actually creating quality work, and to allow the public to provide better input on the subject of the game, and suggest fixes for any feature obviously broken. This creates better rapport with the public, and therefore more trust with them, since the public knows that you are continually working on finishing a product, and will be more willing to wait for the game and play the finished and full version.

This helps the indie dev accomplish their goal of putting out a good game to a large amount of people to enjoy. The professional model accomplishes the goal of putting out a good game and have it return a profit. With a different goal, a different model works best.

Now this relates to PS, because they've failed the indie model. There are about 10, maybe, active forums users, and a good lot of them fucking hate each other. I imagine that if PS had followed the "release early, release often" model, there would be a bigger fanbase, a tighter community, and more certainty of success for the devs.

Now, in this knowledge, I am curious as to why the devs chose not to release early and often.
So, if you wouldn't mind revealing your master plan...

[AgentX_003]

I think your being a bit harsh in retrospect because I know alot of people that are eagerly waiting for this game and don't post
on this forum, Now as for the hate , yes I"ll openly admit it that some of the hate comes from me due to If I see someone full out
hacking using inf cams and what have you I will call them out on it. Part of my motive as well is to keep this forum Bumping because-

I would hate to see this forum turn into a Ubisoft forum where everyone is Posting their little opinions on How Sam Fisher is the greatest
and this n that and the other. ( ie.Farley fan is guilty of this just for being from the Ubi Forums / Xbox because there was a long rivalry between PC vs Xbox on the  Ubiforums so I fought with em just to play rather then see him post useless spam topics ) , and if people would just shut the fuck up and stop posting their little crevice of opinions then ya  they would have alot more people online close to the figures of say a game like counterstrike.

[DreadStunLock]

So, if you wouldn't mind revealing your master plan...

I won't be surprised if they just skip this topic, + I think they got waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much crap to deal with in real life, than to come up with some huge ass master plan while still knowing, they gain nothing out of it.

[frvge]

Our master plan is WORLD DOMINATION and it goes like this:

1: Make PS
2: ?
3: Profit! (and WORLD DOMINATION)

Anyway, we were close to real gameplay some time ago, but then Lennard got busy, which I explained in the past. Now that he's back, we'll be getting slightly more progress, until he can spend more time on it (school stuff aside). So the 'release often' will, probably, come. Maybe just not in the way you'd expect.

I'm thinking about focus groups on an invite-only basis for the first few iterations. After that, some public betas.

Why a bit closed and not completely open? The reason is that people will moan about every little thing, even if I make it clear that it's not finished yet. This moaning can put other people off, so it's important to release stuff that plays well enough to please a random potential fan.

[DreadStunLock]

You could try something like an online form, there are only 20 people or so, and with the information they filled in, you decide then.

[Farley4Fan]

There are about 10, maybe, active forums users, and a good lot of them fucking hate each other.

lololol so true

I don't know how you can hate someone based on what they say on a forum without ever meeting them in real life, but it's true.

[knooger]

There are about 10, maybe, active forums users, and a good lot of them fucking hate each other.

lololol so true

I don't know how you can hate someone based on what they say on a forum without ever meeting them in real life, but it's true.

That's so easy. I hate you all niggers :P

[Cronky]

I can't tell if I'm supposed to do something about that last post or not.

Mod because there's no need for racial slurs on the forum...

Don't mod because without it the whole point of the post is gone...

Well played KnoogeR, well played. ;)

[DreadStunLock]

That's because in places like, Poland, Lithuania, Russia, Ukraine, that word is legalized, until one of those people goes into a mixed race country and gets a first punch into the nose.

[knooger]

I can't tell if I'm supposed to do something about that last post or not.

Mod because there's no need for racial slurs on the forum...

Don't mod because without it the whole point of the post is gone...

Well played KnoogeR, well played. ;)

Haha, thanks :)

That's because in places like, Poland, Lithuania, Russia, Ukraine, that word is legalized, until one of those people goes into a mixed race country and gets a first punch into the nose.

I know how to use these words and I know what they mean. :) You think there is not a single black guy in Poland nor my town?

[Farley4Fan]

I thought one of Poland's founding principles was no black people allowed.

[DreadStunLock]

Farley....:O BAN REQUEST! I AM OFFENDED!

[LennardF1989]

This went from serious to VERY off-topic. Good job.

I still love you guys equally none the less though :-*

[VenomousNinja]

Our master plan is WORLD DOMINATION and it goes like this:

1: Make PS
2: ?
3: Profit! (and WORLD DOMINATION)

Anyway, we were close to real gameplay some time ago, but then Lennard got busy, which I explained in the past. Now that he's back, we'll be getting slightly more progress, until he can spend more time on it (school stuff aside). So the 'release often' will, probably, come. Maybe just not in the way you'd expect.

First, I approve of that plan in full.
Second, I'm curious, what features do you think you need for real gameplay, and out of those required features, how many are done and how many are close?

Why a bit closed and not completely open? The reason is that people will moan about every little thing, even if I make it clear that it's not finished yet. This moaning can put other people off, so it's important to release stuff that plays well enough to please a random potential fan.

As much as I'd like to vouch for everyone here and say "No way these guys are mature!" the way this topic has gone in a matter of around 24 hours proves me otherwise. :\

[NeoSuperior]

I got a hard time... when i see a topic becoming off-topic, i usually hold myself back, so i don't get into temptation, to anti-troll on dread or agent (or both).

However that leads to the problem, that i am "not very active" in the forum and i don't get to take part in the closed beta or something^^

As much as I'd like to vouch for everyone here and say "No way these guys are mature!" the way this topic has gone in a matter of around 24 hours proves me otherwise. :\

---

[offtopic]
Well, it is not bad, to make the forum a bit more.... "livlier" (if written wrong, read my sig :P). However there should always be a limit, how far those "living up tactics" go. The "jokes" should only be a little addition to the post, which main contents should always be ONtopic.

Maybe we should open a "public -> off-topic" thread in the offtopic forum, to continue any discussions that made a serious topic become offtopic?
[/offtopic]

---

back2"ONtopic":
I think the people that will become part of the closed BETA should be people who...

1. Are part of the forum.
2. Have "positive" (or at least "0") karma in the forums (exceptions MAY be possible  ;D)
3. Can understand, that an ALPHA or BETA is not the whole game and not the meassurment against SC:CT (although it may be better than SC:CT in this early phase already ;))
4. DOES NOT:

• "let every single detail leak out"
• "laugh at others for not being part of the closed beta"
• "want to play, just so he can play before everyone else/as fast as possible" I would like to say... however in that case really NO ONE here would be able to play PS before everyone else match the criteria in this list.

5. Reports bugs, makes screenshoots, makes videos
6. most important: got enought free time to play with the other members of the closed BETA, because otherwise... seriously we probably will not have too many "alternatives", if some of the testers got no time, when the others do.