i am an atheist

[Farley4Fan]

I'm not to into the whole organized religion thing either.  I am technically a Christian (I believe in God, Jesus, try to live my life to the best of my ability with the 10 commandments in the back of my head) but I can't stand things like Christian music, I never go to church, etc.  However I do respect those trying to spread the word of Jesus.  A moral preacher with words ahead of his time.  Words of advice, try to be nicer to those who walk up to your door.  Wrong or not, they are trying (what they believe) to save your soul.  What's wrong with that?  Most of em aren't just "little fuckers", ya know?  You'll occasionally get those imposters, who really belong to a cult and not a caring religion like Christianity, who want your money.  Those are the little fuckers you speak of.  lol

So, Blank Man, you're agnostic.  I see that as a respectable stance.  We can't really know for sure.  Either way.  It's all about the feelings we get.  Is there more to life?  Are we just a random result of the big bang?  Who knows?  I think there is more, a God, an afterlife (if you can call it that), Jesus is the messenger of God, for the rest I look at science.  The more I look at science, the more that I see that there's more to our universe.  The more I see things, the easier it is for me to believe that we aren't just a random result of an enormous explosion of matter.  Many scientists realize this - believe it or not.  Science and fact isn't the road to atheism like some would have you believe.  Like Goodkebab put it so long ago, science's goal is not to disprove God but to show how he works.

[Westfall]

I think there is more, a God, an afterlife (if you can call it that), Jesus is the messenger of God, for the rest I look at science.  The more I look at science, the more that I see that there's more to our universe.  The more I see things, the easier it is for me to believe that we aren't just a random result of an enormous explosion of matter.  Many scientists realize this - believe it or not.  Science and fact isn't the road to atheism like some would have you believe.  Like Goodkebab put it so long ago, science's goal is not to disprove God but to show how he works.

Just out of curiosity...what is your god? You believe in an after life? Wouldn't that make this reality a program?

I'm happy that you're paying attention to the universe. As far as I'm concerned, the universe is god...think about it.
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/archivepix.html

P.S. agnostics believe that there is "something more".

[Cyntrox]

All those "commandings of murder", the ones you think are encouraged in the bible, simply are not.  They obviously aren't trying to get you to kill because on the next page it tells you not to kill.  This may seem like an obvious contradiction but I seriously doubt that the greatest book of all time, whoever the writer may be (matter of opinion), would be stupid enough to trip over his/her own feet so blatantly.  There's something else.  A message of morality in those words, the ones you think are telling you to stone your ox to death.  Lol.  Not meant literally.  Not all of it in the bible is meant literally, of course.

It says many places that you are supposed to kill, and it says one place that you're not supposed to kill. Yet you believe the one place that it says you're not supposed to kill rather than all the other. Why is that? And "that's simply how it is" is not a valid explenation. Here's the thing: You think very highly of the bible and christianity, and thus you try to defend it instead of re evaluating your beliefs.

As for WHY the bible contradicts itself, it was written by many people, not one writer.

Yes, because I don't think that the God like the one Islamic people worship could ever exist, so therefore it was written by men.  I don't believe a sexist, murder-encouraging creator could exist.  If there is a creator, stay with me, don't you believe that the God would stand up for equal rights and equal oppurtunity for all his creations?  Not just the men?  This goes back to when you said Islam was more believable the Christianity.

The other God, the RIGHTEOUS God, I believe exists. 

I agree with you completely, and that's much of the reason why I left christianity: I don't believe that a sexist, murder-encouraging creator could exist. Refer to my last post, it showed both sexism and commands of capital punishment.

(...)afterlife(...)

Speaking of which, could you tell us what your idea of heaven and hell is? I'd like to hear.

[Tidenburg]

Papaskull, No offense but it seems to me that your religion therefore results from a lack of understanding in the science behind the big bang. Saying that our existance is random is stupid, if I rolled a die 1 million times and got a six would you be suprised? Of course not. Of the millions upon millions of planets in our universe, it was inevitable that at least one would be able to support our kind of life (just like rolling a die enough times will normally get you the result you want). And in all probability the energy which created our universe wasn't random but it IS irrelevant.

You see, some think that our universe is not where it all ends, that might seem stupid, but lets also remember at one point it would have sounded stupid suggesting the Sun didn't infact, orbit the earth and that you don't drop off the end of the Horizon. Outside these universes our minds could not possibly fathom what it would be like, in other universes dimensions, time, matter EVERYTHING would not exist (in most) and would be completely different. Unfortunatly because our minds are soo tuned to certain stereotypes we can't imagine what it would be like (we can't even imagine where a fourth dimension would go).

Anyways, I digress, in these universes nothing would have a resemblance to ours, in fact, anything outside our universe is disregarded because the laws of physics would be so different or non-existant it's assumed they wouldn't effect us (and couldn't), when our universe was created is the official starting point for history (obviously not recorded) and time, we ignore all before, but what if somthing outside our universe caused it to start? Just like planets are constantly created, universes may be too. And therefore, over an infinite amount of time, and an infinite amount of space where universes are being made... well we're just back to the dice again aren't we? It would happen in the end.

Remember my world being flat example (which I know isn't _really_ what we thought) and the sun orbiting the earth example if you think that sounds farfetched because the theory behind it is pretty plausable (with evidence leading up to the big bang theory only, of course). It's hard to understand and I only even get the general gist of the theory, but it's much more "open-minded" than the theory of God and makes more sense, ironic as Atheists are often accused of being close-minded.

------------

For your statement about people knocking on my door. No. I will not respect them. If they want to go and believe in God, then that's they're own choice. But imposing their beliefs on me is just not on and rather disrespectfull to me and my views. If God is truely as awesome and powerful as Thiests believe, let him send a flood to kill us all or strike me down where I stand, instead of relying on some self indulged* "do gooders" perhaps he should believe that due to how much "sense" it makes that we will just believe him anyway.

*I say self-indulged because that's all religion is now-a-days, of course there is the occasional person who just wants to help, but for the most parts its to save your own ass from hell and live in eternal luxury in heaven, which is a pretty selfish, underlying motive if you ask me. What happened to a rich person not being able to get into heaven? What happened to what Jesus said about giving your money away and if someone asks for somthing you should give it to them without asking why they need it? I don't see that happening very often.

[MrSneaky08]

Here is a good book regarding Christianity. BTW i am Protestant.

http://www.josh.org/site/apps/ka/ec/product.asp?c=ddKDIMNtEqG&b=4366337&en=7pKHIOOmG3KELNOoFaKMI2MAIfIOIQNwElIWI6PMF&ProductID=604549

[Snakebit.]

Imho God is a big egoist . Like a little baby if you believe in the Bible and Heaven and Hell concept . So if you do something that god doesn't approve of you go straight to hell . Its either his way or no way at all . Not to mention all of the atheists and blasphemers go strait to hell.
And please don't give me that good only stands for good . There are a lot of paragraphs in the bible that say REALLY BAD STUFF . Someone quoted them back on the 13th page i think(some of them) . Like that you could sell your daughter into slavery and beat her up if she disobeyed you.

If you believe the bible , god also should be put on trile for genocide . The great flood killed a lot of people which is not what a God should do . Isn't it even worse than Muslims god (From a point of view ) .
Christian god just butchered everybody who didn't believe in him and Muslim  god kindly says 'I will kill you if you don't believe in me '. At the least Muslim god gives you a chance to survive .

The concept of 'god' judging you after you die is also egoistic . For example if you have lived in times of reformation , wouldn't that mean that all 'reformators of the church' would be judged evil and be sent to hell ? Which path of Christianity does god follow ? Catholic ? Protestant ? Orthodox ? Some stupid other path ? If he follows 1 of those than wouldn't that make other 2 paths 'blasphemy' and 'evil' ? Well at least during the old times because now God is for everybody . He happily adapted to current morals .

A lot of people like to say that 'god' stands for World Peace but does he ? He butchered a lot of people in Egypt. Killed a lot of Jews . Flooded the world and killed a lot of other people in general . Made a lot of disasters which probably ruined the life of many people(Consult page 13(Coincidence i guess) for more information ) . AND NOW PEOPLE STILL SAY HE IS FOR WORLD PEACE AFTER THAT ?


P.s By the way . I don't believe in god and Christianity but i DO support the Church thought . The Church did a lot of bad things in the past but now it transformed into something else . They try to help people now instead of killing them . Like 'God is for world peace ' and a lot of charity . Humanitarian support , etc etc etc . But the only bad thing is that they 'twist' the words of 'god' or what is written in the bible to serve their needs . They try to help people with that but i think it is still unacceptable .
They might be helping people now , but what will happen in the future nobody knows ? They might start using religion to kill people in the future ?

[Roberto1223]

i agree with tindenburg.


many practices/ideals in religions are implemented by random unknown dudes who are just looking for a personal benifit. accumulate all of those crappy rules and practices and you have one big squetchy self-contradicting religion.

theres a video on youtube of two guys called "penn and teller: the bible is bullshit" you should check that out.

**those guys obviously dont cover everything on the topic, because its just a short show. if they did cover every topic, itd be a video as long as this thread.**

but u guys should watch it.

[Roberto1223]

also watch "George Carlin - Religion is bullshit." in youtube. (comedy)

[Snakebit.]

also watch "George Carlin - Religion is bullshit." in youtube. (comedy)

Watching movies is the worst way to form your opinion. Think for yourself a bit . If you watch a movie in a way it pushes its own opinion on you.

[Ion.67]

The bible is pro choice. BTW... Just letting you know.

[Farley4Fan]

Imho God is a big egoist . Like a little baby if you believe in the Bible and Heaven and Hell concept . So if you do something that god doesn't approve of you go straight to hell . Its either his way or no way at all . Not to mention all of the atheists and blasphemers go strait to hell.
And please don't give me that good only stands for good . There are a lot of paragraphs in the bible that say REALLY BAD STUFF . Someone quoted them back on the 13th page i think(some of them) . Like that you could sell your daughter into slavery and beat her up if she disobeyed you.

If you believe the bible , god also should be put on trile for genocide . The great flood killed a lot of people which is not what a God should do . Isn't it even worse than Muslims god (From a point of view ) .
Christian god just butchered everybody who didn't believe in him and Muslim  god kindly says 'I will kill you if you don't believe in me '. At the least Muslim god gives you a chance to survive .

The concept of 'god' judging you after you die is also egoistic . For example if you have lived in times of reformation , wouldn't that mean that all 'reformators of the church' would be judged evil and be sent to hell ? Which path of Christianity does god follow ? Catholic ? Protestant ? Orthodox ? Some stupid other path ? If he follows 1 of those than wouldn't that make other 2 paths 'blasphemy' and 'evil' ? Well at least during the old times because now God is for everybody . He happily adapted to current morals .

A lot of people like to say that 'god' stands for World Peace but does he ? He butchered a lot of people in Egypt. Killed a lot of Jews . Flooded the world and killed a lot of other people in general . Made a lot of disasters which probably ruined the life of many people(Consult page 13(Coincidence i guess) for more information ) . AND NOW PEOPLE STILL SAY HE IS FOR WORLD PEACE AFTER THAT ?


P.s By the way . I don't believe in god and Christianity but i DO support the Church thought . The Church did a lot of bad things in the past but now it transformed into something else . They try to help people now instead of killing them . Like 'God is for world peace ' and a lot of charity . Humanitarian support , etc etc etc . But the only bad thing is that they 'twist' the words of 'god' or what is written in the bible to serve their needs . They try to help people with that but i think it is still unacceptable .
They might be helping people now , but what will happen in the future nobody knows ? They might start using religion to kill people in the future ?

Not true.  We don't know exactly how God makes the decision.  For example, I'm not particularly convinced that just because you aren't sure if you believe in God or not you go straight to hell (if that person was a good, morally driven person).  God has compassion and can forgive.  Remember the whole Jesus thing?  Yeah, he wants to forgive you.  He needs your help as well though.

[AgentX_003]

Imho God is a big egoist . Like a little baby if you believe in the Bible and Heaven and Hell concept . So if you do something that god doesn't approve of you go straight to hell . Its either his way or no way at all . Not to mention all of the atheists and blasphemers go strait to hell.
And please don't give me that good only stands for good . There are a lot of paragraphs in the bible that say REALLY BAD STUFF . Someone quoted them back on the 13th page i think(some of them) . Like that you could sell your daughter into slavery and beat her up if she disobeyed you.

If you believe the bible , god also should be put on trile for genocide . The great flood killed a lot of people which is not what a God should do . Isn't it even worse than Muslims god (From a point of view ) .
Christian god just butchered everybody who didn't believe in him and Muslim  god kindly says 'I will kill you if you don't believe in me '. At the least Muslim god gives you a chance to survive .

The concept of 'god' judging you after you die is also egoistic . For example if you have lived in times of reformation , wouldn't that mean that all 'reformators of the church' would be judged evil and be sent to hell ? Which path of Christianity does god follow ? Catholic ? Protestant ? Orthodox ? Some stupid other path ? If he follows 1 of those than wouldn't that make other 2 paths 'blasphemy' and 'evil' ? Well at least during the old times because now God is for everybody . He happily adapted to current morals .

A lot of people like to say that 'god' stands for World Peace but does he ? He butchered a lot of people in Egypt. Killed a lot of Jews . Flooded the world and killed a lot of other people in general . Made a lot of disasters which probably ruined the life of many people(Consult page 13(Coincidence i guess) for more information ) . AND NOW PEOPLE STILL SAY HE IS FOR WORLD PEACE AFTER THAT ?


P.s By the way . I don't believe in god and Christianity but i DO support the Church thought . The Church did a lot of bad things in the past but now it transformed into something else . They try to help people now instead of killing them . Like 'God is for world peace ' and a lot of charity . Humanitarian support , etc etc etc . But the only bad thing is that they 'twist' the words of 'god' or what is written in the bible to serve their needs . They try to help people with that but i think it is still unacceptable .
They might be helping people now , but what will happen in the future nobody knows ? They might start using religion to kill people in the future ?

Not true.  We don't know exactly how God makes the decision.  For example, I'm not particularly convinced that just because you aren't sure if you believe in God or not you go straight to hell (if that person was a good, morally driven person).  God has compassion and can forgive.  Remember the whole Jesus thing?  Yeah, he wants to forgive you.  He needs your help as well though.

Say your prayers for the tournament >:D

[Snakebit.]

Imho God is a big egoist . Like a little baby if you believe in the Bible and Heaven and Hell concept . So if you do something that god doesn't approve of you go straight to hell . Its either his way or no way at all . Not to mention all of the atheists and blasphemers go strait to hell.
And please don't give me that good only stands for good . There are a lot of paragraphs in the bible that say REALLY BAD STUFF . Someone quoted them back on the 13th page i think(some of them) . Like that you could sell your daughter into slavery and beat her up if she disobeyed you.

If you believe the bible , god also should be put on trile for genocide . The great flood killed a lot of people which is not what a God should do . Isn't it even worse than Muslims god (From a point of view ) .
Christian god just butchered everybody who didn't believe in him and Muslim  god kindly says 'I will kill you if you don't believe in me '. At the least Muslim god gives you a chance to survive .

The concept of 'god' judging you after you die is also egoistic . For example if you have lived in times of reformation , wouldn't that mean that all 'reformators of the church' would be judged evil and be sent to hell ? Which path of Christianity does god follow ? Catholic ? Protestant ? Orthodox ? Some stupid other path ? If he follows 1 of those than wouldn't that make other 2 paths 'blasphemy' and 'evil' ? Well at least during the old times because now God is for everybody . He happily adapted to current morals .

A lot of people like to say that 'god' stands for World Peace but does he ? He butchered a lot of people in Egypt. Killed a lot of Jews . Flooded the world and killed a lot of other people in general . Made a lot of disasters which probably ruined the life of many people(Consult page 13(Coincidence i guess) for more information ) . AND NOW PEOPLE STILL SAY HE IS FOR WORLD PEACE AFTER THAT ?


P.s By the way . I don't believe in god and Christianity but i DO support the Church thought . The Church did a lot of bad things in the past but now it transformed into something else . They try to help people now instead of killing them . Like 'God is for world peace ' and a lot of charity . Humanitarian support , etc etc etc . But the only bad thing is that they 'twist' the words of 'god' or what is written in the bible to serve their needs . They try to help people with that but i think it is still unacceptable .
They might be helping people now , but what will happen in the future nobody knows ? They might start using religion to kill people in the future ?

Not true.  We don't know exactly how God makes the decision.  For example, I'm not particularly convinced that just because you aren't sure if you believe in God or not you go straight to hell (if that person was a good, morally driven person).  God has compassion and can forgive.  Remember the whole Jesus thing?  Yeah, he wants to forgive you.  He needs your help as well though.

The bible is a bit strange on this question . It doesn't give a correct answer but there are different chapters that suggest so but there are also very contradictory which makes it hard to understand.
I believe if God exists , atheist will probably go to hell .

'The wicked will be burned up like straw and become dust and ashes under the feet of the righteous'
(The beginning of Malachi ch 4)

The Bible says that doing good isn't the criterion for getting to heaven. Perhaps anyone who desires and strives for absolute purity could make it. But the biblical criterion is recognising that, perhaps despite the fact that we may think we've lived good lives, we're still sinners in need of a savior, and so we should accept that Jesus Christ allowed himself to be killed on a cross so he could take the punishment for our sins, and we should turn away from everything we know to be wrongdoing.

Some will find it very encouraging that the Bible teaches that getting to heaven doesn't just depend on how good we've been. If the criterion for getting to heaven was being good, then people who made a sincere commitment to Christ and to live as ethically as possible in obedience to him, which is part of the deal, and died soon afterwards, after having lived immoral lives, would find themselves going to hell despite their latter commitment to follow him and turn away from their sins, because the number of years they had spent sinning would far exceed the amount of time they later spent doing good. Or if they'd done one thing that was very bad but then spent years regretting it, it might still outweigh all the good they'd done and be enough to get them sent to hell, particularly since no one can be entirely good and everyone does things that aren't good throughout their lives. But the Bible says the love of Jesus extends to people who've spent years doing evil things, if they'll only sincerely accept him and turn away from them.

However, the Bible does say that there will be a time when it will be too late. In several places it says that on Judgment Day, people will be judged according to their actions, and those who have done good deeds will go to heaven, while people who have rejected Christ and done evil will go to hell.

It also says that people who have relied on their own efforts to get to heaven and yet have rejected and scorned Christ, as the Pharisees did, will not get there. And it warns people who think they can rely on their own goodness to get to heaven while not admitting how sinful they really are, as many Pharisees of Jesus' time did, that in fact they are not pleasing God.

Jesus said that when he returns and people are judged, people will be divided into those who have done good and those who haven't. The good will go to be with him and the rest will go off into punishment.(Matthew Ch 25)

The problem is that it doesn't say . What if we admitted our sins (Its not like most people nowadays don't understand that they do bad things also alongside good thing ) and do good but still don't believe in Christ . What will happen ? It doesn't give a clear answer .

P.s There is some information in the bible that say that Atheists might still go to heaven but still . It also depends a lot on heaven/hell concept.

[Roberto1223]

also watch "George Carlin - Religion is bullshit." in youtube. (comedy)

Watching movies is the worst way to form your opinion. Think for yourself a bit . If you watch a movie in a way it pushes its own opinion on you.

its not a movie its just stand up comedy on youtube.
but ok, u dont have to watch it if u think its gonna start controling your mind. xD

[Farley4Fan]

That's why I'm not totally convinced.  My best guess is that it depends on the person.  You don't reject Christ's teachings, do you?  I mean, come on.  There are people that don't believe in JESUS, but there aren't many people that wouldn't agree with what he taught.  

It seems unclear because God's ultimate judgment isn't black and white.  It's not

Believe in God-Heaven
Don't Believe in God-hell

It's not black and white and multiple things would factor into his decision of where your soul will spend eternity.  How well have you lived your life?  How much do you appreciate life?  Do you try to be a good person just for the sake of doing good things?  Etc...

But then again believing in his one and only son/messenger probably is a big deal.  Jesus DID exist, and that is pretty widely accepted.  So therefore it shouldn't be so hard to believe he existed.  Believing in Jesus obviously isn't just believing in his physical being though.  There's more.  Believing in that other part of Jesus is important in God's decision I would say.  

I'm just a mere human and this is just my mere guess, so take it for what it's worth.

Oh and Roberto, watching things like that will cement it into your brain.  If you watch that, then watch the various Athiesm is Bullshit videos out there.  As I've said countless times, get a good balance - THEN come up with an opinion.  I can't stand it when people have an opinion beforehand, then watch ONLY things to back up their opinion.  Narrowmindedness at its finest.