****New Spy Gadget Idea ****

[Spekkio]

the core of the problem is that it's so easy to see spytraps that in 90% of the games no good player runs into any by accident, and if he's pressured to run into any, he always knows. it's also a problem that with chaff working through walls, most spytrap places suck as they can be bypassed in a matter of seconds. mutual removal isn't that strong unless you go harvesting which would be prevented by less visibility and not tagging a tagged spy. if one spy runs into a trap and wants to remove it, he has to waste about 20-30 seconds in average and tell the mercs the location of his mate, too, so that's balanced.

I strongly disagree.

As do I.

On top of that, even if they are noticeable, the effectiveness of making the spy take another route is gone. "I saws a spy trap! *Runs through it, runs to partner, spy trap off.*" Repeat as necessary until all traps are gone in the first two minutes of the round.

2) When a trap has been tripped, all other spy traps become indestructible for the tagged spy for the duration of the tag. No removal can be done, as there can be only one tag at a time/spy.

The benefits of this solution over yours would be the elimated profit from running around and getting rid of the other traps, because they can't be tripped/removed. Granted, stacking puts spies in a considerable disadvantage but you would still risk losing all the traps in the process. Furthermore, keep in mind that after tripping one trap the spy is most likely inside the premiter; this usually means that the other traps can be disabled with SS and they may not block paths once within the corridors.

It'd be interesting to explore other options. My issue with this idea is it might be confusing and/or frustrating when you trip a spy trap unknowingly and don't know why you can't shoot out the one you do see.

[Gawain]

spekkio/kurbutti: why do you disagree?

[Spekkio]

spekkio/kurbutti: why do you disagree?

Perhaps if you actually used spy traps and spy bullets, you'd already know why your diagnosis of the problem is way off. Seriously, you need to stfu about this topic until you decide to use this stuff more.

[Kurbutti]

2) When a trap has been tripped, all other spy traps become indestructible for the tagged spy for the duration of the tag. No removal can be done, as there can be only one tag at a time/spy.

The benefits of this solution over yours would be the elimated profit from running around and getting rid of the other traps, because they can't be tripped/removed. Granted, stacking puts spies in a considerable disadvantage but you would still risk losing all the traps in the process. Furthermore, keep in mind that after tripping one trap the spy is most likely inside the premiter; this usually means that the other traps can be disabled with SS and they may not block paths once within the corridors.

It'd be interesting to explore other options. My issue with this idea is it might be confusing and/or frustrating when you trip a spy trap unknowingly and don't know why you can't shoot out the one you do see.

True, although I've rarely made it that far under those circumstances. Mercs coming my way with blues on is usually enough to cause this "Shit, I think I'm spytrapped!" -feeling, ha. I admit that this might become more visible during chases, but I'd trust people would eventually learn to deal with this disability. In the end, you are given a chance to memorize their locations that can be a potential help in late game.

Also,  we could make spytraps notify the spy upon detection like PD does.

spekkio/kurbutti: why do you disagree?

It's hard to argue for my point if I don't know exactly upon which setting you place your scenario. Anyway, I'm too tired right now to come up with any readable content, but I'll reply for you later on.

[Spekkio]

Also,  we could make spytraps notify the spy upon detection like PD does.

Nah, part of their goodness is that the spy will never know he hit it.

[ChickenSkin]

Also,  we could make spytraps notify the spy upon detection like PD does.

Nah, part of their goodness is that the spy will never know he hit it.

Agreed. If a spy knew he has just been trapped, he will just camp until it stops tracking him. The main problem is spytraps are just too easy to see. If you make the picture quality of thermal worse and lower the opacity of the spybullet laser, maybe add some motion blur to the thermal vision so that its near impossible to see a trap in thermal vision when running you would probably see a lot more players getting trapped.

[Spekkio]

That is NOT the main problem. Jeez.

[Gawain]

i may not have much experience with them as a merc, but i do have enough on the spy side to know that their whole use in ct against good players is blocking off some paths that you can count on one hand due to their incredible long range. it's definitely not tracking spies because no1 runs into them in the first place if he can see them from 100m distance instantly. i also know that in many places their use overlaps with poison mines which is also a bad thing (but spytraps aren't to blame for that; the existence of poison mines is).

[Westfall]

i may not have much experience with them as a merc, but i do have enough on the spy side to know that their whole use in ct against good players is blocking off some paths that you can count on one hand due to their incredible long range. it's definitely not tracking spies because no1 runs into them in the first place if he can see them from 100m distance instantly. i also know that in many places their use overlaps with poison mines which is also a bad thing (but spytraps aren't to blame for that; the existence of poison mines is).

The path can be opened for later use if the "good players" are sticking together...one walks through and the other takes it off. BAM, path opened for later use.

[ChickenSkin]

That is NOT the main problem. Jeez.

Its definately one of them.

If you are all getting pissed because spies are purposely getting trapped then having their partner take it off instantly, then why not just make them irremovable? (As in partners cant take them off, not you cant remove them from the walls) If you run into a trap you should have to deal with the consequences. There are plenty of ways to avoid them already, like diving under/over them, chaffing or shooting them. So what if chaffs dont work through walls, you can always just shoot one round the corner. There is really no excuse for a spy to get trapped (unless forced in a redhotaction gun chase).

[Spekkio]

Because then you make the game rely too much on having chaff. Having a takeoff, but one that's limited, allows the spies to get through traps if they absolutely must.

Also, a sneaky spy isn't going to have thermal on 100% of the time because he shows up on EMF. But given the most recent metagame of just running around constantly, yes you can keep thermal on most of the time.

[ChickenSkin]

Because then you make the game rely too much on having chaff. Having a takeoff, but one that\\\'s limited, allows the spies to get through traps if they absolutely must.

Also, a sneaky spy isn\\\'t going to have thermal on 100% of the time because he shows up on EMF. But given the most recent metagame of just running around constantly, yes you can keep thermal on most of the time.

Ah yeh good point.

What about somesort of time barrier, say you have to be tagged for 30 seconds before it can be removed. Once tagged you cant get retagged, until the other tag has expired?

[Gawain]

The path can be opened for later use if the "good players" are sticking together...one walks through and the other takes it off. BAM, path opened for later use.

that's not my point. my point is that blocking paths isn't the purpose of spytraps, it's tracking spies. if you wanna block a pathway, you should use mines.

Because then you make the game rely too much on having chaff. Having a takeoff, but one that's limited, allows the spies to get through traps if they absolutely must.

that's why i'd boost spytraps not by amount, but by less visibility. if you simply increase the amount you block even more pathways enforcing either a gadget counter game with chaff or more mutual removing or even harvesting.

Also, a sneaky spy isn't going to have thermal on 100% of the time because he shows up on EMF. But given the most recent metagame of just running around constantly, yes you can keep thermal on most of the time.

it makes no difference if you switch on thermal for 1s or all the time as you can instantly see every trap within 50m...

why not just make them irremovable?

that would actually be the best solution as meeting up already grants you the big advantage of instantly healing each other, countering poison and evening out your eq loadout. to make up for this, i'd lower the spytraps timer a little bit.

[Snakebit.]

SvM and PS are are Steath Action games (note action is there too ) . If you make EVERY detection device lock objectives than aggro would become almost non existent because well runing around won't be that good anymore . taz-hack-run would be very hard to do or impossible because there are usually many sensors + cams near objectives and on your way there . If you remove aggro than what will remain of the game ? Full stealth ????? Is full stealth that good ? I actually don't think so . A merc waiting for spies for 5-6 min is BORING ... very boring .... Thats why the game has to have SOME action elements in it . Direct incouters are neccecary .


Spy traps are balanced at the moment in ct . I think . 1st of all you can refill them with backpack . 2nd : You can not only place spy traps but also alarm snairs which in different places have a lot of uses . A lot of people forget about alarm snairs in the game but they are actually useful. Don't say that the loud sound makes it eazy to find them , because it dosen't if it's well planted + it makes the spy waste a lot of time looking for them and trying to not get spoted by them during which he can be easily spoted by a merc . 


Spy bullets are also okay in ct . Well you can fix the bug that dosen't allow to see merc for some people [ I never had this bug in like.... all the time i played ] . I always use spy bullets when i play as a spy and i don't have any problems usually . Ofcourse they will run out eventually but still i think that 5 is the optimal ammount for 4 lives . If you aggro it is obviouse you gonna run out of equipment + If you stealth and put a spy bullet on every corner ofcourse you gonna run out of them. It is not how you supposed to use them . Either stick them to a place where mercs always run around / or stick it on them.  5 * 1. 30 - 7.30......



If you make endless amount of spy bullits or make their time endless then it will be impossible for merc to hide from them.... There are literally 100000000 places to plant them and some of them are UNSHOOTABLE by the merc. So they must have a time limit and an amount to prevent the spy from just seeing all map.


Edit : If you make spy bullet stay on a merc for 1.30 without the means to remove it than it will become very imbalanced . HBS allows you to see the spy in well 15 meter range but in no means it allows you to see the merc everywhere on the map . If the spy bullet becomes unremovable than you will be able to see BOTH mercs ALL the game which is IMBALANCED ? each life has 5 bullets thats 7.30 mins 7.30*4 = 30 min ? / 2 = 15 min each merc

[Westfall]

I think the gist of the idea was to make spy bullets non-removable if they are on a merc.