Author Topic: What if...  (Read 30508 times)

Offline Spekkio

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What if...
« on: September 17, 2010, 09:49:06 PM »
Both spy and merc visions used energy like camo?

Discuss

Offline Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet

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Re: What if...
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2010, 09:54:47 PM »
Worth a try. However, maps would need to be more cover-based than now.

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Re: What if...
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2010, 10:01:37 PM »
It's a good idea but, it will be hard to balance energy consumption I think.

Offline Spekkio

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Re: What if...
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2010, 10:23:24 PM »
Worth a try. However, maps would need to be more cover-based than now.
That makes no sense...having infinite use of MT/EMF where you can be spotted in dark areas requires less cover than limited use of them?

Does not compute.

Offline CurdyMilk

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Re: What if...
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2010, 10:44:37 PM »
Half of the time using visions is a disadvantage anyway, so why make it even worse by adding a limited duration?

Offline Cronky

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Re: What if...
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2010, 10:55:10 PM »
I think it could work (anything CAN work), but as Knooger said, energy consumption would have to be balanced.

Even at that, where do you stop with it? Merc's Visions use energy, but does that mean the torchlight does also?

As a spy I would hate using Nightvision (or Thermal) only to be spotted by a Merc and finding myself unable to shock him. Yes, it is my fault for using the vision a lot, BUT still that doesn't make it fun. For Camo alone that's okay since there is a big plus to using it that is purely optional. For visions... not so much since either one could be seen as "Vital" to the core gameplay of the spy.

Though... I assume this thread is mostly for the Merc side because of your (and many others) distaste for vision whoring that happens on that side.

As a kind of counter to this idea... I assume EMF ghosting will be taken care of so EMF wont be so annoying and MT will be tweaked (whatever that could mean), or at the very least more levels will be taking MT whoring into their design (By such a means as giving "False" readings as a couple levels do in CT, if I remember right).


So... it could work, but I don't personally think it's needed.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2010, 10:57:24 PM by Cronky »
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Offline Spekkio

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Re: What if...
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2010, 11:35:20 PM »
Half of the time using visions is a disadvantage anyway, so why make it even worse by adding a limited duration?
Yea that's why like 90% of players during the game's peak used MT all the time and most spies use thermal anytime they're not trying to be super-sneaky on top of a ceiling.

Sure is a big disadvantage that you can see everything you can normally + see in shadows + hear a loud buzzing noise with an alert box anytime a spy farts. I suppose the fact that everything is monocolor is a 'disadvantage', but it's not like the gfx were any good, anyway.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2010, 11:37:17 PM by Spekkio »

Offline Spekkio

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Re: What if...
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2010, 11:38:49 PM »
I think it could work (anything CAN work), but as Knooger said, energy consumption would have to be balanced.

Even at that, where do you stop with it? Merc's Visions use energy, but does that mean the torchlight does also?

As a spy I would hate using Nightvision (or Thermal) only to be spotted by a Merc and finding myself unable to shock him. Yes, it is my fault for using the vision a lot, BUT still that doesn't make it fun. For Camo alone that's okay since there is a big plus to using it that is purely optional. For visions... not so much since either one could be seen as "Vital" to the core gameplay of the spy.

Though... I assume this thread is mostly for the Merc side because of your (and many others) distaste for vision whoring that happens on that side.

As a kind of counter to this idea... I assume EMF ghosting will be taken care of so EMF wont be so annoying and MT will be tweaked (whatever that could mean), or at the very least more levels will be taking MT whoring into their design (By such a means as giving "False" readings as a couple levels do in CT, if I remember right).


So... it could work, but I don't personally think it's needed.
Vision whoring occurred as spy as well, it's just that no one really cared because spies lost most of the time due to a combination of a) people sucking at it and b) the game's glitches effectively disabling 2/3 of the ways you can temporarily neutralize a merc.

Offline Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet

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Re: What if...
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2010, 11:41:36 PM »
Worth a try. However, maps would need to be more cover-based than now.
That makes no sense...having infinite use of MT/EMF where you can be spotted in dark areas requires less cover than limited use of them?
Mercs would still have infinite torchlight, which would be kind of imbalanced without something to counter is (in this case, obstacles), therefore, spies would be actually nerfed by this.

Offline Spekkio

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Re: What if...
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2010, 12:40:29 AM »
Worth a try. However, maps would need to be more cover-based than now.
That makes no sense...having infinite use of MT/EMF where you can be spotted in dark areas requires less cover than limited use of them?
Mercs would still have infinite torchlight, which would be kind of imbalanced without something to counter is (in this case, obstacles), therefore, spies would be actually nerfed by this.
They already have infinite flashlight...what's your point?

The flashlight reduces your visibility to like 25% of the screen in darkness...MT retains 100% screen real-estate while still letting you see in the dark and it warns you when a spy moves. I'm still failing to see the connection.

Offline VaNilla

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Re: What if...
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2010, 12:51:13 AM »
I don't think this is a good idea, it would make the game less fun to play and there's no advantage to the addition. What you're suggesting is a solution for a problem that doesn't exist.

Offline Farley4Fan

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Re: What if...
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2010, 01:49:14 AM »
As long as the visions are balanced I don't think there would be a need to make a energy limit especially for spies.  By balanced I mean no EMF ghosting and MT that has a range.  Afaik that's the way they are being implemented that way into PS, right?  I haven't seen the MT video in a long time.

I really don't know how an energy limit would affect gameplay but it could possibly be a good thing for mercs if the visions are deemed op again. 

Offline Spark Mandriller

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Re: What if...
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2010, 08:15:14 AM »
I actually kinda like this. It is pretty dumb when people spend the whole game in MT, and why wouldn't they right now? It'd be much cooler if it was something you turned on when you suspected something was up, like a gas mask, instead of just something you left on for the whole game. Making special visions special visions, instead of default visions.

I don't think anyone's ever gonna use NV if it drains your energy though.

Offline B1nArY_001

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Re: What if...
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2010, 08:58:31 AM »
Camo energy renews itself over time. about 6-8 seconds to full again if I remember correctly. The place where balance could be an issue is that some maps would require heavier use of visions where others you could do just fine without them. In the end, it's going to either be to short a duration for some maps and no different than SCCT is currently on other maps. For the most part visions are nearly useless to a Spy and will actually put you at a disadvantage so for a spy I would hazard a guess that you'd notice almost no change whatsoever.

This particular type of game places restrictions on the mapper in layout and lighting already. Adding yet another element to the mix that will impact layout and lighting would likely take away more from the game than energy consuming visions would add in my opinion.

Offline zglina

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Re: What if...
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2010, 11:28:59 AM »
For me  it's good idea but like someone said before basic problem is energy balance.
It's good idea because u can make "hardcore mod" in game. And only host can decide to use this mode on his server.
But hardcore mode cant has only one "hardcore" thing.U must add more "hardcore thing,movments or whatever"

pfu pfu pfu i say yes for this idea.