****New Spy Gadget Idea ****

[Kurbutti]

Foook jo.... Wait, did you say it was possible? Oh. That's great news.

[ChickenSkin]

-camnet allows you to link into any security cam and to move it freely.

This is the only thing I dont like. Do you mean static cameras aswell? It would make it very hard for spies to get around, and the mercs would be able to cover too much level space IMO. Think about how many cameras there are on the current maps. Alot. By making these freely movable, youd have coverage of practically the whole map. Atleast by making them uncontrollable, spies will know when to move based on the camera position, and there will always be blind spots so long the cameras are uncontrolled (ie you can sneak past when its not facing your direction/the direction you want to travel). If they were controlled, they would be way to unpredictable, and make the spies jobs hard to get around (stealthily ofcourse) they already have enough trouble avoiding two mercenaries, let alone the unpredictable cams. Everything else seems fine though Rambo. Thanks for coming up with some extra ideas and stuff :].

PS: Oh and great news about it all being possible.

[frvge]

Of course. We're working hard and we're getting some cool results. Which is why the next sneakpeek for the DC-thread will be so kickass. ;)

[Gawain]

that are nice news, frvge. even if it doesn't make it as a solid gameplay-element, it will be really fancy to see live pictures on the monitors =)

[Spekkio]

I honestly don't find the ability to look through passive cams very valuable. Why would you want to manually control something that the computer does just fine? That's like adding a key combination to reload your weapon vice just pressing R and letting the game do it for you.

Snakebit, I think Frvge's solution does tackle the problem with camnet. Good players are extremely efficient with camnet -- in about 1-2 seconds, you can pretty much scan the entire map and be back to hunting. If you add a delay somewhere, either in initial activation/deactivation or even with cycling through each camera, you can nerf it quite a bit. It will still be stupidly imbalanced due to being able to get a bird's eye view of spies without making yourself too vulnerable, but the current counter to that will be exaggerated more.

[Gawain]

well, the cams have only a quite small detection cone and move in predictable patterns, so with this method you could get a stealth player trying to sneak past it or see where there are security failures (and where not). depending on the amount and placement of cams on the map this might be enough to make it worth a slot, and if not, what's the big deal?

[Kurbutti]

If you look at the passive security camera's placements in CT, you'll notice that they're almost unexceptionally angled in a way that directly doesn't prevent you from sneaking past them. They merely forge some set route that you gotta follow if you don't want to disable them straight away - as does camnet, so they're mere obstacles, unless cameras are protecting an objective. Ok, ok, I KNOW, you can't kill camnet.

So I honestly can't think of any better solution to balance camnet except to allow the ability to look through regular security cams, replacing them. Take factory's corridor C as an example. Any good spy can bunnyhop past the camears there and access MR without causing an alarm. The only reason why the camnet is there is that you can look for some bunnies. Cameras there aren't doing anything just fine.

[Spekkio]

If you look at the passive security camera's placements in CT, you'll notice that they're almost unexceptionally angled in a way that directly doesn't prevent you from sneaking past them. They merely forge some set route that you gotta follow if you don't want to disable them straight away - as does camnet, so they're mere obstacles, unless cameras are protecting an objective. Ok, ok, I KNOW, you can't kill camnet.

So I honestly can't think of any better solution to balance camnet except to allow the ability to look through regular security cams, replacing them. Take factory's corridor C as an example. Any good spy can bunnyhop past the camears there and access MR without causing an alarm. The only reason why the camnet is there is that you can look for some bunnies. Cameras there aren't doing anything just fine.

This is why you have mines and spy traps to supplement the defense that is already present in the map.

[Kurbutti]

This is why you have mines and spy traps to supplement the defense that is already present in the map.

Are we talking about an optimal scenario, or just arguing if it's feasible to spend all your equipment in order to make up for the useless security?

[Spekkio]

First of all, the security isn't useless. If you come by while "bunnies" are in the corridors, those bunnies are probably going to trip a camera and lockdown the objectives for 20 seconds. Problem is that most maps don't have enough cameras and/or lasers for these bunnies to trip, so they can just run around in circles tap-hacking things until they get something.

Secondly, the security in a map isn't meant to be this dungeon of doom that is impossible to get passed while no one is watching. It's meant to support the merc's patrolling.

Thirdly, using spy traps and/or mines boost the power of the security already there, without the downside of having to stop and become completely unaware of your surroundings.

I know that's a foreign concept to a lot of people because almost no one takes spy traps, but there is a way to guard maps without camnet or double backpack.

When presented between looking through a camera that is already there and will lock objectives if tripped, or being able to place more stuff to track and kill the spy, I can't see why anyone would choose the former.

[Gawain]

with eax superhearing gone and with hopefully a little more passive security, it will be way harder to tell where a security failure was caused, so linking into the security network might come in handy.
also, it doesn't give you too few information. let's take factory as an example: i'd use a gadget like the suggested one because it would let me observe 2 coop spots and 3 out of 4 main connections between the big rooms.
if linking into the cams isn't enough to make it an attractive gadget to some players, maybe this camnet-replacement should also allow linking to other passive security elements or even allow some control of lockdown-doors and other interactive map elements.

[Ion.67]

I use spytraps all the time. I don't care how well it works, it really makes the game that I want to play, setting up and guarding stuff. If that makes sense.

[ChickenSkin]

I honestly dont find the ability to look through passive cams very valuable. Why would you want to manually control something that the computer does just fine? Thats like adding a key combination to reload your weapon vice just pressing R and letting the game do it for you.

Im going to have to kindly disagree on this one. Whilst the game does it OK, I still think this could be beneficial to the merc. For example, the cameras will not be able to detect spies outside of a certain radius, however its possible that the spies can still be seen through the camera, just too far away to be detected. As a mercenary, the game doesnt tell you which camera has been triggered either, not through some sort of HUD alert. It only does this on the spy side iirc.

[Gawain]

in case of an alarm it tells both sides the exact location, but in case of a security failure the mercs get only an universal message.

[ChickenSkin]

in case of an alarm it tells both sides the exact location, but in case of a security failure the mercs get only an universal message.

Oh sorry, its been a few yrs since i played it.