Split JuMp
Not really a big deal but i believe this topic covers it all , do you think its possible to make it to one singular jump because.. i personally found it soo annoying they messed up in Chaostheory with that having to doubletap jump when you just wanna perform one action . quickly and painlessly ..
System Malfunction
For when a spy shoots the merc in the back of the head when hes asleep, is that gunna be fixed too so that
the merc can't see his hud when he wakes up.. they messed that up also in chaos theory anyway , this is my twocents to breath new thoughts / ideas into this forum . Instead of all this banter back n forth on one topic xD
We might be able to make splitjump another key or... even better... use the double-jump mechanism of UT3 to find the apex of the jump and then run our own splitjump code instead of the double jump code so it's easier to splitjump.
If the models allow, yes, of course.
Hasn't been discussed to death? Maybe. Sorry if I'm mistaken, could have been somewhere else I was talking about this. Ubi forums back in the day? Anyways, I'd think this would be very welcome.
But Gaiz!! I was tinkking, maybe dat when a spyz wantxz to jump bai a spl1t jumpp & duz not wannt to splittt jumpp he presses the botton once and duz a slpit joomp on axidetnz!
they nerfed the shooting mercs head while he is unconscious quite deliberately. Honestly, I can see why.
Quote from: goodkebab on May 26, 2008, 09:54:46 AM
they nerfed the shooting mercs head while he is unconscious quite deliberately. Honestly, I can see why.
i dunno if thats true or not.. but a headshot .. is a headshot.. be it standing or on the ground =/.
Why does split jump not always work? Sometimes when you double tap, the spy puts one leg up and then doesnt put the other one out :S
Does shooting in the head actually work? I always seem to have a hud when i stand up and people do that to me.
Btw, i know how to put a merc into a coma (:D) in Ct, maybe this should be included in PS :P (Jk guys Jk!)
This was actually counting down, as in further into the minus numbers!
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi282.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fkk268%2Fanaperkovic%2Fscctmp-20080524-204829.jpg&hash=edc0ba76dda3a3820fd002f06a254bc6ef2ebbd6)
(try healing your teammate when he charges you 0_o)
i'm fine with split jump controls, though it's
1) not intuitive enough that you have to look at the wall
2) wall jump should be possible everywhere
the ss-headshot is totally overpowered anyways, just reduce the no-hud/sniping timer from 10s to 5s and make it the same on the ground (timer starting right after ss-shot: balanced because the spy would have to stay/come back next to the merc till he wakes up to accomplish any real effect).
I think a good fix to split jump would be having to stand still and hold the jump button. You can't exactly be moving and hold the jump button for it to work. If you're running at a wall and hold jump you flip back off of it. If you're standing still next to a "split-jumpable wall" Then I think just holding the jump button would be the easy fix as opposed to making it a different button all together.
I don't think the ss headshot is op, at all. If there is no reward for shooting the merc in the head there is no reason to aim for it because the body is a much bigger target.
As for split jumps. I know it's been discussed to death, but what about the half split jump? That would be awesome. The maps would have to be designed with narrow corridors where the spy can slowly climb his way up. Does anyone also think that the maps should be a bit more vertical than CT's maps?
@westfall: the only thing bad about splitjump controls is that most people don't know that they simply have to look at the wall to make it work. making that "hitbox" a little bit bigger and explaining this mechanic in the tutorial should take care of this problem.
@papaskull:
i don't want to take away the whole benefit of a ss-headshot, but 10s with no hud/sniping possibility is just an insanely long time.
i'm fine with a half-splitjump connected with new climbing possibilities, but it's probably too much animation work.
i don't want maps to become any more vertical because it would result in nothing but super-mario-brothers with an insanely advantage for the spies.
Quote from: Rambo on May 26, 2008, 08:32:28 PM
@westfall: the only thing bad about splitjump controls is that most people don't know that they simply have to look at the wall to make it work. making that "hitbox" a little bit bigger and explaining this mechanic in the tutorial should take care of this problem.
1.) Split jump works better if you (the spy) look in 90Ã,° from the wall.
2.) Split jump works unreliable, sometimes it won't work, even tough you did the exact same thing you did the last time.
3.) that's whats wrong with splitjump.
i just weng ingame to test it and you're right, you just have to stay next to the wall in about a 90Ã,° angle to it. i tried 20 quick splitjumps and did 19 of it, so i began wondering why i couldn't do that as a newb. what i found out is that i sub-consciously was hammering on the jump button like crazy while performing the move. when i tried to do it with only 3 button-hits, it failed over 50% of the time. so i don't think standing in the right angle is the problem, but the jump-button timing and lack of explanation in a tutorial.
Quote from: Rambo on May 26, 2008, 09:24:52 PM
i just weng ingame to test it and you're right, you just have to stay next to the wall in about a 90Ã,° angle to it. i tried 20 quick splitjumps and did 19 of it, so i began wondering why i couldn't do that as a newb. what i found out is that i sub-consciously was hammering on the jump button like crazy while performing the move. when i tried to do it with only 3 button-hits, it failed over 50% of the time. so i don't think standing in the right angle is the problem, but the jump-button timing and lack of explanation in a tutorial.
yep, that's right!
Quote from: Rambo on May 26, 2008, 08:32:28 PM
@westfall: the only thing bad about splitjump controls is that most people don't know that they simply have to look at the wall to make it work. making that "hitbox" a little bit bigger and explaining this mechanic in the tutorial should take care of this problem.
@papaskull:
i don't want to take away the whole benefit of a ss-headshot, but 10s with no hud/sniping possibility is just an insanely long time.
i'm fine with a half-splitjump connected with new climbing possibilities, but it's probably too much animation work.
i don't want maps to become any more vertical because it would result in nothing but super-mario-brothers with an insanely advantage for the spies.
Unless the spies spawn below and it's easy for mercs to go up. Especially with snipers, the mercs could have an advantage of high ground. Almost like Orphanage at the start of the game. Of course not all maps should be designed like this but I think there should definitely be some sections that go high up. With elevators, stairs, ropes, bridges, zip lines (what if there were some zips that mercs could use?)... To me all the CT maps felt rather flat. And for high flying spies with incredible agility, I find that pretty annoying tbh. To have all this ability but nowhere to use it, know what I mean? I liked the height of Station, Orphange, Factory, Steel Squat, and Sector 1 of Warehouse.
...i can do it 10/10 with 2 space hits (own server, with lags it's harder - 7/10), just like it was in pandora. The only change i noticed is the angle you need to approach the wall at.
Agent...when I go zzz and get shot in the head I lose my hud. Everytime....you can hear the spy shooting you. Wake up...no hud. It probbly doesn't work sometimes, but I always get the worse end of the stick.
I think the 10sec hud loss is alright, I actually wouldn't mind it staying the same.
I'd like a single key splitjump. The main problem with SJ isn't so much doing it, but doing it quietly. It'd be nice if split jump could be implemented as a true quiet stealth move.
Agreed, same with the half split jump, if that gets the okay ofc. My main problem with it is that there is like nowhere to do it. Well there are some places but they are never good places to use SJ. It's useless atm, and I hope the map designers like Zed do a good job of making those split jump places useful.
one thing you all missed ,is that i noticed sometimes the split jump doesn't always work and relies on how high your fps is .. =/
Quote from: Papa Skull on May 27, 2008, 04:29:19 AM
Agreed, same with the half split jump, if that gets the okay ofc. My main problem with it is that there is like nowhere to do it. Well there are some places but they are never good places to use SJ. It's useless atm, and I hope the map designers like Zed do a good job of making those split jump places useful.
Yeah, that's for sure.
The main problem I think is that those narrow corridors favor the merc so much. A merc can basically stand in the middle of a split jump corridor and there's no way to get past him. Because the small corridors didn't really lend themselves to a great play experience, I think the map makers for CT decided to pretty much ignore the split jump.
Seriously though, I probably wouldn't even mind if it was left out of PS. It may end up not even be worth the animation.
Quote from: InvisibleMan999 on May 27, 2008, 09:15:38 AM
Quote from: Papa Skull on May 27, 2008, 04:29:19 AM
Agreed, same with the half split jump, if that gets the okay ofc. My main problem with it is that there is like nowhere to do it. Well there are some places but they are never good places to use SJ. It's useless atm, and I hope the map designers like Zed do a good job of making those split jump places useful.
Yeah, that's for sure.
The main problem I think is that those narrow corridors favor the merc so much. A merc can basically stand in the middle of a split jump corridor and there's no way to get past him. Because the small corridors didn't really lend themselves to a great play experience, I think the map makers for CT decided to pretty much ignore the split jump.
Seriously though, I probably wouldn't even mind if it was left out of PS. It may end up not even be worth the animation.
kk this is where i stop the train of thought.
@ invisible , it is worth it because there has been soo many times where im running from a merc and a split jump is accessible.. do it quick enough and the merc thinks uve gone down that corridor.
@ papaskull , in terms of chaos theory ya they didn't make too many places where to split jump on chaos theory maps specificially.. but I however can name 1 of em where you can do so.. and that would be missle strike.
does performing a split jump trigger the merc's reticule?
small corridors are good for the gameplay/balance in some spots because they add a new tactical element to the map and quite efficiently stop obvious aggro bullshit.
I just thought that if 2 spies get on both sides of the merc he doesn't have much area to avoid the spies and to hide his back. But in general yeah, tight passages nerf aggro guys. And that's fine for some parts for balancing maps.
1 way map designers could make it useful is by making the backgrounds of the split jump area all black or shadowed, this way it's much easier for a merc to miss a split jumping spy.
yeah darkness in that area would help, though in most small corridors there are lamps at the ceiling.
That's where camo comes in.
Quote from: Papa Skull on May 27, 2008, 05:07:53 PMtight passages nerf aggro guys.
Well, that depends. If the passage is crucial, then aggro is pretty much the only option - which nerfs stealth.
I mean, try sneaking past a merc who's guarding a tight hallway.
Quote from: AgentX_003 on May 27, 2008, 09:36:47 AM
@ invisible , it is worth it because there has been soo many times where im running from a merc and a split jump is accessible.. do it quick enough and the merc thinks uve gone down that corridor.
Really, any time I've tried a split jump, I've got my ass kicked. It works like this. When you're running from a merc and you suddenly stop (aka stop pinigng the reticule), a good merc has a decent idea of where you stopped running and is going to search that area. Mostly he's searching for you doing a back to the wall or setting up an ambush. But he could also easily find split jumps too.
Quote
does performing a split jump trigger the merc's reticule?
I'm not honestly sure if the act of a split jump triggers the reticule, I've never tested it. It's kind of pointless though since you've got to be running to do a split jump (which most certainly does ping the reticule). Now maybe there are some uber pros out there who can split jump in just the perfect amount of distance without actually making noise, I don't know.
But personally if we include SJ, I'd like to make it a little easier to do and something you can easily do from stealth 100% of the time without making noise.
If it makes any noise, it's useless.
As far as small tight corridors, they're okay if they're used for merc routes, but the spy really does need another way around. A good use for them was in Schermerhorn leading to the camera room and up to the other objective. It was a place that mercs probably werent' going to patrol actively, but you still got screwed if you were caught in there.
afaik you don't have to be running to do a splitjump, changing position to "standing" is sufficient (maybe the xbox controls are gay in that matter).
the only place the split jump worked well for me against good players is museum cafe corridor with some smoke spam.
Quote from: Rambo on May 27, 2008, 08:44:24 PM
afaik you don't have to be running to do a splitjump, changing position to "standing" is sufficient (maybe the xbox controls are gay in that matter).
the only place the split jump worked well for me against good players is museum cafe corridor with some smoke spam.
you don't even have to be standing, you can aswell pull it off from the crouched position. I love to get stealth Split-jump-kills. Happens rarely, but is hilarious!
Quote from: Cyntrox on May 27, 2008, 06:53:08 PM
Quote from: Papa Skull on May 27, 2008, 05:07:53 PMtight passages nerf aggro guys.
Well, that depends. If the passage is crucial, then aggro is pretty much the only option - which nerfs stealth.
I mean, try sneaking past a merc who's guarding a tight hallway.
Well, that depends also. Try aggroing past a merc in a tight hallway. I guess narrow hallways nerf spies in general. But narrow hallways could also present new half split jump climbing abilities for spies. It's hard to really tell what they'd do to gameplay. :-\
really tight corridors like in in museum cafe inside are bad for important map bottlenecks for sure, but i don't know of any in those positions...
Quote from: AgentX_003 on May 26, 2008, 11:24:18 AM
Quote from: goodkebab on May 26, 2008, 09:54:46 AM
they nerfed the shooting mercs head while he is unconscious quite deliberately. Honestly, I can see why.
i dunno if thats true or not.. but a headshot .. is a headshot.. be it standing or on the ground =/.
A jump on a merc is a jump on a merc regardless of whether he's standing up or sleeping on the ground, that doesn't necessarily mean you should be able to damage him by jumping on him endlessly while he's asleep, same terminology with sleeping headshot :P.