i am an atheist

[CurdyMilk]

Also, why not the big bang? It sounds like the last bastion for religion really. The universe is too complex to have just spontaneously been created, right? But any being that created it would have to be more complex than the universe and therefore also requires a creator (from your previous logic). It's recursive.

The big bang is what I'm going with now but I'm not really versed on the subject, I just know it's what's agreed upon by scientists and I know that if they're wrong, they will admit it and change the theory. Unlike the other option I could choose, if scientists found out (somehow) that there was undoubtedly a God, they would accept the fact that the other side is right.

To paraphrase Bones (a show apparently only I watch), even if I cannot see the cause for an effect, I can take comfort in the fact that all around me I see evidence that for every effect there is a rational cause and explanation; So even if the cause is something I cannot see, everything I can all leads me to believe that it will be rational when we find it. Faith in the facts ;D

Well, here is my response- It is difficult for me to give an exact answer to this.  The best thing I can give you is a lengthy article written by a physicist Steven Ball, P.h.D.  Before you grow in skepticism, let me explain the article.  A "Christian" physicist takes the big bang theory along with modern science and compares it with the biblical account of creation.  Chapter 1 deals with the big bang controversy in general.  In chapter 2, he explains the growing support and evidence for the big bang theory due to modern scientific discoveries.  Chapter 3 deals with potential problems with the theory, and how they have been resolved.  The final chapter points out the biblical basis for the big bang and how they could possibly agree.  He is very balanced in his approach to the situation.  As far as I can tell, he believes in both.  I know it is a very long piece that you probably would not want to read entirely.  But if you have curiosity, I would highly recommend it.
http://www.phys.uwosh.edu/lattery/id/_docs/BigBang.pdf

[Tidenburg]

@Curdy, yeah. I get how they could co-incide.

My point being, once we know how it begun, it's kind of pointless to add something which we DON'T know how it was created (or whether it even exists) into the equation, God.

Sure, they might match up, but there is no science in the bible, there's a division of nearly two thousand years between modern science and the bible being written. Saying God did it would be fine, but there would be absolutely no evidence. I'd hope this would make religion become more of a personal thing, the debates would surely be cut down.

My point still is though, a being that created something like our universe would not be one who cares greatly about all the little rules some religions have. Even if he was proven to exist, my lifestyle would not change.

[frvge]

Can't disprove Big Bang or God creating the universe. Both options are viable. What comes after that is more interesting.

[Farley4Fan]

Can't disprove Big Bang or God creating the universe. Both options are viable. What comes after that is more interesting.

Lmao that sounded like Mordin from Mass effect 2.   ;D

[frvge]

I'm a brilliant scientist too. A bit less on the Spec-Ops tho :(

[Farley4Fan]

[CurdyMilk]

Sure, they might match up, but there is no science in the bible

http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/science.shtml

[Farley4Fan]

Some interesting points in that link Curdy.

Science has actually wound up proving many Biblical events.  Ironically, many scientific studies show that the Bible is surprisingly reliable as a record of historical events.  The more they prove these stories true, the more it makes sense.  There have been people described in the Bible that historians widely agreed to be non existent, and later found out to be real after all.

The most interesting study to me has to be the one of Sodom and Gomorrah.  The Bible described the destroyer of the city as "a pillar of fire".  It was recently proved to be a huge meteor that came crashing right into where the city supposedly was.  A meteor crashing into your city would probably look something like a pillar of fire, right?

Now I know that just because science has proved some of these stories to be true, or at least semi-true, it doesn't mean that they were on the ridiculously epic scale that the current Bible has ultimately described  them in.  It doesn't mean that everything described in the Bible is completely true either.  After countless translations and iterations there are bound to be many exaggerations or even possibly some errors found in the text.

But in the end everything I just said is unimportant because that's not what the Bible is about.  It's interesting to say the least but I don't think we should be picking apart the Bible word for word letter for letter because that would be missing the point.  The Bible isn't supposed to be a history book, despite the surprising accuracy.

[Zedblade]

There are plenty of inaccuracies and contradictions in the bible, an there are quite a few things proven to be wrong in the bible by science. Most of the things listed in that link Curdy posted can be interpreted to mean any number of things, in fact most of those things are basic observations anyone back then could come up with. Some historical events are even wrong, which you would think would be the easiest part to get right.

http://www.coppit.org/god/contradictions.php
http://davidgmcafee.wordpress.com/2010/02/10/minor-inaccuracies-and-contradictions-within-the-holy-bible/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSzQC1zKesU

If the bible was the true work of a true god, it would be written in a way that was impossible to be misinterpreted, it would get everything perfectly right in a clear language and wouldn't cause a division that spawns thousands of different sub-religions.

Just for fun:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rqUsC2KsiI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qmcOG-na4E&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDHJ4ztnldQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUj8hg5CoSw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkXOwBIRX7Y&feature=related

[Tidenburg]

@Zed, you seem to be missing the point. 10 billion prayers ignored and one apparently answered is all the proof a lot of people need. Sure SOME things may be wrong, BUT LOOK! THIS THING HERE WAS RIGHT! (If you look at it a certain way, wearing this certain thing on this day of the week)

[CurdyMilk]

The most interesting study to me has to be the one of Sodom and Gomorrah.  The Bible described the destroyer of the city as "a pillar of fire".  It was recently proved to be a huge meteor that came crashing right into where the city supposedly was.  A meteor crashing into your city would probably look something like a pillar of fire, right?

I saw that one on the science channel.  They also had one about the parting of the red sea.  Cool stuff.

There are plenty of inaccuracies and contradictions in the bible, an there are quite a few things proven to be wrong in the bible by science. Most of the things listed in that link Curdy posted can be interpreted to mean any number of things, in fact most of those things are basic observations anyone back then could come up with. Some historical events are even wrong, which you would think would be the easiest part to get right.

http://www.coppit.org/god/contradictions.php
http://davidgmcafee.wordpress.com/2010/02/10/minor-inaccuracies-and-contradictions-within-the-holy-bible/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSzQC1zKesU

If the bible was the true work of a true god, it would be written in a way that was impossible to be misinterpreted, it would get everything perfectly right in a clear language and wouldn't cause a division that spawns thousands of different sub-religions.

I appreciate this post.  I will have my response by the end of the day- I have to work and then go buy some more supplies for fixing the red ring of death first.  ;)  Check back later.

[Zedblade]

The most interesting study to me has to be the one of Sodom and Gomorrah.  The Bible described the destroyer of the city as "a pillar of fire".  It was recently proved to be a huge meteor that came crashing right into where the city supposedly was.  A meteor crashing into your city would probably look something like a pillar of fire, right?

I saw that one on the science channel.  They also had one about the parting of the red sea.  Cool stuff.

There are plenty of inaccuracies and contradictions in the bible, an there are quite a few things proven to be wrong in the bible by science. Most of the things listed in that link Curdy posted can be interpreted to mean any number of things, in fact most of those things are basic observations anyone back then could come up with. Some historical events are even wrong, which you would think would be the easiest part to get right.

http://www.coppit.org/god/contradictions.php
http://davidgmcafee.wordpress.com/2010/02/10/minor-inaccuracies-and-contradictions-within-the-holy-bible/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSzQC1zKesU

If the bible was the true work of a true god, it would be written in a way that was impossible to be misinterpreted, it would get everything perfectly right in a clear language and wouldn't cause a division that spawns thousands of different sub-religions.

I appreciate this post.  I will have my response by the end of the day- I have to work and then go buy some more supplies for fixing the red ring of death first.  ;)  Check back later.

Make sure you watch all of the videos. :D I'm curious of your reaction to them.

[Farley4Fan]

@Zed, you seem to be missing the point. 10 billion prayers ignored and one apparently answered is all the proof a lot of people need. Sure SOME things may be wrong, BUT LOOK! THIS THING HERE WAS RIGHT! (If you look at it a certain way, wearing this certain thing on this day of the week)

What is it with people getting hung up on the whole prayers thing?  It just seems to be a non point.

My point was that there is a lot of truth in the Bible.  Some people get too worked up over some innacuracies or interpretations that they disregard the book as a whole.  And that to me is a shame.

If God did create the Bible, I don't see why it would have to impossible to be misinterpreted.  Like I've been saying, if God made a science book and said here's all the facts I am God believe me because I just proved it to you, where's the FAITH in that exactly?  God would want more than people believing in him just because it's a proven fact and you'd be an idiot to believe that God did not exist.  He wants people to see him without their eyes, so to speak.

[CurdyMilk]

10 billion prayers ignored and one apparently answered

Just because they are not always a "yes" does not mean they aren't answered...

There are plenty of inaccuracies and contradictions in the bible.  Most of the things listed in that link Curdy posted can be interpreted to mean any number of things.  Some historical events are even wrong, which you would think would be the easiest part to get right.

I don't understand your logic here.  First off, you say that the things in my link can be interpreted to mean any number of things.  Then, you turn right back around and say the bible has clear contradictions.  I don't get it.  You can't try to use the same tool against something else and then use the opposite idea to support your own.

an there are quite a few things proven to be wrong in the bible by science

Such as?

http://www.coppit.org/god/contradictions.php

Internal Contradiction Responses:
 
1.http://www.carm.org/bible-difficulties/matthew-mark/why-are-there-different-genealogies-jesus-matthew-1-and-luke-3

2.Acts 1:18 describes what occurred after Judas hanged himself in Matthew 27:5. His body began to decay as it hung from the rope. Eventually, his corpse fell, and ââ,¬Å"burst asunderââ,¬Â when it hit the groundââ,¬â€he literally burst apart.

3.http://www.carm.org/bible-difficulties/joshua-esther/who-incited-david-count-fighting-men-israel-god-or-satan

4.This deals with the topic of capital punishment.  http://www.tektonics.org/af/cappun.html

5.http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/566

6.http://contenderministries.org/discrepancies/contradictions.php#17 click the link near the 5th bullet point from the bottom

7.finish the second quote (1 Corinthians 4:5)ââ,¬Â¦but not before the appointed time

8.Are there 250 officers, or 550, per 2 Chr. 8:10? A reasonable solution that is suggested by the fact that the totals of men coincide at 3850 is that the 550 "elite" foremen in 1 Kings 9:23 include the 250 "elite" foremen of 2 Chr 8:10. This is essentially the thesis advanced by Keil and Delitzsch.  OR There may have been a copying error at some point with regard to this text.  We do not affirm the infallibility of all manuscripts and copies of the biblical documents, but only of the originals.

http://davidgmcafee.wordpress.com/2010/02/10/minor-inaccuracies-and-contradictions-within-the-holy-bible/

1. Does God tempt man? http://www.wrestedscriptures.com/d02contradictions/james1v13genesis22v1.html
ââ,¬Â¦I could keep going if you would like, but you get the ideaââ,¬Â¦

You have to look at the entire context of verses rather than just poking out one line here and there.

I will look at the videos some other day...I need a break  :)

If God did create the Bible, I don't see why it would have to impossible to be misinterpreted.  Like I've been saying, if God made a science book and said here's all the facts I am God believe me because I just proved it to you, where's the FAITH in that exactly?  God would want more than people believing in him just because it's a proven fact and you'd be an idiot to believe that God did not exist.  He wants people to see him without their eyes, so to speak.

:)

[Zedblade]

@Zed, you seem to be missing the point. 10 billion prayers ignored and one apparently answered is all the proof a lot of people need. Sure SOME things may be wrong, BUT LOOK! THIS THING HERE WAS RIGHT! (If you look at it a certain way, wearing this certain thing on this day of the week)

What is it with people getting hung up on the whole prayers thing?  It just seems to be a non point.

How is the one and only way to talk to your god a non point? Prayer is one of the foundations of most religions, it's extremely important and should be discussed.

My point was that there is a lot of truth in the Bible.  Some people get too worked up over some innacuracies or interpretations that they disregard the book as a whole.  And that to me is a shame.

There are truths in the bible, I don't deny that, but there are just as much contradictions and inaccuracies. Not to mention the bible is a morally horrible book, consistently demanding the death of people for petty, illogical reasons and condoning things like slavery and the oppression of women. My question is why do you ignore the awful, repulsive things the bible says, the inaccuracies and contradictions, but latch onto the rest? You are doing the exact thing you are accusing others of doing, just the other way around.

If God did create the Bible, I don't see why it would have to impossible to be misinterpreted.  Like I've been saying, if God made a science book and said here's all the facts I am God believe me because I just proved it to you, where's the FAITH in that exactly?  God would want more than people believing in him just because it's a proven fact and you'd be an idiot to believe that God did not exist.  He wants people to see him without their eyes, so to speak.

The bible doesn't need to prove god exists, but you would think if god wanted the bible to be the one and only way to learn about him, to gain faith in him through the words he has written, he would plan out a way that would not allow men to pervert it and bring shame to his name.

There are several occasions in the bible where God as proven that he exists to hundreds of people, such as Jesus proving his resurrection. Why was it okay then, but not now to prove his existence? I've heard some people say god proving himself would remove free will. If god is real and the bible is literally correct, I'm sorry, we do not have free will. God's idea of free will is actually more like an ultimatum. Believe in me or spend eternity in hell.

Even if I knew without a doubt God existed, that doesn't necessarily mean I'll worship him by default. I've actually read the bible (unlike a lot of Christians, which is weird) and it' doesn't describe an all loving, forgiving and caring god. It describes and angry, unjust, egotistical tyrant who lies, murders people by the millions and sends people to infinite suffering and pain for a finite life of unbelieving.

Fuck that.