CT has a kind of weird zoom, if you know what I mean. No other game I've played has it. The cursor is almost wobbly. When I think of CT sniping, I imagine this wobbly sort of aimer. So, are you guys planning on keeping it this way, or changing it to something like TF2, where the cursor is perfectly still?
Sniping should require some skill, and therefore I think there should be wobbling. If you haven't played any other game with wobbly cursors when you zoom in, you obviously haven't played many games. I still think breath holding should be in too, but it's not my decision.
Quote from: Papa Skull on May 29, 2008, 06:07:04 AM
Sniping should require some skill, and therefore I think there should be bobbling. If you haven't played any other game with bobbly cursors when you zoom in, you obviously haven't played many Sniper based games. I still think breath holding should be in too, but it's not my decision.
this theory proves true , prime example hitman .. it bobs up n down cause of the weight of the gun on your shoulder :P
I don't understand why you edited my post. :D
It's like me doing this:
Quote from: AgentX_003 on May 29, 2008, 06:48:40 AM
this theory proves correct , good example hitman .. it wobs up n down because of the weight of the gun on your shoulder :P
hehe
Yeah, I don't really like CT's zoom + hold breath much. Mostly because it doesn't really affect the pros, and really hurts the newbies. If you can aim fast, then you're able to easily get a shot off before the hold breath expires. If you aim slow, then holding your breath expires and you get screwed because of it. Overall, not a great system. You don't really need to reward fast aiming anymore. If you aim slow, then the drawback is that you aim slow. You really don't need to screw with the guys reticule.
One thing I think should happen with regards to CT sniping is that there should be some drift right when you enter zoom mode. That is your crosshair in sniping shouldn't be exactly where it was on the screen when you hit zoom, it should get randomly moved around a bit. That's a good way to add some difficulty to sniping.
wobbling is in most games with snipe....
What makes CT sniping so damned dangerous compared to just about any other FPS is that you can move aim reticle seperate from the actual wobble. This allows for very fast twitch movements for getting 2-3 snipes off on a running spy without actually moving the cone of vision
and btw: nobody uses hold breath
Quote from: goodkebab on May 29, 2008, 09:18:27 AM
wobbling is in most games with snipe....
What makes CT sniping so damned dangerous compared to just about any other FPS is that you can move aim reticle seperate from the actual wobble. This allows for very fast twitch movements for getting 2-3 snipes off on a running spy without actually moving the cone of vision
and btw: nobody uses hold breath
Correction .. I do know one player that used to and that would be Gangxta , Damxiel's Partner for now thats all i can think of , but if I do find out more , ill edit this post =)
No one good uses it.
exactly. once again, a console player shows us how few he knows about the pc version...
Quote from: goodkebab on May 29, 2008, 09:18:27 AM
and btw: nobody uses hold breath
But it's cool to know you can use this feature. It doesnt require much manpower to implement, does it ?
like papa once mentioned, cod4 sniping is pretty ok.
I think that style would be good for this game, don't you guys think?
Quote from: goodkebab on May 29, 2008, 09:18:27 AM
and btw: nobody uses hold breath
Seriously? Hmm.. weird.
I guess that shows how little I use the rifle. heh.
Quote from: Rambo on May 29, 2008, 11:36:05 AM
exactly. once again, a console player shows us how few he knows about the pc version...
Having a limited sensitivity speed on X-Box makes the Mercs more balance compared to the PC version, because it's based on the balanced on the Spy movement speed.
But when you deal with PC players, they will cry if the aim is slower than Quake 3 so.. no choice... give them some speed... :-*
Quote from: goodkebab on May 29, 2008, 09:18:27 AMand btw: nobody uses hold breath
Well, even though the feature isn't used a lot, I still think it should be implentet in PS. Sometimes you really need it, when you for an example has to shoot through a small hole, where a spy would be impossible to hit, if your crosshair was flying around.
And if anything, I like the sniping in CT. It may be a bit screwed, but it somehow fits the gameplay.
Quote from: goodkebab on May 29, 2008, 09:18:27 AM
What makes CT sniping so damned dangerous compared to just about any other FPS is that you can move aim reticle seperate from the actual wobble.
I really love this part of CT sniping, and I think it would be awesome to bring it into PS.
Quote from: Papa Skull on May 29, 2008, 06:07:04 AM
Sniping should require some skill, and therefore I think there should be wobbling. If you haven't played any other game with wobbly cursors when you zoom in, you obviously haven't played many games. I still think breath holding should be in too, but it's not my decision.
Wrong, he means how its wierd when you move your scope when you're not holding your breath. How only your crosshair moves (asif you can bend bullets) and not your scope view. IMO this should be fixed, so its like RL, your scope view, and crosshair stay fixed, and the crosshair stays in the CENTER of the scope.
Quote from: MR.Mic on May 29, 2008, 08:36:38 PM
Quote from: goodkebab on May 29, 2008, 09:18:27 AM
What makes CT sniping so damned dangerous compared to just about any other FPS is that you can move aim reticle seperate from the actual wobble.
I really love this part of CT sniping, and I think it would be awesome to bring it into PS.
When i first got ct and zoomed my first impression was "omg wtf is wrong with this retarded sniper". I cant stand it.
Wrong, Freeman, wrong.
CT's snipe is MEANT to be like this, because of the snapshot action that takes place.
Just imagine it being different - your whole view turining to chase a spy? that'd be a huge pain, not only to keep sight on the spy, but also to provide a really fast-reaction demanding sniper rifle.
The concept behind CT mercs is that the Hud is not the scope of your rifle but actually the hud of your visor.
Why is there the 'aiming' animation then?
Quote from: Liqu1D_133 on May 29, 2008, 10:37:39 PM
Wrong, Freeman, wrong.
CT's snipe is MEANT to be like this, because of the snapshot action that takes place.
Just imagine it being different - your whole view turining to chase a spy? that'd be a huge pain, not only to keep sight on the spy, but also to provide a really fast-reaction demanding sniper rifle.
Theres something called sensitivity. CSS sniping is perfect, and thats like twice as fast as ct.
Quote from: goodkebab on May 29, 2008, 10:39:47 PM
The concept behind CT mercs is that the Hud is not the scope of your rifle but actually the hud of your visor.
Ahh yeh i forgot about that. I still dont like it though.
Quote from: FR33M4N on May 29, 2008, 11:24:29 PM
Theres something called sensitivity. CSS sniping is perfect, and thats like twice as fast as ct.
Yeah, you forgot the hitboxes.
Anyhow, i hate cs's snipe - it's just too easy to hit anybody.
1. It hasn't any wobbling
2. It doesn't take any time to get into snipe
3. The hitboxes.
Yeah, oddly enough, I like the way it is in CT. But the way it is in COD4 would be best imho. Maybe a poll is in order to give the devs a good idea of what people want, even if they don't really care, hahaha.
How, exactly, is it in COD?
Well it's a wobble, but it can be controlled, but a breath hold system that makes it even easier to control, hard to explain how it's different than CT's system. Maybe you should watch a vid of it or play the game, it's a great game so I recommend you get it anyways. At least until it gets boring after 4-5 months.
It got boring after i got lvl 55 ::)
I never spoke of the breathing effect... I was talking about how the cursor is not always in the middle, it kind of drags. That's what I meant by wobbly.
Yeah, I know you never spoke of it. I did. That would suck to have no breath holding but a wobbly cursor. Although not exactly like CT's, because you could still snipe without breath holding because where you aim would break the wobbliness lol... A sniper in COD4 knows it's much harder to aim while not focused. I played that game so much I could take a sniper in a TDM and come out 30 and 1.
I think that this type of game really matches that sort of sniping. Can't really explain what it is about it that makes them go together so well, but I can't imagine PS sniping like anything other than CT. Please tell me it stayes! :-\
Sniping doesnt need any amping up....it already does double damage making it the most dangerous of either Uzi or Shotgun in the hands of someone that knows how to use it.
Add the fact that you have the twitch movement allowing for very quick movements and all of the Rifle Nazis should have no reason to complain about people that prefer other weapons.
Quote from: goodkebab on May 30, 2008, 10:07:10 AM
Sniping doesnt need any amping up....it already does double damage making it the most dangerous of either Uzi or Shotgun in the hands of someone that knows how to use it.
Add the fact that you have the twitch movement allowing for very quick movements and all of the Rifle Nazis should have no reason to complain about people that prefer other weapons.
but then again , some people do have a point of having one weapon, it eliminates all the bickering. ya have one weapon , your stuck with it / deal with it.
There's no point in that Agent. Why not give a perfectly balanced selection of weapons to the player? Nothing wrong with that. It was already decided by the devs so we should stop this discussion before it reaches 3 posts lmao
Quote from: goodkebab on May 30, 2008, 10:07:10 AM
Sniping doesnt need any amping up....it already does double damage making it the most dangerous of either Uzi or Shotgun in the hands of someone that knows how to use it.
Add the fact that you have the twitch movement allowing for very quick movements and all of the Rifle Nazis should have no reason to complain about people that prefer other weapons.
Sorry to care about the gun situation in the game. Its not complaining about others preferring other weapons. In fact, it never has been that. Its about balance and logic for THIS type of game.
So there is no real point in discussing CT issues....but we can certainly discuss PS issues once we have something for you guys to beta test.
these complaints have everything to do with CT and never had anything to do with PS.
i think ct sniping was pretty unique and fine, though something should be done about the hold-breath function: either remove it or make it useful.
@goodkebap and whoever mockering on the 3vs1 weapon thingy:
1) don't call a discussion on an important topic "complaining"
2) this isn't about ct or ps, it's about svm and some logic
3) there's a dedicated thread for this topic, so go there
Quote from: Westfall on May 30, 2008, 07:11:30 PM
Quote from: goodkebab on May 30, 2008, 10:07:10 AM
Sniping doesnt need any amping up....it already does double damage making it the most dangerous of either Uzi or Shotgun in the hands of someone that knows how to use it.
Add the fact that you have the twitch movement allowing for very quick movements and all of the Rifle Nazis should have no reason to complain about people that prefer other weapons.
Sorry to care about the gun situation in the game. Its not complaining about others preferring other weapons. In fact, it never has been that. Its about balance and logic for THIS type of game.
Yeah, so balance the other 3 weapons and we're all fine and dandy.
As I said, this about the merc zoom. Nothing much to discuss imo. It seems like the majority like it the way it is but want a more useful breathing feature.
Quote from: Papa Skull on May 30, 2008, 11:42:16 PM
Quote from: Westfall on May 30, 2008, 07:11:30 PM
Quote from: goodkebab on May 30, 2008, 10:07:10 AM
Sniping doesnt need any amping up....it already does double damage making it the most dangerous of either Uzi or Shotgun in the hands of someone that knows how to use it.
Add the fact that you have the twitch movement allowing for very quick movements and all of the Rifle Nazis should have no reason to complain about people that prefer other weapons.
Sorry to care about the gun situation in the game. Its not complaining about others preferring other weapons. In fact, it never has been that. Its about balance and logic for THIS type of game.
Yeah, so balance the other 3 weapons and we're all fine and dandy.
As I said, this about the merc zoom. Nothing much to discuss imo. It seems like the majority like it the way it is but want a more useful breathing feature.
mmmmm.......
The merc zoom doesn't need a change. Its been fine. DA sucked. I haven't seen or played COD4 yet.
Quote from: goodkebab on May 30, 2008, 10:07:10 AM
Sniping doesnt need any amping up....it already does double damage making it the most dangerous of either Uzi or Shotgun in the hands of someone that knows how to use it.
Add the fact that you have the twitch movement allowing for very quick movements and all of the Rifle Nazis should have no reason to complain about people that prefer other weapons.
Yeah, if anything sniping is too powerful as it is now, at least in the hands of a good player.
The fact that all the pros choose rifle should be an indication that maybe it should be toned down a bit.
Quote from: InvisibleMan999 on May 31, 2008, 10:07:49 AM
Yeah, if anything sniping is too powerful as it is now, at least in the hands of a good player.
The fact that all the pros choose rifle should be an indication that maybe it should be toned down a bit.
no it's not. and the pros don't take rifle because of that but because of the lag bs uzi causes and the totally broken shotty.
Quote from: Rambo on May 31, 2008, 05:50:25 PM
Quote from: InvisibleMan999 on May 31, 2008, 10:07:49 AM
Yeah, if anything sniping is too powerful as it is now, at least in the hands of a good player.
The fact that all the pros choose rifle should be an indication that maybe it should be toned down a bit.
no it's not. and the pros don't take rifle because of that but because of the lag bs uzi causes and the totally broken shotty.
If pros were so smart wouldn't they take the "oh so overpowered" uzi? Just make the other 2 weapons balanced, or useful, and there's no problem.
Quote from: Rambo on May 31, 2008, 05:50:25 PM
no it's not. and the pros don't take rifle because of that but because of the lag bs uzi causes and the totally broken shotty.
Oh bull. Pros take the best gun they can find. That's how it works in all games. Most of the time when there's a glitch of some kind, it just becomes part of the game for a pro player.
Pros use the rifle because they think it's better. And that's all there is to it. And I think that the rifle is the best weapon in the hands of a pro. As "Crazy broken" as the uzi might be, it's not going to instakill a spy across the level. Yes, the rifle takes the most skill to use since you've got to be precise in sniping, but if you're good with it, then hands down, it's the most powerful weapon in the game. A shotty or uzi expert just isn't going to come close to the stuff you can do with the rifle. So you can forget about the whole bullshit about how pros use the rifle because they want to challenge themselves or something. They use the rifle because the rifle is the best weapon in the game in the hands of a pro.
Seriously Rambo, when was the last time you've ever used an uzi? It's not the brutal death machine gun that you make it out to be.
In fact, whenever I play against pros, I'd definitely want them to take the uzi over the rifle. Go ahead, be cheap and use the lag BS, at least you've still got to get close enough to me to take me down with it.
I find it amazing that this is like the 10th time we'll have to explain this to him.
Quote from: Papa Skull on May 30, 2008, 05:09:19 PM
There's no point in that Agent. Why not give a perfectly balanced selection of weapons to the player? Nothing wrong with that. It was already decided by the devs so we should stop this discussion before it reaches 3 posts lmao
It's easier to balance one weapon in relation to the maps and gadgets than three.
yeah, but we've got some people who know what they're doing. It's been decided, and it is what will happen. Why keep discussing it? And yeah, I'll stop as well.
Quote from: Savior20061 on June 01, 2008, 12:24:29 AM
Quote from: Papa Skull on May 30, 2008, 05:09:19 PM
There's no point in that Agent. Why not give a perfectly balanced selection of weapons to the player? Nothing wrong with that. It was already decided by the devs so we should stop this discussion before it reaches 3 posts lmao
It's easier to balance one weapon in relation to the maps and gadgets than three.
It's easier to play Tetris.
don't make fun of it. keeping basic mechanics simple is the key to a well-balanced game.
Quote from: Savior20061 on June 01, 2008, 12:24:29 AM
It's easier to balance one weapon in relation to the maps and gadgets than three.
Yeah, obviously a game is easier to balance, the fewer options you give people. But the answer isn't to start taking away options from everyone. Next we know people will be advocating having the gadgets fixed like in DA, where every merc has to take frags, mines, mask and tazer.
Weapon balance on maps is something that balances itself, because people can choose weapons after seeing what the map is, so not every gun has to be awesome on every map. If you think the weapon sucks on a given map, then don't take it.
Quote from: Rambo on June 01, 2008, 07:15:36 PM
don't make fun of it. keeping basic mechanics simple is the key to a well-balanced game.
Twas the downfall of DA. ;)
Quote from: InvisibleMan999 on June 01, 2008, 08:05:22 PM
Yeah, obviously a game is easier to balance, the fewer options you give people. But the answer isn't to start taking away options from everyone. Next we know people will be advocating having the gadgets fixed like in DA, where every merc has to take frags, mines, mask and tazer.
Weapon balance on maps is something that balances itself, because people can choose weapons after seeing what the map is, so not every gun has to be awesome on every map. If you think the weapon sucks on a given map, then don't take it.
serious question: didn't you read my points in the 3vs1 weapon thread or are you an idiot?
CAN THIS GO ON-TOPIC NOW???
for instsance, how about discussing the ideal unease and the idea effect of hold-breath?
Quote from: InvisibleMan999 on May 31, 2008, 09:56:16 PM
Quote from: Rambo on May 31, 2008, 05:50:25 PM
no it's not. and the pros don't take rifle because of that but because of the lag bs uzi causes and the totally broken shotty.
Oh bull. Pros take the best gun they can find. That's how it works in all games. Most of the time when there's a glitch of some kind, it just becomes part of the game for a pro player. Not with this type of game. Use a glitch in my server and I will lobby and boot you. Some can't be dealt with, but some can.
Pros use the rifle because they think it's better. No, pros use rifle because it makes the game less boring. And that's all there is to it. And I think that the rifle is the best weapon in the hands of a pro. As "Crazy broken" as the uzi might be, it's not going to instakill a spy across the level. No, instead it will insta kill anything remotely close to the merc. Whether its a spy trying to tazz, climb, jump, crawl through a vent, or run...they will be killed by the uzi because of how stuck they get in the spray.Yes, the rifle takes the most skill to use since you've got to be precise in sniping, but if you're good with it, then hands down, it's the most powerful weapon in the game. A shotty or uzi expert just isn't going to come close to the stuff you can do with the rifle. So you can forget about the whole bullshit about how pros use the rifle because they want to challenge themselves or something. I use the rifle because I don't believe in bullshit. They use the rifle because the rifle is the best weapon in the game in the hands of a pro.
Seriously Rambo, when was the last time you've ever used an uzi? It's not the brutal death machine gun that you make it out to be. Yes, yes it is...
In fact, whenever I play against pros, I'd definitely want them to take the uzi over the rifle. Go ahead, be cheap and use the lag BS, at least you've still got to get close enough to me to take me down with it.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I don't agree with Rambo a lot, but I was definitely for the 1 weapon because it would be easier to balance. Its not like we don't understand the dev's decision in keeping the 3 weapons. What would seem more ideal would be the 1 weapon selection. I am intrigued to see what happens with a fixed shotty and uzi.
As far as holding breath, when I've tried shooting a rifle when holding my breath. If anything, it causes more jitters than jusrt relaxing and taking the shot without adding tension. CT had the right idea with the wavering because it seemed realistic. I don't think the CT snipe should really be manipulated or it will turn into the AWP of CSS.
Quote from: Westfall on June 01, 2008, 09:21:57 PM
I don't agree with Rambo a lot, but I was definitely for the 1 weapon because it would be easier to balance. Its not like we don't understand the dev's decision in keeping the 3 weapons. What would seem more ideal would be the 1 weapon selection. I am intrigued to see what happens with a fixed shotty and uzi.
I'm really not sure what is so unbalanced about 3 weapons. The rifle out of all three weapons changes the game dynamic more so than either of the other two weapons. It's one thing if your base gun was an uzi and you were adding sniping capability, because that changes balance. But in a game where you're suggesting having a sniping rifle as a base, it's just silly.
The uzi or shotty doesn't do anything the rifle can't do, they just do certain things better. And they don't really alter game play much.
Sniping on the other hand is a feature that alters the gameplay alot, therefore it has to be handled with the most care out of anything weapon related.