there's not one single normal door in ct vs. mode, probably because they didn't want to face the problems with blocking the door etc. but i think this is something that has great potential to add to the gameplay.
-normal doors that don't slide automatically but that you have to push or pull open manually
-can work in one or both directions, getting through in the direction it opens is faster
-being able to leave the door open for a quick escape route or close it to stay hidden
-door can be blocked with your body
-door can be blast out of place by nades, mines, charge which also kick down the blocking person
-door can be opened in a stealthy way
-wooden doors aren't bullet-proof
etc
Nice idea, i think it would be pretty hard to implement fairly though, there are so many scenarios you have to thnk about. Would be cool though.
Initially it sounds pretty interesting, but there are two things I'm concerned about. First, that's another thing for the mapper to consider, because openable doors can break laser beams of some door blocking mines. However, I see that as a very subtle limitation for mine placement. Another thing is that mercs can see the doors opening from far away, if they're aware. Derivating from that, doors are easy spots to cover with a sniper.
You should be able to thermal through the doors aswell, otherwise they'd suck
Quote from: Kurbutti on April 26, 2008, 02:24:39 PM
Initially it sounds pretty interesting, but there are two things I'm concerned about. First, that's another thing for the mapper to consider, because openable doors can break laser beams of some door blocking mines. However, I see that as a very subtle limitation for mine placement. Another thing is that mercs can see the doors opening from far away, if they're aware. Derivating from that, doors are easy spots to cover with a sniper.
i guess you have to place your mines considering this.
seeing doors open is balanced. if they are open, they provide no visual cover but you can sneak through with camo. if they are closed, you can't sneak through but they provide visual cover.
Quote from: FR33M4N on April 26, 2008, 02:32:34 PM
You should be able to thermal through the doors aswell, otherwise they'd suck
there definitely has to be some way too look at the other side without fully opening it.
Plus we already know thats possible to do after Mr Mics demo. Mines would be a big problem here.
Quote from: Tidenburg on April 26, 2008, 02:47:18 PM
Plus we already know thats possible to do after Mr Mics demo. Mines would be a big problem here.
Could someone explain to me why mines will be a problem? I don't really see a problem?
There will be no problem with mines if the door was actually un-usable after a merc has either shot it with a nade or charged it down. That will leave the door open for blocking mines but will also allow to spies move through it with ease.
Quote from: Kurbutti on April 26, 2008, 03:00:03 PM
There will be no problem with mines if the door was actually un-usable after a merc has either shot it with a nade or charged it down. That will leave the door open for blocking mines but will also allow to spies move through it with ease.
Why would we introduce this type of door, if we have to blow em up to use our stuff? Ubisoft already goes into this problem with Pandora Tomorrow and sliding door is the best opportunity. However, I think that we should focus on breakable elements [I'm not talking about unlocking a new section by hacking or stuff like that] instead of making new door types.
Quote from: Hyrage on April 26, 2008, 04:56:48 PM
Quote from: Kurbutti on April 26, 2008, 03:00:03 PM
There will be no problem with mines if the door was actually un-usable after a merc has either shot it with a nade or charged it down. That will leave the door open for blocking mines but will also allow to spies move through it with ease.
Why would we introduce this type of door, if we have to blow em up to use our stuff? Ubisoft already goes into this problem with Pandora Tomorrow and sliding door is the best opportunity. However, I think that we should focus on breakable elements [I'm not talking about unlocking a new section by hacking or stuff like that] instead of making new door types.
1. Blowing them up isn't the only way
2. #1 isn't a condition that has to be true in order to place traps
3. The door is a destructible element and it does make a big difference in comparison in the way it works with the sliding doors that we have now
Quote from: Kurbutti on April 26, 2008, 06:44:35 PM
Quote from: Hyrage on April 26, 2008, 04:56:48 PM
Quote from: Kurbutti on April 26, 2008, 03:00:03 PM
There will be no problem with mines if the door was actually un-usable after a merc has either shot it with a nade or charged it down. That will leave the door open for blocking mines but will also allow to spies move through it with ease.
Why would we introduce this type of door, if we have to blow em up to use our stuff? Ubisoft already goes into this problem with Pandora Tomorrow and sliding door is the best opportunity. However, I think that we should focus on breakable elements [I'm not talking about unlocking a new section by hacking or stuff like that] instead of making new door types.
1. Blowing them up isn't the only way
2. #1 isn't a condition that has to be true in order to place traps
3. The door is a destructible element and it does make a big difference in comparison in the way it works with the sliding doors that we have now
A rotating door interferes with a laser mine, isn't it?
If a door opens forward (door handle on the right side, hinges on the right) as you go through it, a mine placed 90 degrees directly to your right, the door will naturally block the beam. However, a mine 90 degrees on the left remains fully effective.
Wrong:
|
| |
| |<-----------------(o)
| ___|
Right:
| |
| | |
| | |
|(o)----------___| |
Quote from: Kurbutti on April 26, 2008, 07:08:52 PM
If a door opens forward (door handle on the right side, hinges on the right) as you go through it, a mine placed 90 degrees directly to your right, the door will naturally block the beam. However, a mine 90 degrees on the left remains fully effective.
Wrong:
|
| |
| |<-----------------(o)
| ___|
Right:
| |
| | |
| | |
|(o)----------___| |
Do you realize that you are strongly affecting the level design possibilities just because you want a rotating door :-\ ? It would mean to have absolutely the right kind of wall on both sides each times what wouldn't really fit.
Are the doors only opening in one way? or both way?
That'd depend. And you can always just get rid of the door altogether if it bothers you.
Quote from: Kurbutti on April 26, 2008, 08:03:58 PM
That'd depend. And you can always just get rid of the door altogether if it bothers you.
Yeah I guess... I agree that having different doors is adding variety, if used properly it could make sense but due to the mine gameplay we couldn't really fully use rotating doors because it would limit the level design of the maps... but I'm sure we could do something interesting with this feature.
I like it, but didn't I suggest something like this in my interactive maps thread? Maybe not. But anywho, I can't see any problems arising from this. Needs testing, everything new does.
it wouldn't limit anything because of the other mine placement needed.
Quote from: Rambo on April 26, 2008, 08:42:33 PM
it wouldn't limit anything because of the other mine placement needed.
Create a map with laser mines and you'll see it by yourself...
Quote from: Hyrage on April 26, 2008, 08:30:25 PM
Quote from: Kurbutti on April 26, 2008, 08:03:58 PM
That'd depend. And you can always just get rid of the door altogether if it bothers you.
Yeah I guess... I agree that having different doors is adding variety, if used properly it could make sense but due to the mine gameplay we couldn't really fully use rotating doors because it would limit the level design of the maps... but I'm sure we could do something interesting with this feature.
How about a door that liek fadeZZ awai as soon as the match startZ so Yew Dont C it, Eva?
That wud liek be teh best d00r eva.
How about a revolving door for entrances into big office buildings? Could lead to some interesting situations (A merc charges the door and it spins so fast that it creates a vortex :D) But seriously, if at all possible I'd love to see different kinds of doors.
Quote from: Papa Skull on April 26, 2008, 10:09:07 PM
How about a revolving door for entrances into big office buildings? Could lead to some interesting situations (A merc charges the door and it spins so fast that it creates a vortex :D) But seriously, if at all possible I'd love to see different kinds of doors.
What about placing a mine as a C4... and blast a spy with the flying door once you activated the mine ^^... home run!
Quote from: Hyrage on April 26, 2008, 09:12:36 PM
Create a map with laser mines and you'll see it by yourself...
dude, i know better about mines than some dm player like you. the problem with moving doors and laser/poison mines/spytraps already exists in ct (laser directed at door, u wanna go through door, you get hit), and they solved it by not letting the moving door activate the mine/spytrap and the laser simply got longer (or short again when the door closes). we can have them triggered when the laser target moves or something gets in the way, or leave them the way they work in ct. both ways, players can easily adjust (look for kurbuttis placement example).
Quote from: Hyrage on April 26, 2008, 06:56:18 PM
Quote from: Kurbutti on April 26, 2008, 06:44:35 PM
Quote from: Hyrage on April 26, 2008, 04:56:48 PM
Quote from: Kurbutti on April 26, 2008, 03:00:03 PM
There will be no problem with mines if the door was actually un-usable after a merc has either shot it with a nade or charged it down. That will leave the door open for blocking mines but will also allow to spies move through it with ease.
Why would we introduce this type of door, if we have to blow em up to use our stuff? Ubisoft already goes into this problem with Pandora Tomorrow and sliding door is the best opportunity. However, I think that we should focus on breakable elements [I'm not talking about unlocking a new section by hacking or stuff like that] instead of making new door types.
1. Blowing them up isn't the only way
2. #1 isn't a condition that has to be true in order to place traps
3. The door is a destructible element and it does make a big difference in comparison in the way it works with the sliding doors that we have now
A rotating door interferes with a laser mine, isn't it?
Not if I make it not too, I can set the mines only to trigger when they are shot or when a human player walks by, so the "mine being a problem argument" is out of place here.
Isn't it a laser mine? The laser would pass through the door or the spy will just not see it.
Quote from: LennardF1989 on April 27, 2008, 12:45:49 AM
Not if I make it not too, I can set the mines only to trigger when they are shot or when a human player walks by, so the "mine being a problem argument" is out of place here.
that's the way it works in ct, though it's kinda retarded (but an easy solution).
Quote from: Hyrage on April 26, 2008, 10:37:54 PM
What about placing a mine as a C4... and blast a spy with the flying door once you activated the mine ^^... home run!
yeeha ;D
Quote from: Hyrage on April 27, 2008, 01:13:13 AM
Isn't it a laser mine? The laser would pass through the door or the spy will just not see it.
u claim to be so pro at story mode that it bores you and yet you have no idea how laser mines work in ct...
I never claimed to be so Pro in Story Mode dude, especially not after so many years that I haven't played this game lol.
No idea of how a mine works... you probably want my kick in your ass I guess for your lame arrogance and your lack of experience through Gametypes. If you truly think that Story Mode is "superior" to Deathmatch, it's an opinion - not a fact. It's a preference, not a fact. Enjoy the screenshots ^^ that I took just for you Rambo :D .
Well, no comments
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg292.imageshack.us%2Fimg292%2F8165%2Fsc1ix4.jpg&hash=dfe82f312e67786430798ee8ef1b8c977bc84bf7)
And I strongly hope you knew this spot
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg292.imageshack.us%2Fimg292%2F5308%2Fsc2xw1.jpg&hash=5909e9fdf85ae248d891b4614f19f65d2dc92fe8)
Wait... I think it's a door ::)
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg355.imageshack.us%2Fimg355%2F7885%2Fsc3jt4.jpg&hash=27bfcfdb629959a765e0fe368c99e41074113b39)
Next time, don't say things I didn't mention 8) , you are making a fool of youself everytimes...
roflcopter warehouse, and the mine places are even bad XD
don't make yourself a fool, dude.
Quote from: Rambo on April 27, 2008, 04:36:09 PM
roflcopter warehouse, and the mine places are even bad XD
don't make yourself a fool, dude.
How smart are you here again by assuming thatI placed them for Story Mode just for you - because unfortunately for you::: Yes Deathmatch exists and makes sense if you can use everything and remove Berserk. These pics are showing "how and where you can take advantage of your environment to place mine." Nothing else.
Quote from: LennardF1989 on April 27, 2008, 12:45:49 AM
Quote from: Hyrage on April 26, 2008, 06:56:18 PM
Quote from: Kurbutti on April 26, 2008, 06:44:35 PM
Quote from: Hyrage on April 26, 2008, 04:56:48 PM
Quote from: Kurbutti on April 26, 2008, 03:00:03 PM
There will be no problem with mines if the door was actually un-usable after a merc has either shot it with a nade or charged it down. That will leave the door open for blocking mines but will also allow to spies move through it with ease.
Why would we introduce this type of door, if we have to blow em up to use our stuff? Ubisoft already goes into this problem with Pandora Tomorrow and sliding door is the best opportunity. However, I think that we should focus on breakable elements [I'm not talking about unlocking a new section by hacking or stuff like that] instead of making new door types.
1. Blowing them up isn't the only way
2. #1 isn't a condition that has to be true in order to place traps
3. The door is a destructible element and it does make a big difference in comparison in the way it works with the sliding doors that we have now
A rotating door interferes with a laser mine, isn't it?
Not if I make it not too, I can set the mines only to trigger when they are shot or when a human player walks by, so the "mine being a problem argument" is out of place here.
It was pretty much implied in the argument, that the mines only explode when the beam is broken by a spy. However, an opening door would block the beam and thus render the mine useless.
If you make poison mines react to spies only, but make lasers blow up if anything breaks the beam, they could be used as booby traps.
Quote from: Hyrage on April 27, 2008, 01:13:13 AM
Isn't it a laser mine? The laser would pass through the door or the spy will just not see it.
No way... Not even for the gameplay's sake. It'd look way too stupid.
hyrage, what exactly makes you jump from the topic "doors" to showing us your 1337 mine spots for death match? they are in no way related to this topic...
Recently my internet went down so I played through a couple missions of single player. I forgot how much I loved to lure people to doors and then bash them in. I say yes for that for the merc. Although I don't know how a merc could lure a spy lol
i say yes for that for spys, mercs will never be safe again! muahahaha
btw hyrage, you forgot the most awesome mine combo on warehouse:
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg392.imageshack.us%2Fimg392%2F1193%2Fasdfasdflu7.jpg&hash=b61ca082a694dfa640131dd7f2556e1d0a1d1c88)
Quote from: Rambo on April 27, 2008, 06:15:10 PM
hyrage, what exactly makes you jump from the topic "doors" to showing us your 1337 mine spots for death match? they are in no way related to this topic...
Cool ;D , I see that you enjoyed playing Story Mode by placing mines on a wall with your mate ^^. :-* Was it that much boring? Hope not... :'(
If you take a closer look you will see that my post is always related to the Topic of this thread: doors and that we were discussing the impact of the doors on mines.
Plus, I must admit that I'm disapointed to see that your strongest comment on what I'm writing on this forum is... "Shut up, you prefer playing DM... you can't say anything valuable because I prefer Story Mode."
- so please, avoid this statement... it's pointless :-\
So, back on topic... 8)
If you place a laser mine close from a rotating door, how couldn't it bring up a problem. Is the door opening only from one side? Both sides? Is there going to be a wall to put you mine on the right side? ???
Out of those 3 pictures, one was in a doorway.
Out of those 3 pictures, each mine wasn't very good.
Story is easily better than DM.
Thats my summary of this thread. About revolving doors....mmmm....don't really know. Might be a nice idea, but I don't think its necessary. I can't tell yet....need to keep thinking on it.
It was just a suggestion for like an office building or something. For example instead of those stupid button doors outside of deftech wouldn't it be better to have some nice revolving doors? Might put UE3's physics to the test eh? ;D
Quote from: Papa Skull on April 27, 2008, 07:24:54 PM
It was just a suggestion for like an office building or something. For example instead of those stupid button doors outside of deftech wouldn't it be better to have some nice revolving doors? Might put UE3's physics to the test eh? ;D
But there were other ways to get into a building, as opposed to the front door. Granted the front door is a nice option, but probably a bad idea. I like the idea of having to break a window or something to get inside. I don't think a spy should just be able to walk in. Some sort of noise or hack signal needs to show.
Quote from: Westfall on April 27, 2008, 07:21:40 PM
Out of those 3 pictures, one was in a doorway.
Out of those 3 pictures, each mine wasn't very good.
Story is easily better than DM.
exactly.
Quote from: Westfall on April 27, 2008, 07:31:35 PM
I like the idea of having to break a window or something to get inside. I don't think a spy should just be able to walk in. Some sort of noise or hack signal needs to show.
me2, better than infiltrating like every map through a vent XD
so let's go back on topic: what other, non-mine related problems do you foresee? what other ideas for doors do you guys have? @devs: what is possible without too much effort?
Quote from: Rambo on April 27, 2008, 08:01:59 PM
Quote from: Westfall on April 27, 2008, 07:21:40 PM
Out of those 3 pictures, one was in a doorway.
Out of those 3 pictures, each mine wasn't very good.
Story is easily better than DM.
exactly.
Quote from: Westfall on April 27, 2008, 07:31:35 PM
I like the idea of having to break a window or something to get inside. I don't think a spy should just be able to walk in. Some sort of noise or hack signal needs to show.
me2, better than infiltrating like every map through a vent XD
so let's go back on topic: what other, non-mine related problems do you foresee? what other ideas for doors do you guys have? @devs: what is possible without too much effort?
Well, activating a door (rotating or sliding) is really easy to achieve with UE3, but a rotating door like R6 or SPlinter Cell in the solo is something else. I never tried that, anyone did?
I do not think that doors are really necessary, most of the CT doors are transparent (glass or plastic, can't tell), but we also saw metal doors... but PS isn't CT so, who knows.
The way doors are designed/placed/NOT placed have a big effect on a way that an area is balanced. If that balance can remain, variety of doors can be achieved, AND you can bash them and such, it would be awesome.
Quote from: Papa Skull on April 27, 2008, 09:41:02 PM
The way doors are designed/placed/NOT placed have a big effect on a way that an area is balanced. If that balance can remain, variety of doors can be achieved, AND you can bash them and such, it would be awesome.
Yeah I would enjoy a lot to bash, make them explode, roll into, etc... 'em. Action! 3... 2... 1 GO!
Surf/ grind on it? ;D
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