Project Stealth

Pick your answer.

after reconsidering my view i come to the conclusion that letting hbs drain energy doesn't make much difference for good players. so move one vote from "none should drain" and to "hbs should drain". i can only think of 2 occasions it might change something at high levels:
-trying to go into camo directly after using it
-using hbs to time a quickcam camper-style
so yeah, hbs should drain energy. but i guess if that suggestion came from me no1 would agree on it cause it makes life for newcomers harder.

Holy Burger Slime should drain power!

Don't use abbreviations before stating them first -.-

every long-term ct player/forum member knows what hbs stands for, so why bother?

Quote from: Rambo on September 06, 2008, 04:13:33 PM
every long-term ct player/forum member knows what hbs stands for, so why bother?

I've played since Splinter Cell 1, and I've never heard anybody ever mention HBS.

The reason hbs is used so much is that it works also sort of as an anti lag device. When you are trying to shock someone shocking in the direction of the red dot is more effective than trying to hit actual merc model. It also lets you stay away from the merc and etc. These are basically the only reasons I used it in ct. With ps being a little less laggier I can see people using hbs less and it being less "overpowered" as some people think it is. So the asnwer is no to draining battery power.

Posted about camnet in the other thread.

Quote from: kronf on September 10, 2008, 08:18:42 PM
The reason hbs is used so much is that it works also sort of as an anti lag device. When you are trying to shock someone shocking in the direction of the red dot is more effective than trying to hit actual merc model. It also lets you stay away from the merc and etc. These are basically the only reasons I used it in ct. With ps being a little less laggier I can see people using hbs less and it being less "overpowered" as some people think it is. So the asnwer is no to draining battery power.

Posted about camnet in the other thread.

Also if the annoying "feature" on spy bullets is fixed where mercs don't show up on radar, and perhaps a limit to their removal is taken away, we will see them used more often.

Hmm, I don't think I've ever encountered this bug when mercs dont show up on radar while using spy bullets. And by removal limit do you mean them disappearing over a period of time?

yeah bullets should last forever unless removed manually unless you wanna nerf hbs quite a bit.
using hbs to deal better with lag is a new one for me XD

Quote from: kronf on September 11, 2008, 12:25:06 AM
Hmm, I don't think I've ever encountered this bug when mercs dont show up on radar while using spy bullets. And by removal limit do you mean them disappearing over a period of time?

Nope. I mean that currently, mercs can remove spy bullets the instant you tag them as many times as they want. That ability should either be removed entirely, or at the very least limited somehow (1 per life or once every X minutes).

It's not really a bug -- happens when the mercs stand still I think. Either way, bullets are much less consistent, are loud, are limited to 5, and can be removed by the mercs, making them have many more drawbacks than the HBS.

I personally don't think that any selectable gadgets should have infinite use.

Quote from: Spekkio on September 11, 2008, 01:07:49 AM

Quote from: kronf on September 11, 2008, 12:25:06 AM
Hmm, I don't think I've ever encountered this bug when mercs dont show up on radar while using spy bullets. And by removal limit do you mean them disappearing over a period of time?

Nope. I mean that currently, mercs can remove spy bullets the instant you tag them as many times as they want. That ability should either be removed entirely, or at the very least limited somehow (1 per life or once every X minutes).

It's not really a bug -- happens when the mercs stand still I think. Either way, bullets are much less inconsistent, are loud, are limited to 5, and can be removed by the mercs, making them have many more drawbacks than the HBS.

I personally don't think that any selectable gadgets should have infinite use.

I do think that if you're going to get backpack from your partner that it should still show up on their screen so they can let you know you've been tagged. Myabe by putting the laser on them or something. No removal, but just awareness.

I have no problem with that at all.

who voted yes for both of them? xD

they should still be removable considering how powerful they are on a merc. besides, it's a nice tactical element. i'd rather boost them by making them show static mercs and work forever (or at least way longer) unless removed.
oh and i have 2 ideas that are at least interesting:
-to remove bullets from your mate you have to find them first (bullet sticking to the merc model)
-ability to shoot a bullet on your teammate so that he works as a running radar (got that idea from bf2142 where u can put sensors not only on the ground, but also on vehicles)

Just leave HBS alone there's nothing wrong with it, and camnet shouldn't exist.

Just make bullets track one full minute, and hibernate whenever there isn't any activity around them. They'd still be useful in tough spots but wouldn't fail as a forward warning system either.

Quote from: Kurbutti on September 11, 2008, 10:56:45 PM
Just make bullets track one full minute, and hibernate whenever there isn't any activity around them. They'd still be useful in tough spots but wouldn't fail as a forward warning system either.

that's a whole new and really interesting timer approach. like energy drain for giving the signal...

Quote from: Rambo on September 11, 2008, 02:33:54 PM
they should still be removable considering how powerful they are on a merc.

They aren't that powerful, and removal is oftentimes very easy to accomplish.

Quote from: Spekkio on September 12, 2008, 01:22:42 AM
They aren't that powerful, and removal is oftentimes very easy to accomplish.

so having the merc always on your radar isn't powerful (+hack comm. feature)? oO

It's useful, but not so useful that the mercs need a removal feature that can be performed at any point for an infinite number of times, which oftentimes completely nullifies the gadget.

Also, hack comms is more of a gag feature than something that the spies can really use to their advantage. As merc, though, it comes in handy.

it can't be performed at any point, just like getting stuff from your mate's backpack can't if the situation doesn't allow for it. if it couldn't be removed mutually, it would have no weakness at all against aggro and semi-aggro players (they have to taze you anyways) unless you further nerf their duration or amount.

Quote from: Rambo on September 12, 2008, 03:37:25 AM
it can't be performed at any point, just like getting stuff from your mate's backpack can't if the situation doesn't allow for it. if it couldn't be removed mutually, it would have no weakness at all against aggro and semi-aggro players (they have to taze you anyways) unless you further nerf their duration or amount.

Bullets are moot for aggro players because they usually have the mercs somewhere on their screen without needing a radar.

For stealth players, bullets give away your position, and, in the case of taggin the mercs, need to be done from a direct LOS. I think that's a pretty significant weakness, and paired with the limited duration, is all that's necessary.

i wouldn't change much tbh. i'd just make them show static mercs and work longer on the ground than they do now. maybe kurbutti's idea would come in handy there, i dunno. i really have too few experience with them to know if and what needs to get changed.

I like the idea of tagging a merc with the bullet and leaving it there. Rambo, you can't bring up the VOIP issue of hacking comms when you yourself use teamspeak, as many other people do. If thats a big issue, then why not just take it away from bullets?

it's only a minor fun-feature, i just wrote it to bring everything up comprehensively. sorry if it caused confusion.

Quote from: Rambo on September 12, 2008, 04:13:59 AM
i wouldn't change much tbh. i'd just make them show static mercs and work longer on the ground than they do now. maybe kurbutti's idea would come in handy there, i dunno. i really have too few experience with them to know if and what needs to get changed.

So then why are you even posting about this? I do use spy bullets, and the number one thing I'd like to see fixed is having them removed by mercs 5 seconds after you tag them.

If people really want bullet removal to stay, put in a short animation of some sort and limit the removal to 1 per every 2-3 minutes or so, and put it on a global timer so that dying doesn't affect it.

i don't like your global timers and amount crap you suggest for bullets and spytraps. it's something quite irrational and hard to grasp for new players (unless you put in like 5 clocks on the hud XD) and a pretty poor way to "fix" something else: on a good map it should come with a significant risk of loosing an objective to meet up as a merc. besides, why not boost bullets simply be giving them a larger timer (especially when they are on the ground)?

Quote from: Rambo on September 13, 2008, 03:32:27 PM
i don't like your global timers and amount crap you suggest for bullets and spytraps. it's something quite irrational and hard to grasp for new players (unless you put in like 5 clocks on the hud XD) and a pretty poor way to "fix" something else: on a good map it should come with a significant risk of loosing an objective to meet up as a merc. besides, why not boost bullets simply be giving them a larger timer (especially when they are on the ground)?

Huh? Hard to grasp?

Tooltip: You may remove spy bullets on your partner, but this may only be done once every two minutes. Then the [insert fancy name for removal device] must recharge.

Tooltip: Tripping multiple spy traps will cause the timers to stack. Your partner can only remove one spy trap at a time every two minutes. Then the [insert fancy name for removal device] must recharge.

What kind of retard can't understand that? I just managed to explain this 'uber complex' idea in two lines of text.

Secondly, infinite timers doesn't fix the main problem with bullets (or traps). The main problem is that they are far too easily and often removed.

I think my "2nd spy trap kills" idea is better. It might be a bit overpowered, but then again, you wont have the stacking-problem. There will have to be a forced radius where a 2nd spytrap cant be planted (else it'd be overpowered to have two very very close together).

Quote from: frvge on September 14, 2008, 01:03:32 AM
I think my "2nd spy trap kills" idea is better. It might be a bit overpowered, but then again, you wont have the stacking-problem. There will have to be a forced radius where a 2nd spytrap cant be planted (else it'd be overpowered to have two very very close together).

That idea is terrible.

Why? Spies will need to be on the look-out for Trackers (that's good). Makes them more aware. They can trip one and they'll show up on the HUD.

Or maybe: if you trip the 2nd one, your health decreases at rate x, then trip a third one and it decreases faster. So 1 is no real problem, 2 acts like a dioxin mine, but with tagging capability? It's punishment, I know, but IMO it's not overpowered at all.

SPY...TRAPS...SHOULD...NOT...DAMAGE...YOU!

How about decreasing max battery when 2+ spytraps are tripped?
Say, instead of 10 shocker shots, you have a max of 6 (until the spytrap wears off).

Let me tell you guys a story.

Once upon a time, there was a game called Tribes 2, where the developers did everything that the vocal community wanted.
The game turned out to be total shit, until they later realized their fault and reversed the changes.


Spy traps should serve a single function, and that is to alert the mercenaries to your position.
The removal of spy traps could possibly be nerfed, but that is for much later when we actually have test trials of the game.

Quote from: MR.Mic on September 14, 2008, 01:23:47 AM

Quote from: frvge on September 14, 2008, 01:03:32 AM
I think my "2nd spy trap kills" idea is better. It might be a bit overpowered, but then again, you wont have the stacking-problem. There will have to be a forced radius where a 2nd spytrap cant be planted (else it'd be overpowered to have two very very close together).

That idea is terrible.

Concur

QuoteHuh? Hard to grasp?

you'd need a new hud element and a tooltip for something you need in 1 game out of 5 only because balance is screwed somewhere else.

QuoteSecondly, infinite timers doesn't fix the main problem with bullets (or traps). The main problem is that they are far too easily and often removed.

the main problem is that no good players runs into them unvoluntarily in the first place. it's more like: *switching on tv for 1 seconds" - oh there are some spytraps - oh my mate is close - why waste chaff i'm gonna harvest them. if you can see them that easily they only work in a couple of doorways/vent openings/windows in which you can't jump over them (unless you wanna waste two). and in those situations it's rather a gadget-counter chaff-vs-traps thingy.

QuoteSPY...TRAPS...SHOULD...NOT...DAMAGE...YOU!

affirmative.

QuoteThe removal of spy traps could possibly be nerfed, but that is for much later when we actually have test trials of the game.

i'm happy to see that at least one of the devs has a conservative standpoint. a lot of changes could improve gameplay, but most stuff suggested on this forum would do serious damage. it's way better to do experiments one by one after getting a beta running.

Quoteyou'd need a new hud element and a tooltip for something you need in 1 game out of 5 only because balance is screwed somewhere else.

Don't fucking dodge the issue. You said that it'd be hard to understand, not that it'd be hard to implement. Besides, what you list is 5 minutes worth of work -- adding two lines of text to the equipment description and, if you really think it's necessary, drawing some kind of 2-D indicator for when you can perform a trap removal.

Quotethe main problem is that no good players runs into them unvoluntarily in the first place. it's more like: *switching on tv for 1 seconds" - oh there are some spytraps - oh my mate is close - why waste chaff i'm gonna harvest them. if you can see them that easily they only work in a couple of doorways/vent openings/windows in which you can't jump over them (unless you wanna waste two). and in those situations it's rather a gadget-counter chaff-vs-traps thingy.

You're way off the mark. I've caught plenty of good players with spy traps. Additionally, I have no problems with a spy being able to see a trap if he's being careful or whatever. The problem is that a player can see the trap, acknowledge it, and proceed to ignore it due to the instant removal.

Seriously, use this stuff a bit before you decide to engage on lengthy subjects about where something's weakness is.

there's a difference between "weakness" and gameplay imbalance. imo spy traps should rather track spies than block pathways. if i want to block a doorway, i can put a mine there.

Quote from: Rambo on September 14, 2008, 03:07:19 PM
there's a difference between "weakness" and gameplay imbalance. imo spy traps should rather track spies than block pathways. if i want to block a doorway, i can put a mine there.

mmmm...you track spies with it, but most "good players" know that if you have a trap in a doorway, it will too block the doorway. Especially if chaff doesn't work through walls.

The only changes that COULD but don't necessarily HAVE to be made to equipment are changes that don't dramatically change the game play. I want to consider PS a splintercell. Stupid ideas to somehow change the spy trap or whatever... DISAPPEAR!