I wrote down lots of ideas last night, some good and some bad. Remember, I'm just brainstorming so it's not that I feel all these ideas are full-proof and balanced/completely useful. BTW, one thing that does relate to my ideas is a new "gadget option" idea. I'm not exactly sure if this would be needed but I would like one of two things; More available gadgets or more default gadgets on a merc (like how a merc has a flashlight as default), make another gadget slot that has special gadgets that define your merc in a certain way (such as giving him special ammunition). This special gadget slot would be pretty important because all the gadgets allowed in this box would really be helpful. Just a thought.
Anyways, here goes;
Alternate Tazer - To make the tazer more useful I thought of a couple of things. One is a drastic change. Make it the type of tazer in the modern world that uses two hooks that are connected to wires and upon contact with a human body, the wires deliver the shock. Doing this for SvM means the range of the tazer would be increased but slower rate of fire. It would still be as deadly as ever just a little slower to fire and longer range (not PT long). The wires are quickly recoiled back to the gun for additional use when it misses it's target. Of course the tazer would still be built into the gun.(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FImage%3AM26_Taser.jpg&hash=c5b82dccf5a8ad909d8e5070745e9d82dc5ae686)
Oh yeah the other idea is to use the normal tazer but make it a tad longe range ;D
Handgun - People have mentioned this before, don't know if it's really needed nor do I really care but it's something to spark conversation.
Allowance of Guns - A merc can carry more than one gun such as a rifle and a dumbed-down shotgun possibly. This would severley change gameplay, again just something to talk about.
Attachments - Zedblade mentioned this a while ago on SC Lamers and it got me thinking. We could solve the variety of guns problem (uzi lag and all that shit) by putting that stuff as attachments on the standard gun. I thought of a couple of things; launcher for all your grenades (if you don't have the launcher attachment, you throw the grenades instead but it's not as fast or far range), shotgun, Foregrip (better accuracy), and anything else you can think of. Attachments would change gameplay quite a lot for a merc.
Gun Properties - Allows a merc to change the properties of his gun in-game. He can change the gun from an assault rifle to more sniper oriented (or other options). Each change takes 5-10 seconds to complete. Would be interesting.
Strap/Harness - Steadies accuracy, would be a passive gadget.
Bayonet - Increases close combat damage.
Special Ammunition - Merc has a limited amount of special ammunition such as Incendiary and depleted uranium.
Bandolier - More ammo for EACH clip, not TOTAL ammo (to make it useful).
Flash Resistant Goggles - Merc's goggles are more resistant to flash effects.
Incendiary Grenade - Grenade that once fired, explodes in the area and leaves a fire (like the one in steelsquat with the petrol gas bomb) for 5-10 seconds. This would be good to clear objectives.
Remember, not all these ideas I think should be in the game. Just ideas to talk about. More on spy later.
wow some great ideas for these i especially like the different attachments so that the merc has more options. The tazer however i dont understand. How would making it slower be easier to fight off aggro spies?
I just can't see a bayonet armed mercenary.
thanx Vega...please keep in mind that our priority is a clone first....additions later. Once the engine and animations and all the gonads are built...adding on features will be a lot easier.
Some intresting idea's, some I agree may be usefull.. some not so usefull.
I like the sound of Gun attachments though, would vary merc play a little.
Really? You guys like the gun attachments? Whenever I play a game (as spy) with 2 mercs of different guns, I always try to plan knowing that they can't switch guns mid-game and that they each have a role they must fill. It's especally fun if 2 mercs have shotguns, thats our plan of attack REALLY changes from the norm.
Yup, I know cloning is first just wanted to throw out ideas since it's fun to discuss.
A bayonet-armed merc is kinda odd but at the same time you could make the bayonet look modern. Besides that, I was thinking that the bayonet would literally just increase combat damage. No visual stabbing or anything of that sort (no silly bayonet charge like they did in WW1). I was thinking of Gears of War and how they did the chainsaw (since that is completely badass).
Again, I know these ideas aren't balanced or anything of the sort, especially when it comes to attachments. I fully agree that it really changes the playstyle with the allowance of different attachments. But, it's an idea that can be tossed around and changed in many ways.
Anyways, good to see people are responding, it's always fun ^_^ If any of you have any ideas I would love to hear/discuss them.
About the tazer; good point on it not scaring off aggro spies, I thought of it a little differently in my head originally. What I was going with was trying to get the idea that getting relatively close (not neck distance, but running around the merc in circles) is a bad idea. So I increased the range of the tazer but lowered the rate of fire. The reason I wanted to change it was because a lot of people complained about the tazer in CT even though it was certainly useful against aggro spies (some cases it was a waste of a gadget slot, depended on the skill level of the spies).
Quote from: Vega on November 21, 2006, 10:54:41 PM
...[about tazer](some cases it was a waste of a gadget slot, depended on the skill level of the spies).
that is a good point. I never take the tazer in story because there are more important things(i.e. mask, mines etc.) if it was simply another attachment that one might use instead of a scope or something, i would use it all the time.
Wow cool nice thinking :D
It would be pretty cool for the Merc to be able to go back to his base and change his weapon from Sniper to Automatic to another mode. It could be made to take around 5 seconds to change.
It might sound odd, but it could help balance the teams.
Here is another merc idea. It was inspired by Farcry (http://www.farcry-thegame.com/). In Farcry, when you shot someone, you would see cool blood craters on their bodies that tells you where they were shot. I'm not saying we should make the decals blood craters, maybe just holes in their suit with some blood on the fatal kill. Maybe a merc shoots a spy off of a higher place, spy falls to the floor and merc wants to take a close look at the body to see where the fatal shot fell (FOOT KILL!) then BAM! neck grab while merc is distracted and life is good. Not sure how effective this would be since the inaccuracies of CT guns mean its more random luck than skill if a spy gets hit in the head but still very cool nevertheless.
Edit: Just had a thought. Spy suit is bulletproof and the holes would be bullets stopped by the suit and the fatal shot would be the one that bleeds.
ahhhh yes, a very cool thing to see. Wouldn't mind it at all!
Quote from: Jordan on November 22, 2006, 07:53:40 PM
It would be pretty cool for the Merc to be able to go back to his base and change his weapon from Sniper to Automatic to another mode. It could be made to take around 5 seconds to change.
It might sound odd, but it could help balance the teams.
Changing weapons is definitely something we need to do. Don't know if it'll make the clone but that's an important addition. First it'll take some balancing, of course. Maybe we should just make it like in other FPS games; where you change your weapons in a menu and you'll get them after you respawn.
Since we're talking about mercenary ideas... How about unlimited lives for the mercs, but increasing the spawn time for every time you get your neck grabbed and getting grabbed 4 times means "game over"?
Quote from: MacBryce on November 23, 2006, 08:38:15 AM
Since we're talking about mercenary ideas... How about unlimited lives for the mercs, but increasing the spawn time for every time you get your neck grabbed and getting grabbed 4 times means "game over"?
Not a bad idea but I like the idea of nading your partner can mean bad news for the both of you.
or what about 1 life each? Hardcore!
Setting the lifes can be an option but one life each won't be the default one.
if you guys dont go to the presentation forums....got a merc idea finished:::
http://projectstealth.splintercellnetwork.com/index.php?topic=135.0 (http://projectstealth.splintercellnetwork.com/index.php?topic=135.0)
I'm not sure I like the "wearing item X reduces the effects of item Y" concept. In particular, the spy flash bang vs. a suggested flash-resistant mask. This sounds too non-CT to me. When I drop a flash, I want to know that if the merc was looking at it, and not in a vision - he's blind for a bit. Not that he's only 30% blinded because of his mask. Or, make it obvious via a model that the merc has goggles/mask to go that(maybe slung across his back with other gear?)
Quote from: MacBryce on November 23, 2006, 08:38:15 AM
Since we're talking about mercenary ideas... How about unlimited lives for the mercs, but increasing the spawn time for every time you get your neck grabbed and getting grabbed 4 times means "game over"?
I've always though unlimited respawns for mercs would be a good idea. What I would personally do is have no "game over" but, after say 2 deaths, you no longer spawn with equipment (so mercs can't kill each other for more gear), and I like the idea of the increasing the spawn time.
That's a nice idea.
on the mercs changing guns:
How about when you look at mercs and press a certain button then a quick stats pops up. If you havent been close to them yet then it doesnt show anything but if youve been close to them it will say what weapon they have and what attachments etc. If they change thier gadgets since the last time you saw them then you wont know so youll be in for a suprise.
that quick rappel for mercs in Double Agent was pretty cool, any plan on doing that?
or maybe just a jump over the railing, so that if you do it from anything more than a single story drop you get two broken legs and die. i like that better because its not so much like rainbow 6 vegas.
i like the idea of gun attachments, and i like the idea of some special nades like phosphorus and incendiary ones (maybe we could combine them to one nade). it would also be great if the spies could clearly see or scan which (and how many of each) gadgets/attachments the mercs are carrying.
Quote from: krimsonhead on June 02, 2007, 06:54:42 AM
that quick rappel for mercs in Double Agent was pretty cool, any plan on doing that?
After talking with Snakebit about the implications of the grappling hook, I hope it doesn't make its way into PS.
spies should keep their vertical advantage, and all a grapple hook would encourage is camping on the catwalks.
Quote from: Gawain on June 03, 2007, 12:11:12 AM
spies should keep their vertical advantage, and all a grapple hook would encourage is camping on the catwalks.
well I don't know about that. As designed most maps already have easy means of getting down for a merc, like river mall elevator shafts, so I probably wouldn't think a grapple as a gadget would be too unbalanced.
The problem is that we'll be porting old maps that aren't designed for it and could lead to some odd consequences, like being able to rappel out the window in hospital, so it's probably not even worth doing, because it's a pain to code and will make map making more difficult.
Quote from: InvisibleMan999 on June 03, 2007, 11:25:26 PM
well I don't know about that. As designed most maps already have easy means of getting down for a merc, like river mall elevator shafts, so I probably wouldn't think a grapple as a gadget would be too unbalanced.
thats what i had in mind. i think they need to be able to jump railings with or without a rappel. mercs could use some more animations and some barely-acrobatic moves. and while im thinking of it, there should be no way at all for mercs to
stand on railings.
Quote from: Gawain on June 03, 2007, 12:11:12 AM
spies should keep their vertical advantage, and all a grapple hook would encourage is camping on the catwalks.
It's not that, it's that it drastically cuts down how many places you can run away to because the merc can just hop down after you and continue the chase.
no not really, considering the time it takes.
I would like to see fast roping from vegas, only in certain places like down elevator shafts in abandoned places. Should be a really unused feature but for places where ladders wouldn't be realistic.
Quote from: krimsonhead on June 04, 2007, 03:16:37 AM
there should be no way at all for mercs to stand on railings.
I've always found rail walking to be kinda dumb, though I'm not sure if we should remove it or not. I haven't really considered all the implications of taking it out of the game.
Implications? I think these maps were designed without rail walking in mind so the only implication would be shifting the gameplay towards map designer's intentions.
What makes you think that considering it's been a feature since the inception of SvM?
Mercs do not need to jump full stop
YES THEY NEED TO JUMP!!!
How many times have you killed a spy by turning around the time youre in the air??
Jumping helps mercs alot, and its balanced quite well so i say we leave it where it is
fuller stop :P
removing jumping would be a pretty big change, and would hurt a merc against aggro tactics.
um removing jumping hm dont we want this game to be realistic? ???
Yes we want it and thats why mercs will have jumping 8)
scct realistic? looooooooooool ;D
yea scct realistic... care to share why you think its not? and dont tell me cause host grabs and the camo suit
the whole scenario is just rofl mao
besides, the camo is much more realistic than the sticky shocker XD
1st. Japanese scientists actually have invented camo, and it really works (saw a documentary on Discovery Sciense)
2nd. The SS is pretty possible, if the spies launch some type of charged bullet :D
Quote from: LiVe.To.Di3 on June 06, 2007, 12:48:29 PM
yea scct realistic... care to share why you think its not? and dont tell me cause host grabs and the camo suit
The list would be much shorter if you told us why it was realistic.
Well then, spies should be able to grab even while a merc is in the air. Im just saying that jumping added alot of unwanted glitches. I'd be all for a quick turn button though though (CTRL + Beserk) that makes you turn through 180 degrees
No, the 180 would be crap - thats why berserk is in the game :P
the problem with fast turning is that most good snipers prefer slow mouse settings ingame. this should be no problem with the new aiming. we're talking about the pc version here, so plz stfu console kiddies -.-
Quote from: Tidenburg on June 06, 2007, 10:43:20 PM
Well then, spies should be able to grab even while a merc is in the air. Im just saying that jumping added alot of unwanted glitches. I'd be all for a quick turn button though though (CTRL + Beserk) that makes you turn through 180 degrees
So fix the glitches. Removing jumping entirely is like cutting off your leg because your toe hurts.
yea seriously^ thats just like in da you cannot jump as high as ct and i remember that a guy asked since the merc cant jump mostly at all why jump at all? the other guy says because then u would ask why cant the merc jump lol? we must make merc jump!
Quote from: Spekkio on June 07, 2007, 02:48:57 AM
Quote from: Tidenburg on June 06, 2007, 10:43:20 PM
Well then, spies should be able to grab even while a merc is in the air. Im just saying that jumping added alot of unwanted glitches. I'd be all for a quick turn button though though (CTRL + Beserk) that makes you turn through 180 degrees
So fix the glitches. Removing jumping entirely is like cutting off your leg because your toe hurts.
What? You mean there was another way to stop my ache? Oops... ???
I've always thought jumping was stupid from a realistic point of view. No merc is going to be hopping around while fighting a spy, that's pretty dumb.
However, balance wise, jumping is an anti-aggro maneuver, so we've got to be careful about taking it out.
because in real life the mercenarie cannot just turn around 360 and wait until the spy grabs him. unless the spy in real life just goes up to him and grabs him there is no other way
If you want to make a realistic game, you'll have to make so much changes that it's no longer the SvM we like.
For example:
lethal weaponry for spies
mission parameters (always stealth or you get a penalty for leaving evidence, no frag usage for mercs, damages the environment)
no sticky cams, spybullets or snares (cause they wouldn't survive the impact of hitting the wall)
probably no chaff and flash would blind you if you just threw it on the ground
no MT or EMF as we know it
no NV and thermal in a small set of goggles.
I could go on and on...
Of course the futuristic setting that we'll be having would allow a little lee-way on the gadgetry.
The idea of not allowing the mercs to jump is an interesting concept. It would solve rail camping and it would prevent missed spy grabs. It would emphasize the spies mobility versus the mercs firepower. I wouldn't be too sad to see merc jumping taken out. If this were done the zip line that mercs have in DA would probably become necessary.
Quote from: Innocent-US on June 08, 2007, 08:28:57 PM
The idea of not allowing the mercs to jump is an interesting concept. It would solve rail camping and it would prevent missed spy grabs. It would emphasize the spies mobility versus the mercs firepower. I wouldn't be too sad to see merc jumping taken out. If this were done the zip line that mercs have in DA would probably become necessary.
I like the no jump part. But I think the zip line is gay. Maybe just a action button that allows the merc to hop over a rail and jump down. NO zip line required.
Actually. No jumping, however keep the ability to 'climb.' That way they can get up on a box to set a uber mine (like in ct.) but when they are just walking they can't bunny hop and can't jump on stairs to get on rails.
Quote from: Zedblade on June 08, 2007, 10:12:44 PM
No jumping, however keep the ability to 'climb.' That way they can get up on a box to set a uber mine (like in ct.) but when they are just walking they can't bunny hop and can't jump on stairs to get on rails.
Yeah that would be cool, and i think it would kinda balance the game :D
hm host grabs will be easy
Quote from: LiVe.To.Di3 on June 09, 2007, 12:54:31 AM
hm host grabs will be easy
... host grabs already are easy, thats why are are HOST GRABS.
Jumping doesn't do anything to stop host grabbing. You just get grabbed in mid-air.
Yeah, wich is crappy
Maybe set-up a main server, on wich the players could ceate "rooms"..
I mean, the server creates the requested room with the requested settings, everything seems like CT, where players are hosting the game, but in real, everyone is connected to the Main server, wich is acting as host.
This should prevent host-grabs, and lags if someones d/l stuff :D
omg so no more host grabs?! then it will be really hard grabbing people now:( :D
Main servers like you say isn't a good idea, because:
- we'll need more when we get more players and who is going to pay for that? Or the whole setting up? Fall-backs and backups?
- We'll need them at various places around the world to prevent lag. = expensive
I can probably afford 1 server in 2 different networks for PS (so 2 servers total). However, that'll be normal main/master servers if that's possible with PS being a Mod. Else it's for statistics gathering I guess ::)
I think a peer-to-peer set-up is best, because I have to pay for the bandwidth :P. But we'll probably have some 'official' servers online and we'll try to have some dedicated server executable if that's possible, so lag is reduced.
This is all speculation and wishful thinking.
I think that if the game is sponsored, there will be a server with dedicates on :D
But who will sponsor a free game?? nVIDIA sponsored TrackManiaNations, but it was made for the ESWC...
Maybe Epic, Ubi, Eidos or even private dudes can sponsor...
I think that if the game is good when u release it, and some league takes it on, the sponsorship will be granted :D
Quote from: Kok4f4n on June 09, 2007, 01:33:19 AM
Yeah, wich is crappy
Maybe set-up a main server, on wich the players could ceate "rooms"..
I mean, the server creates the requested room with the requested settings, everything seems like CT, where players are hosting the game, but in real, everyone is connected to the Main server, wich is acting as host.
This should prevent host-grabs, and lags if someones d/l stuff :D
Dedicated servers. We just need to make them less crappy by giving one of the players control so he can lobby, change maps and start games.
Quote from: Overstatement on June 09, 2007, 04:30:52 PM
Quote from: Kok4f4n on June 09, 2007, 01:33:19 AM
Yeah, wich is crappy
Maybe set-up a main server, on wich the players could ceate "rooms"..
I mean, the server creates the requested room with the requested settings, everything seems like CT, where players are hosting the game, but in real, everyone is connected to the Main server, wich is acting as host.
This should prevent host-grabs, and lags if someones d/l stuff :D
Dedicated servers. We just need to make them less crappy by giving one of the players control so he can lobby, change maps and start games.
Excactly what i meant, just couldnt find the words :D