Project Stealth

Forums => Public Discussion => Topic started by: I <3 U on April 13, 2008, 11:59:20 PM

Title: Rollable (thrown by hand) Nades (applies to merc only)
Post by: I <3 U on April 13, 2008, 11:59:20 PM
OK so i havent thought this idea out, at all. But i was thinking maybe a rollable nade. The power of the roll/small throw would be determined by how long you held a certain button down for.

Pros:

If held in hand for long enough, shorter explosion time once thrown (handy for short distance nades)

Better for short distance nades than rebounding off of ceiling / charging up the nade bar thing as it would explode faster.

Its really cool

Merc could run full speed with nade in hand, but could not use gun or any other gadgets unless thrown or disarmed (except maybe gasmask)

Cons:

Could blow up in you're hand

When nade is cocked in your hand the spy would know cos there would be an animation to show nade is in merc hand  (so no random nades flying without spy knowing).

Would need to be timed perfectly allowing enough times for merc to escape, without suiciding (so it involves and element of skill which we all likexD)

What do yall think?
Title: Re: Rollable (thrown by hand) Nades (applies to merc only)
Post by: Farley4Fan on April 14, 2008, 12:07:25 AM
Sounds like a good tool against aggro, but not much better than the current nades we have now.  Maybe you could roll them out at a faster rate than a nade launcher can launch them?

I was thinking that maybe for certain weapons (or attachments) they don't come with the nade launcher.  Then if you choose the nade as a gadget, you can only throw them by hand.  I'm starting to like the 1 weapon system because it adds more strategy to picking your attachments/gadgets.  For instance if you take the shotgun attachment on your gun, you can add a reflex scope but no nade launcher.  I don't know something like that maybe.

I think I'll have to think about this idea some more to come up with a solid opinion on it.
Title: Re: Rollable (thrown by hand) Nades (applies to merc only)
Post by: I <3 U on April 14, 2008, 12:22:42 AM
Quote from: Papa Skull on April 14, 2008, 12:07:25 AM
Sounds like a good tool against aggro, but not much better than the current nades we have now.  Maybe you could roll them out at a faster rate than a nade launcher can launch them?

I was thinking that maybe for certain weapons (or attachments) they don't come with the nade launcher.  Then if you choose the nade as a gadget, you can only throw them by hand.  I'm starting to like the 1 weapon system because it adds more strategy to picking your attachments/gadgets.  For instance if you take the shotgun attachment on your gun, you can add a reflex scope but no nade launcher.  I don't know something like that maybe.

I think I'll have to think about this idea some more to come up with a solid opinion on it.

its very useful for very shortdistance nades, for example around corners. the nade wouldnt make a firing noise either. Only when it rolls along the floor. and this would be compulsory for all mercs, no extra gadget needed or w.e. its always handy for when uve seen a spy (as merc) but he doesn't know so as u walk past where hes hiding roll/drop a nade in there and charge off. It would be awesome.
Title: Re: Rollable (thrown by hand) Nades (applies to merc only)
Post by: Farley4Fan on April 14, 2008, 12:26:16 AM
The problem is people will cook the nades then throw them on unsuspecting spies and get instant kills.  Like COD4.  Spies will have no counter other than running away, and with a cooked nade, you don't have time.
Title: Re: Rollable (thrown by hand) Nades (applies to merc only)
Post by: I <3 U on April 14, 2008, 01:37:02 AM
Quote from: Papa Skull on April 14, 2008, 12:26:16 AM
The problem is people will cook the nades then throw them on unsuspecting spies and get instant kills.  Like COD4.  Spies will have no counter other than running away, and with a cooked nade, you don't have time.

It would be rolled, not throwed. and rolled slowly at that, so if u cooked it to long u wudnt ave time 2 escape.
Title: Re: Rollable (thrown by hand) Nades (applies to merc only)
Post by: greenday5494 on April 14, 2008, 02:04:46 AM
isnt this game supposed to have at least some realism? Whats the sense in that? "Oh there's a spy, im going to roll the nade, not throw it. i hope it catches him!"
Title: Re: Rollable (thrown by hand) Nades (applies to merc only)
Post by: I <3 U on April 14, 2008, 11:02:08 AM
Quote from: greenday5494 on April 14, 2008, 02:04:46 AM
isnt this game supposed to have at least some realism? Whats the sense in that? "Oh there's a spy, im going to roll the nade, not throw it. i hope it catches him!"

You roll it fast, if hes literally a few metres away from you, you dont want to lob it do you, cos it will go to far (unless the mercs are really weak and cant throw more than a few metres which i doubt). And it would be used for when spies are statitionary. When you dont know theyve seen them. Obviously if there running away from you, you just launch one out of your gun.
Title: Re: Rollable (thrown by hand) Nades (applies to merc only)
Post by: Kurbutti on April 14, 2008, 01:32:00 PM
Quote from: Papa Skull on April 14, 2008, 12:26:16 AM
The problem is people will cook the nades then throw them on unsuspecting spies and get instant kills.  Like COD4.  Spies will have no counter other than running away, and with a cooked nade, you don't have time.


Except that they could hear the nade cooking off, aaaaaand... *drums rolling*
Title: Re: Rollable (thrown by hand) Nades (applies to merc only)
Post by: Gawain on April 14, 2008, 02:55:29 PM
Quote from: Papa Skull on April 14, 2008, 12:26:16 AM
The problem is people will cook the nades then throw them on unsuspecting spies and get instant kills.  Like COD4.  Spies will have no counter other than running away, and with a cooked nade, you don't have time.
and if the spies taze you while "cooking" the nade, you get wtfpwned by your own nade...

i can't see a good reason to add a totally new mechanic like this. it would be way better if it was possible to fire nades with less speed (+eax superhearing will be gone, too).
Title: Re: Rollable (thrown by hand) Nades (applies to merc only)
Post by: Farley4Fan on April 14, 2008, 11:46:40 PM
I agree, however, if spies had a glove then this could be a good mechanic to add.
Title: Re: Rollable (thrown by hand) Nades (applies to merc only)
Post by: BurningDeath on April 14, 2008, 11:58:02 PM
Quote from: Rambo on April 14, 2008, 02:55:29 PM
i can't see a good reason to add a totally new mechanic like this. it would be way better if it was possible to fire nades with less speed (+eax superhearing will be gone, too).
It's already possible to fire grenades with less speed. Just hold down the button with the nade selected and it starts charging up. Needs some timing, though.
Title: Re: Rollable (thrown by hand) Nades (applies to merc only)
Post by: Farley4Fan on April 15, 2008, 12:00:08 AM
Yep.  It's really quite handy for getting nades just over a big container. ( the big group of boxes next to the Hangar in Polar Base is a prime example.  Killed many spies up there by just barely charging it )
Title: Re: Rollable (thrown by hand) Nades (applies to merc only)
Post by: Gawain on April 15, 2008, 09:03:27 AM
Quote from: BurningDeath on April 14, 2008, 11:58:02 PM
It's already possible to fire grenades with less speed. Just hold down the button with the nade selected and it starts charging up. Needs some timing, though.
i know, but the minimal speed is too much.
Title: Re: Rollable (thrown by hand) Nades (applies to merc only)
Post by: BurningDeath on April 15, 2008, 06:03:00 PM
Quote from: Rambo on April 15, 2008, 09:03:27 AM
Quote from: BurningDeath on April 14, 2008, 11:58:02 PM
It's already possible to fire grenades with less speed. Just hold down the button with the nade selected and it starts charging up. Needs some timing, though.
i know, but the minimal speed is too much.
The minimal speed makes the nade drop down to your feet, how can that be too much?
Title: Re: Rollable (thrown by hand) Nades (applies to merc only)
Post by: Kurbutti on April 15, 2008, 11:40:21 PM
The minimum speed is sufficent for almost anything, but I think the problem is in it's slowness to use. Maybe a double right click could just make the nade pop out with least power.
Title: Re: Rollable (thrown by hand) Nades (applies to merc only)
Post by: Farley4Fan on April 16, 2008, 12:01:37 AM
No.  It doesn't take that long at all.  If you (the merc) are moving, then it will go further.  If you aren't moving, it will drop a few feet from you or go over the desired obstacle.  The merc's speed affects the distance the nade is shot.  Can anyone confirm this because I'm like 90% sure this is the case.
Title: Re: Rollable (thrown by hand) Nades (applies to merc only)
Post by: Kurbutti on April 16, 2008, 12:04:01 AM
It does just as long as the recoil of the weapon doesn't cause a counter force greater than the merc's movement. I think that'd be at least logical.
Title: Re: Rollable (thrown by hand) Nades (applies to merc only)
Post by: Farley4Fan on April 16, 2008, 12:07:55 AM
I mean as we have it now, in CT.  I just checked and it is the case on xbox.  Probably on PC.  Any PC hardcore player know anything about that?  Or just any player in general?
Title: Re: Rollable (thrown by hand) Nades (applies to merc only)
Post by: Kurbutti on April 16, 2008, 12:12:11 AM
Well, we don't really need to know that... But I think mouse wheel would be a better way to choose at which speed the nade is being launched, than a timer. I never manage to get it right, especially cause I'm always in panic while I play.
Title: Re: Rollable (thrown by hand) Nades (applies to merc only)
Post by: greenday5494 on April 16, 2008, 12:15:24 AM
gr8 idea
Title: Re: Rollable (thrown by hand) Nades (applies to merc only)
Post by: Farley4Fan on April 16, 2008, 01:38:05 AM
No matter how long you charge it up it's always on the same timer.  I kind of know what you mean, but you had it worded wrong.  After a long time of play you get used to it.  There's only a few instances where I do use the charger.  I just get used to banking it off of things to get it where I want.  Doesn't matter what you use to charge up the nade, it will still be equally hard to land one right where you want it to.
Title: Re: Rollable (thrown by hand) Nades (applies to merc only)
Post by: Kurbutti on April 16, 2008, 01:58:58 AM
Quote from: Papa Skull on April 16, 2008, 01:38:05 AM
No matter how long you charge it up it's always on the same timer.  I kind of know what you mean, but you had it worded wrong.

Oh I know that... But I meant that the wheel should work the same way as it does in SP, when selecting speeds. Hopefully that clears it up, though it would have been helpful to hear your interpretation of my post.
Title: Re: Rollable (thrown by hand) Nades (applies to merc only)
Post by: Xris on April 16, 2008, 03:40:33 AM
Yes, grenade distance/speed or w/e u want to call it changes when ur moving on PC, this includes jumping ...
Title: Re: Rollable (thrown by hand) Nades (applies to merc only)
Post by: Farley4Fan on April 16, 2008, 05:14:54 AM
@Xris: Right, that is key to using nades on a low charge effectively.

@Kurbutti: I know what you meant in your previous post, that's why I said I know what you meant lol.  As for selecting speeds of the nade with a mouse wheel, meh, can't see why.  It's not hard to hold it down for the desired charge.  As I said before there's no point to like half of the speeds you can charge it up to because a single clicked nade is more effective for placing them.
Title: Re: Rollable (thrown by hand) Nades (applies to merc only)
Post by: AgentX_003 on April 16, 2008, 06:44:30 AM
Quote from: Papa Skull on April 16, 2008, 05:14:54 AM
@Xris: Right, that is key to using nades on a low charge effectively.

@Kurbutti: I know what you meant in your previous post, that's why I said I know what you meant lol.  As for selecting speeds of the nade with a mouse wheel, meh, can't see why.  It's not hard to hold it down for the desired charge.  As I said before there's no point to like half of the speeds you can charge it up to because a single clicked nade is more effective for placing them.

while on that note Holding your breath should be removed to a certain extent cause not alot of people use it but then again its a diff engine but who knows.
Title: Re: Rollable (thrown by hand) Nades (applies to merc only)
Post by: Farley4Fan on April 16, 2008, 06:56:31 AM
How is that on the same note?  Totally different subject

lmfao  :D
Title: Re: Rollable (thrown by hand) Nades (applies to merc only)
Post by: Westfall on April 16, 2008, 07:30:48 AM
Quote from: Kurbutti on April 15, 2008, 11:40:21 PM
The minimum speed is sufficent for almost anything, but I think the problem is in it's slowness to use. Maybe a double right click could just make the nade pop out with least power.

It already does...or you could just point the crosshairs to the floor.

I'm not convinced about the nade rolling. Don't really need it when you can make the nade bounce with your gun already. This seems like an okay idea, but just one more thing that really doesn't seem necessary.
Title: Re: Rollable (thrown by hand) Nades (applies to merc only)
Post by: VaNilla on April 16, 2008, 08:06:47 PM
Cool idea but I don't think it's really neccesary. A good idea is Kurbutti's, to mouse wheel charge frags at choice. It could be the same way as in CT but when you hold right mouse button, about 5 small squares pop up next to your crosshair, mouse wheel adjust to the square you feel appropiate and let it go :P.
Title: Re: Rollable (thrown by hand) Nades (applies to merc only)
Post by: Cyntrox on April 16, 2008, 10:43:00 PM
Quote from: STON3COLDKILLA on April 16, 2008, 08:06:47 PM
Cool idea but I don't think it's really neccesary. A good idea is Kurbutti's, to mouse wheel charge frags at choice. It could be the same way as in CT but when you hold right mouse button, about 5 small squares pop up next to your crosshair, mouse wheel adjust to the square you feel appropiate and let it go :P.
I agree, but the most powerful option should be selected by default - so that if you tap the right mouse button, the launcher will practically act like it does now.
Title: Re: Rollable (thrown by hand) Nades (applies to merc only)
Post by: Gawain on April 16, 2008, 11:24:41 PM
sounds good to me.
Title: Re: Rollable (thrown by hand) Nades (applies to merc only)
Post by: Farley4Fan on April 17, 2008, 12:13:18 AM
Sounds like it would be akward to control, but I think I could get used to it.
Title: Re: Rollable (thrown by hand) Nades (applies to merc only)
Post by: Xris on April 17, 2008, 03:37:44 AM
how about an option between most powerful on click, or last used setting on click

EDIT: or when the grenade slot is selected u can adjust power, and then u just click to shoot
Title: Re: Rollable (thrown by hand) Nades (applies to merc only)
Post by: Farley4Fan on April 17, 2008, 06:10:57 AM
I think the system we have now is less complex and fine the way it is.
Title: Re: Rollable (thrown by hand) Nades (applies to merc only)
Post by: Kurbutti on April 17, 2008, 11:15:44 AM
Quote from: Xris on April 17, 2008, 03:37:44 AM
how about an option between most powerful on click, or last used setting on click

EDIT: or when the grenade slot is selected u can adjust power, and then u just click to shoot

Launch power should be only adjustable when about to fire.
Title: Re: Rollable (thrown by hand) Nades (applies to merc only)
Post by: I <3 U on April 18, 2008, 01:43:46 PM
or how about the bar started off slower than it does and gradually increases speed the longer you hold the RMB down for?
Title: Re: Rollable (thrown by hand) Nades (applies to merc only)
Post by: Kurbutti on April 18, 2008, 01:45:39 PM
Quote from: FR33M4N on April 18, 2008, 01:43:46 PM
or how about the bar started off slower than it does and gradually increases speed the longer you hold the RMB down for?

That's how it works at the moment.
Title: Re: Rollable (thrown by hand) Nades (applies to merc only)
Post by: Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet on April 18, 2008, 01:59:31 PM
I thought it kept a constant speed?
Title: Re: Rollable (thrown by hand) Nades (applies to merc only)
Post by: Farley4Fan on April 18, 2008, 03:45:45 PM
Quote from: FR33M4N on April 18, 2008, 01:43:46 PM
or how about the bar started off slower than it does and gradually increases speed the longer you hold the RMB down for?

Quote from: Liqu1D_133 on April 18, 2008, 01:59:31 PM
I thought it kept a constant speed?

You guys are joking right?  It's how we have it now, and if it kept at a constant speed we wouldn't be able to barely charge it so it drops to your feet now would we?
Title: Re: Rollable (thrown by hand) Nades (applies to merc only)
Post by: Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet on April 18, 2008, 07:17:47 PM
Yeah, you'd tap the mouse button... and if you want mid range, you'd hold it for 1/2 the time of fully loading.

(do i have to repeat myself?]
Title: Re: Rollable (thrown by hand) Nades (applies to merc only)
Post by: I <3 U on April 18, 2008, 08:00:08 PM
but the lowest speed goes way to fast.
Title: Re: Rollable (thrown by hand) Nades (applies to merc only)
Post by: Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet on April 18, 2008, 09:53:41 PM
PS can have it lower.
PS =/= CT ffs!
Title: Re: Rollable (thrown by hand) Nades (applies to merc only)
Post by: Farley4Fan on April 18, 2008, 11:40:43 PM
Lol, how many times do we have to enforce that?

Make a poll Liquid.  Make the options The Same, Xris's Idea, Your Idea, Other...  Or just make it where the choices are Same or Different, then have the person say why.
Title: Re: Rollable (thrown by hand) Nades (applies to merc only)
Post by: Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet on April 19, 2008, 12:59:35 AM
...PS can have all this client-level stuff in the options, just like controls/ audio/ graphics.
Title: Re: Rollable (thrown by hand) Nades (applies to merc only)
Post by: Farley4Fan on April 19, 2008, 01:47:24 AM
True, but is it really all worth implementing?  Choices are always good to have but don't you guys think the CT/PT system is fine as it is?  I see nothing wrong with it - other than the last half of the high speeds being useless compared to the single click nade.  And that's easily fixed or removed.