Hi all,
Just a headsup because you haven't heard much lately.
We had a couple of broken PCs and college and job issues with our most active dev members, so we haven't made a lot of progress in the past few months. However, with the stuff being repaired and the holidays on the horizon, things should pick up again. We're getting some initial input on a training level, more sounds have been uploaded and we're working on camo and UI so that's nice.
We've finished the animation for the Spy coop. It's similar to the one you already know and love from other games. There were some other additional variants for it, but they weren't feasible on a technical level. Where there are a few variants, there are more.
I'd like to ask you to think of all kinds of variants for the moves we've shown you thusfar. These can be simple, like hitting a Merc or jumping up and down, or more advanced like running up a wall or doing a fatal move to a Merc.
The same goes for the Merc's moves too.
So get creative and draw your idea! The person with the best idea (not necessarily the best drawing skills) will get an early sneakpeek of the Spy's human ladder animation, and maybe your idea will get animated!
Many people are on holidays so we'll decide in 4 weeks. That long without PS? Yup, unless we suddenly have a flow of new stuff.
Anyway, enjoy and surprise us!
frvge
I spy back to wall should be able, when near a doorway, to reach out his leg in an attempt to trip an advancing merc.
Quote from: Wh1tE_Dw4rF on July 13, 2011, 02:26:59 AM
I spy back to wall should be able, when near a doorway, to reach out his leg in an attempt to trip an advancing merc.
+9001!
Not really my idea because someone mentioned it before:
Jumping backwards off poles/ladders rather than just falling down
I want a co-op knockout move. Either it does nothing, or it makes the Merc knocked out for a longer duration. Reason why? Errr... don't really have one. I assume the downside to it would be that both spies have to be together for it to happen. Or actually put in the co-op throw move from CT. Sure, it's use isn't very practical, but it'd be more of a showboat-y way to knock someone out. Like taunt deaths in TF2.
...Love me some taunt deaths.
Give the Merc a variation on the Neck straddle thing they do when you want to be all dominatrix on the Spy that you knocked out (Where you break the spies neck by slamming his head with your gun). Give a percentage chance that it will skip that whole deal, and instead just stomp the spies neck, Issac Clarke style. Kinda like a critical hit in the, "I could have just shot you, but I decided to make this personal instead" move set. Seems brutal, and I don't actually want to picture it, but I know I'd be amazed if it happened.
...Let me fistfight as both spy and merc...
(These ideas are dumb)
Spy Tazer.
Make grenades stumble spies if they're in the blast radius.
Quote from: Tidenburg on July 13, 2011, 12:40:58 PM
Make grenades stumble spies if they're in the blast radius.
Frag grenades? Or all grenades incl Flashbang?
You guys most likely saw this a long time ago but I'll post anyways for a plug:
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg810.imageshack.us%2Fimg810%2F4290%2Fcameradisablegc9.png&hash=f7757cc4a206a156e7e6618b742bea633b4d580b) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/810/cameradisablegc9.png/)
Allows spies to disable cameras without giving a notification of "security failure." Only works when cameras are constructed on the map to allow spies to reach them, obviously.
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg11.imageshack.us%2Fimg11%2F2227%2Flaserdisablese8.png&hash=14884f9d0b6acad645371fe0ad5691f8a0954b36) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/11/laserdisablese8.png/)
Allows spies to disable lasers silently without giving the "security failure" message. Would be useful when maps have the lasers + camera combo, which is when cameras are located right outside of lasers, causing a spy who simply rolls through lasers to be detected. An example of this is found in Factory map for Chaos Theory, the room next to digger (it's been too long to remember...transformer room?).
Both above examples have the inherent coop disadvantage, which is making two spies be in the same place at the same time; limiting the spies potential to navigate the level separately and efficiently. This is a disadvantage that is capitalized by competent merc players.
I've also drawn one more for fun with my SICK painting skills:
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg31.imageshack.us%2Fimg31%2F2500%2Felbowsequence.png&hash=bc85c673a131396b84b0eba3f83dab438ad24420) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/31/elbowsequence.png/)
It doesn't have too much tactical value but it gives the spy a disabling move (with limitations) other than knocking a merc out with a grab + elbow combo or jumping on them. A merc could have a similar counter move if so desired, but how to determine who strikes who first is up for debate. Just some food for thought.
Your last idea seems familiar, oh wait.
Quote from: Wh1tE_Dw4rF on July 14, 2011, 03:14:15 AM
Your last idea seems familiar, oh wait.
I didn't even read the replies before I posted that but yeah I see we have similar ideas. After reading I had a vision and felt yours would be best represented as this...
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg803.imageshack.us%2Fimg803%2F3117%2Fdoorwayy.png&hash=60bb2c4e7eabb0dce38c7feef7bbc6a40b137a0a) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/803/doorwayy.png/)
Totally tactical. The merc is incapacitated. The spy has a disable move. AND it double serves as a humiliation move!
Quote from: Vega on July 14, 2011, 06:07:15 AM
Quote from: Wh1tE_Dw4rF on July 14, 2011, 03:14:15 AM
Your last idea seems familiar, oh wait.
I didn't even read the replies before I posted that but yeah I see we have similar ideas. After reading I had a vision and felt yours would be best represented as this...
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg803.imageshack.us%2Fimg803%2F3117%2Fdoorwayy.png&hash=60bb2c4e7eabb0dce38c7feef7bbc6a40b137a0a) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/803/doorwayy.png/)
Totally tactical. The merc is incapacitated. The spy has a disable move. AND it double serves as a humiliation move!
it sure shows about putting a smile on that face :D
For that to work, the "back to wall"-move should not make any sound.
Quote from: Vega on July 14, 2011, 02:10:27 AM
You guys most likely saw this a long time ago but I'll post anyways for a plug:
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg810.imageshack.us%2Fimg810%2F4290%2Fcameradisablegc9.png&hash=f7757cc4a206a156e7e6618b742bea633b4d580b) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/810/cameradisablegc9.png/)
Allows spies to disable cameras without giving a notification of "security failure." Only works when cameras are constructed on the map to allow spies to reach them, obviously.
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg11.imageshack.us%2Fimg11%2F2227%2Flaserdisablese8.png&hash=14884f9d0b6acad645371fe0ad5691f8a0954b36) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/11/laserdisablese8.png/)
Allows spies to disable lasers silently without giving the "security failure" message. Would be useful when maps have the lasers + camera combo, which is when cameras are located right outside of lasers, causing a spy who simply rolls through lasers to be detected. An example of this is found in Factory map for Chaos Theory, the room next to digger (it's been too long to remember...transformer room?).
Both above examples have the inherent coop disadvantage, which is making two spies be in the same place at the same time; limiting the spies potential to navigate the level separately and efficiently. This is a disadvantage that is capitalized by competent merc players.
I've also drawn one more for fun with my SICK painting skills:
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg31.imageshack.us%2Fimg31%2F2500%2Felbowsequence.png&hash=bc85c673a131396b84b0eba3f83dab438ad24420) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/31/elbowsequence.png/)
It doesn't have too much tactical value but it gives the spy a disabling move (with limitations) other than knocking a merc out with a grab + elbow combo or jumping on them. A merc could have a similar counter move if so desired, but how to determine who strikes who first is up for debate. Just some food for thought.
That is f*cking amazing
Vega!
Quote from: DreadStunlock on July 13, 2011, 03:07:23 AM
Quote from: Wh1tE_Dw4rF on July 13, 2011, 02:26:59 AM
I spy back to wall should be able, when near a doorway, to reach out his leg in an attempt to trip an advancing merc.
+9001!
This is more serious, but i've always wanted the spy to be able to grab a merc from back to wall, rather then having to 'unstick' and then grab.
Anyway, I like all of those ideas Vega accept the last one. Seems too close to a form of hand to hand QTE combat like spy vs. spy had.
I would like to see a slight mobility increase for the merc. A merc should be able to climb up obstacles that are lower than his waist. I'm thinking of small boxes/crates for one. Most of the boxes from say Warehouse (SC:CT) could be reached by jumping on the stair railing and then jump on the crate. That's a lot of hassle just to get on top of a small box.
Other thing such as railings should be able to be jumped over. Not climbing up just quickly jumping over it. Of course if the drop is too high a merc will have to man up for a second before able to walk again.
I personally think the most important moves and abilities are already in the game. Giving more moves to either the spy or merc will only make things complicated and situational. Realistically, how many times will you find time to disable a camera by coop? The idea is great but for a fast paced game as SvM it just won't make that much a difference. On the other hand, there will be some moves that could really be a great addition but those will probably be found out once we get to play.
Perhaps if they decide to put in achievements, things like situational moves could be implemented but otherwise they shouldn't focus on a once per 100 rounds move.
I also think there should be a way to counter security defenses.
Laser: Running roll or whatever it's called.
Security Camera: Camo-suit?
Pressence detector: Slow walk
Cause it's so stupid, that the Camo-suit is being picked up by the security cameras. Also, camo-suit should in fact counter lasers, since most of the camo-suit concept is the fact that the camo suit bends the light. (Note, it works on DX:HR <3)
Quote from: DreadStunlock on July 14, 2011, 08:49:25 PM
I also think there should be a way to counter security defenses.
Laser: Running roll or whatever it's called.
Security Camera: Camo-suit?
Pressence detector: Slow walk
Cause it's so stupid, that the Camo-suit is being picked up by the security cameras. Also, camo-suit should in fact counter lasers, since most of the camo-suit concept is the fact that the camo suit bends the light. (Note, it works on DX:HR <3)
I don't think a camo suit would get through lasers. Lasers require you to bounce the beam back exactly, which is why mirrors 'work'. A camo suit would bounce it back any number of ways. I guess. I have no idea.
Quote from: Justus on July 15, 2011, 05:23:35 AM
I don't think a camo suit would get through lasers. Lasers require you to bounce the beam back exactly, which is why mirrors 'work'. A camo suit would bounce it back any number of ways. I guess. I have no idea.
I agree. Maybe passing security cameras would be legitimate, but definitely not lasers. Camo suit would become very powerful.
Speaking of mirrors, I think it would be cool to have them in PS. Is it possible to have angled mirrors allowing you to see things out of your view?
Quote from: CurdyMilk on July 15, 2011, 07:25:25 AM
Quote from: Justus on July 15, 2011, 05:23:35 AM
I don't think a camo suit would get through lasers. Lasers require you to bounce the beam back exactly, which is why mirrors 'work'. A camo suit would bounce it back any number of ways. I guess. I have no idea.
I agree. Maybe passing security cameras would be legitimate, but definitely not lasers. Camo suit would become very powerful.
Speaking of mirrors, I think it would be cool to have them in PS. Is it possible to have angled mirrors allowing you to see things out of your view?
Ehhhh, Curdy the spies can already see that, we can see around 360 view by moving our mouse and we don't even need to move our character for that. Unless I miss the point.
Quote from: Justus on July 15, 2011, 05:23:35 AM
Quote from: DreadStunlock on July 14, 2011, 08:49:25 PM
I also think there should be a way to counter security defenses.
Laser: Running roll or whatever it's called.
Security Camera: Camo-suit?
Pressence detector: Slow walk
Cause it's so stupid, that the Camo-suit is being picked up by the security cameras. Also, camo-suit should in fact counter lasers, since most of the camo-suit concept is the fact that the camo suit bends the light. (Note, it works on DX:HR <3)
I don't think a camo suit would get through lasers. Lasers require you to bounce the beam back exactly, which is why mirrors 'work'. A camo suit would bounce it back any number of ways. I guess. I have no idea.
I took that out of DX:HR, so maybe you are right, I dunno :D
Quote from: DreadStunlock on July 15, 2011, 12:19:11 PM
Quote from: CurdyMilk on July 15, 2011, 07:25:25 AM
I agree. Maybe passing security cameras would be legitimate, but definitely not lasers. Camo suit would become very powerful.
Speaking of mirrors, I think it would be cool to have them in PS. Is it possible to have angled mirrors allowing you to see things out of your view?
Ehhhh, Curdy the spies can already see that, we can see around 360 view by moving our mouse and we don't even need to move our character for that. Unless I miss the point.
LOL. Of course! But I'm talking about from longer distances. i.e. look down a hallway at an angled mirror that shows the view around the corner. And now you say, "But Curdy, thats what an adhesive cam is for!" But you don't always have them set up. I am only thinking it would add some suspense if you are in a room and see some movement coming from a mirror somewhere. Just a thought.
Quote from: CurdyMilk on July 15, 2011, 05:26:42 PM
Quote from: DreadStunlock on July 15, 2011, 12:19:11 PM
Quote from: CurdyMilk on July 15, 2011, 07:25:25 AM
I agree. Maybe passing security cameras would be legitimate, but definitely not lasers. Camo suit would become very powerful.
Speaking of mirrors, I think it would be cool to have them in PS. Is it possible to have angled mirrors allowing you to see things out of your view?
Ehhhh, Curdy the spies can already see that, we can see around 360 view by moving our mouse and we don't even need to move our character for that. Unless I miss the point.
LOL. Of course! But I'm talking about from longer distances. i.e. look down a hallway at an angled mirror that shows the view around the corner. And now you say, "But Curdy, thats what an adhesive cam is for!" But you don't always have them set up. I am only thinking it would add some suspense if you are in a room and see some movement coming from a mirror somewhere. Just a thought.
Aahh ok, so I did miss the point. That makes more sense.
You get my
approved.
Quote from: Wh1tE_Dw4rF on July 14, 2011, 08:45:46 PM
I would like to see a slight mobility increase for the merc. A merc should be able to climb up obstacles that are lower than his waist. I'm thinking of small boxes/crates for one. Most of the boxes from say Warehouse (SC:CT) could be reached by jumping on the stair railing and then jump on the crate. That's a lot of hassle just to get on top of a small box.
Other thing such as railings should be able to be jumped over. Not climbing up just quickly jumping over it. Of course if the drop is too high a merc will have to man up for a second before able to walk again.
I personally think the most important moves and abilities are already in the game. Giving more moves to either the spy or merc will only make things complicated and situational. Realistically, how many times will you find time to disable a camera by coop? The idea is great but for a fast paced game as SvM it just won't make that much a difference. On the other hand, there will be some moves that could really be a great addition but those will probably be found out once we get to play.
Perhaps if they decide to put in achievements, things like situational moves could be implemented but otherwise they shouldn't focus on a once per 100 rounds move.
I was just going to quote the Merc's climbing ability, but then I read on. I agree with everything said here.
Randomly reading other topics that were mostly brought up in 2007, there are a lot of things that would be great things that should be brought back up. Vega is already starting that whole process, but there is so much more. It'd be nice to come up with a list of topics that are worth looking over. Whether because of the initial idea, or the discussion that came from it.
Might just have to have Agent reach into his mind and yank out all the topics. He seems to have them memorized for some reason.
Quote from: CurdyMilk on July 15, 2011, 05:26:42 PM
Quote from: DreadStunlock on July 15, 2011, 12:19:11 PM
Quote from: CurdyMilk on July 15, 2011, 07:25:25 AM
I agree. Maybe passing security cameras would be legitimate, but definitely not lasers. Camo suit would become very powerful.
Speaking of mirrors, I think it would be cool to have them in PS. Is it possible to have angled mirrors allowing you to see things out of your view?
Ehhhh, Curdy the spies can already see that, we can see around 360 view by moving our mouse and we don't even need to move our character for that. Unless I miss the point.
LOL. Of course! But I'm talking about from longer distances. i.e. look down a hallway at an angled mirror that shows the view around the corner. And now you say, "But Curdy, thats what an adhesive cam is for!" But you don't always have them set up. I am only thinking it would add some suspense if you are in a room and see some movement coming from a mirror somewhere. Just a thought.
I was tryin to place mirrors in ct - problems were:
1. The mercenaries didnt show up in the mirror(I assume UBI thinks all mercenaries are vampires...)
2. The mirrors couldn't reflect a mirror so when you were looking at the mirror in a mirror, you were seeing the default editor texture
3. Weird reflection angles!
I hope the awesome team will fix all that...
Quote from: puuusianka on July 15, 2011, 10:16:22 PM
Quote from: CurdyMilk on July 15, 2011, 05:26:42 PM
Quote from: DreadStunlock on July 15, 2011, 12:19:11 PM
Quote from: CurdyMilk on July 15, 2011, 07:25:25 AM
I agree. Maybe passing security cameras would be legitimate, but definitely not lasers. Camo suit would become very powerful.
Speaking of mirrors, I think it would be cool to have them in PS. Is it possible to have angled mirrors allowing you to see things out of your view?
Ehhhh, Curdy the spies can already see that, we can see around 360 view by moving our mouse and we don't even need to move our character for that. Unless I miss the point.
LOL. Of course! But I'm talking about from longer distances. i.e. look down a hallway at an angled mirror that shows the view around the corner. And now you say, "But Curdy, thats what an adhesive cam is for!" But you don't always have them set up. I am only thinking it would add some suspense if you are in a room and see some movement coming from a mirror somewhere. Just a thought.
I was tryin to place mirrors in ct - problems were:
1. The mercenaries didnt show up in the mirror(I assume UBI thinks all mercenaries are vampires...)
2. The mirrors couldn't reflect a mirror so when you were looking at the mirror in a mirror, you were seeing the default editor texture
3. Weird reflection angles!
I hope the awesome team will fix all that...
Fix what?
Quote from: puuusianka on July 15, 2011, 10:16:22 PM
I hope the awesome team will fix all that...
Don't worry, I'll take care of this.
...Just don't expect any results. ;)
While we are still kind of on the subject of mirrors, who is going to make a fun house full of hundreds upon hundreds of mirrors? - possibly some distorted mirrors for super scary moments!
I know it would probably insta-fry everybody's computer as soon as the game launches to the ridiculous amount of rendering taking place, but do it anyway.
Btw, will there be a quality checker for maps before they are downloadable or can I create some insta-fryers (like the funhouse described above, only with an innocent/misleading name) to jump start my cyber-terrorism career?
Quote from: Farley4Fan on July 16, 2011, 05:08:31 AM
While we are still kind of on the subject of mirrors, who is going to make a fun house full of hundreds upon hundreds of mirrors? - possibly some distorted mirrors for super scary moments!
I know it would probably insta-fry everybody's computer as soon as the game launches to the ridiculous amount of rendering taking place, but do it anyway.
Btw, will there be a quality checker for maps before they are downloadable or can I create some insta-fryers (like the funhouse described above, only with an innocent/misleading name) to jump start my cyber-terrorism career?
No way, I doubt it will take more rendering than BFBC2 or Crysis 2 on max settings :P
Quote from: Wh1tE_Dw4rF on July 14, 2011, 08:45:46 PM
I personally think the most important moves and abilities are already in the game. Giving more moves to either the spy or merc will only make things complicated and situational. Realistically, how many times will you find time to disable a camera by coop? The idea is great but for a fast paced game as SvM it just won't make that much a difference. On the other hand, there will be some moves that could really be a great addition but those will probably be found out once we get to play.
QFE. I guess the reason why Frvge and co. are looking for ideas is to freshen up the game and to visually differentiate it from Chaos Theory. The Merc's charge and 360 spin are both vital and cover
a lot of possibilities, so it's hard to come up with different moves that aren't already covered.
Zed, the last move I posted was a one-button sequence. No button combination would be necessary for it to work, the entire animation would happen once the special event criteria was met and after the player had hit the grab button. That being said I definitely agree that it's reminiscent of spy vs spy.
Actually, while we are on the close matter, what are your options for jumping and delays?
Will you be able to jump after a charge or a berserk? Or is there going to be a quite a delay?
Quote from: DreadStunlock on July 16, 2011, 05:39:52 PM
Actually, while we are on the close matter, what are your options for jumping and delays?
Will you be able to jump after a charge or a berserk? Or is there going to be a quite a delay?
Charge: well yes, perhaps you jump a little bit further.
Berserk: I think you shouldn't but I also don't think you should just stand there for a few seconds unable to do anything. At least let the merc stumble slowly, as if he is drunk for a brief moment.
Quote from: Wh1tE_Dw4rF on July 16, 2011, 09:07:35 PM
Quote from: DreadStunlock on July 16, 2011, 05:39:52 PM
Actually, while we are on the close matter, what are your options for jumping and delays?
Will you be able to jump after a charge or a berserk? Or is there going to be a quite a delay?
Charge: well yes, perhaps you jump a little bit further.
Berserk: I think you shouldn't but I also don't think you should just stand there for a few seconds unable to do anything. At least let the merc stumble slowly, as if he is drunk for a brief moment.
I'm just wondering if people will be able to use the Jump Bug or not ^_^
Also if a merc uses beserk he shouldn't be able to be grabbed for 3 secs... because that move is useless if a spy (has no laags and) is fast and grabs the merc after the spin.
Mercs should ALWAYS have the better cards in fights... thats the whole point of "heavy armored mercs" against "fast, agile spies".
If the merc cannot use 1 of his best moves in a fight, just because of some risk, then that move is worthless, or only good against noobs.
Quote from: DreadStunlock on July 16, 2011, 09:15:40 PMI'm just wondering if people will be able to use the Jump Bug or not ^_^
Wasn't there a thread about "Jumpbug" already?
EDIT: found it:
http://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/index.php?topic=2688.0
Quote from: Meister_Neo on July 17, 2011, 09:31:37 PM
Also if a merc uses beserk he shouldn't be able to be grabbed for 3 secs... because that move is useless if a spy (has no laags and) is fast and grabs the merc after the spin.
Mercs should ALWAYS have the better cards in fights... thats the whole point of "heavy armored mercs" against "fast, agile spies".
If the merc cannot use 1 of his best moves in a fight, just because of some risk, then that move is worthless, or only good against noobs.
Quote from: DreadStunlock on July 16, 2011, 09:15:40 PMI'm just wondering if people will be able to use the Jump Bug or not ^_^
Wasn't there a thread about "Jumpbug" already?
EDIT: found it:
http://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/index.php?topic=2688.0
No way Meister, Berserk should have that consequence, if it can knock you in the air, it should be allowed to get you grabbed easily.
Uh, I think being able to be grabbed after a beserk is part of the penalty. If a spy is being aggressive, using it at exactly the right time is key.
Quote from: Tidenburg on July 17, 2011, 11:15:16 PM
Uh, I think being able to be grabbed after a beserk is part of the penalty. If a spy is being aggressive, using it at exactly the right time is key.
;D i approve of this message : This Message has been delivered to you in association of : Agentsworld-GGZ, providing you ggs since 2003 =)
@ frvge , when you say holidays ... is that including summer or are we going to have to wait till christmas -__- ?
Quote from: DreadStunlock on July 17, 2011, 11:03:31 PM
Quote from: Meister_Neo on July 17, 2011, 09:31:37 PM
Also if a merc uses beserk he shouldn't be able to be grabbed for 3 secs... because that move is useless if a spy (has no laags and) is fast and grabs the merc after the spin.
Mercs should ALWAYS have the better cards in fights... thats the whole point of "heavy armored mercs" against "fast, agile spies".
If the merc cannot use 1 of his best moves in a fight, just because of some risk, then that move is worthless, or only good against noobs.
Quote from: DreadStunlock on July 16, 2011, 09:15:40 PMI'm just wondering if people will be able to use the Jump Bug or not ^_^
Wasn't there a thread about "Jumpbug" already?
EDIT: found it:
http://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/index.php?topic=2688.0
No way Meister, Berserk should have that consequence, if it can knock you in the air, it should be allowed to get you grabbed easily.
QFE. The whole point is that a merc can't span berserk with impunity.
in my opinion, straight, free-falls should not blockable by beserk. i mean you spin "around", and not "up". so at most angles, beserk should be able to knock down the spy but not if its a vertical fall along the Y-Axis straight on the merc's head. But it should still be able to be a better angle than an "airbash".
Also a possiblity to just use the normal merc-hit, instead of beserk at anytime should be implemented.
And also cooldown time for beserk should be at least doubled. But then again as i said not be grabbable... or AT LEAST make it possible for ALL to grab the merc and not just the host-spy -.- as good as PS servers can be... if just 1 player's individual connection sucks (the merc that used beserk, or the spy that tries to grab him), the game becomes unbalanced, because some mercs can use beserk all the time without fear of being grabbed (or getting a spy into a laaged beserk) and some can not...
(this all based on SC:CT, so i cannot guarantee that all of this applies to PS as well)
We have already decided to start things off game play wise by removing the ability for the Merc to jump at all. You will still be able to climb up onto things that are low enough, but it's a context sensitive command. This will remove bunny hopping, jumping and spinning after a missed berserk and makes the Merc seem more weighed down by his equipment and not so athletic.
Quote from: Justus on July 18, 2011, 07:25:02 PM
We have already decided to start things off game play wise by removing the ability for the Merc to jump at all. You will still be able to climb up onto things that are low enough, but it's a context sensitive command. This will remove bunny hopping, jumping and spinning after a missed berserk and makes the Merc seem more weighed down by his equipment and not so athletic.
That's going to feel...kind of awkward and peculiar at the same time :S
Quote from: DreadStunlock on July 18, 2011, 07:31:43 PM
Quote from: Justus on July 18, 2011, 07:25:02 PM
We have already decided to start things off game play wise by removing the ability for the Merc to jump at all. You will still be able to climb up onto things that are low enough, but it's a context sensitive command. This will remove bunny hopping, jumping and spinning after a missed berserk and makes the Merc seem more weighed down by his equipment and not so athletic.
That's going to feel...kind of awkward and peculiar at the same time :S
how so?
Quote from: Justus on July 18, 2011, 07:42:32 PM
Quote from: DreadStunlock on July 18, 2011, 07:31:43 PM
Quote from: Justus on July 18, 2011, 07:25:02 PM
We have already decided to start things off game play wise by removing the ability for the Merc to jump at all. You will still be able to climb up onto things that are low enough, but it's a context sensitive command. This will remove bunny hopping, jumping and spinning after a missed berserk and makes the Merc seem more weighed down by his equipment and not so athletic.
That's going to feel...kind of awkward and peculiar at the same time :S
how so?
I pop on a mercenary, and when I get bored of how slow people are to get from point A to B (Mainly spies) I jump at least 50 times :D
Right now...all I will be able to do is charge a wall :D
Uuuuh, speaking of which, are there any changes to the mercenary running into a wall?
not at this time no. though the spy will be able to easily grab from all angles if u are behind the merc, so missing a charge is bad.
anyone remember in CT that you could easily grab from behind or to the left, but if you came from the right, it would almost always elbow the merc.
That was lame.
Quote from: Justus on July 18, 2011, 07:25:02 PM
We have already decided to start things off game play wise by removing the ability for the Merc to jump at all. You will still be able to climb up onto things that are low enough, but it's a context sensitive command. This will remove bunny hopping, jumping and spinning after a missed berserk and makes the Merc seem more weighed down by his equipment and not so athletic.
makes sense. Mobility should suck with all that gear. Games like Ghost Recon and a few others I can't think of right now did not allow you to jump. I didn't mind or miss the jumping at all.
There are plenty of games where you can't jump dread. It's just going to make the spy/merc styles contrast that much more and hopefully improve the gameplay. We shall see.
Quote from: Farley4Fan on July 18, 2011, 10:21:32 PM
There are plenty of games where you can't jump dread. It's just going to make the spy/merc styles contrast that much more and hopefully improve the gameplay. We shall see.
Hey, so far I am all up for it :)
Quote from: Justus on July 18, 2011, 07:25:02 PM
We have already decided to start things off game play wise by removing the ability for the Merc to jump at all. You will still be able to climb up onto things that are low enough, but it's a context sensitive command. This will remove bunny hopping, jumping and spinning after a missed berserk and makes the Merc seem more weighed down by his equipment and not so athletic.
Well... in CT jumping was used by many people as a "charge-extender", to get through things faster, for example smoke, to not use up all of the gasmask, while going through a line of smoke clouds.
So i ask: Will there be something like the sprint of SCDA? Or will you at least make the range of the charge longer?
Quote from: Meister_Neo on July 19, 2011, 12:10:11 AM
Quote from: Justus on July 18, 2011, 07:25:02 PM
We have already decided to start things off game play wise by removing the ability for the Merc to jump at all. You will still be able to climb up onto things that are low enough, but it's a context sensitive command. This will remove bunny hopping, jumping and spinning after a missed berserk and makes the Merc seem more weighed down by his equipment and not so athletic.
Well... in CT jumping was used by many people as a "charge-extender", to get through things faster, for example smoke, to not use up all of the gasmask, while going through a line of smoke clouds.
So i ask: Will there be something like the sprint of SCDA? Or will you at least make the range of the charge longer?
well this all sounds nice from a concept point of view , but what happens when a merc is being tossed around like a ping pong ball being
elbowed back and forth ? I think the jump is essential, what the Merc is just supposed to let they spy grab ur neck o_o ?. I mean aggro spies are inevitable despite that this project is around stealth ;P
The more I think about the lack of a jump for Mercs, the more I like it. Mainly because it sounds like it solves a couple problems that are only there because you can jump (such as rail camping). As long as the context sensitive things are useful and keep the mobility of the Merc what it was, then I see nothing wrong with it on a basic level. The cons I've seen so far seem to amount to unintentional bonuses that came from jumping, rather than things that were put in specifically to do what is stated (charge extender, blocking elbow chains(?))
I can't figure out more to say without sounding stupid(er) and showing how little I remember about small things like jumping in CT.
it would be nice if there was 1.5-2.3 second delay for jumping because its nice to jump over and on- Qlemont
very thin railings just need to happen to thort off rail camping mercs just like they did in double agent.
Quote from: AgentX_003 on July 19, 2011, 09:22:01 AM
Quote from: Meister_Neo on July 19, 2011, 12:10:11 AM
Quote from: Justus on July 18, 2011, 07:25:02 PM
We have already decided to start things off game play wise by removing the ability for the Merc to jump at all. You will still be able to climb up onto things that are low enough, but it's a context sensitive command. This will remove bunny hopping, jumping and spinning after a missed berserk and makes the Merc seem more weighed down by his equipment and not so athletic.
Well... in CT jumping was used by many people as a "charge-extender", to get through things faster, for example smoke, to not use up all of the gasmask, while going through a line of smoke clouds.
So i ask: Will there be something like the sprint of SCDA? Or will you at least make the range of the charge longer?
well this all sounds nice from a concept point of view , but what happens when a merc is being tossed around like a ping pong ball being
elbowed back and forth ? I think the jump is essential, what the Merc is just supposed to let they spy grab ur neck o_o ?. I mean aggro spies are inevitable despite that this project is around stealth ;P
If you are being showed around back and forth, then you really need to find a better teammate.
got an idea:
A merc that is "touching" a wall with his back cannot be hit by a spy. I mean it doesn't make sense if a merc gets pushed into a solid wall, although he is leaning on it already... this would also be a solution for the "100%-sure-unblockable-coop-push-2nd-spy-grab-move".
Also if a merc is "touching" a wall it would be nice if he couldnt use beserk... because otherwise he would just slam his gun into the wall.
Quote from: Meister_Neo on July 19, 2011, 03:20:06 PM
got an idea:
A merc that is "touching" a wall with his back cannot be hit by a spy. I mean it doesn't make sense if a merc gets pushed into a solid wall, although he is leaning on it already... this would also be a solution for the "100%-sure-unblockable-coop-push-2nd-spy-grab-move".
Also if a merc is "touching" a wall it would be nice if he couldnt use beserk... because otherwise he would just slam his gun into the wall.
I for once would like to see somekind of a anti-move for those who are in the corners or against the wall. Like a spy charge where he can bash the mercenaries head against the wall or something. It's annoying when people get in a corner.
Quote from: DreadStunlock on July 19, 2011, 04:42:58 PMI for once would like to see somekind of a anti-move for those who are in the corners or against the wall. Like a spy charge where he can bash the mercenaries head against the wall or something. It's annoying when people get in a corner.
Are you talking about Story or DM here?
For DM i would agree.
However not for story. The Merc is supposed to ALWAYS have the upper hand in fights, so that the spies are forced to go on, instead of teaming up on 1 merc to kill him. If this will be a game where aggro spies always have an advantage when they attack 1 merc, and even are able to kill him in most cases, then this game should be called "project sam fisher" -.-
Things like this are the cause of players becoming "only-spy-noobs".
The mercs are the ones that are supposed to kill, not the spies.
Quote from: Meister_Neo on July 19, 2011, 06:52:51 PM
Quote from: DreadStunlock on July 19, 2011, 04:42:58 PMI for once would like to see somekind of a anti-move for those who are in the corners or against the wall. Like a spy charge where he can bash the mercenaries head against the wall or something. It's annoying when people get in a corner.
Are you talking about Story or DM here?
For DM i would agree.
However not for story. The Merc is supposed to ALWAYS have the upper hand in fights, so that the spies are forced to go on, instead of teaming up on 1 merc to kill him. If this will be a game where aggro spies always have an advantage when they attack 1 merc, and even are able to kill him in most cases, then this game should be called "project sam fisher" -.-
Things like this are the cause of players becoming "only-spy-noobs".
The mercs are the ones that are supposed to kill, not the spies.
Dude, you do realise this is 2v2 based game not 2v1? Your teammate is by your side for a reason.
Will your teammate come to help in tea room in club house? I don't think so... because if he does and 1 spy slips away then they get 1 obj. for free... unless you play camp tactic from the start
Actually he does, absolutely. There is only 2 spies agaisnt 2 mercenaries, one for each.
If the mercenary sees his teammate being attacked and he doesn't kill atleast one of the spies, well I am sorry then your teammate is shit.
Quote from: DreadStunlock on July 19, 2011, 01:04:32 PM
Quote from: AgentX_003 on July 19, 2011, 09:22:01 AM
Quote from: Meister_Neo on July 19, 2011, 12:10:11 AM
Quote from: Justus on July 18, 2011, 07:25:02 PM
We have already decided to start things off game play wise by removing the ability for the Merc to jump at all. You will still be able to climb up onto things that are low enough, but it's a context sensitive command. This will remove bunny hopping, jumping and spinning after a missed berserk and makes the Merc seem more weighed down by his equipment and not so athletic.
Well... in CT jumping was used by many people as a "charge-extender", to get through things faster, for example smoke, to not use up all of the gasmask, while going through a line of smoke clouds.
So i ask: Will there be something like the sprint of SCDA? Or will you at least make the range of the charge longer?
well this all sounds nice from a concept point of view , but what happens when a merc is being tossed around like a ping pong ball being
elbowed back and forth ? I think the jump is essential, what the Merc is just supposed to let they spy grab ur neck o_o ?. I mean aggro spies are inevitable despite that this project is around stealth ;P
If you are being showed around back and forth, then you really need to find a better teammate.
I am not talking about me >:( , Im talking in general.
Quote from: AgentX_003 on July 19, 2011, 09:57:23 PM
Quote from: DreadStunlock on July 19, 2011, 01:04:32 PM
Quote from: AgentX_003 on July 19, 2011, 09:22:01 AM
Quote from: Meister_Neo on July 19, 2011, 12:10:11 AM
Quote from: Justus on July 18, 2011, 07:25:02 PM
We have already decided to start things off game play wise by removing the ability for the Merc to jump at all. You will still be able to climb up onto things that are low enough, but it's a context sensitive command. This will remove bunny hopping, jumping and spinning after a missed berserk and makes the Merc seem more weighed down by his equipment and not so athletic.
Well... in CT jumping was used by many people as a "charge-extender", to get through things faster, for example smoke, to not use up all of the gasmask, while going through a line of smoke clouds.
So i ask: Will there be something like the sprint of SCDA? Or will you at least make the range of the charge longer?
well this all sounds nice from a concept point of view , but what happens when a merc is being tossed around like a ping pong ball being
elbowed back and forth ? I think the jump is essential, what the Merc is just supposed to let they spy grab ur neck o_o ?. I mean aggro spies are inevitable despite that this project is around stealth ;P
If you are being showed around back and forth, then you really need to find a better teammate.
I am not talking about me >:( , Im talking in general.
I am not talking about you either, I am talking in general ::)
Quote from: DreadStunlock on July 19, 2011, 10:01:42 PM
Quote from: AgentX_003 on July 19, 2011, 09:57:23 PM
Quote from: DreadStunlock on July 19, 2011, 01:04:32 PM
Quote from: AgentX_003 on July 19, 2011, 09:22:01 AM
Quote from: Meister_Neo on July 19, 2011, 12:10:11 AM
Quote from: Justus on July 18, 2011, 07:25:02 PM
We have already decided to start things off game play wise by removing the ability for the Merc to jump at all. You will still be able to climb up onto things that are low enough, but it's a context sensitive command. This will remove bunny hopping, jumping and spinning after a missed berserk and makes the Merc seem more weighed down by his equipment and not so athletic.
Well... in CT jumping was used by many people as a "charge-extender", to get through things faster, for example smoke, to not use up all of the gasmask, while going through a line of smoke clouds.
So i ask: Will there be something like the sprint of SCDA? Or will you at least make the range of the charge longer?
well this all sounds nice from a concept point of view , but what happens when a merc is being tossed around like a ping pong ball being
elbowed back and forth ? I think the jump is essential, what the Merc is just supposed to let they spy grab ur neck o_o ?. I mean aggro spies are inevitable despite that this project is around stealth ;P
If you are being showed around back and forth, then you really need to find a better teammate.
I am not talking about me >:( , Im talking in general.
I am not talking about you either, I am talking in general ::)
your full of it, You can't wait to bring me to a boiling point . I have said nothing at all these past 2 months. I dunno how you manage
to derail threads but good job ya did it again, Some times I wish you would stop posting all together, Even the official dev team have questioned your skills interms of this game.
Anyway before this troll responded, my point was aggro spies are invitable and If jumping and turning is taken out then its basically a free kill
for the spies.
Pre-warning before this escalates further. You two stop being annoying. :)
Quote from: AgentX_003 on July 19, 2011, 10:30:49 PM
Quote from: DreadStunlock on July 19, 2011, 10:01:42 PM
Quote from: AgentX_003 on July 19, 2011, 09:57:23 PM
Quote from: DreadStunlock on July 19, 2011, 01:04:32 PM
Quote from: AgentX_003 on July 19, 2011, 09:22:01 AM
Quote from: Meister_Neo on July 19, 2011, 12:10:11 AM
Quote from: Justus on July 18, 2011, 07:25:02 PM
We have already decided to start things off game play wise by removing the ability for the Merc to jump at all. You will still be able to climb up onto things that are low enough, but it's a context sensitive command. This will remove bunny hopping, jumping and spinning after a missed berserk and makes the Merc seem more weighed down by his equipment and not so athletic.
Well... in CT jumping was used by many people as a "charge-extender", to get through things faster, for example smoke, to not use up all of the gasmask, while going through a line of smoke clouds.
So i ask: Will there be something like the sprint of SCDA? Or will you at least make the range of the charge longer?
well this all sounds nice from a concept point of view , but what happens when a merc is being tossed around like a ping pong ball being
elbowed back and forth ? I think the jump is essential, what the Merc is just supposed to let they spy grab ur neck o_o ?. I mean aggro spies are inevitable despite that this project is around stealth ;P
If you are being showed around back and forth, then you really need to find a better teammate.
I am not talking about me >:( , Im talking in general.
I am not talking about you either, I am talking in general ::)
your full of it, You can't wait to bring me to a boiling point . I have said nothing at all these past 2 months. I dunno how you manage
to derail threads but good job ya did it again, Some times I wish you would stop posting all together, Even the official dev team have questioned your skills interms of this game.
Anyway before this troll responded, my point was aggro spies are invitable and If jumping and turning is taken out then its basically a free kill
for the spies.
******, chill the fuck out, I don't care about you boilling whatever you want to boil, to me, jumping and turning is not a free kill, cause I have a teammate who can snipe the 2 spies on me, or shoot a grenade and get a triple kill.
I'd rather see a balancing of a Merc with no jump, rather than what we all have with CT Mercs right now. Again, it seems like the jump in CT is only "Useful" because of unintentional bonuses it has versus certain situations. Jump turning to avoid getting your neck broken, while highly practical, seems like it could be replaced by any number of alternatives that do much the same thing without the need for a jump button.
Maybe something like... when you get hit by a spy, instead of going in a straight line backwards, you could steer yourself a little bit. Gives the randomness of a jump turn, while not needing to jump. How much you could influence your direction would have to be played around with. You should still lose mobility when being elbowed, but veering off course a little bit seems like an acceptable solution to me.
Maybe elbow chaining is a Co-Op move. If you hit the Merc 3 times then they get knocked out.
I would not doubt there are better options than what I just said, but just because CT did it one way and it "Worked" doesn't mean PS has to do it exactly the same.
Plus the idea that's been brought up of having the elbow key and the grab key being separate in PS makes me think more people are just going to be jamming on the grab key rather than elbowing all together. Who cares about a "Chance" of grabbing them, when you can just mash a key that ONLY grabs them.
...I'm going to stop before I type more.
(Agent, don't respond to Dread's latest post with more drama. Argue his point all you want, but that's it.)
Quote from: AgentX_003 on July 19, 2011, 09:22:01 AM
Quote from: Meister_Neo on July 19, 2011, 12:10:11 AM
Quote from: Justus on July 18, 2011, 07:25:02 PM
We have already decided to start things off game play wise by removing the ability for the Merc to jump at all. You will still be able to climb up onto things that are low enough, but it's a context sensitive command. This will remove bunny hopping, jumping and spinning after a missed berserk and makes the Merc seem more weighed down by his equipment and not so athletic.
Well... in CT jumping was used by many people as a "charge-extender", to get through things faster, for example smoke, to not use up all of the gasmask, while going through a line of smoke clouds.
So i ask: Will there be something like the sprint of SCDA? Or will you at least make the range of the charge longer?
well this all sounds nice from a concept point of view , but what happens when a merc is being tossed around like a ping pong ball being
elbowed back and forth ? I think the jump is essential, what the Merc is just supposed to let they spy grab ur neck o_o ?. I mean aggro spies are inevitable despite that this project is around stealth ;P
First of all. Stop taking our proposed game play ideas and jamming them into CT's game play. We aren't changing things in an already established game, we are building from the ground up with these design choices in mind. So a 2 on 1 in PS won't be the same as a 2 on 1 in CT.
2 on 1 or not, you still have berserk, charge, throwing down a nade and a fucking gun. Use it. 2 on 1 is just 2 people working together while the other 2 aren't. Your getting double teamed, it's supposed to be difficult.
Removing jumping solves tons of issues. Jumping and spinning after a charge, rail camping, bunny hopping and the chances a Merc can get out of a level without jumping is close to 0. Also, the command to climb up something will be the same as climbing onto ladders. No more automatic bullshit from CT where if u get close to a ladder, it will tractor you in whether you want to or not. So no jumping stays unless a real reason during testing says otherwise. Not because you can only survived being double teamed by jumping and spinning.
And as far as I know, the jumping and turning was an exploit anyway. You can't turn that fast on the original xbox version. And I know from trying that if I crank up my mouse sensitivity, I can jump and spin in the air like 2 times as merc. MT in hi-resolutions is also an exploit. If you oppose no jumping because you need jumping as an exploit to get out of being double teamed, then you should oppose changing MT so you can't exploit it to see spies in the dark.
Why not just change the functionality of the jump button so that when you can climb objects when you're standing next to them (if possible to reach)? You see that all the time in modern games, in fact it looks like Zedblade was saying something like that in his post before mine, but since I'm not sure I thought I'd throw it out there :P
I removed off topic posts on this page since they were starting to take over! Carry on with the discussion. :P
I've been thinking about enhancing the use of stick to wall thing... What annoyed me in CT was that the block collision of spy wasn't changing when you were sticking to the wall, since you couldnt get into smaller cracks in the walls. while you should be able to. My typical doors were 256x128but I wondered about makin small ways between the buildings so taht you have to stick to the wall and go thru 64 width but in CT it wasn't possible. Another thing that I thought about is the use of very narrow objects to move around. On my rocamadour map you could have jumped on the zip line and walk up it. That was very unrealistic. but you could do the same on any place. Someone mentioned the rails which shouldn't be for merc to stand on. Agree! You should do taht basically for anything taht is smaller then 32 units. How does that match with stick to the wall thing? You have in films that sometimes people get out of the window in a very tall building and walk along the wall, that is usually a very small path something around 16 units in editor, I'd say, Which is exactly the width of a rail! Why not make stick to the wall thing an ability to walk on such small paths(objects, w/e else narrow).
Quote from: Meister_Neo on July 19, 2011, 03:20:06 PMA merc that is "touching" a wall with his back cannot be hit by a spy. I mean it doesn't make sense if a merc gets pushed into a solid wall, although he is leaning on it already...
Actually... If the merc is up against a wall, a punch from the spy would most likely knock him out in a single blow.
Just like a gun. eg. a hunting rifle.
If you fire it while standing free of obstacles, the weapon will recoil and the force will wear off. However, if you stand up against a tree, the rifle will literally pulverize your shoulder, because the force can't "get away".
QuoteYou can't turn that fast on the original xbox version
Yeah you can. It's not QUITE as fast as moving the mouse around, but there is a quick turn move in the game and it's not a glitch. It's a bit like the quick turn on L4D for xbox. You tap a button, your character turns 90 degrees almost instantly.
It may be part of the game but it doesn't mean it can't be fixed or altered a bit.
Here's an idea. How about if the merc jumps and gets elbowed while in mid-air, he gets knocked out. Kind of like a crouching merc. That way the merc can still jump around, extend the charge for getting out of smoke clouds etc, and do his quick turn thang - but the spy can be rewarded for hitting a jumping merc.
Release some more screenshots from Asylum, it's been a while since we last saw some progress 8)
Quote from: STON3COLDKILLA on July 25, 2011, 05:29:45 AM
Release some more screenshots from Asylum, it's been a while since we last saw some progress 8)
agree
Something tells me there wasn't much done, I think B1nary went on a holiday or something.
Holiday? What do I pay you people for anyway?
Will it later on be possible, to "close the eyes" as merc?
With following Effects:
1. The merc sees nothing (screen is black, including hud)
2. The merc starts to "get used to darkness", while his eyes are closed (e.g. he is in a well lightened room and behind that is a dark room. So he closes his eyes in the bright room, so that is eyes are "prepared" for the dark room... all of that assuming, that the merc is not relying on Flashlight).
3. While the Merc's eyes are closed, he is immune against the visual effect of a flashbang, however not against the sonic effect.
I like the idea, but will it be worth it? As well as the mercenary has got a hi-tech helmet, and I am sure that they thought of bright to dark switching. Also, how would that work if you were in a dark room, you enter a bright room with EMF and switch it off?
Well even CT had that "getting used to darkness". But i am not sure, what brightness the visions had... maybe... "default"? 50%?
No idea...
It did oO, my chams probably removed that effect.
OMG where's the new stuff?! where is it?!
Quote from: Meister_Neo on July 25, 2011, 11:56:35 PM
Well even CT had that "getting used to darkness". But i am not sure, what brightness the visions had... maybe... "default"? 50%?
No idea...
CT have "eye acomodation" effect or however it should be called in english. It's not huge but It used to help me a lil bit in some situations ;]
the eye adjustment was cool and all, but it was ultimately made obsolete since everyone just whored out MT.
In PS it should have more of an impact.
Quote from: Justus on July 26, 2011, 08:21:05 PM
the eye adjustment was cool and all, but it was ultimately made obsolete since everyone just whored out MT.
In PS it should have more of an impact.
It should or it will? Come on spill it >:(
Quote from: DreadStunlock on July 26, 2011, 09:26:24 PM
Quote from: Justus on July 26, 2011, 08:21:05 PM
the eye adjustment was cool and all, but it was ultimately made obsolete since everyone just whored out MT.
In PS it should have more of an impact.
It should or it will? Come on spill it >:(
I can't tell you what I don't know.
Quote from: Justus on July 26, 2011, 09:35:35 PM
Quote from: DreadStunlock on July 26, 2011, 09:26:24 PM
Quote from: Justus on July 26, 2011, 08:21:05 PM
the eye adjustment was cool and all, but it was ultimately made obsolete since everyone just whored out MT.
In PS it should have more of an impact.
It should or it will? Come on spill it >:(
I can't tell you what I don't know.
You can't tell because you don't know or because you do know, but you don't know without wanting us to know what you want to know but still not knowing the thing we want to know?
I can't tell you what I don't know.
How are people messing up quotes? Took me a minute to figure out that Dread actually said something in his last reply.
Eye adjustment hasn't been discussed, that's why we don't know.
So far, the best ideas I've seen/read are:
1 (Cronky):
QuoteMaybe elbow chaining is a Co-Op move. If you hit the Merc 3 times then they get knocked out.
Based on a time limit, and keeping a stronger self-defense move like Berserk in mind, this might be a good way to get rid of the cases where you can't seem to grab a Merc when you are double-teaming. Should be fairly balanced.
2 (Vega):
The picture of 2 Spies disabling a security cam silently by standing on eachother's shoulders. I am not sure how much effect it'll have on gameplay and it's a lot of animation work, but it's a nice idea. (btw, lasers come generally from 1 side in games)
3 (Meister_Neo):
More apparent eye adjustments for Mercs based on darkness.
Vote now :P Winner gets his reward around next weekend.
Quote from: Cronky on July 26, 2011, 10:09:45 PM
How are people messing up quotes? Took me a minute to figure out that Dread actually said something in his last reply.
Fix'd, but seriously it's a forum problem...it never happened before oO
...isn't 3 just HDR?
Quote from: frvge on July 26, 2011, 10:34:07 PM
1 (Cronky):
QuoteMaybe elbow chaining is a Co-Op move. If you hit the Merc 3 times then they get knocked out.
Based on a time limit, and keeping a stronger self-defense move like Berserk in mind, this might be a good way to get rid of the cases where you can't seem to grab a Merc when you are double-teaming. Should be fairly balanced.
The only problem with my idea is that you guys are going to (unless I'm mistaken) put the grab and elbow moves on different keys. This idea makes sense for CT where there was a lot of knocking back and forth while you were TRYING to grab them, but when you have a key dedicated to that one move then you wont have to really worry about it. You just have to jam on the key until you get it.
I just don't see many people using the elbow key (regularly) if there is a dedicated key to what you're ACTUALLY trying to do every time you go for a Merc. Perhaps I'm just not thinking it through too well though, or it's something I actually have to play with to really grasp. It took reading many topics on here to understand WHY you would want to knock out a Merc rather than just kill him. This problem seems similar, and I expect I'm just as blind.
Quote from: Cronky on July 26, 2011, 11:49:33 PM
Quote from: frvge on July 26, 2011, 10:34:07 PM
1 (Cronky):
QuoteMaybe elbow chaining is a Co-Op move. If you hit the Merc 3 times then they get knocked out.
Based on a time limit, and keeping a stronger self-defense move like Berserk in mind, this might be a good way to get rid of the cases where you can't seem to grab a Merc when you are double-teaming. Should be fairly balanced.
The only problem with my idea is that you guys are going to (unless I'm mistaken) put the grab and elbow moves on different keys. This idea makes sense for CT where there was a lot of knocking back and forth while you were TRYING to grab them, but when you have a key dedicated to that one move then you wont have to really worry about it. You just have to jam on the key until you get it.
I just don't see many people using the elbow key (regularly) if there is a dedicated key to what you're ACTUALLY trying to do every time you go for a Merc. Perhaps I'm just not thinking it through too well though, or it's something I actually have to play with to really grasp. It took reading many topics on here to understand WHY you would want to knock out a Merc rather than just kill him. This problem seems similar, and I expect I'm just as blind.
Poor cronky :/ failing to understand the concept of knocking out :/..... The whole point is A) to delay the merc / buy yourself that much more time for him to get to your posistion and finally B) delaying the merc from getting more equipment once yourself runs of nades / your partner runs out of backpack.
Getting players to want to knock out a merc just as much as they want to break a neck is a general problem. In CT the reward for just knocking a Merc out was that they couldn't replenish their gadgets, however it still kept them alive and ready to wake up in only a few seconds. Breaking their necks on the other hand gave you the sweet satisfaction of grabbing a merc and seeing the pop-up message, it also kills them, causing them to respawn all the way back at their spawn point after a 10 second respawn time. Most of the time in CT breaking a neck was just better in everyway. We need to make them both equally useful.
Only things I can think of right now are:
Knocked out Mercs stays unconscious longer then a neck break and respawn would be.
Giving the players a message similar to neck breaks. (Zedblade has knocked DreadStunlock unconscious.)
Knocked out merc is automatically spy-bulleted without actually using a spy bullet. (So a knocked out merc is shown on radar for a predetermined amount of time or until death.)
Knocking out a merc is a quicker animation, allowing you to make a get away faster then breaking a neck.
Perhaps you could booby trap one of the merc's equipment. Say you choose the granades, they could blow up in the merc his face next time he wakes up. Mines that trigger a merc instead of spy. Gasmask that puffs a nausiating cloud that makes the merc sick for a short while. Security Cameras that black out once a merc tries to view them. Tazer that unloads itself on the merc.
Ofcourse a spy could only do it to 1 gadget at a time, perhaps even once a spy life. Making knocking a merc out rewarding in the long run, with a bit of RNG to keep it enteraining.
Quote from: Justus on July 27, 2011, 01:12:43 AM
Getting players to want to knock out a merc just as much as they want to break a neck is a general problem. In CT the reward for just knocking a Merc out was that they couldn't replenish their gadgets, however it still kept them alive and ready to wake up in only a few seconds. Breaking their necks on the other hand gave you the sweet satisfaction of grabbing a merc and seeing the pop-up message, it also kills them, causing them to respawn all the way back at their spawn point after a 10 second respawn time. Most of the time in CT breaking a neck was just better in everyway. We need to make them both equally useful.
Only things I can think of right now are:
Knocked out Mercs stays unconscious longer then a neck break and respawn would be.
Giving the players a message similar to neck breaks. (Zedblade has knocked DreadStunlock unconscious.)
Knocked out merc is automatically spy-bulleted without actually using a spy bullet. (So a knocked out merc is shown on radar for a predetermined amount of time or until death.)
Knocking out a merc is a quicker animation, allowing you to make a get away faster then breaking a neck.
Justus@ Excuse me!? Zed...blade...? You...kill me....cough*failcough*nochance* I mean, Agent can't do it what chance do you have?
By the way can you guys make it so the timer on respawn pops straight away, rather than when the mercenary actually falls to the ground? Cause seriously, the respawn timer can be hell of a lot longer if you get blasted and you are falling down, and you respawn only after your body hits the ground on CT.
Quote from: AgentX_003 on July 27, 2011, 12:15:29 AM
Poor cronky :/ failing to understand the concept of knocking out :/..... The whole point is A) to delay the merc / buy yourself that much more time for him to get to your posistion and finally B) delaying the merc from getting more equipment once yourself runs of nades / your partner runs out of backpack.
Yeah, that's what I ended up grasping after reading over the forum for a while. When I actually played though it always just seemed more worthwhile to kill the Merc (if in the position to do so) than to knock them out. Delaying is nice, but being 1 step closer to another form of victory always seemed better. Choking them out was showboating though. As was talking to them the whole time (thus cutting their mic out so their teammate wouldn't know what's happening).
@JustusI should have just quoted you for my response above...
What sounded nice, and was mentioned a long while back by Farley (I think), was the ability to move bodies. While not SO practical in the sense that it'll help delay a Merc even more if you're by yourself. Imagine if you could do something like... drop them to another floor (game logic as to why they don't die this way when a 2 foot drop when hanging on the edge can). It may not kill them, but it does disorient them. Kinda like getting smoked out on an Elevator and then having a spy change you to a different floor.
Sounds nice, doesn't get them ALL the way back to their spawn, but does make an inconvenience for the Merc when he wakes up.
Maybe you should just cut 'knock-outs' from the game, it's pretty useless overall and only serves to imbalance equipment :P
Quote from: STON3COLDKILLA on July 27, 2011, 04:43:02 AM
Maybe you should just cut 'knock-outs' from the game, it's pretty useless overall and only serves to imbalance equipment :P
Ew, Can anyone say DoubleAgent ? ....... thats what that deal was all about .. no knockout :/.
Quote from: STON3COLDKILLA on July 27, 2011, 04:43:02 AM
Maybe you should just cut 'knock-outs' from the game, it's pretty useless overall and only serves to imbalance equipment :P
Why not? PS removed jumping to avoid several problems, they might even follow with that. At least it will give a completely different gaming experience as well.
I second the dumping over a rail idea. Maybe even if its just during the time you have a merc grabbed that you are able to do it, sounds fun to me. You take him to a rail, hit the knockout button, and you send him over. If its high enough maybe it should kill the merc.
Quote from: STON3COLDKILLA on July 27, 2011, 04:43:02 AM
Maybe you should just cut 'knock-outs' from the game, it's pretty useless overall and only serves to imbalance equipment :P
We could always just get rid of neck breaks instead.
I mean at the very least it'd make DM players unhappy so that's something right?
Quote from: frvge on July 26, 2011, 10:34:07 PM
2 (Vega):
(btw, lasers come generally from 1 side in games)
For the coop laser disable move, which is far more practical than the coop camera disable, I envisioned it differently than how I drew it. I'll have to draw it again but it's hard with my limited paint skills. I know what you're referring to about the lasers coming from one side and the way it would work is this: Spy 1 is next to the lasers' origin and disables them by holding some reflective material against two of the lasers, allowing Spy 2 to crouch-walk through the opening; when Spy 2 finishes crouch-walking through the opening then Spy 1, while still disabling the lasers, shifts his body through the opening and on the other side of the lasers thus getting through the lasers surreptitiously and without notifying anyone of the maneuver.
Without seeing a drawing of this it will sound silly and impractical, but it would be a quick, easy, and completely practical idea for a team of spies that want to move around the map without notifying the mercenaries of their whereabouts. Technically, it doesn't have to be a "coop move," as it would only require new animation for the spy whom is disabling the lasers while the other simply crouch-walks through.
But that'd mean it's just a move for 1 Spy that's probably slower than diving through them?
IMO the knock out system was fine and served a purpose in CT. It was just as useful and worked just about the same way as gas camming. From what I remember it was about 10 seconds of actual knockout time with another second or two of them reviving and blurred vision. You could even hold them for a bit (adding even more time the merc was disabled) while your teammate advanced, took out defense, diffused or took out the other merc. That time holding the merc and doing your thing, was better then just snapping his neck for some situations. Giving the spies some tactical advantage, knowing exactly where the merc was going to wake up, no extra equipment, confusion and another chance to setup vs him (cam, decoy, neck or whatever).
Some other situations would include walking a merc over to placed mine, knocking him out and killing him with it as you run off or the baiting of the other merc to nade his knocked out teammate. Even though the end result is the same as a neck break leaving the merc dead, it still is just fun to kill someone with variety. On top of that it is just funny to see a merc die to an explosion. Breaking neck after neck after neck gets stale after a while, need some creativity and planning.
Sure there weren't too many maps or places where you could use it well but it still worked if you knew what you were doing. Like on mall for instance, if you grab a merc on the 1st floor, knock him out giving you an opening to run to the 2nd floor past the security and dealing with only one merc. If you had broken the other mercs neck, by the time you have made it to their spawn you would be dealing with 2 mercs. Same goes for ohphanage and station and a few others I just can't think of right now.
With all that said, adding time to the knockout just doesn't sound right to me. You will always have those people just snapping necks no matter what you do to the knockout system. That's because you will always have players with the mentality of 'HHAHA YOU PWNED! DMDMDM". If time is added to the knock out making it equal to a neck break, what would be the point of snapping a neck unless you wanted the satisfaction of hearing the 'crack'? As for myself, I would just knock them out all the time to dry out their nades and defense supply making for an easy win.
Adding 'Someone has gone unconscious' text would be nice though.
I just remembered that holding a Merc gave you a chance to open a Merc-only door. That was the greatest feeling in the game! Knowing that you used the Merc to give you a shortcut.
Slightly off topic, but I just had that pop into my head.
nice, forgot about that one. Knocking a merc out in the security door and keep advancing leaving an opening for your straggler teammate to run through.
Quote from: seef. on July 27, 2011, 08:27:55 PM
IMO the knock out system was fine and served a purpose in CT. It was just as useful and worked just about the same way as gas camming. From what I remember it was about 10 seconds of actual knockout time with another second or two of them reviving and blurred vision. You could even hold them for a bit (adding even more time the merc was disabled) while your teammate advanced, took out defense, diffused or took out the other merc. That time holding the merc and doing your thing, was better then just snapping his neck for some situations. Giving the spies some tactical advantage, knowing exactly where the merc was going to wake up, no extra equipment, confusion and another chance to setup vs him (cam, decoy, neck or whatever).
Some other situations would include walking a merc over to placed mine, knocking him out and killing him with it as you run off or the baiting of the other merc to nade his knocked out teammate. Even though the end result is the same as a neck break leaving the merc dead, it still is just fun to kill someone with variety. On top of that it is just funny to see a merc die to an explosion. Breaking neck after neck after neck gets stale after a while, need some creativity and planning.
Sure there weren't too many maps or places where you could use it well but it still worked if you knew what you were doing. Like on mall for instance, if you grab a merc on the 1st floor, knock him out giving you an opening to run to the 2nd floor past the security and dealing with only one merc. If you had broken the other mercs neck, by the time you have made it to their spawn you would be dealing with 2 mercs. Same goes for ohphanage and station and a few others I just can't think of right now.
With all that said, adding time to the knockout just doesn't sound right to me. You will always have those people just snapping necks no matter what you do to the knockout system. That's because you will always have players with the mentality of 'HHAHA YOU PWNED! DMDMDM". If time is added to the knock out making it equal to a neck break, what would be the point of snapping a neck unless you wanted the satisfaction of hearing the 'crack'? As for myself, I would just knock them out all the time to dry out their nades and defense supply making for an easy win.
Adding 'Someone has gone unconscious' text would be nice though.
This. Please.
Quote from: frvge on July 27, 2011, 08:00:36 PM
But that'd mean it's just a move for 1 Spy that's probably slower than diving through them?
Technically it's an animation for one spy but can be taken advantage of by the other. It's slower than diving through the lasers of course, the advantage is that it's useful when a door way with lasers is also under surveillance by a camera, giving double the security measures. Assuming the camera isn't directly on the door, then the spy could get through it silently and without setting off anything. I need to paint this so it makes sense, it's hard to explain without elaborating examples (which I can do later just not at this time).
Quote from: seef. on July 27, 2011, 08:27:55 PM
IMO the knock out system was fine and served a purpose in CT. It was just as useful and worked just about the same way as gas camming. From what I remember it was about 10 seconds of actual knockout time with another second or two of them reviving and blurred vision. You could even hold them for a bit (adding even more time the merc was disabled) while your teammate advanced, took out defense, diffused or took out the other merc. That time holding the merc and doing your thing, was better then just snapping his neck for some situations. Giving the spies some tactical advantage, knowing exactly where the merc was going to wake up, no extra equipment, confusion and another chance to setup vs him (cam, decoy, neck or whatever).
Some other situations would include walking a merc over to placed mine, knocking him out and killing him with it as you run off or the baiting of the other merc to nade his knocked out teammate. Even though the end result is the same as a neck break leaving the merc dead, it still is just fun to kill someone with variety. On top of that it is just funny to see a merc die to an explosion. Breaking neck after neck after neck gets stale after a while, need some creativity and planning.
Sure there weren't too many maps or places where you could use it well but it still worked if you knew what you were doing. Like on mall for instance, if you grab a merc on the 1st floor, knock him out giving you an opening to run to the 2nd floor past the security and dealing with only one merc. If you had broken the other mercs neck, by the time you have made it to their spawn you would be dealing with 2 mercs. Same goes for ohphanage and station and a few others I just can't think of right now.
With all that said, adding time to the knockout just doesn't sound right to me. You will always have those people just snapping necks no matter what you do to the knockout system. That's because you will always have players with the mentality of 'HHAHA YOU PWNED! DMDMDM". If time is added to the knock out making it equal to a neck break, what would be the point of snapping a neck unless you wanted the satisfaction of hearing the 'crack'? As for myself, I would just knock them out all the time to dry out their nades and defense supply making for an easy win.
Adding 'Someone has gone unconscious' text would be nice though.
QFE.
Nice.
The game hinges upon choices and options. Not superficial options like "SUPER FAST ROF OR SUPER SUPER WOWZA FAST ROF??!?", but options like "break neck or KO". Options that can give you advantages in certain situations.
God I love SvM.
Give me Beta.
Quote from: Farley4Fan on July 29, 2011, 06:40:59 AM
The game hinges upon choices and options. Not superficial options like "SUPER FAST ROF OR SUPER SUPER WOWZA FAST ROF??!?", but options like "break neck or KO". Options that can give you advantages in certain situations.
God I love SvM.
Give me Beta.
Just got trolled for a minute, thinking there was an image loading, then I scrolled down, and it's another month delay >x(
How about somehow incorporating a move that was used in Conviction's Deniable Ops? When you are grabbed by the enemy, in this case a mercenary being grabbed, the mercenary can all of a sudden give a huge pull forward to give his teammate a clear shot? Or something alike of that? And also, I think there should be a 2 second wait once you grab the mercenary, to give mercenaries a chance to even save his teammate.
I think there should not be any delay, it must be up to player to decide what to do with the merc
I do like dread's struggling idea. I don't know EXACTLY what it'd accomplish for the Merc, but I could see it working on the same timeline as the Charge (as it would be a in-grab charge). It wouldn't give the Merc any chance of getting out of the grab, but if they're being held on to, instead of just instant KO/Neck, then it would give the Merc a chance to disrupt what may be trying to happen (Opening doors, wasting time out of teammates view, ...other things).
I never understood why there wasn't at least a little bit of struggling when it came to a Merc getting grabbed, even if it's just for show. Seems more "Realistic" in terms of the game world (not that the game needs to be based on complete realism). Taking aside that an ELITE MERCENARY has no moves in his brainular to get out of a headlock, it seems like they wouldn't become super obedient at the mere touching of their back (regardless of HOW they're being held).
The delay is a bad idea though. Merc's don't need a handicap just because once the Spy gets a Merc s/he can choose to kill immediately. That's like saying a Spy that gets shot in the head should get a few seconds after they're hit (bleeding out?) so that their teammate can heal them. You know, because it's unfair that the Spies can't insta-kill from across a map like a Merc.
Quote from: DreadStunlock on July 29, 2011, 02:03:54 PM
Just got trolled for a minute, thinking there was an image loading, then I scrolled down, and it's another month delay >x(
Haha, that reminds me of this comic:
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi54.tinypic.com%2F2cymo13.png&hash=bcdff2faa6e8613c8299b96340c5460218493602)
NOT AGAIN! I restarted my goddamn router because of this :(
He only posted part of an image. How funny.
Quote from: frvge on July 30, 2011, 07:49:30 PM
He only posted part of an image. How funny.
No shit sherlock, by the way, is DX11 going to be in PS? Or not enough resources?
Our mappers don't have DX11 graphics cards to test. So no. Maybe we can have a super awesome looking DX11 map later. Gameplay > graphics.
Quote from: frvge on July 30, 2011, 09:21:23 PM
Our mappers don't have DX11 graphics cards to test. So no. Maybe we can have a super awesome looking DX11 map later. Gameplay > graphics.
<Raises hand for DX11 testing>
What about Morten? I am sure he had some fancy chipset...might be very wrong.
I ask what are advantages of DX11?
Feeding MS, Nvidia and AMD pockets?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZgt4hA4-pc
Speak for yourself Greg.
My question is... How many people will actually have a card/computer that can take advantage of DX11 at this moment in time (extending to whenever PS is released)?
Also, in that video there were some dramatic changes in some of the environments and detail. If the same level of "Upgraded Graphics" happened to PS, would it give an advantage to people who upgraded? I'm mainly focusing on the Water/Shadow/Reflection stuff that was shown in that video when saying this.
Well, my card supports it, if that's what you mean. :3
I have a feeling that I'm going to regret asking that question, and in the process feel poorer and poorer with each response. ;)
One thing now I am wondering about is, how will we get the audience to play a game and to actually download it? You guys going to need to create a very nice trailer just so it's possible to get people attracted, it's going to be hard to even invite real life friends, cause this type of genre is not really known.
Distribution channels. Indie sites. Game press (digital and magazines). The usual.
This is the wrong place to say it, but after I've finished work on a couple of projects of my own I'll be available to make a trailer, if you want. Judging by the time taken so far I imagine you'll be done near the end of the year/next year, so that shouldn't be a problem :P. Some of my old work is here, but it's not an up to date 'portfolio' as such, as I also direct in real life.
www.youtube.com/justanotheraccount
Stone@ Those are some nice videos. Really enjoyed watching those, especially the Conviction clips.
I was thinking, can mercenaries get a simple cover system? Like Crysis 2 maybe? Or even Rainbow Six: Vegas 2?
What would the Merc need to have a cover system for?
against tazing... i guess...
Quote from: Cronky on August 02, 2011, 07:28:29 PM
What would the Merc need to have a cover system for?
If you have a doorway, you can slip into the side of the door and see what's inside the room without the spy really knowing, and it would bring just a bit of the realism if you could be a bit stealthy as well, because even though mercenaries aren't really a stealth class, that doesn't mean they cannot use it for their own advantage.
+ as Meister pointed out, it would prevent a spy from tazing you too easily.
Quote from: DreadStunlock on August 02, 2011, 07:58:05 PM
If you have a doorway, you can slip into the side of the door and see what's inside the room without the spy really knowing
You mean it would become 3rd person?
How many situations in CT have you been in where you're actively trying to hide from a spy...? Yes, it's funny when you do something "Spy-like" as a Merc (jumping on a spy, Sneaking up on a Spy, ...tazing a spy), but that's only really funny because the Merc is supposed to be the exact opposite of stealth. It's like nicknaming a really big guy "Tiny".
If on the other hand there were an option to say, give each team a Merc or even to play a Merc only game (ideas that were brought up a while back), then I'd be all over this. Since in those cases you'd probably need a cover system to do things like not getting shot (by a gun that can actually kill you).
I'd be more down with a tighter cover system for the Spy. You know, the class that is supposed to be hiding behind stuff and checking rooms without the other team knowing. Hell, it'd be sweet if there was a cover to cover system like Conviction had, though I don't expect that to ever be a reality (because of the work involved).
Quote from: Cronky on August 02, 2011, 08:38:19 PM
How many situations in CT have you been in where you're actively trying to hide from a spy...? Yes, it's funny when you do something "Spy-like" as a Merc (jumping on a spy, Sneaking up on a Spy, ...tazing a spy), but that's only really funny because the Merc is supposed to be the exact opposite of stealth. It's like nicknaming a really big guy "Tiny".
If, on the other hand, there were an option to say... give each team a Merc, or even to play a Merc only game (ideas that were brought up a while back) then I'd be all over this. Since in those cases you'd probably need a cover system to do things like to not get shot (by a gun that can actually kill you).
I'd be more down with a tighter cover system for the Spy. You know, the class that is supposed to be hiding behind stuff and checking rooms without the other team knowing. Hell, it'd be sweet if there was a cover to cover system like Conviction had, though I don't expect that to ever be a reality (because of the work involved).
Well, I always have a lot of moments where I want to stick to the wall and spray the whole room with bullets without allowing a spy to incapacitate me with ease.
Quote from: SteveTheCookie on August 02, 2011, 08:29:53 PM
Quote from: DreadStunlock on August 02, 2011, 07:58:05 PM
If you have a doorway, you can slip into the side of the door and see what's inside the room without the spy really knowing
You mean it would become 3rd person?
Don't see why not, you are going to be with your back to the wall.
Quote from: DreadStunlock on August 02, 2011, 08:48:29 PM
Well, I always have a lot of moments where I want to stick to the wall and spray the whole room with bullets without allowing a spy to incapacitate me with ease.
This only sounds like a worthwhile idea
IF the spy could actually kill you with his gun. Don't read this the wrong way, this does sound like a move that could be added and it wouldn't change much at all, but the reasons behind it at this point in time are very... flimsy. Again,
IF the spy could actually kill you with his gun, or you were able to have a mixed team, then this idea would make more sense because you would use cover to not die. At this point you're just trying to rid yourself of a minor annoyance (getting tazed), while making it "easier" for you to kill the spy.
----Random explanation of my mindset on this idea----
Merc's not having a cover system just never seemed like a problem in CT, and implementing the move doesn't sound like it would add much to the gameplay. Sure, PS is going to play differently than CT in some ways, but I don't think this is going to be one of the ways that it's going to be different and thus in need of a solution.
I just thought it would make the mercenary, more mercenary like :) Which is always nice I guess.
MEH! The Mercenaries are already flawed. They've got a boss that thinks it's a good idea to put sensitive intelligence inside of: movie theaters, abandoned orphanages, aquariums, museums, stations, factories, a distribution center (Deftec), a mall, etc etc.
Something tells me that whoever paid for the Mercs to guard said intelligence didn't have enough money to get the "smart" ones.
Dunno, I actually find that smart, it's probably the most unexpected place.
Actually they are guns for hire.
It'd be unexpected if they were actually hidden...
A CD (yeah, I went semi-old school) with a document you don't want found inside of a safe is hidden away. The same CD amongst a plethora of other visually identical CDs is a hidden in plain sight. A Terminal behind the counter of a small video game store... not so hidden. Though at least security was tight on that one because a holo-map somehow knew where people were at all times. Seems like an impractical system in a mall where there would be people everywhere all day.
Quote from: frvge on August 02, 2011, 11:34:40 PM
Actually they are guns for hire.
I'm not sure what you're getting at here Frvge. Unless you were just making sure everyone knew the definition of a Mercenary. :P
(I hope you guys are reading this all light hearted-like. I forgot to put a smiley face in my last reply!)
Anyone ever thought of a mode where the mercenaries are attacking and the spies are defending?
Quote from: Cronky on August 03, 2011, 12:02:43 AM
It'd be unexpected if they were actually hidden...
A CD (yeah, I went semi-old school) with a document you don't want found inside of a safe is hidden away. The same CD amongst a plethora of other visually identical CDs is a hidden in plain sight. A Terminal behind the counter of a small video game store... not so hidden. Though at least security was tight on that one because a holo-map somehow knew where people were at all times. Seems like an impractical system in a mall where there would be people everywhere all day.
Quote from: frvge on August 02, 2011, 11:34:40 PM
Actually they are guns for hire.
I'm not sure what you're getting at here Frvge. Unless you were just making sure everyone knew the definition of a Mercenary. :P
(I hope you guys are reading this all light hearted-like. I forgot to put a smiley face in my last reply!)
Dude, where the stuff is hidden, is not your..OMG!
Can you guys give us the option of allowing us to use a somekind of a trigger to activate an objective from a random place? Like you have to recover a map or data to actually know where the required data is? Oo
Quote from: VenomousNinja on August 03, 2011, 12:16:27 AM
Anyone ever thought of a mode where the mercenaries are attacking and the spies are defending?
That seems like it would be tough to make simply because you'd need to make an objective or something that didn't involve Spies NEEDING to confront Mercenaries to defend. Unless of course there were different gadgets for this mode. Or perhaps I'm just too simple minded to think of an objective that would actually work.
(I do want to see a mode, or at least the ability, to make each team have 1 spy and 1 merc. Not sure how you'd balance it out yet, but it sounds like it could be fun)
Quote from: DreadStunlock on August 03, 2011, 01:38:39 AM
Can you guys give us the option of allowing us to use a somekind of a trigger to activate an objective from a random place? Like you have to recover a map or data to actually know where the required data is? Oo
I could get down with something like that, even if it does sound like it could complicate the Spies stuff a bit more than it should. This, and Co-op objectives.
1 spy + 1 merc vs 1 spy + 1 merc...
sounds nice actually. Mercs have to watch out for spy and merc at same time, however their own spy could tell them if their back is safe by using heat vision/HBS. Also it would be funny, if a spy tazes a merc, and the other merc Headshoots the tazed merc :D but because that whole thing could become a taze+HS war, it wouldn't hurt to remove the taze-ablility from the spygun (they can still shoot gadgets with it though).
What frvge is getting at is that these merc's bosses didnt decide to put sensitive data in places like that. The people who paid the mercenary group decided to put that stuff there, and the bosses within the merc group are just taking the money and doing a job they had no part in designing.
Unecessary depth ftmfw.
Oooooooooooh. I getcha now. I definitely meant the person paying the Merc group when I said "Boss". Never actually thought about the fact that a Mercenary group would have a boss.
...This whole thing is sounding dumber and dumber.
Quote from: Meister_Neo on August 03, 2011, 02:27:37 AM
1 spy + 1 merc vs 1 spy + 1 merc...
...it wouldn't hurt to remove the taze-ablility from the spygun (they can still shoot gadgets with it though).
I actually quite like this idea, or even making the taze duration last less time. So it wouldn't really STOP a Merc enough for your partner to get an easy kill, but it would interrupt them.
Or perhaps this is when the hacking glove style thing pops in. So you could still do something, and not have a gun that doesn't shoot.
Our engine supports it, but we're not making it for the first release.
Well of course, but knowing that it's possible is still good. ;)
Quote from: frvge on August 03, 2011, 11:13:39 PM
Our engine supports it, but we're not making it for the first release.
Question: does kismet allow you to make game modes?
(bcuz im 2 lazy 2 watch vid again and do my own research lawlz)
Quote from: Farley4Fan on August 04, 2011, 07:54:38 AM
Quote from: frvge on August 03, 2011, 11:13:39 PM
Our engine supports it, but we're not making it for the first release.
Question: does kismet allow you to make game modes?
(bcuz im 2 lazy 2 watch vid again and do my own research lawlz)
As far as I know, nope. Maybe sub-game modes.
If the mapper wants to trigger 'game end' when you shoot something, that's possible. We give you the tools (being able to hack and trigger 'objectives' for any reason), you decide the gameplay based on those tools.
I'd like to see a more developed close combat for the spies, I mean, not just the regular elbow hit if the merc is in front of you, let's say a ko hit that makes him sleep for 1 sec if you catch him on the sides, or a sweep kick if you are crouching, or stuff like that :)
KO-ing the Merc is not the goal of the elbow hit. The goal is to cover up your mistake and get a second head-start.
We have some context-aware moves in early concept stage.
right. If the spy could use such Kung Fu moves, they would feel motivated to get into a confrontation, which they shouldn't do... at least not with a reward like K.O.-ing the merc.
I thought that knocking a merc down/taking a bit of his health would be a good reward for elbowing a jumping merc. You said you currently do not allow Mercs to jump, but I think people would rather have the ability to jump at will. Sure, removing the jump will also remove some of the "problems" surrounding CQC, but I've never been a fan of context sensitive stuff in an FPS. It's not like you can't fix the problems without removing the jump completely.
Man I get sick of talking about this stuff without the ability to test it.
WHERE"S THE NEW STUFF????
BETA!
wait... if the B*TA increases the amount of time by 1 month... wouldn't ATEB accelerate it by 1 month? :D
Well anyway.... in my opinion even a jumping merc (if jumping would be included) that is elbowed, should just be pushed back like a normal merc... of course if that happens from behind, its a different story...
BTW: I would like a option to throw a granade without the gun, as merc. Of course not instant exploding, but like a normal shot nade, so if 2 spies are teaming up on 1 merc and he is out of gas mask or so, he can get some distance by throwing a nade on the ground and running away.
Sayin the forbidden word is actually 3 months x)
Well not necesarily alway ko the merc, let's say a 5% chance you'll ko him when you hit him?
Also more killing or ko-ing alternatives would be cool, so far, the only thing spies have are:
-Elbow hit
-Grab
-Rail grab
-Jump on head
-Slap when the merc is crouching
How about a suspended neck snap like in chaos theory singleplayer?
Another thing I've been thinking about: Keycodes
This works like this: Everything that can be hacked on a map has keycodes, now the spy can normally hack them, but they could also use the keycode for the same effect, without alerting the mercs. While we're at it, the mercs should be able to change the keycodes at will, and all mercs will know when one code has been changed. Now, how about the spy automatically gets one RANDOM keycode from a merc (the mercs don't know which code the spy took), if he holds him for like 10 seconds.
Watcha think? :D
Quote from: ghinsu on August 18, 2011, 09:55:47 PM
Well not necesarily alway ko the merc, let's say a 5% chance you'll ko him when you hit him?
Also more killing or ko-ing alternatives would be cool, so far, the only thing spies have are:
-Elbow hit
-Grab
-Rail grab
-Jump on head
-Slap when the merc is crouching
How about a suspended neck snap like in chaos theory singleplayer?
Another thing I've been thinking about: Keycodes
This works like this: Everything that can be hacked on a map has keycodes, now the spy can normally hack them, but they could also use the keycode for the same effect, without alerting the mercs. While we're at it, the mercs should be able to change the keycodes at will, and all mercs will know when one code has been changed. Now, how about the spy automatically gets one RANDOM keycode from a merc (the mercs don't know which code the spy took), if he holds him for like 10 seconds.
Watcha think? :D
Please dear god, denied.
Quote from: DreadStunlock on August 18, 2011, 09:57:39 PM
Quote from: ghinsu on August 18, 2011, 09:55:47 PM
Well not necesarily alway ko the merc, let's say a 5% chance you'll ko him when you hit him?
Also more killing or ko-ing alternatives would be cool, so far, the only thing spies have are:
-Elbow hit
-Grab
-Rail grab
-Jump on head
-Slap when the merc is crouching
How about a suspended neck snap like in chaos theory singleplayer?
Another thing I've been thinking about: Keycodes
This works like this: Everything that can be hacked on a map has keycodes, now the spy can normally hack them, but they could also use the keycode for the same effect, without alerting the mercs. While we're at it, the mercs should be able to change the keycodes at will, and all mercs will know when one code has been changed. Now, how about the spy automatically gets one RANDOM keycode from a merc (the mercs don't know which code the spy took), if he holds him for like 10 seconds.
Watcha think? :D
Please dear god, denied.
Which one is denied? The code or the suspended neck snap? xD
Hopefully everything, the 5% kill? Really?
Suspended neck snap? What?
Keycodes? No way.
The suspended neck snap was the move Sam could use when hanging on a horizontal pipe. He picked up the enemy and choked them out/snapped their neck. I think it would be nice to see in multiplayer even it would be a rare feat. It may only work after a merc has been confused/disoriented in a very dark area but it would be cool. It also adds some verticality to the gameplay.
Keycodes? Maybe. If people want to make some doors that are possible, but difficult, for spies to enter there could be some sort of code system. You get a code after grabbing a merc but you only have 10 seconds to use it before the code changes itself for security reasons. Instead of dragging a merc all the way to a door and getting yourself killed by the other merc, you can just snag his code and use it to access restricted areas.
Quote from: Farley4Fan on August 18, 2011, 10:17:43 PM
The suspended neck snap was the move Sam could use when hanging on a horizontal pipe. He picked up the enemy and choked them out/snapped their neck. I think it would be nice to see in multiplayer even it would be a rare feat. It may only work after a merc has been confused/disoriented in a very dark area but it would be cool. It also adds some verticality to the gameplay.
Keycodes? Maybe. If people want to make some doors that are possible, but difficult, for spies to enter there could be some sort of code system. You get a code after grabbing a merc but you only have 10 seconds to use it before the code changes itself for security reasons. Instead of dragging a merc all the way to a door and getting yourself killed by the other merc, you can just snag his code and use it to access restricted areas.
Yes, but advanced players know how to keep their targeting reticle above the horizon line.
Quote from: Farley4Fan on August 18, 2011, 10:17:43 PM
The suspended neck snap was the move Sam could use when hanging on a horizontal pipe. He picked up the enemy and choked them out/snapped their neck. I think it would be nice to see in multiplayer even it would be a rare feat. It may only work after a merc has been confused/disoriented in a very dark area but it would be cool. It also adds some verticality to the gameplay.
My only concern is Maps not built with that in mind. Kinda similar situations that the Ledge Grab gets some flak (in my mind at least) for. Spies would be waiting at choke points throughout the map that they KNOW Mercs will go through and picking them off because there isn't much that can be done to counter it (Ledge grab example that comes to mind is the 2ft drop kill on Club House Garden Room). Imagine for some reason a doorway had a pipe somewhere above it. A Spy could wait at the doorway and just wait for Mercs. Depending on how fast the move is executed, the Merc may have no real way to avoid that.
At least with ledge grabs you can shoot the fingers of a spy, as Mercs can always see the ground of the room in front of them. They can't always see the ceiling. (Unless a hanging spy is low and his hands pop in from the top of a doorway)
Quote
Keycodes? Maybe. If people want to make some doors that are possible, but difficult, for spies to enter there could be some sort of code system. You get a code after grabbing a merc but you only have 10 seconds to use it before the code changes itself for security reasons. Instead of dragging a merc all the way to a door and getting yourself killed by the other merc, you can just snag his code and use it to access restricted areas.
I didn't think of this the first time I read that keycode idea, but your idea sounds like a legit reason/way it could work. Grab a Merc, get a pass. Maybe it only works if you knock out Mercs as there is some game world reason why the locks change upon death of a Merc. Giving people another reason to KO, rather than Kill. On top of the code changing regardless after X amount of time.
I agree Cronky that the suspended grab may only be as effective as the ledge grab, but I still like the idea. Obviously it would work better on some maps than others, much like the ledge grab, but I still like it as an idea to throw out when the devs are in a position to quickly make additions to the gameplay.
I've always thought of the ledge grab as the spy's "mine" of sorts. Like the merc mine, it really only works when the enemy is offguard, distracted, or rushing to get somewhere really quickly. This suspended grab is just another kind of "mine" for the spies, and they would have to learn to use it at the proper times.
One way to counter a spy that may be hanging from a ledge above a doorway would be to charge through the doorway. I suggest that the mapmakers just avoid placing the pipes in such places.
To me the idea looks good on paper, even if the spy could just as easily jump on the merc from a pipe
I like your idea about only receiving a code after knocking out a merc especially because it could be easily described and taught in a tutorial. I think we can mostly agree that KO'ing needs some more incentives for doing so, and gaining access to some rooms with goodies (hack panels, useful passageways, health packs etc) is a great way to even out the kill/KO ratio a bit. To add an explanation, we could say the security systems detect the vital signs of the mercenaries. If the mercenaries fail and are killed, the security system goes into a lockdown mode to protect itself and the doors are locked for a period of time. Something like that.
Quote from: ghinsu on August 18, 2011, 09:55:47 PMWell not necesarily alway ko the merc, let's say a 5% chance you'll ko him when you hit him?
NEVER things like "there is a X% chance that something works"... this game is not roulette :P
Quote from: ghinsu on August 18, 2011, 09:55:47 PMHow about a suspended neck snap like in chaos theory singleplayer?
same concern as Cronky, but if that "behind door grab"-problem can be fixed, there is nothing in the way for it IMO.
Quote from: ghinsu on August 18, 2011, 09:55:47 PMAnother thing I've been thinking about: Keycodes
Interesting, however i still prefer the way it was in SC:CT Versus...
You know those little vent things on aquarius that the mercs must blow up in order for spies to pass through them?
Well how about this: The spies can pick those things up, enter the vent, and put them back in place, this way it'll add more to the stealth bit :D
Also about spy coop moves, how about rope moves? Like, there is a really high wall and you can't possibly survive the fall, you could coop with your friend to lower you down with a rope, and/or lower the rope down for you.
Vents: I think the point of those covered vents is to limit (and eventually open up) areas of the map. Not just there for spies to be sneaky. If the spies could get through them from the beginning, then the point that Mercs could blow them off would mean nothing. Might as well just not have a vent cover in the first place.
Rope Co-Op: Interesting idea if only because it reminds me of the co-op portions of CT where you would guide your spy partner down a long shaft (teehee). The use would be VERY limited though (as it was in Co-op) as most levels didn't have spots high enough that you would die if you jumped. ...Unless of course you didn't have health to begin with, in which case why are you jumping?
If levels were built with the idea in mind then it might work out in interesting ways. I can almost guarantee though that every time this idea would be used, it would always be used as a means to lower your teammate into an area at the beginning of a level, in the spy spawn. Just because the move takes so long (using CT as an example) that it would be impractical to use in an area where a Merc could be present. They'd just shoot your head off, potentially killing you both.
Quote from: Farley4Fan on August 19, 2011, 12:09:10 AM
If the mercenaries fail and are killed, the security system goes into a lockdown mode to protect itself and the doors are locked for a period of time. Something like that.
I assume by "Lockdown" you just mean that the spies wouldn't be able to open the doors, there would be no alarms or etc, and the remaining Merc would still have door abilities. It would be ridiculous if every time a Merc died an alarm went off.
Other than that though I think if it was limited to KO only, then that would be a pretty sweet plus for it. I still think that dragging a Merc to the door should still work to open it.
Random other thought, if we still get to "Hack" the communications of a Spy or Merc that is in our arms then it should just be a button press, and not a press and hold like on CT. A fun bit of that ability was that it cut communications with their partner. Un-fun part was having to hold the button to do so. Very minor, but there it is.
Ghinsu, you need to download UDK, and learn all the stuff there is about kismet, because most of the stuff you just said are possible to do, it's all up to the mapper.
Even the vent things, all you do, is just tell Kismet to open the vents when a spy gets close to them, and close after 3 seconds.
And also, PS will not feature Aquarius.
PT maps were remade... why not CT too?
I don't think they just copied everything 1:1 from PT to CT, because that would have been a legal issue.
Quote from: DreadStunlock on August 19, 2011, 11:51:17 AM
Ghinsu, you need to download UDK, and learn all the stuff there is about kismet, because most of the stuff you just said are possible to do, it's all up to the mapper.
Even the vent things, all you do, is just tell Kismet to open the vents when a spy gets close to them, and close after 3 seconds.
And also, PS will not feature Aquarius.
I'm too lazy to learn that and will be too busy in about 2 months anyway xD I'm just shouting out ideas, who knows, maybe one of them is actually good :D
Here's an idea: Sabotage
So you know how in other maps in scct there are merc ammo cans, how about the ability for the spies to empty them?
Or when you ko a merc, you unload his gun (because, seriously, who the hell would ko a person and not take away his weapons/ammo? I mean, that would be unfair in a game, but at least unload the current clip, making it necessary for the merc to reload)
Frvge, allow spies to instead of elbow hit, allow the spies to take out the pins from the grenade and push them away, better yet give them Star Wars: Force Unleashed Force Push for even more dramatic effect, or Conviction style Krav Maga 1 button kill :P
Quote from: Cronky on August 19, 2011, 11:26:05 AM
Quote from: Farley4Fan on August 19, 2011, 12:09:10 AM
If the mercenaries fail and are killed, the security system goes into a lockdown mode to protect itself and the doors are locked for a period of time. Something like that.
I assume by "Lockdown" you just mean that the spies wouldn't be able to open the doors, there would be no alarms or etc, and the remaining Merc would still have door abilities. It would be ridiculous if every time a Merc died an alarm went off.
Other than that though I think if it was limited to KO only, then that would be a pretty sweet plus for it. I still think that dragging a Merc to the door should still work to open it.
Random other thought, if we still get to "Hack" the communications of a Spy or Merc that is in our arms then it should just be a button press, and not a press and hold like on CT. A fun bit of that ability was that it cut communications with their partner. Un-fun part was having to hold the button to do so. Very minor, but there it is.
Yeah that's what I was thinking. I don't think there should be an audible alarm or anything when the merc dies, the door just won't open for spies. Doesn't have to be too elaborate, right? Each merc gets a separate random code generator or some shizz idk. The bells and whistles dont have to be to fancy. Once everyone gets past the pageantry, story behind it, and espionage style, it will just be gameplay that people really care about. No one will really wonder why you only get it after KO'ing a merc - especially if there is some kind of quick semi-plausible explanation in the tutorial.
I agree with dragging and using the merc as a human keycard, if you're close enough it may be easier anyway. Plus, it is ultimate humiliation. Why not make the merc's pants drop to further the embarrassment?!
The hack com's feature better be included. That one feature alone provided some of my best moments and memories for SvM. Im all for something that makes it easier to perform.
Another idea I'm just going to throw out there regarding keycodes: maybe make them obtainable with the (wait for it)..... Hack Glove! I know it has been discussed to death already, and I don't even remember what the community's verdict was, but if we can hack mercs like in DA we should be able to steal the keycodes to get into restricted doors. This may make it worth implementing as a gadget instead of an alternative to the ss.
Quote from: DreadStunlock on August 19, 2011, 04:12:16 PM
Frvge, allow spies to instead of elbow hit, allow the spies to take out the pins from the grenade and push them away, better yet give them Star Wars: Force Unleashed Force Push for even more dramatic effect, or Conviction style Krav Maga 1 button kill :P
ok... but to balance it out give mercs light sabers to block the "1 shoot kills" and to have more effective melee ablity, but also give them "forcejump" so they can get into spy spawn and make a bloodbath.(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.silenthillchronicles.it%2Fshcforum%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2Ftrollface.png&hash=ed2b362ce8964f77d0191adaefb5a803d69979ba)
And spies get to Force Grip the Disks and throw them into the suitcase :P
Problem, Devs? (https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.silenthillchronicles.it%2Fshcforum%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2Ftrollface.png&hash=ed2b362ce8964f77d0191adaefb5a803d69979ba)
Quote from: Farley4Fan on August 19, 2011, 09:19:08 PM
Yeah that's what I was thinking. I don't think there should be an audible alarm or anything when the merc dies, the door just won't open for spies. Doesn't have to be too elaborate, right? Each merc gets a separate random code generator or some shizz idk. The bells and whistles dont have to be to fancy. Once everyone gets past the pageantry, story behind it, and espionage style, it will just be gameplay that people really care about. No one will really wonder why you only get it after KO'ing a merc - especially if there is some kind of quick semi-plausible explanation in the tutorial.
Okay good! We were on the same page. The explanation is simple enough to ingest without sounding too ridiculous. Something about getting up after a KO would have to be a reason why the security changes (more on that later though). You're right that after the initial "Oh, that's why? Okay" situation boils over, people will just focus on the gameplay aspect of it. I do still like that it could give another pro to KOs.
Quote from: Farley4Fan on August 19, 2011, 09:19:08 PM
I agree with dragging and using the merc as a human keycard, if you're close enough it may be easier anyway. Plus, it is ultimate humiliation. Why not make the merc's pants drop to further the embarrassment?!
I like where this is going! Bring back the ability to draw penises on the Merc's visor and I think this idea works perfect. (Perhaps you just hack their helmet and have digital penises fill the Merc's screen.)
Quote from: Farley4Fan on August 19, 2011, 09:19:08 PM
The hack com's feature better be included. That one feature alone provided some of my best moments and memories for SvM. Im all for something that makes it easier to perform.
Woooo! Me too!
Quote from: Farley4Fan on August 19, 2011, 09:19:08 PM
Another idea I'm just going to throw out there regarding keycodes: maybe make them obtainable with the (wait for it)..... Hack Glove! I know it has been discussed to death already, and I don't even remember what the community's verdict was, but if we can hack mercs like in DA we should be able to steal the keycodes to get into restricted doors. This may make it worth implementing as a gadget instead of an alternative to the ss.
A long distance keycode grabber? I'd have to assume it would be much like DA in that the Mercs can tell when someone is using it on them, but the plus side of it could be that you will get a max amount of keycode have-age before the security resets itself. So while KO-ing a Merc may only give you a small window to open restricted doors, the hack glove (after appropriate amounts of hacking) would give you like... double.
Quote from: Cronky on August 20, 2011, 07:20:58 PM
Okay good! We were on the same page. The explanation is simple enough to ingest without sounding too ridiculous. Something about getting up after a KO would have to be a reason why the security changes (more on that later though). You're right that after the initial "Oh, that's why? Okay" situation boils over, people will just focus on the gameplay aspect of it. I do still like that it could give another pro to KOs.
Something I'm thinking is that they could explain it with the actual animations. With a neckbreak, the spy needs two hands. With a knockout (currently), the spy uses his right elbow in the neck/shoulder area and has his left hand free to roam around the merc's body (hawt lol). I'm thinking that while knocking the merc out with his right elbow, the spy could also just grab an actual keycard type thing off of the merc's vest with his left hand. I think it would require less work. It may cause some people to be like HEY WHY CANNOT I GRABBA DA KEECARD LIKE DAT AT ALL DA TIMEZ? But it will look good, kind of be explained, and it will only need a slight mention or video in the tutorial to get the point across.
QuoteI like where this is going! Bring back the ability to draw penises on the Merc's visor and I think this idea works perfect. (Perhaps you just hack their helmet and have digital penises fill the Merc's screen.)
Bring it back? As if it went anywhere at all! You know the devs have secretly already implemented it for themselves as a secret dev-only humiliation technique. I've paid them good money to have the screen read "FarleyWuzHere!" in the center of the merc's screen.
QuoteQuote from: Farley4Fan on August 19, 2011, 09:19:08 PM
The hack com's feature better be included. That one feature alone provided some of my best moments and memories for SvM. Im all for something that makes it easier to perform.
Woooo! Me too!
Something I feel I can say confidently (w/o Agent and the crew jumping all over me) is that one thing the xbox version does better is the hacking com's feature. Everyone uses the same chat channel. If you get 4 cocky people playing for realsies and talking ish, there is no better feeling than to tag one with a spy bullet and listen to them slowly start to panic as you hack away. There has to be some kind of incentive for using Project Stealth's actual chat channel if we want the chat hacking feature to make an impact at all.
Quote
A long distance keycode grabber? I'd have to assume it would be much like DA in that the Mercs can tell when someone is using it on them, but the plus side of it could be that you will get a max amount of keycode have-age before the security resets itself. So while KO-ing a Merc may only give you a small window to open restricted doors, the hack glove (after appropriate amounts of hacking) would give you like... double.
I like where you're going with this. It seems like there are a lot of variables to tweak, and that gives you more options in terms of actually balancing it. Do you think this idea alone could be enough to resurrect the hack glove idea? At the length it has been discussed and buried, I doubt it. However, it's still kind of interesting to me.
Too much work would go into breaking that quote up so I'll just reply without it!
KO IDEA:
It would be sweet to have a nice little animation that explains HOW this idea gets done. I assume that a physical keycard wouldn't be taken, mainly because there is the minor detail of how the Merc gets another card that's left out. Instead, much like how doors are activated by proximity anyway, the Spy would just steal the code off of the card. Kinda like one of those Visa "Tap and Go" deals. The Spy would simply need to tap wherever the keycard is on the Merc and then game logic explains everything else.
Game logic also explaining why they couldn't do that with a neck break (though then again, we did already explain that the code lockdown is triggered by the Merc's Vitals, or rather lack there of).
IN GAME CHAT:
Using the in-game chat was definitely more prevalent in the Xbox version. That seems to be my biggest miff with PS (and Ubisoft SvM in general) for PC. Hacking the Coms for either team was by faaar my favorite part of any gadget (Followed closely by PT's Phosphorus Grenade). Not only was it sweet to sometimes overhear something vital, but it was equally as fun trying to trip up the other team that you knew was listening in (both in a legit way, and just by talking about outrageous, off topic things).
It sounds like it's going to be hard to figure out a way to make everyone use the In-Game chat when other third party software is so close at hand (and frequently used). I'd hope there is some way to force it, but it sounds unlikely. If they can get the voice quality as good as Xfire/Steam/Vent/Teamspeak/etc. then I guess there would be more of an incentive to not NEED to jump through an extra hoop while playing the game (opening up on of the programs mentioned before).
HACKING GLOVE:
Adding in that ability might make it more useful, but it doesn't seem like it would do much to change peoples opinions. Though the hacking glove never got a stern "NO!" in any of the topics I remember reading a while back. I can already hear Frvge saying, "Sounds like a good idea of PS 2(.0). It wont be in PS 1(.0) though".
I hadn't thought of the fact that if the spy takes the card, then the merc will not have one. Seems pretty important unless we think it's plausible that a merc has a pocket full of infinite keycards generating random codes lolz
To tip toe around this impossibility, I like your suggestion of the tap 'n' go. The spy puts his little wrist computer thing over an area and quickly scans for the code. I think it was called an opsat or something in splinter cell. The spy knocks out the merc and gets a little beep on his wrist comp.
Possibly make a 3rd option when you have a merc. Neck break, knockout, or 'scan and knockout'. This would let the devs create a longer, more plausible animation (with the scan and the knockout) for gameplay and explanation reasons. Maybe the spy would knock out the merc first, and then the spy would hold the knocked out/limp body while scanning for the code to the door.
With this option you have risk/reward: hold onto the merc for a bit longer to get a code but risk being killed by his teammate. But the problem is that now we are getting back to square one where we might as well just drag the merc to the door and even kill him. I'm thinking, though, that the tap n go idea would work here and make the animation only a second or so longer.
Beta. Now.
I agree with your other responses.
I'm liking all of this so far.
What might be a solution to this that doesn't QUITE solve the "Why not drag him to the door?" issue is that you simply have to hold the Merc (Drag style). Eventually the Merc dies, or passes out (forget which one happens) if you hold them long enough anyway. Why not just make that time spent holding, and the eventual KO be the "hacking" portion of this? That way you have the three options you just said, but you, as a spy, are still able to do something (move). The risk is that you are heavily slowed down while holding them, but in the case of an unfortunately placed grab, you'd at least be able to maneuver a little bit.
Again, the reason why it doesn't work with Neck Breaks is because once the Merc dies, the codes get locked down.
I'm kinda getting off the beaten path of why you shouldn't just KO, but then again if your partner just hacked a Keycode and you just got a Merc you'd still have to KO (whether or not you hold out and hack, or not is up to you) so that his hack didn't get denied. So there is a little bit of teamwork involved in all this.
Also, just to clarify, only the Spy that hacked would be able to open doors temporarily. So there wouldn't be any "Oh, my teammate hacked a Merc across the map and now I have free rein over here".
I think the merc would actually choke and die if you held him long enough. The only problem I can think of regarding the "hold2hack" idea is that communications can't really be blocked in the PC version due to the 3rd party programs we talked about earlier. The merc will just tell his teammate what is up. You'd be losing some precious time and it's basically just 1v1 - your mate versus the other merc.
In any case, especially by adding a 3rd option, we are avoiding the regular ole KO move and why the spy should use it - like you said.
If one of the pro's to using the KO is that it releases the merc quicker, then would it even be worth making it longer just to get this keycode? We are basically removing one pro, just to give it another pro - albeit a bigger pro.
I'm starting to think that it needs to retain its quickness in order to separate itself from the neckbreak.
I have another idea that just may be crazy enough to work, so try to stay with me lol
Say we give the spy 3 options when he has a merc grabbed. Neck break, KO, and hack.
The neck break and KO can be used in conjunction with the hack option.
The hack option would be a quick 2-3 second scan. When completed, the spy would still be holding onto the merc. Both spies then have access to the doors for a certain amount of time unless the spy breaks the mercs neck. Upon the death of the merc, the doors are shut and can only be opened by the living mercenary. This would promote teamwork. The spy can break the merc's neck after his teammate gets through the door if he wishes, but lock himself out in the process. The spy could hack the merc, knock him out, and then have enough time to make a break for a door.
The hack can also do other things. We can maybe combine it with the hacking communications move that we both love oh so much.
And maybe, just maybe, this hack move would only be possible with the hacking glove ;D
The communication concern you have is legit, but then again, regardless of KO or Neck Break the Mercs will be telling each other what's going down when they rightfully shouldn't be able to talk. Not that that helps the idea, but it's a constant obstacle to deal with.
I agree that it seems like the more we try to develop this idea, the more it's ruining the whole aspect of what the KO was originally. What I like about the hold2hack dealio though is that while it MAY not get more people to use KO on purpose, it does force them into using it if they want a benefit. KO already has given benefits, and holding them to death was more for humiliation purposes, but now it would have something more to it. Still isn't what we began this discussion with though, which was giving KO a reason to be used more often.
I'm hesitant to agree on the new idea you mentioned though. I find the idea of opening up ALL the doors a little too much. Not that I think it'll be ABUSED too much, but because I think it would be unfair to the Mercs (the one that's still alive at least). When you, as a spy, open a door up from the backside for your Merc partner, then that means you two are in close contact. That's the risk, while the reward is that you gave your teammate a shortcut. Doing something like on say, Def Tech, where you could grab someone outside, hack, and open the A, B, AND C doors wouldn't give the other Merc ANY idea where the other Spy MAY be.
Also I don't quite understand how hacking a Merc unlocks doors not nearby. A small detail, but it popped in my head.
hey what with "1-2 screenshots per week"?
OMG where's the new stuff?
In the pipeline :)
Quote from: frvge on September 18, 2011, 12:53:16 PM
In the pipeline :)
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.genscape.com%2Fuploads%2Fpipelines.jpg&hash=d8e2f65953b954299e209131d436b43dc982d45c)
Which one of those?
Good News Everyone!
September UDK has just been released and has official Mac support!
You may now scream - although I do not have a Mac!
Quote from: LennardF1989 on September 20, 2011, 09:53:58 AM
Good News Everyone!
September UDK has just been released and has official Mac support!
You may now scream - although I do not have a Mac!
Disgusting...
Quote from: LennardF1989 on September 20, 2011, 09:53:58 AM
Good News Everyone!
September UDK has just been released and has official Mac support!
You may now scream - although I do not have a Mac!
Question is:
Why we should care about srack support?
Because in the beginning of time there were discussions whether PS would run on Mac or not, that's why.
Well, we can't guarantee that it works yet, until we've tried it... but the fact that it's an OPTION is really cool.
Quote from: frvge on September 20, 2011, 11:55:17 PM
Well, we can't guarantee that it works yet, until we've tried it... but the fact that it's an OPTION is really cool.
just like putting PS on ones cell phone is possible too because UDK has supported it from the very earliest release as well.
I would seriously like to see the plan that would have to make to make this game possible on a phone.
Not like, "Heeeeey... It's just a little different programming/scaling stuff down (a lot)", but like... How would this game work in both gameplay and functionality on a phone? How would you map the controls so that they would fit on a screen so small (taking in the fact that not all phones have a physical keyboard)? What gameplay limitations would have to be put in?
I'm excited to hear that Mac support is possible, as the game was meant for PC's and this only makes it have a broader base of potential players, but then again... I'd be excited about an unrendered screenshot of the left ass cheek of the Merc. So take that as you will. ;)
By the way, was there any thought on not allowing spies and mercenaries to use a tazer while in the rain?
I don't know why, but the tazer in CT seems to taze the mercenary for longer than in dry areas???
Quote from: DreadStunlock on September 21, 2011, 07:04:02 PM
By the way, was there any thought on not allowing spies and mercenaries to use a tazer while in the rain?
This seems like it would suck, because it would limit level... environments? Aquarius wouldn't be the same if it wasn't constantly raining! Though will Spies be able to use Cloak in the rain? (Still should suck if so... like... obvious rain silhouette when cloak)
Quote from: DreadStunlock on September 21, 2011, 07:04:02 PM
I don't know why, but the tazer in CT seems to taze the mercenary for longer than in dry areas???
Is it because water is conductive, thus making electricity from the tazer more effective in the rain?
...sounds legit.
Yes, that does make sense, but I was wondering if that is actually true, AND if PS will follow the same. :)
So do you guys want to see something new at the end of this weekend?
I want to see something new right now. ;)
(But yeah, end of the weekend works too)
Definitely, the forum will stay inactive until anything comes out :P
Edit: should have read the topic
Quote from: frvge on October 07, 2011, 09:25:00 PM
So do you guys want to see something new at the end of this weekend?
frvge - master of sarcasm.
Quote from: KnoogeR on October 07, 2011, 11:33:09 PM
Quote from: frvge on October 07, 2011, 09:25:00 PM
So do you guys want to see something new at the end of this weekend?
frvge - master of sarcasm.
Ping* Ping*
Quote from: frvge on October 07, 2011, 09:25:00 PM
So do you guys want to see something new at the end of this weekend?
Yeah, that's not gonna work for me. I had a transvestite fairy visit me last night and tell me that I was going to "die sooner, rather than later". Wtf does that even mean???
Quote from: frvge on October 07, 2011, 09:25:00 PM
So do you guys want to see something new at the end of this weekend?
Yes please!
Quote from: Farley4Fan on October 08, 2011, 09:13:02 AM
Quote from: frvge on October 07, 2011, 09:25:00 PM
So do you guys want to see something new at the end of this weekend?
Yeah, that's not gonna work for me. I had a transvestite fairy visit me last night and tell me that I was going to "die sooner, rather than later". Wtf does that even mean???
Hahahahaha! This made me chuckle.
Quote from: Wh1tE_Dw4rF on July 13, 2011, 02:26:59 AM
I spy back to wall should be able, when near a doorway, to reach out his leg in an attempt to trip an advancing merc.
+1 nice idea...
Good to see you guys still working, very impressed with spy customisation ;)
GJ Guys.
Not yet. Progress in the next few weeks depends on a couple of external factors. No way to influence them, just gotta hope the stuff gets done.
Don't push me, I'm in a bad mood. Affects my modding.
cant tell if serious
i know things happen that are out of your control, but it doesn't mean i cant flip you guys some shit every once in a while.
And once again:
OMG where's the new stuff?
But of course this is just a joke, so that a discussion can begin and this forum is more active once again.
Need some VFX artist to make the new stuff good enough to show.
And new ps release date is....? 2012? Give us more stuff(screenshots or vids ;d)
Ok, so maybe let's start off by saying that I am very glad this indie is getting slowly to an ending of production. We really need the continuation of versus but in better conditions then CT is right now. Congrats to whole team for their hard work that they have put into this game so far.
Now! As I am watching moddb now and the awards, I'd like to say that I don't think you have to concentrate on visuals that much. Besides Minecraft proved that graphics mean nothing, gameplay is the way you do it. So I am awaiting to see either a confrontation of merc and spy or some other stuff. You could show us some update on tazer maybe? I remember it had a fucked up aiming on some vid or if that's too much then throw a nade in the dinning room on lakehouse and show us the breaking of tables... Just anything.
I wish, but artists have a say in the release of stuff too. If their work isn't the quality they wanted it to be, and they still plan to work on it, it isn't in anyone's interest to show it at that moment in time. A few will appreciate it, but most others will just see the flaws, that's just how humans see the world.
The moment we have something to show, I will. We have some cool stuff in the pipeline like smoother movement, but the first animations for that are still to be implemented, which can take 1.5 months to get it to look good and smooth and fluid like we want it.
Main page is completly outdated. Poll is 2 years old (or so) and last text update is from august.
yeah, yeah. We just dont have a better video. And new stuff comes in the next release, in about 2 days.
Well i am not talking about the content, but about the fact that it looks as if PS was dropped, if you just look at the main page.
I just dropped in to say "OMG where's the new stuff?" ... Again.
New release coming up :-) Well, probably next weekend. Muhahaha. Still need to do some prep-work for it.
"2 days, 2 weeks, 2 years what's the difference, we will release it SOME DAY."
~PS Developers
Stop bitchin' and start learnin' how to make maps with UDK if it's goin' too slow for you. Or somethin'.
Quote from: frvge on January 15, 2012, 11:36:40 PM
Stop bitchin' and start learnin' how to make maps with UDK if it's goin' too slow for you. Or somethin'.
^
True story bro.
@frvge - each time you say the same thing and each time I tell you that I already am doing that. Besides I just rephrased your motto "it will be done when it's done"(plus it was your idea to start a topic named OMG where's the new stuff?!) :D
@dread - EDIT: I shouldn't have said that. I'm sorry.
Quote from: Pusianka on January 16, 2012, 01:05:29 AM
@frvge - each time you say the same thing and each time I tell you that I already am doing that. Besides I just rephrased your motto "it will be done when it's done"(plus it was your idea to start a topic named OMG where's the new stuff?!) :D
Don't worry man, they already had an update recently. The karma system is gone!!!
y u don't gimme UpDates?! RAGE! PS is dead! (not)
RAGE!RAGE!RAGE!
...or in other words: thread PUSHED
I think you're looking for this thread you just pushed out of the most recent topic. (http://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/index.php?topic=3120.0#msg63800)
Granted nothing was shown, but if what was said was true then there wouldn't be any pictures or anything to show for it. Unless you like raw code.. in which case you're weird. ;)
Plus a song just got released last week! (http://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/index.php?topic=3107.msg63765#msg63765) (Depending on which day your first day of the week is)
Yes i know, but i answered with this:
Quote from: Meister_Neo on January 22, 2012, 02:09:44 PM
WHAT? 'A'-choice won? WTF!
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi0.kym-cdn.com%2Fphotos%2Fimages%2Foriginal%2F000%2F002%2F256%2FNOT_AS_PLANNED.PNG%3F1242242744&hash=a92cf78f8bf38c6df23980a9a0aa67e7560821c0)
and wanted to see my "B" choice! :P
well... frvge said something about "maybe releasing some other things" (probably content of choice B & C)... the key word for that however is the "maybe" which means we may NEVER see it until PS 1.0... or even later! :'(
It wont be never. The problem that we see when it comes to frvge's words and our expectations goes something like this...
------------------------------------------------------------
What we read: "...maybe releasing some other things. (See also: "...soon")"
What it means: "If everyone gets done with the pieces I think should be done then we can release a big update (Video/Screenshot/Music/etc)."
What we think: "Option B is for Beta."
What actually happens: Something is released, but sometimes it's a lot less exciting than what we expected. Sure, when they are released, the animations are fun to watch, the pictures are worth a few glances, and the music gives us something to listen to. At more trying times though, a thread on PS's website design is released. We all then give a big collective sigh and pack up our expectations for the next media poll. ;)
-------------------------------------------------------------
What we read: "If all goes well..."
What it means: "Don't get your hopes up."
What we think: "PS beta next month."
What actually happens: Person vital to progression of said thing(s) drops out temporarily because of life/school/work/etc., thus pushing everything back a set amount of time. Not just the release of said update, but the release of PS in general. 5 years later this will be accepted as the norm, but most average forum go-ers will still be expecting it to change.
-------------------------------------------------------------
What we read: "...two weeks."
What it means: "...around two weeks..."
What we think: "two weeks."
What actually happens: 2+ additional weeks added because of the reason(s) in the last example, but also a thread (or bumping of old thread) quoting the time originally stated at least once per day, regardless of repeatedly stating their situation. :P
---------------------------------------------------------------
no! I don't CARE what it is! I want my "B" optiooooon! damn democracy!
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffail.brm.sk%2Fragin_n_trollin%2Frage-face.jpg&hash=a71c8740615a2baa42231669779c07c90214abfc)
how could you chose option A?
(side note: In reality i am indeed happy about the new music. But i am just angry that MY option didn't win!)
Actually, I gave you guys option B, Option A was something that was hold up because of work-related things by a dev. So there :-P. Option A would have been a video of an enhancement.
Can we get more fancier updates? I mean presentation wise? I loved tick tocks :(
I'm not going to name a time frame. I'll have to see some internal progress first before I'm going to talk about tick tocks.
5 seconds ago you thought that there is something new and interesting posted? Too bad for you! There is nothing but this pointless PUSH post!
EDIT: see below.
and you are rong about it XD :p there is something new coming up :p
Quote from: comicsserg on March 02, 2012, 02:24:30 PM
and you are rong about it XD :p there is something new coming up :p
Hmm ok. Well then let me correct it.
Quote from: Meister_Neo on March 02, 2012, 02:15:27 PM
5 seconds ago you thought that there is something new and interesting posted? Seems you are right! There is a SUCCESFUL PUSH POST that was answered by a dev!!
comics knows more than I do apparently. :o
Or... He just said it because it sounds cool... ;P
hahaah no :D I really have some animation stuff coming up ;)
Wow a dev member that is alive! I thought the only ones that live are lennard and frvge (and sometimes binary). But now someone awakened from his slumber and even frvge didn't know about his work! Well... until now i thought that every dev member is like a robot, controlled by frvge but this really changed my opinion ;)
And to all who thought "new post = new realease!"
........
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frevolushii.ro%2Fforum%2FSmileys%2Fsmileys%2Ftrollface.png&hash=ea4cf4e77b7d7b3f93ed2525750eee6aade7faf4)
I still don't get it Meister, why do you give a crap? There are so many more things to do than stalk Project Stealth 24/7...
Just leave it idle, and stop bugging them.
hahahaa good one ;)
just uploaded new stuff ^^ not much but still new :p w8ing approval of frvge
Just hypothetically, if you have some free time AND you're done with all other anims why not try to make a parachute jump anim? ;P Its JUST-A-SUGGESTION!
not all anims are done yet ;) but indeed if I will have time and coders will have time to implement stuff then I'll make all kind of cool anims ;)