For those who don't know, my card sucks. It only goes up to pixel shader 1.3. So, this makes it kind of hard for me to program advanced graphical stuff. However, see all those other programmers posting on the forum with their informative and technical comments? THEY CAN! So, lets come up with things that require cool effects for them to program. No, we are not torturing all those programmers that aren't me, they're programmers, what may be frustating for you is extremely fun for them!
I'm asking for cool stuff that create cool effects. Don't fill my thread with something completely obvious or has already been done in every game (nothing that requires smoke particles, please). I'm talking heat haze, bloodtrails on the wall/floor for hit spies for mercs to follow (like the footprints from CT) or monitors that show realtime information (imagine a security booth with a lots of screens that show anything from realtime camera footage to the location of every mine on the map). I guess I'll allow anything cool but it should have a really awesome graphical component. That's what this thread is for because current-gen (Formerly known as next-gen) is more than just pushing polys or shader instructions, it's also about pushing ideas.
Yeah dude I don't see that being a problem, and is quite logical IMHO. Your card sucks, you focus on gameplay coding and such, they focus on the shaders/effects.
i want to make some electrical arteries on the spy suit that work the with camo suit. What would be really cool is that they give a glow effect like a heart pumping when it initiates the camo suit.
Also, I think it would be a cool effect to integrate a kind of sound meter effect where these arteries pulse whenever a spy makes enough noise to ping a mercs SD.
Also....a new way to show the Merc visions is needed. We can stick with blue/red colors....but the noise filter and mt lock on can be done in a new way. Also, the transition between visions would benefit....
If we can get the feeling that MT is actually scanning like radar/sonar with lines/noise moving through the vision (to cut down on vision whores). Also, emf in DA :SP is much more authentic looking.
Also....what about a sound vision mode?
I think it would be nice to have the glow effect initiate in a non-uniform fashion across the body.
Something like having the invisible effect expand outward from the lines on the suit by using an animated mask or something like that.
i like the idea being able to see the vids from security cameras....or spies being able to wiretap them for that matter
I knew there was some good repressed ideas out there. It just needed a thread. I've discovered how limiting my bad graphic card has been to my ability to think of cool graphic things so I'll just be one of those losers that criticize (the nice kind too) without contributing ideas.
I think the idea of hackable security cameras are pretty lame compared to the following use of realtime monitors: One of those monitors shows the position of both mercs on the map by just looking at it, no hacking. If you do hack it, it should upload the realtime position of your spy partner and as long as you stay at the console, you'll be able see your partner in relation to the mercs. Combine that to teamwork and microphones and you have the perfect sci-fi movie cliche of having a guy watch dots on a screen while directing his partner/team.
Quote from: goodkebab on December 13, 2006, 06:11:30 PM
i want to make some electrical arteries on the spy suit that work the with camo suit. What would be really cool is that they give a glow effect like a heart pumping when it initiates the camo suit.
TRON! Now, as a frequent user of the camo suit, I know that 90% of the time, I activate it when I see a merc (as oppose to predicting him entering the room) so wouldn't making my camo glow right before it cloaks make it more useless? I think maybe we could have the glow effect when the camo suit is taken but not on, and have MrMic's idea of cloaking the suit. So it would mean the suit has a disadvantage of being more seeable than a normal black suit when it's off but it's obviously less seeable when it's turned on.
Edit: Just noticed that having a constant glow effect was probably what you were talking about. Please don't hurt me.
well....spy goggles have a glow not visible by mercs...and DA spies have a subtle glow and shininess to them when they are in dark vents
the veins serve the purpose of making the spy visible to the player that is all....visually its just a cool factor
There is no need to nerf the use of the camo suit Overstatement. I mean unless we drastically increased it's time and made the thing harder to see it really would be nerfing an already arguably difficult to use gadget.
I agree with Psyichic. I don't know about the pc version but i know that on the xbox version, camo was easy to see unless you were far away or in the dark (or when a person had an xbox 360 they saw a green outline around people in camo which is, I know trust me, very gay), so nerfing it would just make it utterly useless.
I don't have as much trouble using the camosuit as you guys apparently do. Aside from the loud camo activating sound, camo works nicely in the right spot. I don't see how it's really a nerf. When you bring camo, you would not rely on the blackness of your suit to hide yourself. When you have a merc in sight, camo is always active and the merc usually passes before the energy runs out. If your energy does run out, the merc probably heard it deactivate and he'll find you no matter what colour your normal suit is. Typcially, you would not move while in camo either. Can we call it a rebalancing rather than a nerf if we fix the loud camo problem?
Also, lets try to come up with some new ideas, yes?
EAX is not a problem that im used to so even though i play with my volume pretty high, I usually cant hear camo when it de/activates, so fixing that never occurred to me.
Overstatement what I am saying is that making the camo suit have a downside other then taking up a slot such as the glowing effect of the spy would make it something people would not want to bring merely because they are now going to be forced to use a camo suit every time a merc wanders past them.
Your idea will mean a spy is going to get screwed stealth-wise right off the bat. If he takes camo suit he is either easily visible when he isn't using it or he is glowing in EMF when he is using it and it is draining his battery which might be better spent on shocking a merc.
I understand how the camo suit works but ive never felt it was in need of such a change as making the spy glow when he isn't using it. That is essentially nerfing the camo suit which does not need any nerfing. People don't always use the camo suit when they have it. If you are hiding in a dark shadow there is no purpose to use a camo suit if the merc just walks by it is useful when you either have a good ambush going or are hidden in partial shadows or you need to sneak by a merc at medium to long range.
The camosuit works fine the way it is. The easily heard activation is an effect of EAX which everyone knows is grossly overpowered. There is simply no need to nerf the camosuit in such a way. Fixing EAX would not overpower it to any point where it would need nerfing as you are suggesting.
You haven't given me one good reason why it needs this nerf.
It was just an idea I threw out. I don't feel strongly about putting it in either, just trying to work in goodkebeb's idea. I still don't think it's as strong a disadvantage as you do but I don't want to argue. The more time you think about arguements, the less time you'll have to think about concepts that look cool.
I understand creating a glowing effect that only spies can see. Just like goodkebab said it could be a visual effect that only illuminates to the spy. The merc doesn't have to see it.
If you're making a port first, sticking with the normal MT but cutting down the detection radius to FOV, increasing the threshold so that a spy creeping on a diagonal doesn't set it off (not really a nerf, just an annoying "feature" ubi overlooked), and forcing normal post-render quality for that vision only would suffice. The buff it could use is make the box ping quicker like it did in PT (instant there is movement the box pings. In CT, there is a 1/2 - 1 sec delay). Oh, and put the PT ambient sound back in there for the vision.
Still, it took a long time to figure it out, but I really don't think MT is all that bad anymore. There are only a select few maps where an MT whore is very annyoing, but that's the map layout, not the vision. As long as there are objects to hide behind it's fine. The NV part isn't really the worst part of it since the merc has a laser, a flashlight, and EMF to see in the dark anyway. The things I mentioned above are things that most people want, but overall it's very possible to get around the MT whore in most cases. I have more trouble getting past people who can EMF ghost through crazy surfaces like Club ceiling.
If you're going for changes, since you mentioned a "sound vision" mode, how about making it so that your sound reticle only works in normal vision? Or how about making MT so it's still 360 radius like it is now, but you don't get any sound reticle pings or indications? Just throwing out ideas here.
I liked one idea posted some time ago on the ubi forums about the MT. If the thing detects air turbulence (or something similar) the whole FOV would be screwed if you'd run around as a merc. You could still walk around with it and be able to see movement (not those grey boxes but something like an orange or yellow tint on things that set it up (IE: a spy covered with orange tint). I'm not sure about the 360 alarm though, taking that away too would maybe nerf MT too much.
Quote from: Overstatement on December 13, 2006, 12:03:05 PM
heat haze, bloodtrails on the wall/floor for hit spies for mercs to follow (like the footprints from CT) or monitors that show realtime information
i love those ideas, and we could use those awesome effects to get attention from the media, too.
Yeah, I want to bring this thread back. I know some of you have been blessed with creativity and not corrupted the knowledge of how rendering works so put anything in here and please, leave the programming for the programmers (don't not post something because YOU think it can't be done on modern hardware). In here, we won't be arguing if something is balanced or not, we're just brain storming up some effects (most of them won't even change gameplay) so just spit them out.
Two things I want to put out there is the change in MT where we use the distance of the surfaces from the player in the calcuations. So that surfaces that are close together appear blended (regardless of lighting) and surfaces that are far part are contrasted. Also, maybe it would be cool to have MT and EMF act like those radar screens with the line scanning around. So both visions will scan have a line that scans from left to right and moving or EM emitting things would be highlighted as the line moves over them. But the line should come frequent enough so that the visions would keep it's original effectiveness.
Addon: Ok, just realized it may not work too well with MT because MT is currently 360 degrees. So what if we had a merc gadget that's like a powerful presence detector. Deploy it on the ground and it will continuously use a laser (it makes a 2d plane or triangle somehow) to scan 360 degrees around it for spies. Spies could easily see this thing (it's bigish) and easily see the laser and therefore easily avoid the laser.
I like it for EMF.
I don't find MT that annoying as most of you seem to, but yea, I believe it'd be better if it was like the fixed one that was used on UMP Polar and maybe with less detecting radius.
Ok, how about a cool but totally unrealistic air displacement wave when the merc is charging. Like the round dome pattern infront of ships when they go fast. If that's too unrealistic, we could just show it to the merc that charging. If that's too unrealistic, we could only do it while the merc is in some kind of smoke.
Also, maybe add some smoke after a merc or spy is shocked? Comical...but needed?
Quote from: Overstatement on May 31, 2007, 01:13:48 AM
Also, maybe add some smoke after a merc or spy is shocked? Comical...but needed?
yai, burning clothes XD
vote for ageia physx (software only). but aerodynamics for smoke particles and a rushing merc can't be done in real time
Quote from: Myself
leave the programming for the programmers (don't not post something because YOU think it can't be done on modern hardware).
I'm a programmer, I know how many misconceptions people have. Currently, people have "ideas" when other games implement the original idea, it should really be the other way around... This is increasingly important in DirectX 10 games because there aren't any games to draw all your "ideas" from about the capabilities of stuff. So don't constrain yourself and come up with ideas that have never been seen before as oppose to ideas that have already been done. In conclusion, game studios don't just make repetitive gameplay, they make repetitive effects and I don't want that to hide away all your creativity. Just because they don't do it doesn't mean it's undoable.
Lets put the flipped version of what a merc sees in MT and EMF on the merc's visor. So if you look in a merc in the eyes while he's in MT, you'll see his red eyes and a yellow box (what colour was it?) around the position he sees you at (and possibility the spy that's sneaking up on you) and same with EMF. Do this on the client computer so it doesn't take up bandwidth. This would probably work better with a CT-like visor rather than the goggles that goodkebab is currently working on. Feels like a next-gen idea to me.
yeah let's do some cool reflections and semitransparent materials :D
It's the idea that counts...but it's not actually reflections (I like to keep the number of times I render a scene to a minimum)...how many games have you seen that you can see the HUD in another player's eyes despite the fact that every FPS and beyond has a HUD. It's a good idea, I think. And a good idea doesn't have to involve crazy math or an insane number of computations, it's what you do with it that counts.
Sorry, no new idea today.
the idea rulez, but wouldn't one need a very high resolution to actually see it ingame?
We'll see how it goes but if you can see the colour of a merc's eyes from distance, you should get a kick out of seeing your merc partner's eyes upclose.
Ok, instead of just a colour band around merc grenades, lets put a band of LED lights on it that rotate in lighting so it's easy to tell the difference between a grenade that will kill you and one that won't. And just put different colour bands on the spy nades that will tell you which kind it is from it's colour.
Edit: Did I mention it will be actual lights and probably have some kind of volume like the flashlight? It's not just going to be an animated texture map.
i'm really looking forward to kicking ubi's ass with some real next-gen stuff :D
This stuff is cool ideas and all, but I'd like my FPS to be above 10 when I'm actually playing.
you should really get a good computer. omg i get angry when people complain about this. ps will get to beta state in 2 years at the earliest, got me? by the time, games like crysis and ut3 will be quite prevalent and so will the hardware.
yeap^
Ever sniped a spy and you're absolutely positive that you got a headshot, only to find that the spy runs away with his head intact and you're left thinking "WTF?". Well, how about we have some kind of indicator for snipe mode so you can see where exactly the server thinks you hit him? I'm thinking that we should put a silhouette of the spy as you saw it (same angle and animation) at the time of the shot and put it somewhere on the screen. On top of that, put a dot or something on where you hit him. Maybe if you had a near miss, you could show that in the same way too.
that would be perfect^
Nah, that's a bit noobish...just fix the packet loss and hitboxes and it won't even be needed.
the idea just sounds cool. it might BE noobish but cmon its kinda cool
it's kinda lol
If mercs must have the rappel, i'd like to see it get stuck sometimes (say 5-10% of all), so the mercs get stuck in midair, and unless the other merc helps the stuck one, the only way is to cut the rope, but then it should disappear till the next respawn.
^Just my opinion
What's wrong with noobish things? If you don't want to use it, you don't need to look at it. It takes away nothing from the game while removing some of the "WTF? HAX!" from the real noobs. And isn't that what we really want?
For example, what if we put cool little waves on the walls or floors where your spy makes noise? So if you run, each foot that lands on the floor would spawn waves on the floor and putting your back against the wall while standing will make waves on the wall. See? It barely affects you but you'll be accused less of wallhacking from these bunny hopping UT3 noobs that will spawn the servers and leave at will.
Edit: My original idea was that the spy glows at the point where he makes a noise. Like a CSI x-ray type glow on a foot. I don't know how it turned into waves...
no glowing but the hs thing i agree with u totally overstatement
Quote from: Kok4f4n on June 04, 2007, 07:20:28 PM
If mercs must have the rappel, i'd like to see it get stuck sometimes (say 5-10% of all), so the mercs get stuck in midair, and unless the other merc helps the stuck one, the only way is to cut the rope, but then it should disappear till the next respawn.
Uh... no... that's a terrible idea.
You don't want some random percentage chance that you get completely screwed using your gadgets. We're trying to get rid of randomness like instafrags and such.
Quote from: InvisibleMan999 on June 04, 2007, 10:26:10 PM
Quote from: Kok4f4n on June 04, 2007, 07:20:28 PM
If mercs must have the rappel, i'd like to see it get stuck sometimes (say 5-10% of all), so the mercs get stuck in midair, and unless the other merc helps the stuck one, the only way is to cut the rope, but then it should disappear till the next respawn.
Uh... no... that's a terrible idea.
You don't want some random percentage chance that you get completely screwed using your gadgets. We're trying to get rid of randomness like instafrags and such.
Stop! Wrong thread you two.
Quote from: LiVe.To.Di3 on June 04, 2007, 10:13:30 PM
no glowing but the hs thing i agree with u totally overstatement
Waves/glowing is only visible by the spy because noobs forget about the tutorial quickly. They need constant reminder.
QuoteWhat's wrong with noobish things? If you don't want to use it, you don't need to look at it. It takes away nothing from the game while removing some of the "WTF? HAX!" from the real noobs. And isn't that what we really want?
For example, what if we put cool little waves on the walls or floors where your spy makes noise? So if you run, each foot that lands on the floor would spawn waves on the floor and putting your back against the wall while standing will make waves on the wall. See? It barely affects you but you'll be accused less of wallhacking from these bunny hopping UT3 noobs that will spawn the servers and leave at will.
Because fuck babying people. What other FPS game has an indicator where "the server thinks your bullet hits"? That idea is completely homosexual. You have a bullet hole in the wall, and the crosshair turns color if you hit him. If you missed then you missed, that's all you need to know.
As for your sound detector idea, a tutorial that explains what sets off the reticle is all that's needed. Currently there is already an audio indicator if the spy makes noise detectable by the reticle. There is no need to add more graphical clutter.
what we need for the n00bs are good tutorials. i don't think that as many n00bs as in ct will be around in ps, and you can choose to play with vets only (matches organized by xfire, real accounts). maybe it would be a good idea if making a new account needs 10 minutes of tutorial work in order to stop the smurfing.
We definitely need good tutorials. I wouldn't really mind some n00b special effects either. I mean, assuming it wouldn't kill the framerate, I wouldn't have any problem with the momentary clientside waves emanating from a spy making noise, or especially some kind of effect that shows you when you're on radar while carrying a disc. It's another reason I suggested an indicator to point out when you've been detected by an MT box.
It's sad because most newbies to multiplayer SC don't even know the sound detector exists.
It'd be nice to get a good community of players, and to do that we need to make it newbie accessible. However, instead of going DAs route of dumbing down the game, we should just make the game mechanics more apparent and well-explained. It doesn't fundamentally change game balance if newbies are aware when they're making sound, in fact they'll much more easily learn how to play the game. The vets probably won't care either way since they already know that stuff.
Also as far as visuals go, I'd also like the gas mask to only block vision when actually activated, as opposed to when merely selected. This would make it a lot more apparent when gas mask was activated and when it was inactive.
Also maybe we could make some kind of visual that happens when you headshot a merc, so it's more obvious you got a headshot and that his suit is out of commission, perhaps small sparks going around his body or something similar.
Quote from: InvisibleMan999 on June 05, 2007, 10:41:39 AM
Also as far as visuals go, I'd also like the gas mask to only block vision when actually activated, as opposed to when merely selected. This would make it a lot more apparent when gas mask was activated and when it was inactive.
Also maybe we could make some kind of visual that happens when you headshot a merc, so it's more obvious you got a headshot and that his suit is out of commission, perhaps small sparks going around his body or something similar.
I like those ideas.
Quote from: InvisibleMan999 on June 05, 2007, 10:41:39 AM
It'd be nice to get a good community of players, and to do that we need to make it newbie accessible. However, instead of going DAs route of dumbing down the game, we should just make the game mechanics more apparent and well-explained.
Yes! People like me who don't play 80% of their games with someone they know, would like a large and challenging community. There is a big difference between dumbing a game down and being helpful.
the current hud system is kinda self-explaining and mature. we should go for good tutorials and a skill indicator superior to the rank system.
Skill indication is just another form of Ranking. It can't be based on anything creditable.
A Stat tracking system like what was talked way back when would be something nice to have. I know that for Tribes, i was able to download a stat tracker that was a complete part of the game. So I don't see a reason why we couldn't do it.
Then by using somesort of code, we could get skill data or player type. You know, like in Perfect Dark you get trigger happy or most cowardly, but for spies or mercs. So like, smoke happy, or sneaky SOB or Throat Doctor, MT whore. things like that.
It's probably a lot of work, but personnally, it'd be a great to have. No one else would be able to see it but what's stopping us from having a forum with players of PS (VERSUS) posting their stats.
i was more thinking on a red light warning you that this guy hasn't played more than 100 hours or not more than 10 hours on the current map. and a blue light for people with more than 500 hours or more than 100 hours on the current map. this would make it much easier to fill a server with equally skilled people. this would work via the cd key and not via the user name of course.
hello? what cd-key??
we could give a master key (that requires registration) to every player, like they do with many betas
Even if we did have a server to store information, we can't access it because it's a mod and mods only talk to Epic master servers.
Quote from: Gawain on June 06, 2007, 11:29:31 PM
we could give a master key (that requires registration) to every player, like they do with many betas
I wouldn't you don't want to make the game a pain for people to get. You want it to be easy to just download it and run the mod. Otherwise, we will lose out on potential players.
ok, so one light for one nick. maybe this could stop the faking.
You guys act like noobs are little impressionable children who have to have their hands held through everything. Seriously, there comes a point when you either learn the game or you don't. There's no excuse for idiocy, and I don't want shit cluttering up my screen because little 11 year old johnny doesn't have the patience to learn the game. Throw a comprehensive (OPTIONAL) tutorial in there and call it a day. The only other good idea is an indication of getting a headshot on the merc, but I don't know if that would unbalance the game because you'd put a huge sign on the merc's head that says "AGGRO ME FOR THE NEXT 12 SECONDS LOL!!!1"
A visual indicator of the spy making noise is bad. If you're sneaky and careful, you will know whether or not you made noise. You might as well just put a voiceover that says "Good job you fucking moron, you made noise. The mercs will be here to frag your ass in approximately 5, 4, 3, 2, 1..." [/sarcasm]
Quote from: Spekkio on June 08, 2007, 12:36:36 AM
You guys act like noobs are little impressionable children who have to have their hands held through everything. Seriously, there comes a point when you either learn the game or you don't. There's no excuse for idiocy, and I don't want shit cluttering up my screen because little 11 year old johnny doesn't have the patience to learn the game. Throw a comprehensive (OPTIONAL) tutorial in there and call it a day. The only other good idea is an indication of getting a headshot on the merc, but I don't know if that would unbalance the game because you'd put a huge sign on the merc's head that says "AGGRO ME FOR THE NEXT 12 SECONDS LOL!!!1"
A visual indicator of the spy making noise is bad. If you're sneaky and careful, you will know whether or not you made noise. You might as well just put a voiceover that says "Good job you fucking moron, you made noise. The mercs will be here to frag your ass in approximately 5, 4, 3, 2, 1..." [/sarcasm]
It's this sort of pointless elitism that keeps the fanbase so small for CT.
You don't need all kinds of hidden features and stuff for newbies to discover. You want to make the game mechanics apparent. It's kind of nice to know what made sound, because by default it may not be obvious. When I first started playing, I thought that slow walk made less sound than fast crouch.
Unless you got a friend to test this stuff, there wasn't any way to tell. While I may understand the game now, the learning curve was very steep and most of the time, the only way to learn stuff like that was to get a friend and actually do it.
If we want a healthy community for this game, it's a good idea to make the game more newbie accessible.
Pointless elitism? Assuming that every player needs idiot boxes, sounds, and whatever have you to understand a game is pointless elitism. If you're too dumb to understand the mechanics of a game that has a comprehensive tutorial, then you should be playing Big Bird teaches the Alphabet instead of splinter cell.
All kinds of "bleep" sounds also crack tension. Just remember to mention it in the tutorial.
Quote from: Spekkio on June 08, 2007, 02:17:26 AM
Pointless elitism? Assuming that every player needs idiot boxes, sounds, and whatever have you to understand a game is pointless elitism. If you're too dumb to understand the mechanics of a game that has a comprehensive tutorial, then you should be playing Big Bird teaches the Alphabet instead of splinter cell.
Affirmative, but ppl should have some hints on what makes you trackable and stuff, cause the newbies wouldnt have a chanse...
Also, it should be optional - the vets could just turn it off to concentrate on gameplay, while newbs can watch the ghosts and stuff.
Quote from: Spekkio on June 08, 2007, 02:17:26 AM
Pointless elitism? Assuming that every player needs idiot boxes, sounds, and whatever have you to understand a game is pointless elitism. If you're too dumb to understand the mechanics of a game that has a comprehensive tutorial, then you should be playing Big Bird teaches the Alphabet instead of splinter cell.
Look, you know this game because you've been playing it for years.
But when you started playing, you didn't know what everything did or how the game worked. And you had questions like these...
Do you make noise when you fast crouch? Do you make noise when you slow walk? If so how much noise?
How fast can I move with a disc and not be on radar? If I roll off and drop do I make noise? If I walk off and drop, do I make noise? Does drawing my gun make noise? Is it possible to draw my gun without making noise? Does shooting a sticky create noise?
And lots of other questions.
Yeah, you can answer them now, but when you started playing, you couldn't.
And there was no good way to answer that stuff beyond actually testing it with a partner. And yes, that's what we had to do back then, because nothing was explained. Yeah I've been playing the PT demo, so I know how that was. And you can claim all you want that the game is easy to figure out and that any newbie should be able to instantly jump into it and understand it, but we both know that isn't true.
CT is full of hidden mechanics. And you can't figure out how they work without a merc. Unfortunately as a newbie, you probably don't have a partner either, so that makes that even harder, since few people are going to want to waste their time while you run around in circles around them asking ,"What's your reticule doing now?"
Even the best tutorial will still leave questions and a visual indicator is probably the best way of answering those questions, because it shows you as you play instead of cheapshotting newbies with a bunch of hidden mechanics.
It's easy to turn off these added indicators if you don't like them, but I think it'd be nice to have them there to decrease the learning curve of the game.
Yeah, I don't need em, you don't need em, but I'd like to be playing with a community of larger than like 50 people. Maybe you enjoy playing the same people every night, but I'd like to actually, you know, make this game popular.
it's kinda rofllol for the experienced players, but after the main work is done implementing stuff like this could help new players alot. but the main problem with new players is that they don't get the concept of playing spy and that they don't know the maps well enough. and as there are no replays like in rts games, it is quite frustrating to work out tactics.
I disagree with Spekkio here. I prefer more noob-friendly signs, but keeping the gameplay at the same level as CT's. So do not dumb down gameplay, but make things more clear.
Heck, put text like 'up, left' near the sound detector for the first
- minutes of play.
I think it'd start off with that and then after some time of playing a box should pop-up that says that the noob-friendly feature is now being turned off. Enable/disable via Game Options.
QuoteDo you make noise when you fast crouch? Do you make noise when you slow walk? If so how much noise?
How fast can I move with a disc and not be on radar? If I roll off and drop do I make noise? If I walk off and drop, do I make noise? Does drawing my gun make noise? Is it possible to draw my gun without making noise? Does shooting a sticky create noise?
And lots of other questions.
Yeah, you can answer them now, but when you started playing, you couldn't.
Yes, I did have these questions
because there was only a shitty tutorial that never answered them. And sometimes I still say "wow, that's new" because the game has shitty netcode. My point is that with a good tutorial, you won't and don't need to clutter up the screen in the actual game with this crap.
Quote from: Spekkio on June 08, 2007, 08:03:49 PM
My point is that with a good tutorial, you won't and don't need to clutter up the screen in the actual game with this crap.
right. but the tutorial would get quite long, and most newbs want to jump into online action quite fast once they decided to play mp. but i have no problem with a good, long tutorial and no ingame crap because cool new people would listen to the whole one.
Even if we have an awesome tutorial that explains the most important things and isn't too long to be the most boring thing ever, they can't expect to know the best tactics or secret routes before they play quite a bit of it. And that, in my opinion, is what makes CT better than something like CSS or BF2 where you just run around shooting like a maniac.
this game isnt like the others like bf2142 u watch vid and u know exactly what to do. u must really play before and then watch vid and use that
Quote from: LiVe.To.Di3 on June 09, 2007, 12:53:57 AM
this game isnt like the others like bf2142 u watch vid and u know exactly what to do. u must really play before and then watch vid and use that
Or you can simply choose to be a noob, whatever....
Real noobs won't watch the vids, cause they r too "pr0" to learn, so i think that we need say two servers where a noob can go and learn with vets that want to help the community ;)
Quote from: Kok4f4n on June 09, 2007, 01:26:06 AM
Quote from: LiVe.To.Di3 on June 09, 2007, 12:53:57 AM
this game isnt like the others like bf2142 u watch vid and u know exactly what to do. u must really play before and then watch vid and use that
Or you can simply choose to be a noob, whatever....
Real noobs won't watch the vids, cause they r too "pr0" to learn, so i think that we need say two servers where a noob can go and learn with vets that want to help the community ;)
lmao yea i hope
Yeah, I mean there's no problem reducing the size and complexity of the tutorial by putting in some special effects (so long as they're not too FPS damaging).
So the tutorial could just say "when you move too fast, you make noise, you can see this by the small distortion animation around your spy while making noise."
This means that people can now go experiment on their own to see what does and doesn't make noise, and that's cool. It saves tutorial time and ensures that people can check every maneuver easily on their own time, even learning while they play.
Having a "you are on radar" disc indicator would be nice too.
i have no problem with some indicators, but i'll turn them off anyway :P
All those indicators should be optional, so that you can turn them on/off from the options.
I think that txt msgs are ok, and should be able to be turned off, but graphic indicators (say the tubes on the spy suit) change colors when you make noise (or if you have a presence det. for spies, it can change colour when the merc is coming close), or something...
I don't get where all this discussion came from. Originally, I just thought that it would be a cool effect to have with the unintentional effect of helping out noobs. Now, seems like people want the ability to turn it off. Why? How can "clutter up" the screen when it doesn't block or interfere with any other element? Is it because you guys don't want or care about better graphics? Worried it will screw with gameplay? If this is the case, what the hell are we doing waiting for UT3 to come out when we don't have the requirement to do anything close to this (http://www.unrealtechnology.com/html/technology/ue30.shtml)? We could have already done a lot of work with an opened-sourced engine and could be already arguing about how to change OUR version of motion tracking instead of CT's motion tracking.
Anyways, new effect. You see a spy, you throw a nade and nade goes boom. It leaves the floors and walls chared and smoking. For the 10-30 seconds, the blackness expands up the walls (smouldering) like a cigarette burning closer to the end. Got the red border and everything. It expands at different rates depending on material (wood burns faster) eventally stopping, becoming a permanent burn on the map.
i love special effects and athmospheric lightning :D
but referring to the indicators: sc is a game where you actually have to think. a good tutorial and some ingame messages like "whatch out, you are making too much noise" for the first hours of gameplay would do the job.
Quote from: Gawain on June 09, 2007, 06:14:36 PM
i love special effects and athmospheric lightning :D
but referring to the indicators: sc is a game where you actually have to think. a good tutorial and some ingame messages like "whatch out, you are making too much noise" for the first hours of gameplay would do the job.
yea i guess but eventually i would get so mad at whoever was telling me watch out!!! i would just dislike the game lol.
The tutorial is long?
It takes fucking 5 minutes to explain what the sound detector does and how each vision mode works. Throw in a little "grab the merc" mini-game in the tutorial so you get rid of the "gmo how do i grab?!!!one" questions. The equipment you can figure out by fucking around with it. And that's really all there really is to it. The rest is just practice and getting better yourself.
Seriously, a good tutorial would take no longer than 5 minutes to complete on each side (from a player standpoint). For mercs you have a little explanation of the sound detector, vision modes, basic controls and equipment. Then have a couple of mini games of "find the spy" using the above.
For spies have a little obstacle course to go through ala SC1 where you have to not make any noise and not trip any passive defenses. If you do, you start over. Then an explanation of the 3 different kinds of objectives and how to accomplish them. Then at the end you have to grab a merc and snap his neck.
Ohhh, so hard and long.
QuoteI don't get where all this discussion came from. Originally, I just thought that it would be a cool effect to have with the unintentional effect of helping out noobs. Now, seems like people want the ability to turn it off. Why? How can "clutter up" the screen when it doesn't block or interfere with any other element? Is it because you guys don't want or care about better graphics? Worried it will screw with gameplay? If this is the case, what the hell are we doing waiting for UT3 to come out when we don't have the requirement to do anything close to this? We could have already done a lot of work with an opened-sourced engine and could be already arguing about how to change OUR version of motion tracking instead of CT's motion tracking.
Because I like my screen to be as empty as possible. If something is redundant or unnecessary, I don't want it to be there. This is especially because it could be blocking something more important, like a mine in the distance that I might see but no some fucking idiotic waves are appearing near my feet because I'm not crouching so I can't see it. Then I blow myself up and get pissed off because I know that I'm making noise I don't need some fucking indicator on screen to tell me so, and that stupid shit got me killed.
Also, someone mentioned voiceovers....no and NO. Not unless I can turn them off. I HATE voiceovers. I know I got a headshot because my enemy is dead, I don't need some corny assed repetative "HEADSHOT" thing everytime I do. Oh, and the whole "watch out the enemy is coming" takes AWAY the thinking part of the game. You just have the computer tell you what's happening, you no longer have to think about it.
The grenade idea is a good one, but I assume the graphics are going to get a facelift with the new engine. I'm talking about needless special effects, not cool special effects that would reflect what would happen if something actually blew up.
Quote from: Spekkio on June 09, 2007, 08:54:13 PM
The tutorial is long?
It takes fucking 5 minutes to explain what the sound detector does and how each vision mode works. Throw in a little "grab the merc" mini-game in the tutorial so you get rid of the "gmo how do i grab?!!!one" questions. The equipment you can figure out by fucking around with it. And that's really all there really is to it. The rest is just practice and getting better yourself.
Seriously, a good tutorial would take no longer than 5 minutes to complete on each side (from a player standpoint). For mercs you have a little explanation of the sound detector, vision modes, basic controls and equipment. Then have a couple of mini games of "find the spy" using the above.
For spies have a little obstacle course to go through ala SC1 where you have to not make any noise and not trip any passive defenses. If you do, you start over. Then an explanation of the 3 different kinds of objectives and how to accomplish them. Then at the end you have to grab a merc and snap his neck.
Ohhh, so hard and long.
QuoteI don't get where all this discussion came from. Originally, I just thought that it would be a cool effect to have with the unintentional effect of helping out noobs. Now, seems like people want the ability to turn it off. Why? How can "clutter up" the screen when it doesn't block or interfere with any other element? Is it because you guys don't want or care about better graphics? Worried it will screw with gameplay? If this is the case, what the hell are we doing waiting for UT3 to come out when we don't have the requirement to do anything close to this? We could have already done a lot of work with an opened-sourced engine and could be already arguing about how to change OUR version of motion tracking instead of CT's motion tracking.
Because I like my screen to be as empty as possible. If something is redundant or unnecessary, I don't want it to be there. This is especially because it could be blocking something more important, like a mine in the distance that I might see but no some fucking idiotic waves are appearing near my feet because I'm not crouching so I can't see it. Then I blow myself up and get pissed off because I know that I'm making noise I don't need some fucking indicator on screen to tell me so, and that stupid shit got me killed.
Also, someone mentioned voiceovers....no and NO. Not unless I can turn them off. I HATE voiceovers. I know I got a headshot because my enemy is dead, I don't need some corny assed repetative "HEADSHOT" thing everytime I do. Oh, and the whole "watch out the enemy is coming" takes AWAY the thinking part of the game. You just have the computer tell you what's happening, you no longer have to think about it.
The grenade idea is a good one, but I assume the graphics are going to get a facelift with the new engine. I'm talking about needless special effects, not cool special effects that would reflect what would happen if something actually blew up.
hell ya spekk i agree totally but when u get a headshot it would be cool if it said heashot:D. Give it a try its not like the enemy is coming bs. As long as sniping isnt like in da... which is the most shitty shit lol i have ever seen in my life.. only way to get a hs in da is if a noob is standing somewhere hacking and u get out your gun and snipe at his head.
I would not mind something indicating if i made noise or something else like that. As long as the indicator is somewhere where it does not block anything in the game. Maybe at the top corner or something like that. Or on the spies back the small color changes if you made noise etc.
I think there's a lot of over thinking going on here. As I recall, there's a slight beep or tick noise that occurs when the spy makes noise. UBI thought of that, just not many know. I'm pretty sure the disk glows when you move too fast, which indicates you're on radar.
Noobs, are going to be noobs. We could make the most spectacular tutorial, yet we can't take into account stupidity. That's wasting our time. Give them the basic information, let them know what things do what. That's it. They don't need anything else. If they can't start thinking for themselves, they aren't going to do well at all in the game. There's nothing we can do, when the noob thinks the best strategy is to sit in the vent. We gonna have a voice over "Hey spy, don't sit in the vent. Head to an objective." Oh, wait. Ubi does that with little pop ups every now and again reminding us of our objectives.
We can't cater to stupidity. Teach them the basics, and hope for the best.
An idea would be to put little hints during the loading screens. Like, "Taking out your weapon pings the Mercs sound detector. Hold E to take it out without ping. watch out for the audible noise, it can't be masked." or "Smoke screened? use a different vision to see through the smoke. Throw on the gas mask to be safe"
Random little blurbs that appear during the loading screen would go a long long way, and reduce any of this pointless clutter.
Quote from: Daybreak on June 10, 2007, 01:28:51 AM
I think there's a lot of over thinking going on here. As I recall, there's a slight beep or tick noise that occurs when the spy makes noise. UBI thought of that, just not many know. I'm pretty sure the disk glows when you move too fast, which indicates you're on radar.
Noobs, are going to be noobs. We could make the most spectacular tutorial, yet we can't take into account stupidity. That's wasting our time. Give them the basic information, let them know what things do what. That's it. They don't need anything else. If they can't start thinking for themselves, they aren't going to do well at all in the game. There's nothing we can do, when the noob thinks the best strategy is to sit in the vent. We gonna have a voice over "Hey spy, don't sit in the vent. Head to an objective." Oh, wait. Ubi does that with little pop ups every now and again reminding us of our objectives.
We can't cater to stupidity. Teach them the basics, and hope for the best.
An idea would be to put little hints during the loading screens. Like, "Taking out your weapon pings the Mercs sound detector. Hold E to take it out without ping. watch out for the audible noise, it can't be masked." or "Smoke screened? use a different vision to see through the smoke. Throw on the gas mask to be safe"
Random little blurbs that appear during the loading screen would go a long long way, and reduce any of this pointless clutter.
now thats something i can agree with.
me2
I agree with that, but we still would need some vets to teach noobs - when you are taught by somebody you learn easier, and a vet can explain better the game mechanics
this is a very annoying and ungraceful job, but if every vet tries to teach half an hour per week, a lot is done.
Quote from: Gawain on June 10, 2007, 11:47:16 AM
this is a very annoying and ungraceful job, but if every vet tries to teach half an hour per week, a lot is done.
Thats what i mean - you can spend half an hour talking to a n00b, don't you?
i'm sure it's great training for rl ^^
Quote from: Daybreak on June 10, 2007, 01:28:51 AM
Noobs, are going to be noobs. We could make the most spectacular tutorial, yet we can't take into account stupidity. That's wasting our time. Give them the basic information, let them know what things do what. That's it. They don't need anything else. If they can't start thinking for themselves, they aren't going to do well at all in the game. There's nothing we can do, when the noob thinks the best strategy is to sit in the vent. We gonna have a voice over "Hey spy, don't sit in the vent. Head to an objective." Oh, wait. Ubi does that with little pop ups every now and again reminding us of our objectives.
We can't cater to stupidity. Teach them the basics, and hope for the best.
Well, tactics are something we can't adequately teach them. Let them discover those for themselves. However, there shouldn't be any hidden mechanics. Every game mechanic should be relatively obvious.
Newbies need to understand what's making sound and what isn't. If we accomplish that with a SP style sound meter, or with some graphical effect, like sound waves, either way, it's fine. As long as they understand how the basic game works, so they have the knowledge to think up strategies.
Yeah, newbies are always going to be hiding in vents, or trying dumb FPS style rushes early on. But at the very least they realize that by running around they're letting the merc know what their position is. We can't make newbies into pros, but at the very least, we can show them what everything does. It's pretty sad when you're explaining how to do a coop move in game to your partner.
Quote
The tutorial is long?
It takes fucking 5 minutes to explain what the sound detector does and how each vision mode works. Throw in a little "grab the merc" mini-game in the tutorial so you get rid of the "gmo how do i grab?!!!one" questions. The equipment you can figure out by fucking around with it. And that's really all there really is to it. The rest is just practice and getting better yourself.
Yeah, it is long. You've got to cover all the following:
-Spy movement (Climbing things, leaping out windows, rolling)
-Stealthy movement
-Completing objectives
-static defenses (cameras, motion sensors and lasers)
-Disarming/detecting mines.
-Performing Coop Moves.
-Grabbing the merc and aggro tactics
-Using spy grenades and the gun launcher
-Using spy bullets
-Using stick cams
-Using camo
-Utilizing heartbeat
That's just the spy side of it, and I probably left some stuff out.
WAAY longer than 5 minutes.
Quote from: Spekkio on June 09, 2007, 08:54:13 PM
Because I like my screen to be as empty as possible. If something is redundant or unnecessary, I don't want it to be there. This is especially because it could be blocking something more important, like a mine in the distance that I might see but no some fucking idiotic waves are appearing near my feet because I'm not crouching so I can't see it. Then I blow myself up and get pissed off because I know that I'm making noise I don't need some fucking indicator on screen to tell me so, and that stupid shit got me killed.
How would a wave from your feet block a mine? And even if they do, surely changing the "material" (see: CSI XRay effect from my post) of the foot when it makes noise won't block anything that wouldn't have been blocked by the foot itself. How do you define "clutter" and why are some effects ok but others aren't?
Quote from: Daybreak on June 10, 2007, 01:28:51 AM
I think there's a lot of over thinking going on here. As I recall, there's a slight beep or tick noise that occurs when the spy makes noise. UBI thought of that, just not many know. I'm pretty sure the disk glows when you move too fast, which indicates you're on radar.
Noobs, are going to be noobs. We could make the most spectacular tutorial, yet we can't take into account stupidity. That's wasting our time. Give them the basic information, let them know what things do what. That's it. They don't need anything else. If they can't start thinking for themselves, they aren't going to do well at all in the game. There's nothing we can do, when the noob thinks the best strategy is to sit in the vent. We gonna have a voice over "Hey spy, don't sit in the vent. Head to an objective." Oh, wait. Ubi does that with little pop ups every now and again reminding us of our objectives.
We can't cater to stupidity. Teach them the basics, and hope for the best.
Yes, it's very agreeable but not really what I'm talking about. Waves at your feet is not to get spies out of a vent. I'm trying to deal with ignorance, not stupidity and I'm sure not trying to tell them how to play.
plz no ridiculous unrealistic effects for indicators. raising dust etc is ok, but not this sound wave shit...
How could it block a mine? Because sometimes you're running around on boxes/ledges/rails etc that are above the ground, that's how. Better yet, that shit might block my view of a merc who is trying to shoot at me if he's far away enough.
Daybreak wins the thread with the most reasonable post. He's also right in that we have an audio indication if you ping the reticle, and you don't need anything else besides that.
Invisible, a tutorial doesn't need to explain every little detail and teach you to become a pro. It simply needs to explain some of the finer points of the game and allow you to get acclimated with the controls/equipment. We already have equipment descriptions (and if they need to be more detailed, so be it, but that's part of the overall game GUI not the tutorial), so that covers that. Everything else is up to the user to either practice or get owned.
Whoever put the idea of teaching people is dumb. If someone ASKS me to show them something, I will. However, anytime I've tried to take the initiative to tell people something, 90%+ of the time they either don't listen or get pissed off. It's not anyone's responsibility to teach someone how to play a video game. You either take the time to learn it yourself, or you don't.
Anyway, something that I do think should be added is a graphical indication of the merc's post-shock/ko immunity to being shocked.
Quote from: Spekkio on June 10, 2007, 09:53:52 PM
Invisible, a tutorial doesn't need to explain every little detail
Yeah it does. It has to cover every game mechanic. There can't be little hidden commands or features that you don't know about.
It doesn't have to cover tactics at all. It shouldn't cover stuff like: "it's better to coop to tech than rush greek or pirates on aquarius".
It does have to teach spies how to use every gadget at their disposal, as well as know what makes sound and what doesn't. Unless of course, you add indicators like a sound meter or the wave effect or something, though I can see where you're coming from that the waves could cause some problems visually, so maybe we should just go with a sound meter somewhere? It'd be easy to turn off from the hud, and it's pretty self explanatory. As cool a visual effect as the waves might be, they may be a bit too intrusive.
But really, anything to avoid hidden mechanics is a good idea. The problem with hidden mechanics is that you can play the game for months or even years without ever discovering them.
btw: How does a spy know if he pinged the reticle of the Merc? I know mercs can use laser and still hear the ping of the sound reticle.(quick switch and you know where the sound comes from)
Quote from: Spekkio on June 10, 2007, 09:53:52 PM
a graphical indication of the merc's post-shock/ko immunity to being shocked.
wanted!
Quote from: Gawain on June 11, 2007, 02:38:23 PM
Quote from: Spekkio on June 10, 2007, 09:53:52 PM
a graphical indication of the merc's post-shock/ko immunity to being shocked.
wanted!
I wan it to be sparks off the helmet (damaging vision??) or the flashlight should go crazy :D
Quote from: goodkebab on June 11, 2007, 10:20:14 AM
btw: How does a spy know if he pinged the reticle of the Merc? I know mercs can use laser and still hear the ping of the sound reticle.(quick switch and you know where the sound comes from)
If you're talking about CT, spies hear the exact same sound. It's a soft but very distinct "beep" that you hear. I'm of the opinion the mercs shouldn't hear this when the laser is activated, but they do anyway.
QuoteBut really, anything to avoid hidden mechanics is a good idea. The problem with hidden mechanics is that you can play the game for months or even years without ever discovering them.
Most of the hidden mechanics come from the shitty netcode.
hmmmm....i knew i heard the ping...but was never confident that it actually was an indication that the mercs heard you.
Fun fact: you only hear it if the merc is within the radar range, so it acts as a ghetto HB sensor.
idk if am dumb or something but idk what you people are talking about. a ping? i also heard something about lagg and ping noise idk..
Quote from: Spekkio on June 12, 2007, 09:39:54 PM
Fun fact: you only hear it if the merc is within the radar range, so it acts as a ghetto HB sensor.
lol nice ^^
tbh i've never noticed it since i can remember. i guess i'm not alerted enough to such noises...
Vets to teach noobs how to play? Are you kidding me? You guys are way too concerned with the noobs and catering to new players.
No other mulitplayer has such indepth guides or tutorials. Part of playing video games is learning how to use the weapons and gadgets that come with it. Explaining every part of a weapon or gadget and what they are good for isn't our job. A player becomes great when they use the weapon or gadget or whatever it is and masters it and knows the finite details is what makes them great players.
Having vets teach noobs isn't only a bad idea because it wastes our time. The vets teach the new players, who are supposed to bring new tactics and strategies to the game, their old proven strategies. Technically, it defeats the purpose of a growing gaming community.
We want a community to grow and be larger than PT and CT. Babying them all the way is not the way to do it. As most have agreed the best way is to give them the info to survive. Then, if they want to live and battle, they will seek out the ways to do so.
When the student is ready, a master will appear.
Quote from: Daybreak on June 12, 2007, 11:49:52 PM
When the student is ready, a master will appear.
I hate it when that happens.
Quote from: Spekkio on June 12, 2007, 09:39:54 PM
Fun fact: you only hear it if the merc is within the radar range, so it acts as a ghetto HB sensor.
Yeah, I totally didn't even know that... I wonder, does that work with default sound or just EAX? cause I've never heard it at all. It sounds probably like another EAX exploit if you ask me, where you're hearing the merc's ping.
But if this is intentional, this is exactly the sort of hidden mechanics we want to avoid with our project. If such a beep exists, the tutorial needs to tell you about it.
Quote from: InvisibleMan999 on June 13, 2007, 05:19:56 AM
Quote from: Spekkio on June 12, 2007, 09:39:54 PM
Fun fact: you only hear it if the merc is within the radar range, so it acts as a ghetto HB sensor.
Yeah, I totally didn't even know that... I wonder, does that work with default sound or just EAX? cause I've never heard it at all. It sounds probably like another EAX exploit if you ask me, where you're hearing the merc's ping.
But if this is intentional, this is exactly the sort of hidden mechanics we want to avoid with our project. If such a beep exists, the tutorial needs to tell you about it.
lol i hear it without EAX, so its not an exploit
Quote from: Daybreak on June 12, 2007, 11:49:52 PM
You guys are way too concerned with the noobs and catering to new players.
No other mulitplayer has such indepth guides or tutorials.
...
When the student is ready, a master will appear.
most vets that stopped playing scct because of all the bugs etc will come back, so the community will be big enough to have tons of fun. i also think teaching n00bs beyond the basics is pretty useless. if someone already has understood the concept of competitive online gaming, and the will to improve himself instead of calling the vets lamers etc, he will make quite quick progress and hopefully develop his very own style.
however, the main problem in the community is the separation / bad relationship between vets and n00bs. i don't want to see the n00bs on sc lamers or here, but we should learn to respect each other. when ps is ready, a page like ps-singles.net or ps-videos.org would help to improve one's teamplay and show the n00bs that one can have even much greater fun at a higher level of skill (i'm tired of hearing "we don't play to win, we just play to have some fun", and i'm also tired of the dm community being part of scct)
to make my view clear: the tutorial has to cover every gameplay mechanic and maybe a short video for getting an idea of teamplay / getting objectives as the primary goal, but that's it.
Quote from: Gawain on June 13, 2007, 02:52:37 PM
Quote from: Daybreak on June 12, 2007, 11:49:52 PM
You guys are way too concerned with the noobs and catering to new players.
No other mulitplayer has such indepth guides or tutorials.
...
When the student is ready, a master will appear.
most vets that stopped playing scct because of all the bugs etc will come back, so the community will be big enough to have tons of fun. i also think teaching n00bs beyond the basics is pretty useless. if someone already has understood the concept of competitive online gaming, and the will to improve himself instead of calling the vets lamers etc, he will make quite quick progress and hopefully develop his very own style.
however, the main problem in the community is the separation / bad relationship between vets and n00bs. i don't want to see the n00bs on sc lamers or here, but we should learn to respect each other. when ps is ready, a page like ps-singles.net or ps-videos.org would help to improve one's teamplay and show the n00bs that one can have even much greater fun at a higher level of skill (i'm tired of hearing "we don't play to win, we just play to have some fun", and i'm also tired of the dm community being part of scct)
to make my view clear: the tutorial has to cover every gameplay mechanic and maybe a short video for getting an idea of teamplay / getting objectives as the primary goal, but that's it.
You're a genious, the vets should play with n00bs though, cuz otherways noobz won't have a chanse to improve
^Just my opinion, don't mind :D
Quote from: InvisibleMan999 on June 13, 2007, 05:19:56 AM
Quote from: Spekkio on June 12, 2007, 09:39:54 PM
Fun fact: you only hear it if the merc is within the radar range, so it acts as a ghetto HB sensor.
Yeah, I totally didn't even know that... I wonder, does that work with default sound or just EAX? cause I've never heard it at all. It sounds probably like another EAX exploit if you ask me, where you're hearing the merc's ping.
But if this is intentional, this is exactly the sort of hidden mechanics we want to avoid with our project. If such a beep exists, the tutorial needs to tell you about it.
In the PC version, it works with or without EAX.
I agree that nothing should be "hidden," but a tutorial that explains everything will still not be that long. As Gawain said, the tutorial merely needs to cover the basics, with emphasis on features that are separate from other FPS games.
QuoteYou're a genious, the vets should play with n00bs though, cuz otherways noobz won't have a chanse to improve
^Just my opinion, don't mind Cheesy
The only time I kick noobs is if my server requests good players. However, 90% of the time when a player is getting slaughtered they don't even stay for their spy round.
so you are always the host? ;P
sad but true: if you don't organize a matchup via xfire, hosting or letting your mate host is the best way not to get kicked/flamed all the time and play other maps than aqua/club...
btw in the last time, i joined some "pros only" labeled games, but i pwned them easily and i really don't consider me as a pro. i'd really like an option to ban some n00b permanently who can't read the servername (and not only 1 fake acc of him).
I fully intend to have the more subtle features explained during loading screens.
Quote from: goodkebab on June 14, 2007, 03:52:57 PM
I fully intend to have the more subtle features explained during loading screens.
sounds good to me.
Quote from: Gawain on June 14, 2007, 03:01:23 PM
so you are always the host? ;P
sad but true: if you don't organize a matchup via xfire, hosting or letting your mate host is the best way not to get kicked/flamed all the time and play other maps than aqua/club...
btw in the last time, i joined some "pros only" labeled games, but i pwned them easily and i really don't consider me as a pro. i'd really like an option to ban some n00b permanently who can't read the servername (and not only 1 fake acc of him).
No, I'm not always the host, but very often I am. It's because the typical routine is:
1. Login with partner. Notice that there are 18 people online
2. Filter out DM servers. Now there are two servers open, one that says "NOOBS ONLY RIFLE" and one that has 400 ping
3. Host my own server since lochang is west coast and euros would lag even more, 20 minute wait ensues before I get game.
On days where I do server hop, it's not uncommon to have 3-4 servers just close down after a beating before we can either find a consistent game or we just get fed up and I host.
^^thats usually the case with most skilled players and even more so with teams.
Quote from: Spekkio on June 14, 2007, 08:44:43 PM
Quote from: Gawain on June 14, 2007, 03:01:23 PM
so you are always the host? ;P
sad but true: if you don't organize a matchup via xfire, hosting or letting your mate host is the best way not to get kicked/flamed all the time and play other maps than aqua/club...
btw in the last time, i joined some "pros only" labeled games, but i pwned them easily and i really don't consider me as a pro. i'd really like an option to ban some n00b permanently who can't read the servername (and not only 1 fake acc of him).
No, I'm not always the host, but very often I am. It's because the typical routine is:
1. Login with partner. Notice that there are 18 people online
2. Filter out DM servers. Now there are two servers open, one that says "NOOBS ONLY RIFLE" and one that has 400 ping
3. Host my own server since lochang is west coast and euros would lag even more, 20 minute wait ensues before I get game.
On days where I do server hop, it's not uncommon to have 3-4 servers just close down after a beating before we can either find a consistent game or we just get fed up and I host.
That's why I stopped playing CT a year ago. I had gotten so bored with all the waiting and crappy games that I started doing things like 1 merc vs three spies. All the new players always want to be spies and it's entertaining to pwn 3 spies.
a year ago?! it was fine a year ago lol.. now it starts getting boring towards night time in the usa.
Quote from: LiVe.To.Di3 on June 21, 2007, 09:59:13 PM
a year ago?! it was fine a year ago lol.. now it starts getting boring towards night time in the usa.
Yeah i live in europe, and here if you don't set up a game with some friends, you can as well as not play...
Holy Crap!!!
yea i know. when i come back from school thats when people start playing and then later i just stop. lmao 12 people online at night
QuoteYou're a genious, the vets should play with n00bs though, cuz otherways noobz won't have a chanse to improve
I think PS should adapt a truSkill rating like Xbox live. It's a ranking which never goes down (to stop people downgrading) and is not visible to anyone in game. Because its invisible we won't see the competitiveness which comes with ranking system, whereas is also allows us to pit using skill.
You would pit people like this:
@ New Players V New Players
(New players learn basics)
@ New Players V Semi-Advanced
(New players would get slightly better by learning from semi-advanced)
@ Semi-Advanced V Semi Advanced
(Semi advanced players progress)
@ Semi-Advanced V Advanced
and thus the cycles continues, of course players could still play with their friends but this is matchmaking. Also there would never be anyone getting totally thrashed which could put them off the game, also if you
want to play experts then you could just have a tolerance setting in the matchmaking options.
I'm basically suggesting you never let the relationship between vets and noobs go bad by not letting that relationship exist at all.
it would be totally sufficient if some1 teaches the n00bs to read the server name XD
lmao i make a server NO NOOBS(means no new players) so they can understand. noobs dont know what a noob is unless they played another online game or heard about it, and i still get noobs coming in and saying OH THE SERVER SAID THAT?
FLIES (and other winged insects) that are attrached to light. So a spy shoots out a light that flies are camping at and a merc with a flashlight walks in, the fly will start following the merc until a brighter light source comes! No gameplay value but pretty funny and cool.
Quote from: Spekkio on June 08, 2007, 02:17:26 AM
Pointless elitism? Assuming that every player needs idiot boxes, sounds, and whatever have you to understand a game is pointless elitism. If you're too dumb to understand the mechanics of a game that has a comprehensive tutorial, then you should be playing Big Bird teaches the Alphabet instead of splinter cell.
LMAO !
Quote from: Overstatement on June 28, 2007, 03:38:38 AM
FLIES (and other winged insects) that are attrached to light. So a spy shoots out a light that flies are camping at and a merc with a flashlight walks in, the fly will start following the merc until a brighter light source comes! No gameplay value but pretty funny and cool.
;D ;D ;D
this + good 3d sound simulation for headphones = pure awesomeness and really NEXT GEN rofllol
Quote from: Gawain on June 30, 2007, 11:20:44 AM
Quote from: Overstatement on June 28, 2007, 03:38:38 AM
FLIES (and other winged insects) that are attrached to light. So a spy shoots out a light that flies are camping at and a merc with a flashlight walks in, the fly will start following the merc until a brighter light source comes! No gameplay value but pretty funny and cool.
;D ;D ;D
this + good 3d sound simulation for headphones = pure awesomeness and really NEXT GEN rofllol
Yeah, would make the merc unable to hear the spy, so i say no.
Quote from: Kok4f4n on June 30, 2007, 01:00:43 PM
Yeah, would make the merc unable to hear the spy, so i say no.
so if a flie is near you in rl, you stop hearing other things? oO
No, but i usually concentrate on the nearest sound, so a fly would really make my hearing nuts...
Quote from: Kok4f4n on June 30, 2007, 02:56:52 PM
No, but i usually concentrate on the nearest sound, so a fly would really make my hearing nuts...
That's your fault for prioritizing badly. I really hope you don't drive.
Quote from: Overstatement on June 30, 2007, 05:16:39 PM
That's your fault for prioritizing badly. I really hope you don't drive.
pwned?
Awesome.
Quote from: USAHOLIO on December 22, 2006, 10:45:07 PM
I agree with Psyichic. I don't know about the pc version but i know that on the xbox version, camo was easy to see unless you were far away or in the dark (or when a person had an xbox 360 they saw a green outline around people in camo which is, I know trust me, very gay), so nerfing it would just make it utterly useless.
Hey USAHOLIO! I used to be on your xbl friend's list ( Papa Skull, AppleGenocider, or baddboyz1322 ) for some reason you got removed...
Anyway, I think that whatever is necessary for the glow rods in the suit, do it. Just don't make them so bright, or so many. This reason is because if you look at DA suit, it shines so the player can see the character - bad idea. This doesn't let you get an idea of how well your character is hidden. DA had many flaws.
The green outline on the camo suit completely ruined the camo suit for everybody. Don't ask me why it happened, but I used to use camo a lot on maps like Club house and Museum but then the outline thingy started and I stopped using it. I know that this won't be a problem in project stealth, but I don't know if I will use it in PS because I stopped using it in CT...