i am an atheist

[frvge]

You're dodging his other, more on-subject points.

[Cyntrox]

I can't see any contradiction here. Fact that someone fully experienced some religion doesn't mean that he is strong enough to stay with it or not to be attracted by some other religion.

Duh, if there was a revelation to be had in the church alone, there wouldn't be need of any other religion than christianity. So my point is that your statement about the church being the only way to fully experience religion is false.

So what, it only proves that this disorder/illness is typical not only for humans.

No, it proves that it's perfectly natural.

If you want the definition go search the WHO definition before 1990, when the homosexuality was erased from the illnesses list. Have you heard about reason why that happened ? some kind of breakthrough in medical research ?

I know that it was considered an illness a long time ago, but I guess scientists realized that homosexuality is not an illness. That's pretty logical...

Yes it has negative effects - it is a disorder that makes the procreation impossible from the psychological point of view, while it is still possible from the psychical point of view (which doesn't mean these people can't be cured through some kind of therapy).

The world is overpopulated anyways. As long as homosexuals are a minority (which they are), it's not an issue.

Also, what about these guys who have sex with trees, excrements or dead bodies ? These guys feel great each time they do it and would surely deny if you asked them about the negative effects. Why don't we just erase these cases from disorders list, they don't hurt anyone!

Those are fetishes, not disorders. And apart from necrophilia, I agree. They don't hurt anyone, so just let them do their thing.

[Roberto1223]

it's not that they are unnatural, they're just mentally ill people that should be given help.

u cant really turn a fag into a normal man.

what does your religion say if a woman wants an abortion because the child has down syndrome and she cant take care of him (no money, nor time)?

the priests say "no no he has the right to live dont kill him, help him!"

but when it comes to gays ('also mentally ill people'), god strikes them  with flaming comets, and priests pray for their "cure" (equivalent to erradication).

religion is all bullshit.

In my opinion: Since homosexuality is not "normal" (it is below the avarage), and because there has to be a reason for its existance (according to my ideology); i believe that the source of this problem is located in the mind/brain of the homosexual patient; therefore making them psychologicaly/psychiatricaly different to us heterosexuals (exclusively in cases where the homosexual person has had that behavior since birth). i cant really say its an illness/disorder etc. because it dosent fall into those definitions. i think there is something wrong in their brains medically speaking though. i do not believe it is curable, and though i dont like to hang out with homosexual people. i let them be (i am indifferent), and i do not wish their death or the erradication of their kind.

and no i would not like to see my son grow up to be that way, but i guess id have to accept him as he is.


THIS GOES FOR ALL OF U USING WIKIPEDIA:
WIKIPEDIA IS NOT A CREDIBLE SOURCE.

yes, some things are true there but still; pleas use other sources.

[Roberto1223]

Cyntrox: "Duh, if there was a revelation to be had in the church alone, there wouldn't be need of any other religion than christianity. So my point is that your statement about the church being the only way to fully experience religion is false."


NETH meant something else. he meant that the only way to experience the christian religion is to at least go to church once in a while. (towards all the self-proclaimed "christians" that never go to church.)

he didnt mean to say that "the christian church is the only way to fully experience RELIGION in general".

you misunderstood him.

[Westfall]

You're dodging his other, more on-subject points.

Thank you.

Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Actually, the way you answer is quite...disappointing, One could expect more from you.

Like Roberto said, Wikipedia is NOT a credible source for anything. It is a nice go to gadget, but doesn't count for shit in the real world.

You forgot something. Homosexuality is a mental disorder. It's funny how you dodge all my arguments showing their illness. You also keep talking about God you don't believe in constantly trying to insult my feelings but it only makes me smile. Religion has had completely no impact on my opinion about homosexuality. All my thoughts are logical while yours are based on emotions.

Homosexuality is NOT a mental disorder. It's a mental disorder to those of you who don't understand that there is NO SUCH THING AS "NORMAL". I speak of

your God

because its your faith. I'm under the impression that you're a Jesus-lover because of how you portray yourself. Your thoughts are not logical, rather they are bound to the impressions pressed upon you by your family, teachers, public officials, and your church or book from your church. You can put a brain monitor on someone and believe they have a mental disorder because the colors change, but how does that justify being a disorder if its not harmful to the person? Multiple personalities, bipolar, depression, schizophrenia, ADD (not convinced though - its bad parenting) are mental disorders. I agree someone hugging trees and fucking dead people are on the top of the list of psychological effects, but liking a counterpart of either gender is NOT a mental disorder. It is NOT an illness and could never be dubbed one. ANY sources you show me have zero credible evidence for homosexuality being a "disease".

You still don't want to admit that gay behaviours are unnatural (yes, unnatural because they are against the NATURE, they bring nothing but pleasure to these people while they are socially non-productive) It's a pity I have to repeat myself but you seem to avoid answering some parts.

Socially non-productive? Who the fuck are you to say what is and what isn't socially productive? They are socially productive in how they handle their freedom and how they handle themselves in society...they have jobs and fulfill the tax payer's priorities. As far as natural...pleasure is natural, but you're obviously so logical that you can't realize that. It's NATURAL that we as a human species don't overpopulate the planet...hey, guess what....one way is by being gay and NOT having children...or rather, adopting one so another child can have a better life. But this is too "far-out" for you, so close your mind again.

Also, funny how tolerant person you are here and how "homophobic" you were when you called Kokafan - Cockfan or Yayzor - Gayzor on SCLamers. So, everything was ok there ? Does the word "tolerance" allows you to defend gays in public but to laugh at them when you're with your friends in much smaller community ? Oh wait, that's not tolerance, that's HYPOCRISY.

It's not homophobia...its a term that society has molded into being derogatory. It's a word you stupid fuck. I don't laugh at gay people, I laugh at the idea of a term dubbing someone something when it means happy. I laugh at the idea of people getting offended for something they aren't. They're human. Not gay, not straight, not bi...human. They aren't white, black, asian, indian...they are human. They aren't catholic, atheist, muslim, jewish...they're human. Keep throwing labels on people and you end up just that, a label. Why don't you separate yourself from society a little more and be better than people with "mental disorders"? Real winner over here.

Also, as far as I'm concerned, you are the homophobe...thinking that being homosexual is an illness...please. Pretty sure you have a mental disorder.

Now, come on, call me names, insult me more and remember, in your world the God doesn't exist, there are only the rights of nature.

Its not that God doesn't exist...but that you don't fucking know what does or does not exist. Having a set position on a deity or non deity is retarded. Knowing that there are greater things at work beyond our understanding would put you in a boat that actually floats.

Sorry for calling you names.

[Tidenburg]

I don't usually do this but it looks like no-one else is going to:

- please don't call eachother names.
- please minimize the use of expletives.
- for heated debates, when the previous points aren't met, please take it to a Private Message

All in all, please don't do stuff that might make visitors frown.

Just because YOU may think homosexuality is a disease, you shouldn't go around blabbing it about, not all visitors here are going to be heterosexuals and it won't make a very good first impression, now will it?

[frvge]

A discussion/debate like this is IMO fine, as long as controversial debates like this are only a very small minority in the bigger picture of all OT topics. I'm actually kinda surprised that it's still mostly friendly. Keep it up.

[Roberto1223]

well if a homosexual male finds another mans penis attractive/sexualy arousing, unlike most of the rest of the human males. i think that there must be something different in that man's mind. maybe not a curable 'illness', but also not a competely functional one if u look at it from a evolutionary point of view where the objective of life is to reproduce for survival.

i d k a word that could replace 'illness' or 'disease' at the moment ill try and look for one.

[Tidenburg]

Since when did religious people look at things from an evolutionary point of view?

[frvge]

Priests aren't allowed to reproduce AFAIK either. I could be wrong on that one, because I'm not that into it.

btw, would you classify being a lefty as an illness? 1/5th of the population is statistically gay, and 1/3rd is a leftie.

[Tidenburg]

I think the whole thing is stupid, people who say it's an illness are right that there is somthing different in their minds but the point is the words "disease" or "illness" imply it is a bad thing, if they think that way then they should be asking themselves why they care about what other people do (mostly) behind closed doors.

[Westfall]

I think the whole thing is stupid, people who say it's an illness are right that there is somthing different in their minds but the point is the words "disease" or "illness" imply it is a bad thing, if they think that way then they should be asking themselves why they care about what other people do (mostly) behind closed doors.

Its because it is psychological. As far as it being a disorder....that's really pushing it. Disorder is something we frown upon as a society, and needs a fix. It all goes along the lines of someone dubbing someone else as normal or abnormal. Again though, who are you/we/me to dub something normal.

[Tidenburg]

One theory for homosexuality is that after a woman gives birth to her first son the womb contains less testosterone. But some people have been "turned" hetero via hypnotherapy and a suprising number just swap (it even happens the other way apparently!).

[Roberto1223]

Since when did religious people look at things from an evolutionary point of view?

i dont know if you knew this but im not religious. im an atheist. i created the thread rofl.

[Farley4Fan]

Come on.  Most money goes to the church or charities.  It's not going TO God, it's going toward what we think God wants it to go to.  Give me a break frvge.  BUT, I do agree that there are some "religions" (lol) out there that are just money hungry bastards trying to hypnotize.  They definitely can give a bad name to the religions that only want to do good things.

Scientology ring a bell?  Jehova's Witness?  Sheesh.

Yes, because by the power of the priests, bishops, archbishops, and the pope....they speak FOR GOD and they know exactly where the money should go because he whispered in their ears. The money goes to keeping the church open and to pay your priests for his hard work in cleaning your soul of your sins in the booth you 2 go in...because god gave him the power.

However, some churches (Methodist rings a bell) use money to do outside programs and continue youth groups, donations, etc. The Catholic church wants your money because it is your duty on this planet to give the money to the church...cuz God said so....

so it goes towards what we think God wants it to alright...

Bullcrap.  You know what I mean.  Our best guess about where we think God would like the money to go to is where we will send possible donations.  Not talking about Catholics specifically.  Talking about Christian-ran charities.  These people, the people of the church, want to do nothing but good - which is (duh) what we think God would want. 

First friggin thing I find on Google (Christian charity organizations) - http://www.compassion.com/child_sponsorship_info_opt/christian_charity_organization.htm

The list is damned long.  Don't deny this, bud.  Christians are good people, in general.  Yes, there are radicals that need to open their minds and think (people trying to ban condoms), but for the most part A LOT of the charities and donation organizations are Christian.  If these organizations didn't ever exist the world would be even worse than it is, poverty wise and such.  Respect that at least.

Since when did religious people look at things from an evolutionary point of view?

Have you read my posts?  I certainly do think that evolution could have happened, however, no one knows.  Does not at all disprove the existence of a superior being. 

We 'evolved' to have sex with the opposite sex.  Pretty damn simple.  If there are a few people out there that are attracted to the same sex, why the hell should I care?  I think it's disgusting, absolutely.  I think it's wrong too.  But that's their choice and there's no changing them.  Homosexuals are people, obviously, so should get the same exact rights as straight people.  When gays try to get EXTRA rights is where it really ticks me off.  I don't believe that they should be able to marry but this does not contradict what I said earlier about rights.  Marriage is not a right.

As for being born gay?  No one is just born gay.  Sure, they may be born with less/excess testosterone/estrogen, but that is nothing that cannot be fixed.  The reason I say no one is born gay is because it defies the basic instincts of our species to not want to reproduce.  Even gays nowadays are cheating and looking for ways to reproduce even without a mate of the opposite sex.  No one is naturally born with the knowledge that you can still reproduce even if you are attracted to the same sex. 

As with every species one of our MAIN instincts is to reproduce and to continue our species.  If gays were naturally born gay then they'd be missing the instinct to reproduce because you are not able to with someone of the same sex.  Does that mean there's something wrong with their brain when born?  Not necessarily, but it shows that it's a choice.

If you just think about that then you'll see that homosexuality is a choice not a gene in our DNA.