CRD Vision

[LennardF1989]

i'm agreeing with vega, spekkio and invisibleman mostly on this whole bs ideas.

Could you clarify why you think ideas are "bs" (ideas are never "bs", since they are, well, ideas)?

Is it because PT/CT/DA didn't have it?
Is it because you think it will imbalance the game?*
Or is it because you don't like additional effects? And if so, why don't you like some blood effect in particular (now knowing it isn't because it might imbalance the game)?

If you choose 1 or 2, then I will say it another time: Don't bother thinking about whats PT/CT/DA had and what might imbalance the game, thats our (the teams) job. And it gives us another reason not to make everything we do public ;D

If you choose 3, it must be one hell of a good argument ;D

* You can't know before you tried it.

[MR.Mic]

i'm agreeing with vega, spekkio and invisibleman mostly on this whole bs ideas.

Could you clarify why you think ideas are "bs" (ideas are never "bs", since they are, well, ideas)?

In that case, lets make mercs have a giant dildo as a weapon, like in GTA.
It was so funny in that game and after all...

* You can't know before you tried it.

Nah, this vision is a really dumb and poorly thought-out feature.

[LennardF1989]

I was talking about the blood effect Mr.Mic, for some reason it hijacked the topic.

i'm agreeing with vega, spekkio and invisibleman mostly on this whole bs ideas.

Could you clarify why you think ideas are "bs" (ideas are never "bs", since they are, well, ideas)?

In that case, lets make mercs have a giant dildo as a weapon, like in GTA.
It was so funny in that game and after all...

As stupid as it may sound, it is an idea, unfortunately, too far off our aim what the game should be like :P But it may do good as an X-mas special xD

[MR.Mic]

Ideas can be bad, simple as that.

[Vega]

Lennard, I don't think the best solution to dealing with proposed ideas should be looked at as "well you don't know if you haven't tried it out."  If the game is going to be like CT, which it appears to be, then withholding PT/CT/DA experience would be silly, wouldn't it?

As for this statement:

If you choose 1 or 2, then I will say it another time: Don't bother thinking about whats PT/CT/DA had and what might imbalance the game, thats our (the teams) job.

Yes, I understand that there are more things going behind the scenes that I(we) don't know about, but then why ask us to develop ideas for this game if we cannot comment on their theoretical usefulness, practicality, and state of balance?  Quite frankly, I find some users on here to have superior knowledge involving the mechanics behind CT; that they understand the game so well that their voices should not be silenced and left solely for "the team" to decide on.

[LennardF1989]

Lennard, I don't think the best solution to dealing with proposed ideas should be looked at as "well you don't know if you haven't tried it out."  If the game is going to be like CT, which it appears to be, then withholding PT/CT/DA experience would be silly, wouldn't it?

As for this statement:

If you choose 1 or 2, then I will say it another time: Don't bother thinking about whats PT/CT/DA had and what might imbalance the game, thats our (the teams) job.

Yes, I understand that there are more things going behind the scenes that I(we) don't know about, but then why ask us to develop ideas for this game if we cannot comment on their theoretical usefulness, practicality, and state of balance?  Quite frankly, I find some users on here to have superior knowledge involving the mechanics behind CT; that they understand the game so well that their voices should not be silenced and left solely for "the team" to decide on.

Yea, but it still seems to me that like half the people speaking still think we are just making a copy of CT and should leave it that way, which is NOT true.

Yes, the game shows some similarities to CT and other Versus games (it's Mercenary versus Spy, while WWII games are always Axis versus Allies), but that's not our aim.

Our aim is to not make the game compareable with versus (at least on quite some fronts). Adding new visions and gadgets besides the stock ones or even nice blood effects is our way to do that. Afterall, we DO NOT want yet another versus game, but a game that feels like we made it, not Ubisoft.

Just a general note: If people, after the above post, still just want another CT without bugs, then please move on, it's not going to happen. Our game will be soo much better and if you can't live with that, there's always the nice Ubisoft moderators waiting for you here: http://forums.ubi.com

[Vega]

Where did I say I want another CT without bugs?  Remember last time I brought that up?  That was when you had a little outburst.  I'm sure you guys are trying to make this game as different as possible, but please, the current gadget models and their descriptions are exact replicas in execution as they were in CT.  This will be a different game, but you're saying "we're going to add gadgets onto the stock ones" as if the stock ones are what every Spy vs. Mercenary game uses.  As far as I know, PT/CT/DA are the only legitimate Spy vs. Mercenary games out there.  It's great that you're making this game different from CT, but stop acting like experience from CT is useless.

[LennardF1989]

The gadgets we have now are part of the experience, leaving those out because other Versus games had them will make you guys go crazy (that would be the same as leaving out the usual WWII weapons in a WWII FPS just because CoD had them). You can consider them stock just like almost every FPS has a machine gun.

But even though those are stock, that doesn't mean we can't adjust them or even add new ones (for example: a silent proxy mine, its a little bit different than it's presuccessor, yet, has other downsides). I really liked the TF2 idea, where unlocked weapons aren't better, but just add a different kind of gameplay.

I never said you (in particular) wanted just another CT without bugs, it's just the feeling I get when most of the community members are trying to prevent new gadgets to reach the game (seriously, has there ever been a gadget that the whole community agreed on it should be in the game, besides Phosphorous?).

Ofcourse CT experience (ideawise) isn't bad, but the hundreds of hours spent in CT won't help you to play PS better than everyone else in the beginning, as I said, it will be different.

EDIT:
Going on with the gadget/vision/effect thing. Most community members are acting out of precaution not to get gadgets/whatever into the game just because it might imbalance the game or adds gameplay you guys don't wish to have.

Don't get me wrong, but I won't mind to program some proposed gadgets/stuff (or even leave them in the beta) so we (the team/or you guys in the beta) can test it and see how it works out (unless you come with MR.MICs dildo idea ofcourse).

If something is bullshit, it's the precaution thing I just described and it actually pissed me off and most of all demotivates people to post gadget/vision/effect ideas (numerous of people contact me through XFire about ideas just because the fact they know some community members are going to burn the ideas to the ground and other members will follow like sheeps).

Perhaps you understand my point of view a little better now.

[Blank Man]

no

[ChickenSkin]

Thing is, peoples thought process is all wrong.

The thought process of the average noob:

Cool new gadget Idea > Desperately trying to find ways they could implement there awesome gadget.

Instead of:

What things needs to be improved for PS > Cool new gadget Idea.

People also need to stop defending there own gadget ideas to death. It will save everybody a lot of time and seperate the wheat from the chaff.

[Spekkio]

Another thing that makes the vision bad is that the spy has to stand still to avoid it. That's partly why MT sucks so much in PT/CT...the only way to avoid tripping it really is to not move.

[Gawain]

lennard, the main goal of this mod was and hopefully still is to get a bug free and better balanced clone (yes i'm speaking out this word of evil) of ct running before experimenting with anything else. there's absolutely no need for more gadgets and other crap because balancing the existing ones will increase gameplay variety immensely (ct was that broken that 3/4 merc gadgets were mandatory). no1 says you guys can't/shouldn't experiment with new gadgets, gamemodes etc in some years, but for now that clearly shoudln't be the goal. if you don't agree with that you joined the wrong project.

[LennardF1989]

Plans change. Even though it's never been the plan to clone CT, only to use it as an example (just like every copied the FPS gameplay from DOOM).

Trust me, the beta won't be just a bugfree clone of CT, it will have more, wether you like it or not.

We do this project in our spare time and we didn't join just to make a copy of an existing game, that's just lame and a waist of my time (for Pete's sake, just play CT if you want CT and don't care about bugs).

Besides, I've never been told to make a copy (from day 1), only to make the controls similair to CT and add some similarities. I mean, the whole EE system on it's own will already be totally different than that of CT (way more possibilities).

If you ask me, you can expect different gametypes in the beta (not just DM, Story and Diskhunt) along with new weapons/gadgets/visions similair to the TF2 idea. I can also assure you you're going to like it, even though you may think otherwise now. There is a whole team behind me of which each loves Versus as much as you do, don't forget that.

Just because there is only CT (and pre-successors) on the market to compare a SAM game with doesn't mean our (and my) game should be like that. And if you don't like that, you're supporting the wrong project.

[frvge]

^ are Lennard's personal ideas and do not necessarily agree with the whole Team's ideas after majority voting. ;)

[LennardF1989]

^ are Lennard's personal ideas and do not necessarily agree with the whole Team's ideas after majority voting. ;)

Exactly, every idea get's an internal vote. Like I said: "There is a whole team behind me of which each loves Versus as much as you do, don't forget that."

Ofcourse, most things won't be implemented before we have some kind of framework standing (which basically is the CT idea). On top of that, we'll add our own ideas.

I just mean to say, if you're expecting that we will give you an 1:1 balanced bugfree copy of CT, you're at the wrong place. If you want just that, go setup "Stealth Project" and make it your own.