i am an atheist

Started by Roberto1223, December 15, 2008, 11:08:30 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Tidenburg

Quote from: Farley4Fan on August 01, 2010, 02:10:43 AM
You seem to be an example of someone who merely sees with his eyes.  Your eyes just don't happen to show you that there is plenty of evidence of God.  The evidence doesn't take you the same way it takes me.  Don't act like I'm ignorant of the evidence.

And how was I saying you should obide by my beliefs?  I was merely asking if you think humans would find other reasons to fight each other.  To me it seems obvious they would, and yet people still blame religion for the cause of deaths of many people.  From my perspective it's not religion's fault, it's the people's fault and they used religion to justify their actions - therefore giving religion a bad rap.
Sounds like your failing to sound deep? I dunno. But in case you didn't know, it's not evidence unless it can be observed/tested. So yes, seeing with eyes does sound good. Logically God doesn't make sense either, and I'm pretty sure my eyes aren't involved there.

I'm nihilistic (the proper, non-depressing kind) and philosophical so don't be so presumptuous and condescending as though believing in stuff without evidence gives you some kind of clairvoyance. I love thinking about shit larger than I can comprehend, it's what makes the universe so amazing, how we're so shit tiny and meaningless and yet we create our own meaning within societies, I just don't run my life by stuff like this.

Also, I don't care if religion is just one thing we vent our violence through, it's a well-used excuse. If it was something else instead, I'd just be targeting that as well. Are you saying we should just accept we're violent and not try to move on? All the religious wars were perfectly fine because they, or similar, would have happened anyway? Yeah, I'm not buying it.

Farley4Fan

Quote from: Tidenburg on August 01, 2010, 04:43:31 AM
Quote from: Farley4Fan on August 01, 2010, 02:10:43 AM
You seem to be an example of someone who merely sees with his eyes.  Your eyes just don't happen to show you that there is plenty of evidence of God.  The evidence doesn't take you the same way it takes me.  Don't act like I'm ignorant of the evidence.

And how was I saying you should obide by my beliefs?  I was merely asking if you think humans would find other reasons to fight each other.  To me it seems obvious they would, and yet people still blame religion for the cause of deaths of many people.  From my perspective it's not religion's fault, it's the people's fault and they used religion to justify their actions - therefore giving religion a bad rap.
Sounds like your failing to sound deep? I dunno. But in case you didn't know, it's not evidence unless it can be observed/tested. So yes, seeing with eyes does sound good. Logically God doesn't make sense either, and I'm pretty sure my eyes aren't involved there.

I'm nihilistic (the proper, non-depressing kind) and philosophical so don't be so presumptuous and condescending as though believing in stuff without evidence gives you some kind of clairvoyance. I love thinking about shit larger than I can comprehend, it's what makes the universe so amazing, how we're so shit tiny and meaningless and yet we create our own meaning within societies, I just don't run my life by stuff like this.

I said I see something different when I see the evidence than you do.  I don't know if that sounds clairvoyant to me. 

Also, I don't care if religion is just one thing we vent our violence through, it's a well-used excuse. If it was something else instead, I'd just be targeting that as well. Are you saying we should just accept we're violent and not try to move on? All the religious wars were perfectly fine because they, or similar, would have happened anyway? Yeah, I'm not buying it.

I'm not saying that we should accept we're violent.  You just need to understand this.  It's almost futile to try to suppress our bloodthirst urges unless we medicate/genetically engineer every human in the next generation to make us domestic animals. 

It's useless to target the things we use as our excuses for war for 2 reason:  It's futile to do that, and even it wasn't futile it would would have no effect on the amount of wars our world has.  Eliminate religion, eliminate oil, eliminate boundaries between countries, eliminate all the things we use as excuses and...holy shit you have a collapse in civilization.  Seems stupid to go down the list and take out each one if the list is as long as well... infinity?

People were going to war before religion, they still are going to war, and they will go to war after religion.  The South park atheism episode comes to mind actually lmao

You don't think that if Hitler were an atheist there would have never been a WW2 do you?

Jazz_117

Everything must have an opposite.

Up\down
Light\Dark
War\Peace

More that just being part of human nature, war is and will always be part of the universal balance.

Tidenburg

QuotePeople were going to war before religion, they still are going to war, and they will go to war after religion.  The South park atheism episode comes to mind actually lmao
You have no reason to think this. When humans didn't have religion, I highly doubt there was war, we wouldn't have been advanced enough to organise ourselves. As long as we have had written history, there's been religion, so you have no proof here at all.

That said, we WOULD fight over territory. That's just because humans are pretty much fucked anyway, when some places start becoming uninhabitable and shit starts getting scarce, obviously we're gonna fight. That's just survival though, not like all the past wars we've had. There would have been war, but no where near as much. Are you even aware how many wars were caused by religion at their roots?
Quote
You don't think that if Hitler were an atheist there would have never been a WW2 do you?
I think if religion didn't exist then a large portion of people wouldn't have been exterminated during that war. Religion divides people like that and if religion didn't exist he would certainly NOT have just randomly wiped out another group of people, and probably wouldn't have experimented on homo's as well because society would have advanced and accepted people faster if religion didn't exist.

Quote from: Jazz_117 on August 01, 2010, 02:30:23 PM
Everything must have an opposite.

Up\down
Light\Dark
War\Peace

More that just being part of human nature, war is and will always be part of the universal balance.
>>implying humans have any affect on the universe.

Yeah, war is a concept the living made, don't try and make out the universe has anything to do with something we made up. It doesn't. If all life died, the universe would be plenty fine without all the wars. And that "everything must have an opposite" is shit philosophy created by humans too.

Tidenburg

#589
The point I want you to actually respond to though (the war thing is getting tiresome):

My philosophy is that if there is a supreme creator of the universe, then he would not care about humans. We're soo small in comparison to the universe, it's silly to think the whole universe was made for us. If he DOES then I still think it's stupid to think he'd want us to worship him and that he'd care when we slept with people and who did it with, as long as I lived a generally good life and didn't negatively affect others, I'd be fine.

Then, that's assuming he actually made us an afterlife, I think he'd actually be quite pissed if he saw the way people limit their experiences in what could be their only life. Religion can be so restrictive, especially on stuff like sex, when really you should just have sex when you're ready and not make such a big deal out of it, enjoy life while you can. O_O Plus God created ALL the universe apparently, so why would he be so bound by HUMAN-created morals?

I live as though there is no God, I do what I enjoy and I want to get the most out of my life. No way in hell I'm risking doing shit all just for a potential next life. Besides, I live by what's acceptable to society but that's only coincidental. I mostly just make sure I'm not being especially detrimental to other people because they should get to enjoy their lives too.

If I get to heaven and God's like "oh you didn't obide by these specific rules", then fuck him. He's not worth of being called a God.

tldr: If there is a God AND an afterlife, then he's probably not like the one our religions imagine.

Spark Mandriller

Quote from: Tidenburg on August 01, 2010, 03:36:41 PM
>>implying humans have any affect on the universe.

fuck are you embarrassing

Jazz_117

#591
Jazz to Tidenburg

God can't have created the universe because he's in it.  That would be kinda like creating ones self.
The universe is the perfect definition of the word infinite: it does not have a middle, an edge, a beginning, or an end.  If you give it just one of these things then it must have all of them and if it does then it can not be.

Something else interesting, time is existence, so the opposite of time is pure nothingness.

War is not something created by humans.  Conflict is a part of any life.  Look at Africa: Lions, Deer .ect
Your immune system fighting a sickness.  It is all conflict.
The only difference between a lion and a man is they usually kill for different reasons, but they still kill.  Human intelligence, or the lack there of, causes group A to want to destroy\dominate group B.  Religion can (and often is) the course of this but if there was no such thing as religion men would find something else to kill himself over.

Maybe it's back to old good and evil.  Another pair of opposites that has and will always be.
Without evil you cannot have good.  There would be nothing to define right if there was no wrong, there simply must be both.

Life exists inside the universe so it must abide by the rules, take gravity and time for example, they effect everything, well conflict affects everything too, even rocks if you want to look at it that way.  Anyways, the point is that every living thing everywhere in the Universe will have conflict.  So yes, it IS a universal rule.
And if you think that humans are the only life in the universe then you're more naive then a virgin nun.

There is obviously someone out there, once upon a time, that created the human race, theoretically in his\their own image.  Otherwise we wouldn't be here.  Life didn't just happen, evolution is just another religion, albeit a crappy one.
Example: How did the first winged creature develop wings?
According to evolution, if a creatures has something on it\apart of it that doesn't help it then it's gotten rid of.
The first developments of limbs, wings, eyes, ears, fingers, tail .ect would have been completely useless and according to evolution the creature would loose these useless appendages.
In a round about way, evolution proves itself wrong.
This is of course only worth taking into consideration if it were at all possible for the chemical soup to ever accidentally create life anyway.
The only logical conclusion is that there is\was in fact a god\gods.

So you said that I thought humans have an effect on the universe.  Well no, quite the opposite actually.  The universe and time are like inseparable brothers (if you want to use an analogy) and time is essentially existence, and conflict is a part of life existing.

Also, look at a sunset or a beautiful woman (or man, whatever turns you on) and tell me that they're not perfectly designed pieces of art.

These are just my thoughts on the subject, no need to get bent out of shape over any of it, I'm not trying to tell you what to think.

Peace



Tidenburg

#592
Jazz, you clearly don't understand evolution or the development of the eyes and wings. It's not a religion you dolt, we have evidence and no supernatural leader.

In fact, I don't think you even properly understand most of the science you talk about. Good and evil are both perspectives, so saying that sounds like you're reading some kind of child's book for reference. Nothing is inherently wrong or right, only shit that humans deem wrong or right.

I never said anywhere humans are the only life so I don't know where you pulled that wonder out your ass from. That's a something normally reserved for religious people.

So, because you're so badly misinformed. Please go look up the evolution of the eye, EACH stage of its development has been found so far, each having their own use. Same for wings, which weren't used for flying just FYI until quite a bit later in development.

You have no proof of a creator. Evolution is accepted even by the Vatican. If we NEED a creator because we're so complex, then any creator of the universe will be even MORE complex than us so therefore he also requires something even more complex to create him. It's completely recursive.

Please don't post any further if you're going to debate evolution though, I prefer religion debate in general. Most people who argue against evolution fail to ignore it's almost universally accepted amongst scientists and are awfully misinformed, just as you've shown.

Quote from: B-3A Misty Lady on August 01, 2010, 04:30:07 PM
Quote from: Tidenburg on August 01, 2010, 03:36:41 PM
>>implying humans have any affect on the universe.

fuck are you embarrassing
You're a retard if you think the universe has any kind of bias to make war happen. It just exists. It's so big that we have no affect on it. We barely even affect our planet (the worst we'll do is make in uninhabitable), let alone the whole universe. Life makes war, and also I don't count a conflict as a war. They're different things. Conflict is inevitable, war isn't.

Jazz_117

#593
Evolutionists, Baptists, your all the same, you all think that you're right.  And I'm not saying to listen to me, I'm 'suggesting' that you turn your brain on and think for yourself.

Good and evil is not a matter of prospective.
Thinking that it is a matter of prospective is the only thing that humans have thought up.
And this is so they can do whatever they please without having to account for it.
Think of your conscience.  Everyone is programed with the basics of right and wrong from birth, we can just choose to ignore this and do what we want because we have a free will, or it may be because of how we were brought up.  But look at history, many times men have changed their ways because they knew what they were doing was wrong.

You believe in evolution and then call me misinformed, LMAO.  Charles Darwin decided not to publish his book because he knew that it was wrong.  There is much truth in the idea, but the way it is perceived is incorrect.
And you don't need a supreme creator for your beliefs to be classed as a religion.  All it takes is faith, and presto, you have a religion.  And it must take faith to believe evolution without any proof that the big bang even happened... and if there's a hole somewhere there's a whole somewhere else.

Also, check this out:  http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/02/090213161043.htm
...How dtf did that "just happen."


P.S. That Vatican are also led by a pedophile.   So what they condone doesn't mean shit to me.

Farley4Fan

I certainly believe evolution happens, and that it did happen, but I have trouble believing that it began on its own. 

QuotePlease don't post any further if you're going to debate evolution though, I prefer religion debate in general. Most people who argue against evolution fail to ignore it's almost universally accepted amongst scientists and are awfully misinformed, just as you've shown

Oh boy a concept universally accepted by scientists.  How many million times have we had that happen?  Studying evolution is like sliding down a slippery slide into a brick wall.  It made so much sense so fast and then, bang, it didn't. 

It's a feeling of mine that science is not all there is.

frvge

Evolution has nothing to do with the Big Bang. Adaption of life vs the beginning of life. The two are different concepts in science. Whereas in the Christian religion, the two concepts are merged to one, namely God creating everything and all of the versions of the species afterwards.
Quote from: savior2006SCDA has more bugs than a rain forest.
Quote
Treat your customers with respect you make more customers. Treat your customers like pirates, you make more pirates.

Farley4Fan

Well I was actually separating the two concepts.  I was saying that adaption of life makes 100% sense, but the beginning does not. 

Some of you say that all I'm doing is filling the unknown with God but I feel like I'm attempting to solve my own puzzle.  Trying to give credit where I believe it is due.

Jazz_117, Darwin actually waited to publish his ideas for a different reason.  At least from what I've read, he hesitated in fear of getting chastised/prosecuted for his unusual ideas.  He only published them because someone was about to publish a theory similar to his, and he wanted all of his rightful glory.  So now, he gets it.

Spark Mandriller

Quote from: Tidenburg on August 01, 2010, 05:57:18 PM
You're a retard if you think the universe has any kind of bias to make war happen.

you're a retard if you use months old /v/ memes here
and you just did so i guess that means you're a retard then

fuckin' embarrassing

Tidenburg

Quote from: B-3A Misty Lady on August 01, 2010, 11:22:54 PM
Quote from: Tidenburg on August 01, 2010, 05:57:18 PM
You're a retard if you think the universe has any kind of bias to make war happen.

you're a retard if you use months old /v/ memes here
and you just did so i guess that means you're a retard then

fuckin' embarrassing

Apart from the fact that it's not just limited to that board or even site any more. AND the fact you regularly see people do it in steampowered's and other forums.

Anywho, I thought you were actually responding to something than mattered, rather than getting your lil' panties hung up about fuck all.

Thread, continue.

Spark Mandriller

oh good. you're not a retard from /v/ who keeps spouting memes months after they stopped being interesting, you're just someone who saw other retards do it so now you want to be like them.

wait that's not good at all that's actually worse