Project Stealth

I remember it got mentioned a while back (I'll link if I can find it) that the Merc in PS might not have the ability to jump. Perhaps to be replaced with context sensitive actions (hopping rails, climbing boxes, etc). What do you guys think of Jumping as a whole? Do you think it's actually NEEDED for the Merc gameplay? While it has been talked about before, it seems like it could be talked about again.

Personally I think that Jumping is not needed if there is a smart enough context sensitive mechanic implemented. It seems like it would also help with cutting down on peoples ability to exploit certain areas in levels that were not meant to be used (rail camping, as an example). Also cutting down on certain unexpected 'bugs' (like not being able to grab a Merc if he's hopping in CT).

It's not 100% good though as I also believe it cuts down on the freedom of gameplay. Especially when transitioning from Merc to Spy and then back again. Both sides, while different in actual control, have similar controls (in CT). Jumping, turning, crouching, walking, actions, shooting, etc. It's all is mapped to basically the same buttons. So not being able to jump as one character, but can for another may cause, very minor, confusion, or a feeling of restriction that some may not like.

Then again... It also would differentiate the two teams even more. Which I like.

That's weird poll to be honest. ::) I cannot imagine playing as merc without jumping even if it's kinda "unbalanced" sometimes. Imagine CT without jumping, two spies would easy grab you so, I think "Jump bug" is not a huge problem. Rail camping is not a problem in story ( If I remember correctly it's not gonna happen in PS anyway ) and I hope PS devs will not release DM gameplay quick after PS is release. :) You should be able to climb/jump on boxes etc. as Merc and "exploiting" maps and tricks will take a lot of time and knowledge which is just better for game. ( Yes I know, you shouldn't be able to enter spy spawning room as Merc or make selfcoop right to objective as spy ( I mean about Factory's mechanical digger's one ) but that ehances gameplay IMO. )
:-*

Quote from: Cronky on December 21, 2011, 11:01:50 PM
[...]
Then again... It also would differentiate the two teams even more. Which I like.

In Project Stealth teams gonna be way more different than they are in PT/CT atm. Spy is gonna get a lot more abilities so, You shouldn't be bored :P

@Below
I still think jumping ability is needed/wanted for Merc and it will not break anything.

I worded the poll weird, so I edited it. Meant it to only point towards the Merc gameplay. You got that though.

It does seem weird to think of not being able to jump. It seems like a staple for any game now a days, but is it NEEDED? Imagine playing TF2 and the Heavy couldn't jump. While jumping does help at some very specific times with the Heavy, I would say that jumping with that class isn't NEEDED. Wanted? Yes. Jumping with Scout on the other hand? Absolutely. That's a big part of their class, so it is needed.

That's my thought process with the Merc. Is it actually NEEDED? Also again, if the normal abilities you'd usually use jumping for would be implemented as a context sensitive action (Which I believe are separate from the jumping mechanic regardless). I'm also imaging that PS will have the obvious network/bug fixes that required such things as the jump bug or getting grabbed. Good netcode and proper hitboxes for Merc would help (as I imagine) balance out the Merc side (as well as Spy). I'm pretty much talking out of my ass right here though as I don't know anything about anything technically wrong with CT SvM. I'm just saying things I've read on here. :P

I don't think there's much point in a Vega sucks option when nobody's seen Vega in like two years.

Shit, half you guys probably don't even know who he is.



Also yeah I'd really just rather do my jumping on my own rather than relying on the game to try and work out what I want. You can just design maps to make it impossible to get on rails if you really want to.


Also also if we can't jump we can't play hard jump.
And we wouldn't want that.

Remove it completely.

Jumping makes sense- some times you have to run away as a merc and jumping will give Mercs a fighting chance in an ambush

Let it be known that I think mercs should be able to jump.  So it was written, and so it shall be done.  (I voted vega sucks, and yes you did that right, I just wanted to say that it should be +1 to the "yes" option).  Context jumping has gotten on my nerves lately with battlefield 3.  The game constantly thinks I want to bunny hop in front of the obstacle, not jump over it.

If DICE can't do it right, I have no faith that PS will.

Quote from: Brain Golem on December 22, 2011, 12:15:59 AM
I don't think there's much point in a Vega sucks option when nobody's seen Vega in like two years.

Shit, half you guys probably don't even know who he is.

It feels like tradition. Just one of those traditions I was never part of. Like Hanukkah if I was Christian.

Quote from: Brain Golem on December 22, 2011, 12:15:59 AM
Also yeah I'd really just rather do my jumping on my own rather than relying on the game to try and work out what I want. You can just design maps to make it impossible to get on rails if you really want to.

You could build levels that you couldn't get onto rails, but without jumping then you wouldn't have to tailor to such a small detail. It is a small annoyance, but it would be dealt with completely if the option wasn't there. With little to no drawback (aside from no random jumping)

Quote from: Farley4Fan on December 22, 2011, 03:02:36 AM
Context jumping has gotten on my nerves lately with battlefield 3.  The game constantly thinks I want to bunny hop in front of the obstacle, not jump over it.

I think your comment fall closely with Brain Golem's. It's a legit concern that the PS team could create a crappy context jumping mechanic. What PS has potentially over Battlefield is less room to work with. From what I've heard of Battlefield games, their levels are huge. More objects means more confusion for someone to run into. The smallest maps in Battlefield, I would believe, match probably the biggest maps in PS (or as a more tangible example, CT). While that doesn't necessarily rid the problem of none-to-smart jumping contexts, it does, in my head, make it seem like there would be less instances of a miscommunication about your actions in-game.

Quote from: BearInATie on December 22, 2011, 01:16:22 AM
Jumping makes sense- some times you have to run away as a merc and jumping will give Mercs a fighting chance in an ambush

Assuming the jump bug is no longer a thing in PS, or as I've read about how it would work here, it wouldn't matter whether you jumped or not as jumping would no longer negate getting grabbed. Now that doesn't mean that it would be easier for Spies to grab Mercs, as I am guessing something is being worked out to make that more balanced.

A fair point.  I think a good portion of the playtesting would have to go towards testing the context jumping. 

I think it's a good idea to ask the devs.  So, devs, are the maps currently being made with the mercs able to jump?  I'm under the impression that the merc CAN jump as it stands right now.  Adding context movement would mean it's necessary to change the already-made maps.

I ask the pro-context people, how would the merc clear gaps with no dedicated jump button?  Zelda style maybe with autojump?  With the verticality of SvM I just don't see it as a good idea.

I swear I remember reading a while back (still trying to find it) that jumping hadn't been implemented (...for the Merc), so in turn I'd assume nothing would be dependent on jumps map-wise, at that time.

I ask though, as a question to your reply Farley, what gaps and maps NEED the Merc to jump in CT? I'm not asking which maps have a spot only accessible by jumping (ex: Forklift in Deftec), but which maps require that a Merc clears a gap to get to any one objective in a timely manner? Assuming again that rail-jumping, ladders, buttons, and doors were still taken into account on maps as context sensitive actions. You can also still fall also, just to be clear.

Also why would maps need to be reconfigured? (this question is kind of connected to the question above)

Wait wait wait...

Mercs could jump at all?

No wonder I was shit at merc :\

Quote from: Cronky on December 22, 2011, 07:38:26 AM
I swear I remember reading a while back (still trying to find it) that jumping hadn't been implemented (...for the Merc), so in turn I'd assume nothing would be dependent on jumps map-wise, at that time.

I ask though, as a question to your reply Farley, what gaps and maps NEED the Merc to jump in CT? I'm not asking which maps have a spot only accessible by jumping (ex: Forklift in Deftec), but which maps require that a Merc clears a gap to get to any one objective in a timely manner? Assuming again that rail-jumping, ladders, buttons, and doors were still taken into account on maps as context sensitive actions. You can also still fall also, just to be clear.

Also why would maps need to be reconfigured? (this question is kind of connected to the question above)

That's what I am trying to remember, someone said jumping was not implemented at all, and they didn't implement it because it removes a lot of bug factors or chances of having bugs.

Quote from: Brain Golem on December 22, 2011, 12:15:59 AM
You can just design maps to make it impossible to get on rails if you really want to.

This. Jumping opens up so many more tactics that it would just feel wrong not to have it in my opinion, couldn't imagine not being able to jump over rails to cut out stairs in places like Tech Room on Aqua. I'd actually like to see jumping improved with context sensitive controls like BF3, I actually think jumping works great in that game, rarely had problems with it. It would open up so much gameplay if you could actually climb objects where it makes sense.

Quote from: STON3COLDKILLA on December 22, 2011, 05:55:31 PM
This. Jumping opens up so many more tactics that it would just feel wrong not to have it in my opinion, couldn't imagine not being able to jump over rails to cut out stairs in places like Tech Room on Aqua. I'd actually like to see jumping improved with context sensitive controls like BF3, I actually think jumping works great in that game, rarely had problems with it. It would open up so much gameplay if you could actually climb objects where it makes sense.

I seem to be missing the amount of tactics that really open up. Jumping over rails (I get that you mean jumping over rails while running down stairs) can be achieved at any flat rail with context sensitive actions (I'm pretty sure you could do that in CT, or maybe it was DA). It could be even possible on any rail, regardless of orientation if the Dev's wanted it to.

Again, I simply mean the act up jumping at will. I agree it would be weird to not be able to jump, as any game, regardless of need lets you jump, but is it actually needed for the Merc Gameplay? Bearing in mind that context sensitive actions (Running, hopping rails, climbing, perhaps climbing on top of stuff, perhaps vaulting small objects, etc.) would still be included in the Merc's abilities. Just not jumping at will.

jumping causes more headaches than it solves. we don't have hopping over rails yet for the merc, but we can look into that if it is needed.

Quote from: Cronky on December 22, 2011, 07:38:26 AM
I swear I remember reading a while back (still trying to find it) that jumping hadn't been implemented (...for the Merc), so in turn I'd assume nothing would be dependent on jumps map-wise, at that time.

I ask though, as a question to your reply Farley, what gaps and maps NEED the Merc to jump in CT? I'm not asking which maps have a spot only accessible by jumping (ex: Forklift in Deftec), but which maps require that a Merc clears a gap to get to any one objective in a timely manner? Assuming again that rail-jumping, ladders, buttons, and doors were still taken into account on maps as context sensitive actions. You can also still fall also, just to be clear.

Also why would maps need to be reconfigured? (this question is kind of connected to the question above)

For gaps I was thinking more along the lines of something like warehouse.  Jumping from box to box to get to unsuspecting spies and whatnot.  It sounds as though there is no jumping (going off of what frvge said) and I guess that would mean the maps are all designed with that in mind.

Quote from: frvge on December 22, 2011, 08:20:42 PM
jumping causes more headaches than it solves. we don't have hopping over rails yet for the merc, but we can look into that if it is needed.

That makes it sound like jumping isn't included, but you didn't specifically say so. :P

Without jumping I would have to agree that a bigger look at context sensitive actions would have to be made. Mercs need to be mobile for sure, it's just that jumping didn't do as much work as I think some people think it did.

• Hopping over rails is a must in my eyes.
• Vaulting seems like it would be kind of interesting to me, and by vaulting I mean a quicker hop over stuff (not just rails) if you say... sprinted at it instead of just normal running.
• Climbing, aside from ladders, came up here as a possibility.

I imagine the climbing one has a height limitation. Such as climbing on top of a box that is half your height is possible, but climbing on a box AS tall as you would not be.

Quote from: Farley4Fan on December 22, 2011, 08:27:22 PM
For gaps I was thinking more along the lines of something like warehouse.  Jumping from box to box to get to unsuspecting spies and whatnot.

That's along the lines of what I thought you meant. Though it doesn't seem like much of a matter anymore, I didn't consider those jump a real NEED for the Merc. They added a seemingly unexpected tactic to the Merc gameplay because of their ability to jump, but it never came of to me that things such as the boxes in warehouse were ever set up specifically for Mercs to get the drop on a spy.

A few things I just thought of.  Jumps were useful for clever mine/trap placement, frag/flare lobbing, and occasionally for getting a look over certain obstacles.  I think the lack of jumping will change the gameplay quite a bit, but not necessarily for the worse.  I guess we'll see.

Good points there, but they all depend on the map.

Jumping is important.

Hey bro, you're kind of an asshole.

Jumping is NOT "essential" as we all realized. However i would say that, at least for us (ex-)CT-players, jumping is part of the game, and without it, the game feels... "wrong".

To the poll question Merc jumping? I answer: Yes, however i would play the game even without jumping, but in my opinion jumping is part of the SvM-, or even the shooter-, concept. Didn't any of you ever had the feeling, that there is something wrong, when you played a FPS/TPS where there was no jumping for the 1st time?

Quote from: Cronky on December 22, 2011, 03:34:51 AM
It feels like tradition. Just one of those traditions I was never part of. Like Hanukkah if I was Christian.

Hanukkah is a Jewish holiday...

Quote from: Farley4Fan on December 22, 2011, 10:18:40 PM
A few things I just thought of.  Jumps were useful for clever mine/trap placement, frag/flare lobbing, and occasionally for getting a look over certain obstacles.  I think the lack of jumping will change the gameplay quite a bit, but not necessarily for the worse.  I guess we'll see.

These are good points.  Jumping was useful in these situations, but as frvge said, it all depends on the map.

My conclusion: 
Necessary?  No.  Important? Yes...only if you want to make it that way.

No Jumping = Inability to feel free and explore.

= Weird (and will probably piss you off over time).

Almost like -->> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0Amt30_QVQ

Quote from: CurdyMilk on December 27, 2011, 06:34:12 AM

Quote from: Cronky on December 22, 2011, 03:34:51 AM
It feels like tradition. Just one of those traditions I was never part of. Like Hanukkah if I was Christian.

Hanukkah is a Jewish holiday...

I don't know if you're arguing the fact that I called it a "tradition" instead of a holiday, or you just didn't understand what I typed. :P

Aside from that it seems that, other than minor conveniences and it "feeling" wrong, jumping isn't essential to the Merc gameplay.

Which I mean to word as there is no game balancing advantage, in CT for examples sake, that can be attained because of the ability to jump.

Well with the first release we gonna see how game looks like without jump ability as merc. Tbh it looks like game is still far from release and we gonna have time to test new things.

If game without jump will be as good as old good SvM i'm gonna be happy, future will show everything. :)

BTW. Frvge what's going on with new forums/website? It's going slowly forward or you cba to do it atm?  :P

Well I couldn't bother to read everything so I will go upon my own conclusion, and that being Jumping is essential to the game, especially if you are being double teamed, However I do not think mercs should be able to jump over railings ie. Clubhouse railings.. that is imba for sure.

Besides I have said in the past really the merc shouldn't be able to balance on the railings with all that heavy equip. enuff said.

Quote from: AgentX_003 on December 27, 2011, 09:20:13 PM
enuff said.

oh he's such a bright student! A year ago he was writing just "nuff"! Four more years and he'll master the spelling!

Quote from: KnoogeR on December 27, 2011, 09:10:24 AM
BTW. Frvge what's going on with new forums/website? It's going slowly forward or you cba to do it atm?  :P

Just started on it.

Quote from: AgentX_003 on December 27, 2011, 09:20:13 PM
Well I couldn't bother to read everything so I will go upon my own conclusion, and that being Jumping is essential to the game, especially if you are being double teamed...

How will jumping help you out if you're getting double teamed in PS?

We have other ideas for the counter of being double teamed, but those are still very much under debate.

QuoteBesides I have said in the past really the merc shouldn't be able to balance on the railings with all that heavy equip

This... this is sig worthy.  Absolutely hilarious

Quote from: frvge on December 27, 2011, 11:03:27 PM
We have other ideas for the counter of being double teamed, but those are still very much under debate.

Are you saying you're finding ways to counter teamwork?

Huh...

Quote from: Cronky on December 27, 2011, 11:01:24 PM

Quote from: AgentX_003 on December 27, 2011, 09:20:13 PM
Well I couldn't bother to read everything so I will go upon my own conclusion, and that being Jumping is essential to the game, especially if you are being double teamed...

How will jumping help you out if you're getting double teamed in PS?

Install CT/DA and we are gonna show you :P

LOL look at poll. It seems the majority wants jump back^^

However something is wrong... are we really 18 people?

Let's all so take crouching into consideration, that thing is just as bad as jump bug.

Quote from: DreadStunlock on December 28, 2011, 02:55:35 PM
Let's all so take crouching into consideration, that thing is just as bad as jump bug.

But mercs can also enter some vents that way!

Yeah, but it's also one of the most bitchy moves Knooger does that makes him ridicilous to grab xD

Quote from: Meister_Neo on December 28, 2011, 02:21:54 PM
LOL look at poll. It seems the majority wants jump back^^

However something is wrong... are we really 18 people?

Maybe we are, but people are shy!

Quote from: DreadStunlock on December 28, 2011, 03:31:53 PM
Yeah, but it's also one of the most bitchy moves Knooger does that makes him ridicilous to grab xD

Aha, no one likes you.

Quote from: KnoogeR on December 28, 2011, 11:18:51 AM

Quote from: Cronky on December 27, 2011, 11:01:24 PM

Quote from: AgentX_003 on December 27, 2011, 09:20:13 PM
Well I couldn't bother to read everything so I will go upon my own conclusion, and that being Jumping is essential to the game, especially if you are being double teamed...

How will jumping help you out if you're getting double teamed in PS?

Install CT/DA and we are gonna show you :P

Silly Knooger! That wont answer my question. That will just show me how some other game took care of that problem with the inclusion of jumping. ;)

Quote from: Cronky on December 27, 2011, 11:01:24 PM

Quote from: AgentX_003 on December 27, 2011, 09:20:13 PM
Well I couldn't bother to read everything so I will go upon my own conclusion, and that being Jumping is essential to the game, especially if you are being double teamed...

How will jumping help you out if you're getting double teamed in PS?

He means bunny hopping to make spies miss the grabs... (It worked on SCCT)

What cronky is getting at is that CT =/= PS.  Why can't we have jumping but also have grabs work during the jump?

Has anyone ever had a crazy idea of kicking grenades out of the way? I mean, you should be able to if a Mercenary throws a grenade on a knocked out spy, you could just kick it away asap? :/ or maybe it's crazy....

Quote from: Farley4Fan on December 29, 2011, 04:47:04 AM
What cronky is getting at is that CT =/= PS.  Why can't we have jumping but also have grabs work during the jump?

In my opinion, someone who is aware, that a spy is behind him and trying to grab him should NOT be grabbable, because it would be like: "Yea dude i know exactly you are behind me, but who cares about that go ahead and 'stealthily' do a 'surprise' grab, although its NOT 'stealthily' and 'surprising'.... WAIT WHAT?! SOMETHINGS NOT RIGHT!" But i agree it would be lame, if someone would be jumping around all the time... how about adding "stamina bar" like we all know from RPGs like Skyrim? Could also be used for sprints!

Quote from: DreadStunlock on December 29, 2011, 05:32:43 AM
Has anyone ever had a crazy idea of kicking grenades out of the way? I mean, you should be able to if a Mercenary throws a grenade on a knocked out spy, you could just kick it away asap? :/ or maybe it's crazy....

Sounds like Call of Duty

Hmm even though I had voted yes for merc jumping , I was still feeling ready to adjust my playing style
to accommodate the lack of jump because in turn perhaps the xbox players are right, that jumping and turning doesn't
require skill, and that I think it would change the face of the game cause peeps who charge , would have to rely on sniping alone ?

These are my thoughts on this matter. Discuss.

Haven't we just finished this topic? We could just as much discuss the weather today right now, come on man?!

Just shut up Pusianka/Dread you're actually insufferable, nobody cares about how much you hate Agent.

Quote from: AgentX_003 on January 02, 2012, 02:02:52 AM
Hmm even though I had voted yes for merc jumping , I was still feeling ready to adjust my playing style
to accommodate the lack of jump because in turn perhaps the xbox players are right, that jumping and turning doesn't
require skill, and that I think it would change the face of the game cause peeps who charge , would have to rely on sniping alone ?

These are my thoughts on this matter. Discuss.

You brought up a good point. It seems like the lack of jumping would give a bigger risk/reward to the charge. I like the sound of it in my head, but I don't know how well it will work out actually in game. Not that it really matters since jumping wont lessen the chance of you getting grabbed in PS (at least from what we've heard).

Quote from: STON3COLDKILLA on January 02, 2012, 01:34:16 PM
Just shut up Pusianka/Dread you're actually insufferable, nobody cares about how much you hate Agent.

you brought up Dread while he hasn't said a darn thing(I'll smite you for that) and to be just perfectly honest I haven't attacked agent. Even more I wished him honest happy new year. So at that point I gave him back the clean card. Now that I think of it. The post I made might have been useless shit produced because of lack of conversation but your post was just as much useless. That is why I will smite you again. 

There's no need for that in here. Unless you're discussing what was last brought up (Risk/Reward for Merc abilities affected by the lack of jumping), then you don't need to post at all.

Quote from: BRAIN GOLEM on December 22, 2011, 12:15:59 AM
I don't think there's much point in a Vega sucks option when nobody's seen Vega in like two years.

Shit, half you guys probably don't even know who he is.

Two years my ass.  For the other remark, Brain Golem (noop) is right.  Fuckin change your name back to Noob-Ni or at the very least Noop-Ni.  Or better yet, Spark Mandriller.

Merc jumping is fine.  Just make it so it can't be gay. 

WELL WHATEVER I WAS SO LONELY IT FELT LIKE TWO YEARS

VEGA!!!

Quote from: Vega on January 05, 2012, 05:00:59 PM
ne.  Just make it so it can't be gay.

That's some very constructive criticism here...

Quote from: Spark Mandriller on January 05, 2012, 07:14:11 PM
WELL WHATEVER I WAS SO LONELY IT FELT LIKE TWO YEARS

Quote from: LoChang on January 05, 2012, 10:40:16 PM
VEGA!!!

<3 <3 <3

Btw, Project Stealth is still looking great!  You guys are doing an awesome job, very proud of you little nublets.  You make your mother so happy  :'( sniff I'm just so proud sniff  :'(

Quote from: Pusianka on January 06, 2012, 02:40:32 PM

Quote from: Vega on January 05, 2012, 05:00:59 PM
ne.  Just make it so it can't be gay.

That's some very constructive criticism here...

"Being gay" = jumping out of a grab or an attempt to grab.  I like merc jumping because it allowed the merc to interact with the level in unforeseen and usually surprising means.  It was fun shit.

Quote from: Vega on January 07, 2012, 10:00:06 PM

Quote from: Spark Mandriller on January 05, 2012, 07:14:11 PM
WELL WHATEVER I WAS SO LONELY IT FELT LIKE TWO YEARS

Quote from: LoChang on January 05, 2012, 10:40:16 PM
VEGA!!!

<3 <3 <3

Btw, Project Stealth is still looking great!  You guys are doing an awesome job, very proud of you little nublets.  You make your mother so happy  :'( sniff I'm just so proud sniff  :'(

Quote from: Pusianka on January 06, 2012, 02:40:32 PM

Quote from: Vega on January 05, 2012, 05:00:59 PM
ne.  Just make it so it can't be gay.

That's some very constructive criticism here...

"Being gay" = jumping out of a grab or an attempt to grab.  I like merc jumping because it allowed the merc to interact with the level in unforeseen and usually surprising means.  It was fun shit.

Two years (vegas ass) and he still has more posts than I.

Quote from: LoChang on January 07, 2012, 10:18:33 PM
Two years (vegas ass) and he still has more posts than I.

+1 Karma!  I applaud you, sir.  There, now it's even!  But hey, don't let that 3 karma get to your head.  I remember the days when I had 2 karma...wink wink nudge nudge

Wow what an irony I actually have sth to say on this topic after all.

One of the main problems considering lack of jumping is also unabillity to put clever mines. Well it suddenly appeared to my head that we could just throw them on the wall(There was sth like that mentioned in the past) using the gun. If that is implemented, I will feel almost comfortable with the lack of jumping.

Is it possibly gonna be implemented or you're afraid of sth? I haven't thought it over much to e honest.

We have a setting to make grenades stickable. Not sure if that's going to be in the game. Was more a programmer experiment. But 'throwing' mines would be possible in theory, only have to distinguish the throw from the normal placement.

Pusianka, to be honest I think having the sith in the game would be completely overpowered.  I'm not afraid I just think it's a step in the wrong direction. They don't even care about objectives, they only care about power, further complicating the SvM dynamic. 

I want a paragon/renegade system.  If not, you can kiss my 84 cent donation GOOODBYE

oh frvge! you must (temp-)ban farley! He starts trolling to reach 5000 posts!  :P
---
Hmm throwing mines is interesting. But it always was a chance for the spies to kill the merc when placing the mines, but this would make it impossible and with that it's even harder for the spy team.

If the distance is kept small enough, it'd be possible.

Jumping should stay with the following:

-Slightly higher (like 1/2 sec) cooldown after a jump.
-Missed berserks don't let you jump for the duration of the berserk cooldown.
-Missed bullcharges do not let you jump for the duration of the bullcharge cooldown.
-Fix the funny punch bug.

If you do those things, then mercs won't be able to jump themselves out of the situations they shouldn't -- like bullcharging into a wall or being immune after missing a berserk entirely.

Quote from: Spekkio on January 10, 2012, 12:07:34 AM
Jumping should stay with the following:

-Slightly higher (like 1/2 sec) cooldown after a jump.
-Missed berserks don't let you jump for the duration of the berserk cooldown.
-Missed bullcharges do not let you jump for the duration of the bullcharge cooldown.
-Fix the funny punch bug.

If you do those things, then mercs won't be able to jump themselves out of the situations they shouldn't -- like bullcharging into a wall or being immune after missing a berserk entirely.

Holy cow!  A Spekkio has been sighted!

I endorse the above points, spot on.

lol, with these points let's remove beserk COMPLETLY. Because if its good player vs good player, then beserk will not be used anyway.

Instead i think the normal elbow hit should be modified, to make it as efficient as the spies' elbow hit. I mean spies can always "spam" the shift button to get a succesful elbow, while mercs' elbow can only be tried once and because of laags etc. it is almost impossible to hit the hitbox at the right time. So either make elbow the same for the mercs, as it is for the spies, or do it the other way around and make spies' elbow hit like the merc one.

But if you just make beserk even more useless than it is (basicly only used for jump defense, although that can be also achieved by aircharge) then why the hell do we even need it? Beserk only promotes aggro-play and smokegranade-spamming anyway.

Quote from: Meister_Neo on January 10, 2012, 04:41:28 PM
lol, with these points let's remove beserk COMPLETLY. Because if its good player vs good player, then beserk will not be used anyway.

Instead i think the normal elbow hit should be modified, to make it as efficient as the spies' elbow hit. I mean spies can always "spam" the shift button to get a succesful elbow, while mercs' elbow can only be tried once and because of laags etc. it is almost impossible to hit the hitbox at the right time. So either make elbow the same for the mercs, as it is for the spies, or do it the other way around and make spies' elbow hit like the merc one.

But if you just make beserk even more useless than it is (basicly only used for jump defense, although that can be also achieved by aircharge) then why the hell do we even need it? Beserk only promotes aggro-play and smokegranade-spamming anyway.

Very bad assumption you seem to forget this isn't ubisofts netcode here,  don't forget who wrote the connection tweak guide from the sclamer froums ;) , Mr.mic being primarly one of em :D

Quote from: AgentX_003 on January 10, 2012, 07:27:02 PM

Quote from: Meister_Neo on January 10, 2012, 04:41:28 PM
lol, with these points let's remove beserk COMPLETLY. Because if its good player vs good player, then beserk will not be used anyway.

Instead i think the normal elbow hit should be modified, to make it as efficient as the spies' elbow hit. I mean spies can always "spam" the shift button to get a succesful elbow, while mercs' elbow can only be tried once and because of laags etc. it is almost impossible to hit the hitbox at the right time. So either make elbow the same for the mercs, as it is for the spies, or do it the other way around and make spies' elbow hit like the merc one.

But if you just make beserk even more useless than it is (basicly only used for jump defense, although that can be also achieved by aircharge) then why the hell do we even need it? Beserk only promotes aggro-play and smokegranade-spamming anyway.

Very bad assumption you seem to forget this isn't ubisofts netcode here,  don't forget who wrote the connection tweak guide from the sclamer froums ;) , Mr.mic being primarly one of em :D

You are right there, it isn't Ubisoft's code, in fact there isn't anyones code at all.

Quote from: DreadStunlock on January 10, 2012, 08:09:44 PM
You are right there, it isn't Ubisoft's code, in fact there isn't anyones code at all.

Farley switch on sarcasm detecting senses and scan the post above...

Quote from: DreadStunlock on January 10, 2012, 08:09:44 PM

Quote from: AgentX_003 on January 10, 2012, 07:27:02 PM

Quote from: Meister_Neo on January 10, 2012, 04:41:28 PM
lol, with these points let's remove beserk COMPLETLY. Because if its good player vs good player, then beserk will not be used anyway.

Instead i think the normal elbow hit should be modified, to make it as efficient as the spies' elbow hit. I mean spies can always "spam" the shift button to get a succesful elbow, while mercs' elbow can only be tried once and because of laags etc. it is almost impossible to hit the hitbox at the right time. So either make elbow the same for the mercs, as it is for the spies, or do it the other way around and make spies' elbow hit like the merc one.

But if you just make beserk even more useless than it is (basicly only used for jump defense, although that can be also achieved by aircharge) then why the hell do we even need it? Beserk only promotes aggro-play and smokegranade-spamming anyway.

Very bad assumption you seem to forget this isn't ubisofts netcode here,  don't forget who wrote the connection tweak guide from the sclamer froums ;) , Mr.mic being primarly one of em :D

You are right there, it isn't Ubisoft's code, in fact there isn't anyones code at all.

discombobulated one, my point was the fact that the way he was referencing the hitboxs and still talking about chaostheory rather then Project stealth , sigh I shouldn't have to explain this but obviously I do so it seems <_< .

Quote from: AgentX_003 on January 10, 2012, 07:27:02 PM
Very bad assumption you seem to forget this isn't ubisofts netcode here,  don't forget who wrote the connection tweak guide from the sclamer froums ;) , Mr.mic being primarly one of em :D

The problem with the merc elbow in CT is that if you start it when you're not in range then you have to wait until the animation is finished to try again. The fuck does that have to do with netcode?

Or is this another one of those Agent failing at internet things like the time you claimed that I wouldn't get lag on an American server in L4D because it's a Steam game?

Oh come on you guys! Your answer are so full of hatred. It's new year, we forget the difficulties of the past, bad experiences and so on. It's time to reborn (I already await an answer in a pic).

here's a happy picture of love and happiness then since you want one so much.
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg337.imageshack.us%2Fimg337%2F2290%2F1277620673232.jpg&hash=76784342d358c525f119b5f187cd1a85486da4c1)


2d love still counts, right?

Yyyyy... No...(Hate Anime) But this pic looks as tho you took your time and took it in your bedroom. The afford you made has already been noticed by me and taken into consideration as your sacrifice for me. (it's quite early here, not thinking straight if above does not make sense then... ZzzzzZZZzzz.

Quote from: Spark Mandriller on January 11, 2012, 03:20:30 AM
here's a happy picture of love and happiness then since you want one so much.
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg337.imageshack.us%2Fimg337%2F2290%2F1277620673232.jpg&hash=76784342d358c525f119b5f187cd1a85486da4c1)


2d love still counts, right?

SOLD! If you add cat ears and a tail. And boobs.

QuoteBecause if its good player vs good player, then beserk will not be used anyway.

Why not? Using berserk --> jump ---> berserk --> jump repeatedly essentially makes you immune to being grabbed if the spies try to double team you.

Also, while you claim the bullcharge is useless, it's one of the most used moves in the game.

I second that.

This thing never worked and I mean bullcharge and jump immune thing. If you played against cooping spies you either got finally to the wall or you bullcharged one of the spies and got grabbed. So it wasn't that simple, maybe against noobs(not that I am a pro but it simply didn't work so good)

Quote from: Spekkio on January 11, 2012, 03:51:56 PM

QuoteBecause if its good player vs good player, then beserk will not be used anyway.

Why not? Using berserk --> jump ---> berserk --> jump repeatedly essentially makes you immune to being grabbed if the spies try to double team you.

Also, while you claim the bullcharge is useless, it's one of the most used moves in the game.

i ment beserk WITHOUT jump immunity, as it is planned for project stealth!