i am an atheist

[Tidenburg]

Do you think there are laws undiscovered in this universe? Do you think these other universes have yet to discover our laws? Do you think other universes are beyond us with more complex laws?

Nothing from another universe could pass into ours unless they had the EXACT same laws as us. Q2: Irrelevant, other universes could never cross into ours because they'd be built up of completely different shit to us. And when I say built up they may not even be that, as i've said before you can't even imagine it because the first thing you imagine will probably consist of either matter or other stereotypes your mind is bound to from living in our universe soo long.

1&3: Err, impossible for me too say as there are soo many things in this universe we have not discovered, also 'complex' is pretty subjective to the person who's using it. Also as I said it's irrelevant because we could never understand/find out what the other rules of other universes consist of.


This leads to the awesome questions of "what happens when a universe expands into another?", "do universes expand into each other", "are all universes expanding" and "what is at the edge of our universe."

[Roberto1223]

FFS, let this topic rest already. It's going nowhere and never will be somewhere, it's like dicussions about wheter abortion is right or not, it depends on the people and their way of thinking.

Let everyone believe what he wants to and life your live.

END

That's the point of this section of the forum, to talk about stuff. If you can't handle it, simply walk away. This has been a good discussionso far with many viewpoints. I say, keep it coming.

i agree with westfall, this is good for when we get bored or whatever :P.

[Roberto1223]

Our planet will melt due to global warming before we find anything.

he didnt mean melt literally. omg guys...


(to agent and westfall)

[Tidenburg]

Most scientists don't look at the world and see how it couldn't of happened by chance. Because they are educated in other theories most realise its completely within reason to expect our universe to be created as it is. What you said about them is complete 100% bullshit because most physicists are completely against the idea of God, infact, most their theories go DIRECTLY AGAINST what you believe in.

Religion is a belief built on the fact that pre 0BC humans looked into the sky and wondered. They wanted to know how things work, why we're here and how we came into existence, stories myths and explanations were drawn up based off no scientific fact. Since then it has been abused to control citizens like flocks of sheep, "god told me to bomb whereever" and the thing is, even in our educated day in age, people like you still buy it. The bible and beliefs you follow are soo primitive, and have been changed so much, that if the prophets did know the rules god gave us, they wouldn't be anything like the ones you know now. So you're pretty much going to hell either way.

We live in a rational world full of irrational people.

[Roberto1223]

yay for happy ending for the atheist side :P

we win :P lol jk but not really.

[Westfall]

Religion is a belief built on the fact that pre 0BC humans looked into the sky and wondered. They wanted to know how things work, why we're here and how we came into existence, stories myths and explanations were drawn up based off no scientific fact.

The only science they had was in the sky...aka the stars, which made up many of the myths we see today. Religion is a power hungry sect, but still does not drop off the ideas of an ultimate start. What's next? What is time? What does magnetism have to do with it? What is dark matter and why can't we see it even though it takes up more than matter?

This leads to the awesome questions of "what happens when a universe expands into another?", "do universes expand into each other", "are all universes expanding" and "what is at the edge of our universe."

How do we know there are other universes? We know there are different galaxies and solar systems. We can't make it to the edge of our universe. What's at the edge you ask? Darkness, until the light can hit it. Light is still traveling and will continue to until random photon time, which we won't experience as long as we are here. Again though, is it one universe? We can see galaxies, but not universes. In fact, you will never see that word plural. Its universe, because different laws can exist in our universe in different areas given the spread of space.

Sorry it took me a while to comment, getting back into the college scene. Thoughts?

yay for happy ending for the atheist side :P

we win :P lol jk but not really.

I'm glad you started the conversation again.

[Kubanator]

How do we know there are other universes? We know there are different galaxies and solar systems. We can't make it to the edge of our universe. What's at the edge you ask? Darkness, until the light can hit it. Light is still traveling and will continue to until random photon time, which we won't experience as long as we are here. Again though, is it one universe? We can see galaxies, but not universes. In fact, you will never see that word plural. Its universe, because different laws can exist in our universe in different areas given the spread of space.

There is no edge. The extreme gravity of the entire universe bends space time so it forms a sphere. As for different universes, there's no way to access them, and they don't affect our world in any way, so they are irrelevant.

As for God, here's my problem with him. He is all-seeing, all-knowing and all-powerful. Meaning that he knows past, present, and future. If that is true then for him, it's irrelevant to have you live because he knows if you will be good or evil. Making our whole existence irrelevant. And then there's the argument, why doesn't he save starving African kids? They were just born, surely they committed no sin.

[Farley4Fan]

How do you know that God doesn't save starving African kids?  Or any child killed before his/her first step?  The funny thing is that even those that don't impact our world directly still have a purpose.  Does God not "save" these people in our world to show an example of how frail and bad life can actually be?  To spread appreciation throughout the people who do have running water and food on their plate?  I think so. 

Those people that don't get to experience life only get to experience an afterlife sooner.  God has sympathy, and those that are seemingly robbed of a chance I think are rewarded greatly in heaven.

Speaking of an afterlife, I think it's much different than how we think of it as.  Sure, there are Pearly Gates, but what's beyond that?  Clouds?  I think not.  Spirits floating around?  Who knows for sure?  I think of hell as an eternal blackness, worse than getting burned by flames 24/7.  Heaven is much more amazing than we can imagine, and hell is worse than imaginable.

So I hear the Big Bang theory is basically out the window.  Now it's the theory of expansion, right?  Still doesn't answer how this universe started expanding, does it?  Or why.  Or how there was anything to expand to begin with.  There's that halting problem.

Here's what I think.  To begin, there was nothing.  Nothing at all.  Over infinite periods of time, a consciousness formed in this nothingness.  Slowly but surely, a designer came from nothingness.  He's the one exception to the rule that something can't come from nothing because that rule did not exist yet, there was no universe.  This designer, what we call God, created the laws of physics, created time, created the chemistry of life so that evolution on our planet would result in human beings, designed the eventual "expansion", and initiated the creation of our universe with everything perfectly in place to affect our lives.  God is omniscient because he designed the creation of the universe, and so knows what will affect what at what time.

I'm more than likely completely wrong but it's how I see that a God came from nothing.  Maybe God always was like the Bible says?  But then again, if time doesn't exist, and eventually God came to be in a timeless nothingness, does that mean he always was?  Totally boggling.  I'm going to bed lol...

[Westfall]

How do we know there are other universes? We know there are different galaxies and solar systems. We can't make it to the edge of our universe. What's at the edge you ask? Darkness, until the light can hit it. Light is still traveling and will continue to until random photon time, which we won't experience as long as we are here. Again though, is it one universe? We can see galaxies, but not universes. In fact, you will never see that word plural. Its universe, because different laws can exist in our universe in different areas given the spread of space.

There is no edge. The extreme gravity of the entire universe bends space time so it forms a sphere. As for different universes, there's no way to access them, and they don't affect our world in any way, so they are irrelevant.

As for God, here's my problem with him. He is all-seeing, all-knowing and all-powerful. Meaning that he knows past, present, and future. If that is true then for him, it's irrelevant to have you live because he knows if you will be good or evil. Making our whole existence irrelevant. And then there's the argument, why doesn't he save starving African kids? They were just born, surely they committed no sin.

Can I get an article for this sphere theory? I think Black Holes have plenty to do with beginnings and endings.

So God should dub light as "good" and dark as "evil". This brings up ideas surrounding matter and dark-matter.

[Farley4Fan]

About the sphere theory, if it were an ever-expanding sphere, wouldn't it have edges if it had a shape?  If there are no edges, there is no shape.

[frvge]

If there are no edges, there is no shape.

Why? Planes are square, but also infinite.

[Tidenburg]

I think Black Holes have plenty to do with beginnings and endings.

Black holes are hardly the thing to end all. They emit energy in the form of heat and blast matter which would obliterate you in an instant from the center up and downward.

--
Also, I feel I should mention that in college last week I met this couple who were religious (guy & girl) and they completely believed that gravity, DNA and the fact that the earth is rounded are lies. Incredible.

[Farley4Fan]

If there are no edges, there is no shape.

Why? Planes are square, but also infinite.

Our idea of a plane is square.  But hell, if a plane went on and on forever, with no edges in sight, it could end up being a friggin trapezoid or octagon until edges were formed.  An ever expanding plane with no clear edges could be any shape eventually.  Speaking hypothetically of course. 

What I am saying is that there is really no way we can tell which shape our universe is or will become (sphere, square, whatever) since it is "ever-expanding" and there are no edges.

[Tidenburg]

On the line X = 2 the gradient is infinite, so we know infinite exists. Just because your mind cannot handle the concept (our minds are held back with stereotypes we pick up from living in our universe soo long) it doesn't mean it cannot be a single infinite plane.

[Westfall]

I think Black Holes have plenty to do with beginnings and endings.

Black holes are hardly the thing to end all. They emit energy in the form of heat and blast matter which would obliterate you in an instant from the center up and downward.

lol...you need to check out a little more about black holes. They are infinitely sucking shit into them and breaking down the matter these things are made of. They do not give off energy due to their constant taking in of energy.

HOWEVER, if they were to ever EMIT energy...then they would emit energy in such a way to cause a MASSIVE explosion. Imagine a black hole releasing as opposed to sucking. whoa.

Black Holes are constantly destroying matter that comes near it. In fact, black holes are one of the main causes behind the theory that everything is holographic.

Black Holes have plenty to do with beginnings and endings...what if a black hole could place you...lets say, outside of the box?????