How do you think PS would play if the spy had a pistol?

[NeoSuperior]

oh sry... i am talking about DM (TSJ) here of course, but this NEVER happens (to me at least  ;D) when i am host  :o

[DreadStunLock]

Why would you care about DM TSJ? Though PS could make something nice when you have 3 players....A better version of DM TSJ...

[Spekkio]

Well don't you think if you get grabbed because they do that....is kind of noobish?

Well in CT it were HKs... but still it's just bullshit if 2 spies gang up on 1 merc... 1 spy bashes the merc, the other spy grabs the merc without any possible defense against it... and now you want to give the spy a pistol... you guys are crazy  :o (no offence)

Also in CT the game was already hard to play if ping was  >120... because snipes and shoots were delayed too much...

You were always able to jump or berserk before being grabbed in this situation.

[Spekkio]

Spies as far as I know get refil for their ineptitude, and if this idea of a lethal fire arm being implemented by any chance, spies will be no different.

Also mercenaries ineptitude refil is also strategic not just, HEADsGShoT MEh PLoX with cross hatched eyes and a tongue on the floor.

Yep, I also don't think spies should get a refill for being killed. However, it's easier to kill a spy than a merc given the two sides' equipment, so one could make a valid argument why the spies should get a refill.

[DreadStunLock]

Is that a joke? You will never win against anyone with 5 gadgets of each type you selected especially as a spy. You just basically bringing back the worst of SCCT DM and DA versus...

[NeoSuperior]

You were always able to jump or berserk before being grabbed in this situation.

Not if the grabber is the host... seriously... i tried what you said but i was "airgrabbed" etc.

---


ontopic:

how about this:
Mercs and spies can refill their EQ (GM included) in their (for the enemies) unreachable spawns, but refilling should take 15-30 secs, so that spies would lose much time and mercs have to leave the objectives vulnerable.

[DreadStunLock]

Good concept, but I think it should take like 5 seconds for each gadget to refil by 1, and whichever you have selected, so if you have 0 flashbangs, you select them and refil it 1 by 1, so it will take you something like 25 seconds, and same for others.

[Ion.67]

It is a video game standard to bring back equipment when you die. You have 4 chances to get through the game, and if you don't make it with those chances, you are done. Each new life is a new chance.

I don't even think their should be gadget refills on the map at all. You die: you get new gadgets. Sure, the merc gets new grenades, but you get quite a few seconds of freedom. He has to respawn, run across the map, and relocate you.

If you kill a spy, he gets new equipment, loses 15+ seconds, and has a lone partner on the map. He gets lose 5 flashes back, but he may not have used ANY flashes in his last life. No gain. In this way, the spy has to judge the situations where gadget use would benefit him, and make sure not to run out before he dies. If he does, he dun went and fucked up. If he doesn't use any and dies, the same scenario is in play.

Having gadget refill locations adds another chokepoint to the map, and it has a bigger problem: the spy will be going there because he is low on gadgets. Spies are not equipped to handle a merc very well with no gadgets, and it makes the whole process a waste. If the merc knows one spy is out of gadgets, he can camp easily, knowing he won't be getting cammed by him. If the merc needs a refill, but is out of gasmask, the spy could easily trap him with a series of cams, leaving the other spy to attack that mercs area easily.

Of course there are numerous counters to this problem, but the key is that those counters are to fix problems that would otherwise not be present. The only problems from instant refills on death are countered by the death time. Maybe it should be even longer to make dying a penalty instead of (as your side would say) a reward.

Refill boxes are not the way to go.

[VaNilla]

The other thing is people who cite realism as a reason for having it... since when was respawning realistic? It should bring back everything, stupid to have it do otherwise.

[DreadStunLock]

OBJECTION!

Respawn is real! So is lag!

<Looks at Jesus>

[Spekkio]

It is a video game standard to bring back equipment when you die. You have 4 chances to get through the game, and if you don't make it with those chances, you are done. Each new life is a new chance.

I don't even think their should be gadget refills on the map at all. You die: you get new gadgets. Sure, the merc gets new grenades, but you get quite a few seconds of freedom. He has to respawn, run across the map, and relocate you.

If you kill a spy, he gets new equipment, loses 15+ seconds, and has a lone partner on the map. He gets lose 5 flashes back, but he may not have used ANY flashes in his last life. No gain. In this way, the spy has to judge the situations where gadget use would benefit him, and make sure not to run out before he dies. If he does, he dun went and fucked up. If he doesn't use any and dies, the same scenario is in play.

Having gadget refill locations adds another chokepoint to the map, and it has a bigger problem: the spy will be going there because he is low on gadgets. Spies are not equipped to handle a merc very well with no gadgets, and it makes the whole process a waste. If the merc knows one spy is out of gadgets, he can camp easily, knowing he won't be getting cammed by him. If the merc needs a refill, but is out of gasmask, the spy could easily trap him with a series of cams, leaving the other spy to attack that mercs area easily.

Of course there are numerous counters to this problem, but the key is that those counters are to fix problems that would otherwise not be present. The only problems from instant refills on death are countered by the death time. Maybe it should be even longer to make dying a penalty instead of (as your side would say) a reward.

Refill boxes are not the way to go.

Refilling equipment is a standard for FPS games where you die frequently, and the game continues until time runs out or someone gets X kills. SvM isn't like other video games, so comparing it to a standard where there are no other games in the genre is disengenuous.

Other games typically don't develop into a situation where there is effectively 1/3 of the map available for play because of objectives being taken. My argument has nothing to do with realism and everything to do with the fact that gameplay in SvM, as it stands now, boils down to 1 chance. It doesn't really matter how many lives you have left, you only have 1 opportunity to win because after that, you have 6 mines and up to 6 spy traps with camnet and 8-16 nades to deal with. If you screw up your 1 rush after a neck, then you lose. If mercs didn't get a refill on death, it adds a new element of strategy to the game...do I deploy my mines/spytraps/nades early, or do I wait to clamp down later in the game?

[CougarC.A.T.]

It is a video game standard to bring back equipment when you die. You have 4 chances to get through the game, and if you don't make it with those chances, you are done. Each new life is a new chance.

I don't even think their should be gadget refills on the map at all. You die: you get new gadgets. Sure, the merc gets new grenades, but you get quite a few seconds of freedom. He has to respawn, run across the map, and relocate you.

If you kill a spy, he gets new equipment, loses 15+ seconds, and has a lone partner on the map. He gets lose 5 flashes back, but he may not have used ANY flashes in his last life. No gain. In this way, the spy has to judge the situations where gadget use would benefit him, and make sure not to run out before he dies. If he does, he dun went and fucked up. If he doesn't use any and dies, the same scenario is in play.

Having gadget refill locations adds another chokepoint to the map, and it has a bigger problem: the spy will be going there because he is low on gadgets. Spies are not equipped to handle a merc very well with no gadgets, and it makes the whole process a waste. If the merc knows one spy is out of gadgets, he can camp easily, knowing he won't be getting cammed by him. If the merc needs a refill, but is out of gasmask, the spy could easily trap him with a series of cams, leaving the other spy to attack that mercs area easily.

Of course there are numerous counters to this problem, but the key is that those counters are to fix problems that would otherwise not be present. The only problems from instant refills on death are countered by the death time. Maybe it should be even longer to make dying a penalty instead of (as your side would say) a reward.

Refill boxes are not the way to go.

Refilling equipment is a standard for FPS games where you die frequently, and the game continues until time runs out or someone gets X kills. SvM isn't like other video games, so comparing it to a standard where there are no other games in the genre is disengenuous.

Other games typically don't develop into a situation where there is effectively 1/3 of the map available for play because of objectives being taken. My argument has nothing to do with realism and everything to do with the fact that gameplay in SvM, as it stands now, boils down to 1 chance. It doesn't really matter how many lives you have left, you only have 1 opportunity to win because after that, you have 6 mines and up to 6 spy traps with camnet and 8-16 nades to deal with. If you screw up your 1 rush after a neck, then you lose. If mercs didn't get a refill on death, it adds a new element of strategy to the game...do I deploy my mines/spytraps/nades early, or do I wait to clamp down later in the game?

It would add a whole new element of strategy to the game. Would this only be limited to mercs not refilling after death?

[Ion.67]

It is a video game standard to bring back equipment when you die. You have 4 chances to get through the game, and if you don't make it with those chances, you are done. Each new life is a new chance.

I don't even think their should be gadget refills on the map at all. You die: you get new gadgets. Sure, the merc gets new grenades, but you get quite a few seconds of freedom. He has to respawn, run across the map, and relocate you.

If you kill a spy, he gets new equipment, loses 15+ seconds, and has a lone partner on the map. He gets lose 5 flashes back, but he may not have used ANY flashes in his last life. No gain. In this way, the spy has to judge the situations where gadget use would benefit him, and make sure not to run out before he dies. If he does, he dun went and fucked up. If he doesn't use any and dies, the same scenario is in play.

Having gadget refill locations adds another chokepoint to the map, and it has a bigger problem: the spy will be going there because he is low on gadgets. Spies are not equipped to handle a merc very well with no gadgets, and it makes the whole process a waste. If the merc knows one spy is out of gadgets, he can camp easily, knowing he won't be getting cammed by him. If the merc needs a refill, but is out of gasmask, the spy could easily trap him with a series of cams, leaving the other spy to attack that mercs area easily.

Of course there are numerous counters to this problem, but the key is that those counters are to fix problems that would otherwise not be present. The only problems from instant refills on death are countered by the death time. Maybe it should be even longer to make dying a penalty instead of (as your side would say) a reward.

Refill boxes are not the way to go.

Refilling equipment is a standard for FPS games where you die frequently, and the game continues until time runs out or someone gets X kills. SvM isn't like other video games, so comparing it to a standard where there are no other games in the genre is disengenuous.

Other games typically don't develop into a situation where there is effectively 1/3 of the map available for play because of objectives being taken. My argument has nothing to do with realism and everything to do with the fact that gameplay in SvM, as it stands now, boils down to 1 chance. It doesn't really matter how many lives you have left, you only have 1 opportunity to win because after that, you have 6 mines and up to 6 spy traps with camnet and 8-16 nades to deal with. If you screw up your 1 rush after a neck, then you lose. If mercs didn't get a refill on death, it adds a new element of strategy to the game...do I deploy my mines/spytraps/nades early, or do I wait to clamp down later in the game?

It would add a whole new element of strategy to the game. Would this only be limited to mercs not refilling after death?

It would if there were no refill points, but that doesn't seem to be the original idea. I have heard of two styles:

1. A point on the map that is accessible by both sides. It creates a choke point that isn't needed and would enable camping.

2. A point reachable by only 1 team. If it was the spawn point, the whole idea is flawed. If it is a different point, then there would most likely be only 1 or 2 paths to it, rending the same flaw as point 1.

No refills? I could go for that. Maybe up the gadget count a bit, but it seems reasonable. If refills must be part of the game, just do it on respawn.

[Spekkio]

1. A point on the map that is accessible by both sides. It creates a choke point that isn't needed and would enable camping.

This won't be true 100% of the time. In fact, it would only be true if the map was poorly designed. A well designed map would make the mercs move to guard both the ammo refill and the remaining objectives. Additionally, mercs camp...that's what happens when you have to guard objectives that typically don't move. It's part of the game. Camping is only a problem when mercs camp somewhere where they are nearly invulnerable, eg on top of the rails in Sector 2 of Station.

You won't always know if a spy is low on gadgets. Sure, you can guess he is if he spams smokes early, but that doesn't mean he has to go for a refill; he could still choose to attack objectives with what he has left.

Besides, "Chokepoints" are good for the game, provided you can balance out spies and mercs. They create action and force the spies to try to solve a problem, rather than run around objective tapping for 10 minutes like in Club House.

[DreadStunLock]

Camping isn't very bad thing at all on some maps, in Steel Squat if you learn the map very properly, you can be in 1 spot and guard more than 4 objectives as one mercenary, and your teammate just comes as a back up.