Author Topic: WHats PS gUNNA DO NOW ?!  (Read 11076 times)

Offline Spark Mandriller

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Re: WHats PS gUNNA DO NOW ?!
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2013, 03:30:58 AM »
There's no killstreaks in the game.

Offline VaNilla

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Re: WHats PS gUNNA DO NOW ?!
« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2013, 12:11:30 AM »
He killed 3 people in a row, and got 400 points for doing a double kill in a short period of time. Every competitive multiplayer game involving kills has killstreaks if we go by that definition. You can get a killstreak of "3" in PT and CT. I assumed that you were referring to killstreaks as in Call of Duty.

EDIT: Found this on the Ubisoft forums from SolidSage, who was invited to play the game at the Blacklist reveal along with 6 other community members.

Quote from: SolidSage
All I saw was points. I had a 5 kill streak at one point but no perks or anything like that appeared to be available.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2013, 01:09:33 AM by VaNilla »

Offline Spark Mandriller

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Re: WHats PS gUNNA DO NOW ?!
« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2013, 01:17:52 AM »
So you know there are killstreaks in the game, but when someone mentions the killstreaks in the game you assume he's talking about the ones that aren't in the game? How does that make sense?

Anyway the point is now the game encourages you to kill people. In CT killing dudes as spy was just a way to get them out of the way so you could achieve your objectives. In Blacklist the game is like FUCK YEAH YOU JUST KILLED THREE DUDES GOOD JOB BRO. That's the difference. Instead of stealth being a way to get around people, now stealth is a way to kill people. Like the difference between story and DM in CT, y'know?

Offline VaNilla

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Re: WHats PS gUNNA DO NOW ?!
« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2013, 01:29:01 AM »
The game gives you points for everything you do, and it gives you far more for completing objectives than it does for killing anyone. Given that you have infinite lives and the mercs are far more powerful, you're actually discouraged from killing, because it doesn't benefit you in any way. The only way to win the match is by hacking the objectives, and if you get killed while hacking from trying to kill mercs, you lose all your progress.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2013, 01:33:59 AM by VaNilla »

Offline Spark Mandriller

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Re: WHats PS gUNNA DO NOW ?!
« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2013, 01:31:31 AM »
If you were discouraged from killing there wouldn't be special bonuses for getting multi kills. You don't discourage behaviour by rewarding it, that's not how things work.

Offline VaNilla

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Re: WHats PS gUNNA DO NOW ?!
« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2013, 01:35:30 AM »
If you were discouraged from killing there wouldn't be special bonuses for getting multi kills. You don't discourage behaviour by rewarding it, that's not how things work.

It's all about context, risk vs reward. The reward for killing mercs is unsubstantial next to the reward for hacking the objectives. And the risk to your objective from failing to kill very powerful mercs is substantial, because you lose all your progress on the objective. Your whole argument is invalid.

Offline Spark Mandriller

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Re: WHats PS gUNNA DO NOW ?!
« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2013, 01:39:30 AM »
My argument is that rewarding behaviour encourages it. That's my whole argument.

Are you seriously disagreeing with that?

Offline VaNilla

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Re: WHats PS gUNNA DO NOW ?!
« Reply #22 on: May 13, 2013, 01:50:58 AM »
Eating pizza is very rewarding in my opinion; it tastes great, and appeases my appetite greatly. Does that encourage me to eat Pizza 24/7? Nope, not when considering the disadvantages of heavy weight gain among other serious impediments on my health. Killing is rewarding in three ways; points towards new gear in Blacklist mode, increased ranks, and prevents mercs from stopping the hacking process. But you gain more points from hacking the objectives, resulting in a higher ranking than kills, and the risk of death is so severe that it's often not worth the risk. It doesn't help you win the game unless your helping a friend who's hiding in the hacking zone. They can't go try going for kills by themselves because if they die, all of their progress is lost.

The game encourages you to avoid the mercs at all costs unless it's necessary to defend your teammates while they hack the objectives, and if you can catch them off guard with low risk. It's far less rewarding than in PT/CT, where killing them is actually an option to win the match.

Offline Spark Mandriller

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Re: WHats PS gUNNA DO NOW ?!
« Reply #23 on: May 13, 2013, 02:02:34 AM »
There's a risk of dying while you try to hack. Does that mean the game doesn't encourage hacking?

If the game rewards you for doing something that's encouraging it, sorry. That's all there is to it, sorry dude. I'm afraid you're wrong here, just like you were wrong when you claimed killstreaks weren't in the game.

Offline VaNilla

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Re: WHats PS gUNNA DO NOW ?!
« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2013, 02:13:49 AM »
Hacking is the only way to beat the mercs. It's your absolute goal, it's the most important thing in Blacklist's version of SvM. Killing barely aids you towards this goal, and in general, attempting it in anything other than an ambush situation will result in death, setting you way back. Hacking is encouraged more than anything else in the game. You're having a battle of semantics with me here; killstreaks are in the very first Splinter Cell by your definition, along with PT and CT's SvM mode. Killing is encouraged to an extent, but by no means is it a high priority. It's far less of a priority than it was in PT/CT, that's blatantly obvious.

Offline Spark Mandriller

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Re: WHats PS gUNNA DO NOW ?!
« Reply #25 on: May 13, 2013, 02:22:39 AM »
You're having a battle of semantics with me here; killstreaks are in the very first Splinter Cell by your definition, along with PT and CT's SvM mode.
My definition is the game giving you bonus points for getting multiple kills in a row without dying. Or just acknowledging it at all, really. Splinter Cell/PT/CT don't actually do that.

Offline VaNilla

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Re: WHats PS gUNNA DO NOW ?!
« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2013, 02:26:11 AM »
And why is this problematic? If you think people will go for kills because of the point system, hacking is a far more rewarding way of doing this. Winning the match is a far more rewarding way of gaining points than losing, and hacking is the only way to win. Killing barely aids you towards this goal, and who plays games to lose? The point system simply rewards you for every note worthy action in the game, it doesn't change the way the game plays out, that's the important thing.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2013, 02:28:01 AM by VaNilla »

Offline Spark Mandriller

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Re: WHats PS gUNNA DO NOW ?!
« Reply #27 on: May 13, 2013, 02:39:14 AM »
If the devs bothered to add rewards for double kills/killstreaks then those double kills/killstreaks must be pretty common. Much more common then they were in CT. Which matches up perfectly with spies having instant kill melee from any direction, and having hacking where they can still move around and attack, which also takes ages so mercs can always get there in time so there's always a conflict.

Basically what I'm getting at is that this is a very aggressive game and I'm not so into that. Like DM in CT, it's just kinda hmm. If you like that then that's good for you and I hope you enjoy it.

Offline VaNilla

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Re: WHats PS gUNNA DO NOW ?!
« Reply #28 on: May 13, 2013, 02:45:53 AM »
If the devs bothered to add rewards for double kills/killstreaks then those double kills/killstreaks must be pretty common. Much more common then they were in CT. Which matches up perfectly with spies having instant kill melee from any direction, and having hacking where they can still move around and attack, which also takes ages so mercs can always get there in time so there's always a conflict.

Basically what I'm getting at is that this is a very aggressive game and I'm not so into that. Like DM in CT, it's just kinda hmm. If you like that then that's good for you and I hope you enjoy it.

Double kills are a mechanic in the game, that's why they're recognized by the system, not because they're common. Death from above is rewarded, and that's going to be far less common in a game without free jumping. The system exists because it's proven to be fun for millions of people across multiple games. It's implemented in BF3, a game with no killstreaks at all, and yet it's still a rewarding experience. In general, people enjoy the experience of working towards new equipment, and while the point system facilitates that in Blacklist mode, everything is open from the start in Classic mode.

There's a different between fast pacing and aggressive gameplay. There's a difference between dumbing down the game and removing a mechanic like grabbing, which only serves to slow down the process of snapping necks. And before you bring up grabbing mercs to immobilize them long periods of time, it would totally imbalance a game where spies can freely move around while hacking. Knocking people out is still possible, but you have to use gadgets like sticky cams in order to do so, which is still challenging.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2013, 02:48:36 AM by VaNilla »

Offline Spark Mandriller

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Re: WHats PS gUNNA DO NOW ?!
« Reply #29 on: May 13, 2013, 02:54:45 AM »
It's implemented in BF3, a game with no killstreaks at all, and yet it's still a rewarding experience.
If BF3 has no killstreaks then why do I have like a thousand combat efficiency ribbons? And for that matter, why is my highest killstreak recorded on battlelog?

You're making my point for me, dude. CT had no killstreaks and killing wasn't the main goal. BF3 does have killstreaks and killing is a main goal. Blacklist also has killstreaks, so, y'know, what does that hint at? Right.