I want to share with everyone that I am 100% sure that Splinter Cell AND its multiplayer will never return to its original form. They will NOT go back to what made the game great.
I want you guys to look at this link http://web.archive.org/web/20101225212903/http://www.gamepro.com/article/features/214761/splinter-cell-conviction/
This article is about why Conviction was so different. It turns out that when they started conviction, they got a new Creative Director: Maxime Beland... This new Creative Director was the Director behind Rainbow Six(!!!), and had stuff to do with designing Assassin's Creed. Here's what he has to say about his "masterpiece".
"The core gameplay in stealth games shouldn't be slow; it shouldn't be about studying patrols for 10 minutes before making a move."
- Maxime Beland
This is the guy who calls the shots behind Splinter Cell now since Conviction...
"Instead of just doing another game in the same way as the previous titles, I proposed that we change the angle," he explains. "I wanted the stealth gameplay to be very different. Traditionally it's very slow, and requires you to study the patrol patterns of the bad guys. It's not permissive, and I wanted to change that. I wanted to take Sam and turn the whole stealth thing around. If he's supposed to be the best in the world, then he should be able to run without making a sound. Me? In real life I can't run silently, but Sam should be able to."
- Maxime Asshole
"Hanging onto and creeping along ledges in stealth games is the slowest and most utterly f**king boring mechanic you can possibly imagine in a video game."
- Who else than Maxime Beland
He obviously doesn't like anything that made Splinter Cell what it is, then WHY is he the Creative Director for it?!?!
This guy makes me really really really mad. >:(
You should check out Blacklist before judging it. He wanted to change things up for Conviction, and it was a good game, just nowhere near as good as the old games. Blacklist looks awesome so far, it doesn't matter what he said years ago.
I second VaNilla's comment. While I haven't kept my eye on Blacklist too much (I'd rather expect little and be pleasantly surprised, rather than vice versa) it does seems to be heading into "old but new" territory, whereas Conviction was just new.
Maxime Beland got a lot of flak, on places such as this forum, for the exact reasons that you stated Scanty Chunk, often being sited at the director behind Rainbow Six in turn as the reason why. While Conviction wasn't what hardcore fans hoped it would be, it again wasn't a terrible game by itself. It simply seemed like a separate game that they put Sam Fisher in to.
Perhaps it's a tough one to imagine in the aftermath of all of it, but pretend you saw Conviction without Sam Fisher. Imagine a Splinter Cell game that you were in control of a different spy (or merc), with different skills (such as Mark and Execute), with different views on the game world. I believe this would have made reactions much less of what you are saying up there. Most people seemed to be upset because their established character, with an established gameplay type had been "drastically" changed.
From a company perspective though, a big risk is taken when you gamble that fans will like the series even if the main character has changed. Imagine a Thief game where you don't play as Garret, a Metroid game without being Samus or a Zelda game without Link. Which are you more of a fan of? The Series or the Character?
Blacklist does seem to be heading in a "more right" direction, as far as fans are concerned. My biggest concern is that last I heard Michael Ironside wont be voicing Sam Fisher. It puts another variable in the situation I stated above when asking about series or character fandom. Does the voice actor really matter if the game is well made (which until otherwise stated, it could possibly be)? Will that stop your purchase?
Yeah, you guys have a point when it comes to not judging it yet. But from what I've seen from blacklist so far, it's not anything close to what I am wanting to play from a Splinter Cell game. Sure, Conviction was a good game then that's awesome. But the fact is, it doesn't satisfy what I want from a stealth game.
Quote from: Scanty Chunk on April 25, 2013, 12:30:43 PM
Yeah, you guys have a point when it comes to not judging it yet. But from what I've seen from blacklist so far, it's not anything close to what I am wanting to play from a Splinter Cell game. Sure, Conviction was a good game then that's awesome. But the fact is, it doesn't satisfy what I want from a stealth game.
did you even see this video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9El0-UZ5u0 ?
I think Blacklist looks way better than Conviction, when it comes to stealth.
Quote from: frvge on April 25, 2013, 10:29:49 PM
I think Blacklist looks way better than Conviction, when it comes to stealth.
It does. But the real question mark is left on Multiplayer so far.
Quote from: SheikTheGeek on April 26, 2013, 12:59:03 PM
Quote from: frvge on April 25, 2013, 10:29:49 PM
I think Blacklist looks way better than Conviction, when it comes to stealth.
It does. But the real question mark is left on Multiplayer so far.
They're revealing it this week or the next, so we'll know soon enough.
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg826%2F6510%2Fsplintercellblacklistpu.jpg&hash=2041393e3a388c33818e1b9d732089aec9d36de0)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Ca2CpaVTEKM
05/02/13.
We'll see.
Full pic:
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1144.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo490%2FSplinterCellBlacklist%2FSvM-1680x1050_zpsf27e66f9.jpg&hash=ae517f179ed75fd951e03169993c973fbf985db7)
The Spy have a Karambit and i'm curious about it, dunno if be happy or worried.
Quote from: RaDRoacH on April 29, 2013, 04:11:00 PM
The Spy have a Karambit and i'm curious about it, dunno if be happy or worried.
It's probably just their way of cutting out the tedium of having to grab before breaking necks. Maybe the mercs will be even more powerful, so powerful that the spies are forced to play more stealthily. What if they let you knife from any angle, and removed the elbow mechanic? It would make sense if they've made the mercs even more powerful. I actually think that would be pretty cool; it would make SvM even more stealth based than it already is. However, we can't say anything for sure until we see the reveal.
I'm curious what it'll be.
They just shouldn't do the same mistakes as Double Agent did and I am not talking about the gameplay. I am talking about the menue.
DA had:
1. No lobby, only automatic gamefinding
2. Only 1 gamemode
3. No customizable game options
4. No item selection for merc aside from granades and drones (for spy:only 1 out of 4 items pickable)
Hmm... I wrote it off after I saw Sam using a predator drone to call in missile strikes. Maybe I was wrong 0_o
Quote from: Farley4Fan on April 30, 2013, 02:41:27 AM
Hmm... I wrote it off after I saw Sam using a predator drone to call in missile strikes. Maybe I was wrong 0_o
One mission in Chaos Theory had something similar: to laser mark a jet wreck for an air strike, so no information is falling into northern Korean hands.
Quote from: VaNilla on April 29, 2013, 09:26:02 PM
Quote from: RaDRoacH on April 29, 2013, 04:11:00 PM
The Spy have a Karambit and i'm curious about it, dunno if be happy or worried.
It's probably just their way of cutting out the tedium of having to grab before breaking necks. Maybe the mercs will be even more powerful, so powerful that the spies are forced to play more stealthily. What if they let you knife from any angle, and removed the elbow mechanic? It would make sense if they've made the mercs even more powerful. I actually think that would be pretty cool; it would make SvM even more stealth based than it already is. However, we can't say anything for sure until we see the reveal.
True. I'll keep my finger crossed then.
Quote from: VaNilla on April 29, 2013, 09:26:02 PM
Quote from: RaDRoacH on April 29, 2013, 04:11:00 PM
The Spy have a Karambit and i'm curious about it, dunno if be happy or worried.
It's probably just their way of cutting out the tedium of having to grab before breaking necks. Maybe the mercs will be even more powerful, so powerful that the spies are forced to play more stealthily. What if they let you knife from any angle, and removed the elbow mechanic? It would make sense if they've made the mercs even more powerful. I actually think that would be pretty cool; it would make SvM even more stealth based than it already is. However, we can't say anything for sure until we see the reveal.
I honestly wouldnt be surprised if this DID happen. I think its been brought up since Double Agent that Spies SHOULD have some kind of melee weapon (like a knife) since that is still considered stealthy. Elbowing people is better left for pro wrestlers, lol. I dont mind buffs, as long as both sides get a buff.
Quote from: AgentX_003 on April 25, 2013, 07:37:45 PM
did you even see this video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9El0-UZ5u0 ?
Why the fuck does the ghost playthrough involve sticky shocking/gassing/grabbing everyone and then not even caring when the bodies get found? That's what ghosting means now? Shit.
(hey stone you wanna have a discussion on what constitutes stealth gameplay?)
Quote from: Spark Mandriller on May 02, 2013, 08:08:43 AM
Quote from: AgentX_003 on April 25, 2013, 07:37:45 PM
did you even see this video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9El0-UZ5u0 ?
Why the fuck does the ghost playthrough involve sticky shocking/gassing/grabbing everyone and then not even caring when the bodies get found? That's what ghosting means now? Shit.
(hey stone you wanna have a discussion on what constitutes stealth gameplay?)
Still, it is a lot better than "conviction". But it is true that ghosting is supposed to be "no contact beside minor distraction" as I know it, meaning never be found, never showing presence (knocking someone out is "showing presence" too) and never kill someone (exception: killing/kidnapping someone is the main objective). But then the only thing allowed would be sneaking and throwing cans around, however as far as I know that is what you needed to do to achieve 100% is Chaos Theory.
Then again in Splinter Cell 1 you could not really "ghost" very well when protecting the prisioners against Grinko ("Grinko is DEAD! I repeat! GRINKO IS DEAD!") and his men, or espacially not when found by the special forces in the presidential palace ("Sam we will create a blackout in 5 secs, make the best out of it!").
Just looked at the FaceBook page for Splinter Cell. They actually did a poll for what people wanted the most out of Blacklists multiplayer...and wouldnt you know it, the people voted and said they wanted it to be more like Chaos Theory/Pandora Tomorrow by about a country mile. So thats a good sign.
Quote from: Meister_Neo on May 02, 2013, 10:17:20 AM
Quote from: Spark Mandriller on May 02, 2013, 08:08:43 AM
Quote from: AgentX_003 on April 25, 2013, 07:37:45 PM
did you even see this video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9El0-UZ5u0 ?
Why the fuck does the ghost playthrough involve sticky shocking/gassing/grabbing everyone and then not even caring when the bodies get found? That's what ghosting means now? Shit.
(hey stone you wanna have a discussion on what constitutes stealth gameplay?)
Still, it is a lot better than "conviction". But it is true that ghosting is supposed to be "no contact beside minor distraction" as I know it, meaning never be found, never showing presence (knocking someone out is "showing presence" too) and never kill someone (exception: killing/kidnapping someone is the main objective). But then the only thing allowed would be sneaking and throwing cans around, however as far as I know that is what you needed to do to achieve 100% is Chaos Theory.
Then again in Splinter Cell 1 you could not really "ghost" very well when protecting the prisioners against Grinko ("Grinko is DEAD! I repeat! GRINKO IS DEAD!") and his men, or espacially not when found by the special forces in the presidential palace ("Sam we will create a blackout in 5 secs, make the best out of it!").
You could get it with 0 kills. You had to KO them.
Quote from: frvge on May 02, 2013, 07:33:25 PM
Quote from: Meister_Neo on May 02, 2013, 10:17:20 AM
Quote from: Spark Mandriller on May 02, 2013, 08:08:43 AM
Quote from: AgentX_003 on April 25, 2013, 07:37:45 PM
did you even see this video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9El0-UZ5u0 ?
Why the fuck does the ghost playthrough involve sticky shocking/gassing/grabbing everyone and then not even caring when the bodies get found? That's what ghosting means now? Shit.
(hey stone you wanna have a discussion on what constitutes stealth gameplay?)
Still, it is a lot better than "conviction". But it is true that ghosting is supposed to be "no contact beside minor distraction" as I know it, meaning never be found, never showing presence (knocking someone out is "showing presence" too) and never kill someone (exception: killing/kidnapping someone is the main objective). But then the only thing allowed would be sneaking and throwing cans around, however as far as I know that is what you needed to do to achieve 100% is Chaos Theory.
Then again in Splinter Cell 1 you could not really "ghost" very well when protecting the prisioners against Grinko ("Grinko is DEAD! I repeat! GRINKO IS DEAD!") and his men, or espacially not when found by the special forces in the presidential palace ("Sam we will create a blackout in 5 secs, make the best out of it!").
You could get it with 0 kills. You had to KO them.
But as far as I know, KOing them could give penalties for the score after a certain number of KOs.
This is the list of things that i hate:
1) Frontal knife kills (bye bye elbows...)
2) Absence of free movement (No free jumps, No aerial KO)
3) Proxy detector gadget
4) Guns for spies (With guns i mean pistols. I've seen a Five-seveN and that irritate me)
5) Rifles for spies (Need to be confirmed if they are lethal or not)
6) The crossbow (Man that crossbow again? I hate that a lot)
7) 5vs5 (hopefully customizable)
8 ) Where are grabs? (need to be confirmed)
I don't even know if they are in advanced-alpha/beta, but I really hope that that poll (that Sheik mentioned) really change their minds.
Quote from: RaDRoacH on May 02, 2013, 11:39:46 PM
This is the list of things that i hate:
1) Frontal knife kills (bye bye elbows...)
2) Absence of free movement (No free jumps, No aerial KO)
3) Proxy detector gadget
4) Guns for spies (With guns i mean pistols. I've seen a Five-seveN and that irritate me)
5) Rifles for spies (Need to be confirmed if they are lethal or not)
6) The crossbow (Man that crossbow again? I hate that a lot)
7) 5vs5 (hopefully customizable)
8 ) Where are grabs? (need to be confirmed)
I don't even know if they are in advanced-alpha/beta, but I really hope that that poll (that Sheik mentioned) really change their minds.
Totally agreed with everything you said. I especially hate 1, 3, and 4.
Quote from: RaDRoacH on May 02, 2013, 11:39:46 PM
This is the list of things that i hate:
1) Frontal knife kills (bye bye elbows...)
2) Absence of free movement (No free jumps, No aerial KO)
3) Proxy detector gadget
4) Guns for spies (With guns i mean pistols. I've seen a Five-seveN and that irritate me)
5) Rifles for spies (Need to be confirmed if they are lethal or not)
6) The crossbow (Man that crossbow again? I hate that a lot)
7) 5vs5 (hopefully customizable)
8 ) Where are grabs? (need to be confirmed)
I don't even know if they are in advanced-alpha/beta, but I really hope that that poll (that Sheik mentioned) really change their minds.
lol... why grab if you can stab?
Grab would be useful only if you wanted to knock the merc out.
Quote from: Meister_Neo on May 03, 2013, 12:00:03 AM
lol... why grab if you can stab?
Grab would be useful only if you wanted to knock the merc out.
I'm just saying, I don't like those fast kills. It would be cool if you can also grab them.
Quote from: Meister_Neo on May 03, 2013, 12:00:03 AM
Quote from: RaDRoacH on May 02, 2013, 11:39:46 PM
This is the list of things that i hate:
1) Frontal knife kills (bye bye elbows...)
2) Absence of free movement (No free jumps, No aerial KO)
3) Proxy detector gadget
4) Guns for spies (With guns i mean pistols. I've seen a Five-seveN and that irritate me)
5) Rifles for spies (Need to be confirmed if they are lethal or not)
6) The crossbow (Man that crossbow again? I hate that a lot)
7) 5vs5 (hopefully customizable)
8 ) Where are grabs? (need to be confirmed)
I don't even know if they are in advanced-alpha/beta, but I really hope that that poll (that Sheik mentioned) really change their minds.
lol... why grab if you can stab?
Grab would be useful only if you wanted to knock the merc out.
Grab would/could be phased out entirely if your giving us a Knife that can insta kill from ANY position. Thats a little bit too OP. I agree with whats been said, I would be ok with it if only killed from above or behind, but from the front means Spies can use a rushdown strategy and dive at you. In this game, as a Merc, you are NEVER safe from being insta killed.