I know people i keep saying that this will be my last post but there's always something on my mind =) + hope this will shift the conversation into something more intelligent.
OK Im not putting a comparison from ct to ps here, but in general i really think more breakable lights need to be put in place cause then the spy can actually use the shadows to hide instead of having to use camo all the time.
Quote from: AgentX_003 on November 04, 2008, 07:09:11 AM
I know people i keep saying that this will be my last post but there's always something on my mind =) + hope this will shift the conversation into something more intelligent.
OK Im not putting a comparison from ct to ps here, but in general i really think more breakable lights need to be put in place cause then the spy can actually use the shadows to hide instead of having to use camo all the time.
Ofcourse, but not a lot.
Having breakable lights means the lights need to have dynamic shadows (as in, those calculated and displayed in real time). This takes a lot resources. We actually tried it by converting all lights in Lakehouse to dynamic lights (where the most were in the halls). MR.MIC lagged like friggin' hell with his Quadcore and god knows how many RAM.
So expect them, just not that the whole map has breakable lights. Just in key places like some lights in halls, lights at objective locations, etc.
Quote from: LennardF1989 on November 04, 2008, 08:51:18 AM
Quote from: AgentX_003 on November 04, 2008, 07:09:11 AM
I know people i keep saying that this will be my last post but there's always something on my mind =) + hope this will shift the conversation into something more intelligent.
OK Im not putting a comparison from ct to ps here, but in general i really think more breakable lights need to be put in place cause then the spy can actually use the shadows to hide instead of having to use camo all the time.
Ofcourse, but not a lot.
Having breakable lights means the lights need to have dynamic shadows (as in, those calculated and displayed in real time). This takes a lot resources. We actually tried it by converting all lights in Lakehouse to dynamic lights (where the most were in the halls). MR.MIC lagged like friggin' hell with his Dual-Quadcore and 8 GBs of RAM.
Poser.
*only has single quad with 8GBs of 1066MHz RAM* :(
lolz, got too much money?
thb, spamming dynamic lights is stupid for gameplay reasons, too.
Not to cause a huge war, but it would probably be possible to make most relevant primary lighting dynamic. Obviously not all the dynamic lights would cast shadows, and not every light would be dynamic.
It could be done very similar to how SCDA does it. The rooms have to be designed carefully. Also, with each light that you turn off, another should turn on, or you might cause unfairness.
No, the maps should be just over all darker.
brakeable lights r imba, nubs.
Quote from: Spekkio on November 05, 2008, 01:23:25 AM
brakeable lights r imba, nubs.
Actually they aren't imbalanced hence why mercs are given a flashlight and flares to see.
off/on your drugs again?
i too have a special request for PS
why not give the spys night vision? :-\
They have...
Quote from: Roberto1223 on November 05, 2008, 11:45:25 PM
i too have a special request for PS
why not give the spys night vision? :-\
please for the love of god stop asking redundant questions, I regret telling you about this project because 99.9 percent of your posts , and that 1% of a decent post have derailed alot of topics.
lololLololoLOlololoLOLOLOLOL. YOU brought him here?!?!
DA's Lighting is ass becuase they made all the lights dynamic.
We will try to make what lights we think would be good to be breakable for gameplay purposes breakable. Also, since only certain lights will be breakable, we will need special looking Lights or hud effect or something to let the player know exactly what lights are breakable by just looking at it.
Quote from: AgentX_003 on November 06, 2008, 12:19:27 AM
Quote from: Roberto1223 on November 05, 2008, 11:45:25 PM
i too have a special request for PS
why not give the spys night vision? :-\
please for the love of god stop asking redundant questions, I regret telling you about this project because 99.9 percent of your posts , and that 1% of a decent post have derailed alot of topics.
dude i dont even think u told me man moxy did.. anyway
i know there is night vision, im just kidding man.
IT IS OBVIOUS THAT A SPLINTERCELL OR PROJECT STEALTH GAME WILL HAVE BREAKABLE LIGHTS, WHY EVEN ASK FOR THEM U NUMBNUTS (AGENTx003)
oh and that goes for "umm will u guys fix charge while hanging? durrr?" "oh man my head is on fire with all these ideas!"
_____________________________
oh and BTW:
reÃ,·dunÃ,·dant (r-dndnt)
adj.
1. Exceeding what is necessary or natural; superfluous.
2. Needlessly wordy or repetitive in expression: a student paper filled with redundant phrases.
3. Of or relating to linguistic redundancy.
4. Chiefly British Dismissed or laid off from work, as for being no longer needed.
5. Electronics Of or involving redundancy in electronic equipment.
6. Of or involving redundancy in the transmission of messages.
my questiion isnt even wordy or repetitive, and its like my second reply to one of ur lame threads..
Actually, Roberto, it could be argued that your topic is redundant to someone who finds the idea silly and not worthy of discussion. It would then follow the first definition of redundancy for it is exceeding what is necessary to discuss. However, the humorous aspect to agent's statement is how many redundant topics he has had in the past. Like the pot calling the kettle black. ::)
;D
response to the CPU and RAM:
If you have a very good CPU, it doesnt really matter. Sure it helps a ton, but if you have a weak GPU, you're getting no where fast. Dynamic lights are calculated on the GPU. Plus, even if you have a octo-core, that also does not matter, unless the engine is optimized and uses all cores, which i highly doubt.
UT3 is optimized for multicores. I max everything out at highest res on my quad @ 60 fps.
Quote from: greenday5494 on November 09, 2008, 07:52:59 PM
response to the CPU and RAM:
If you have a very good CPU, it doesnt really matter. Sure it helps a ton, but if you have a weak GPU, you're getting no where fast. Dynamic lights are calculated on the GPU. Plus, even if you have a octo-core, that also does not matter, unless the engine is optimized and uses all cores, which i highly doubt.
Any PC game not capable of running at 60+ fps on decent settings on a computer that is at least two years old is poorly designed.
Quote from: Spekkio on November 09, 2008, 08:15:57 PM
Quote from: greenday5494 on November 09, 2008, 07:52:59 PM
response to the CPU and RAM:
If you have a very good CPU, it doesnt really matter. Sure it helps a ton, but if you have a weak GPU, you're getting no where fast. Dynamic lights are calculated on the GPU. Plus, even if you have a octo-core, that also does not matter, unless the engine is optimized and uses all cores, which i highly doubt.
Any PC game not capable of running at 60+ fps on decent settings on a computer that is at least two years old is poorly designed.
Then you should blame Epic, we have no control over how effects should be calculated. Only thing UnrealScript can do is add them and remove them again.
I am not blaming anyone. It was more of a general comment that game developers fall in love with making games that push graphics to the limit; however, it alienates 90+% of gamers because people don't buy a new computer every 4 months.
Quote from: Spekkio on November 13, 2008, 01:51:52 AM
I am not blaming anyone. It was more of a general comment that game developers fall in love with making games that push graphics to the limit; however, it alienates 90+% of gamers because people don't buy a new computer every 4 months.
I'm somewhere around the 5-6 year part.
Quote from: Vega on November 13, 2008, 02:44:50 AM
Quote from: Spekkio on November 13, 2008, 01:51:52 AM
I am not blaming anyone. It was more of a general comment that game developers fall in love with making games that push graphics to the limit; however, it alienates 90+% of gamers because people don't buy a new computer every 4 months.
I'm somewhere around the 5-6 year part.
You still have a Pentium 3?? Normal lifetime of a PC is around 3 years.
You have to figure that of those "normal lifetimes," the vast majority of those computers were not "state-of-the-art" at the time they were purchased. Most people don't lay out the extra cash to get the latest and greatest hardware in their systems; instead, they are buying the $800 Dell special.
Ah-hem, it was the $1600 Dell special.
Isnt that like 100 euros?
Quote from: frvge on November 09, 2008, 08:00:29 PM
UT3 is optimized for multicores. I max everything out at highest res on my quad @ 60 fps.
LOL, what? No it's not.
UT3 is only weakly multithreaded, and even then, it's far more GPU dependent than CPU dependent.
It scaled great here and I thought I read about pretty good multithreading. Not perfect, but at least better than most engines.
Quote from: frvge on November 14, 2008, 03:15:55 PM
Isnt that like 100 euros?
More like 2027 euros. Left 4 Dead noob.
1: Euro is worth more than a dollar, so the actual value is 1251 euros.
2: Because of the low dollar, Europeans joke that the dollar is worth nothing. Example: "OMG I won 1000000 dollars!" -- "Oh, so you can buy a popsicle" or "Wow... that's almost 5 euros".
3: Your friendly sarcasm detector is broken. I suggest a repair ;)
stop derailing my threads :/ ,kkthnxbai.
Are there betas available ? hmmmmmm.... im thinkin so....... How might a mere mortal aquire such? Surely if agent has one there are no restrictions im just not sure who to ask :)
Quote from: agentsmybitch on November 15, 2008, 06:33:18 AM
Are there betas available ? hmmmmmm.... im thinkin so....... How might a mere mortal aquire such? Surely if agent has one there are no restrictions im just not sure who to ask :)
i don't have one >:( and im not ur bitch, if your nosis, Die. Further more, can we please get back on topic here.
Quote from: frvge on November 15, 2008, 02:26:24 AM
1: Euro is worth more than a dollar, so the actual value is 1251 euros.
2: Because of the low dollar, Europeans joke that the dollar is worth nothing. Example: "OMG I won 1000000 dollars!" -- "Oh, so you can buy a popsicle" or "Wow... that's almost 5 euros".
3: Your friendly sarcasm detector is broken. I suggest a repair ;)
I blame everything on Google providing false information beforehand! On the same note, the dollar is .78 of a euro, not very worthy of such drastic exaggerations. Japanese Yen on the other hand; now that's quite a visually numerical difference.
FRVGE'S SAPPIN' MAH SENTRY.
Quote from: Vega on November 15, 2008, 03:54:27 PM
Quote from: frvge on November 15, 2008, 02:26:24 AM
1: Euro is worth more than a dollar, so the actual value is 1251 euros.
2: Because of the low dollar, Europeans joke that the dollar is worth nothing. Example: "OMG I won 1000000 dollars!" -- "Oh, so you can buy a popsicle" or "Wow... that's almost 5 euros".
3: Your friendly sarcasm detector is broken. I suggest a repair ;)
I blame everything on Google providing false information beforehand! On the same note, the dollar is .78 of a euro, not very worthy of such drastic exaggerations. Japanese Yen on the other hand; now that's quite a visually numerical difference.
FRVGE'S SAPPIN' MAH SENTRY.
>:( if you wanna talk about the euro, do it in off topic not on my thread. Ass.
Calm down Agent, there's nothing more to discuss about since the answer to your topic question is on the first page.
Hahaha agent, such a goofy bitch.
An easy way to do achieve this is to cover some lights with a plastic covering. The ones you don't want to be breakable could be rendered like this. It's understandable that a sticky shocker "bullet" wouldn't penetrate through the hard plastic. Much more understandable than not being able to destroy a light bulb in some places and not in others. Examples:
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Flondon%2Fcontent%2Fimages%2F2008%2F04%2F09%2Fwinstonway1_470x300.jpg&hash=ff91b96ab6ed3c0a72c232fd7aba64ff232b65f1)
or
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.stage-services.co.uk%2Fmanorfarminst.jpg&hash=678baaecfb1a02a322a6ef3af2848376b172be2f)
And to let other lights that you want to be breakable hang like a plain light bulb.
Another easy way to make some lights believably breakable is to make some lights that you don't want breakable into natural lights. Such as, the sun, or moon's beams coming through a sky light or windows like the following:
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fascias.com%2Fmedia%2Fsky-light.JPG&hash=ab8833a0c618a36ecc41afebe393dcdf8430c9b6)
We don't need all dynamic lighting if it's really effing with performance.
hmm intresting idea papaskull, you have contributed something intelligent for once :D
i think the sky light would be awesome to be implemented maybe in a loft style type map :D
P.S. look at the Presentation THread papa Under The sticky at the top , I left you a nice message !
Loft style map, as in Presidio on R6/R6V? I would like to see a map with that kind of style.
Quote from: Papa Skull on December 01, 2008, 04:07:19 AM
Another easy way to make some lights believably breakable is to make some lights that you don't want breakable into natural lights. Such as, the sun, or moon's beams coming through a sky light or windows like the following:
What if you're in a theatre, like that room in Lake House. OH SHIT!
Gui, have you ever been to a movie theater? There are no natural lights. At all. I'm confused by your post.
Quote from: Papa Skull on December 05, 2008, 05:58:19 AM
Gui, have you ever been to a movie theater? There are no natural lights. At all. I'm confused by your post.
he didn't say movie theater.
Quote from: Papa Skull on December 05, 2008, 05:58:19 AM
There are no natural lights.
Exactly, so how do can you make the unbreakable lights being "natural lights" if there's no huge window on the ceiling?
Quote from: Gui Brazil on December 05, 2008, 01:29:25 PM
Quote from: Papa Skull on December 05, 2008, 05:58:19 AM
There are no natural lights.
Exactly, so how do can you make the unbreakable lights being "natural lights" if there's no huge window on the ceiling?
mmm fair point .i love how this thread made so much controversy xD /chaos ,
Continue.
Gui, then you make the lights in the (movie) theater have a plastic covering if you dont' want them to be breakable. Did you not see the whole post? OR, you can make the ones in the theater breakable. OR, you could have the light coming from an unreachable place, such as the projector room. Basically what I was saying in that big post with pics is that there are ways to make incomplete "dynamic" lighting believable - and not that just some identical lights are breakable and some aren't.
and westfall, he was talking about the Lake House.
But the mercs also can disable the lights by shooting at them...How can a plastic-cover protect against a merc's bullet?
Why would a merc want to disable a light? Think of those lights in club house. The ones standing upright on the floor. Hard enough glass. And you did see the other option right? Natural lights? There are plenty of ways to do this. How about candles or fireplaces?
Quote from: Papa Skull on December 07, 2008, 07:04:52 PM
Why would a merc want to disable a light?
I used to break all the lights on the second floor of Orphanage when I was bored waiting for the spies to show up...
Poison mines also blended with the dark if the spy isn't using his visions. So there was another reason to break lights for merc.
still pretty unimportant. There are plenty of ways to make lights unbreakable.
Quote from: Blank Man on December 08, 2008, 01:31:40 AM
Poison mines also blended with the dark if the spy isn't using his visions. So there was another reason to break lights for merc.
total bullshit. in a darker room the spy is way more likely to run around with thermal vision and poison mines are usually hidden behind corners anyways.
the darker it get's the more advantage the spies have, dot.
Quote from: Rambo on December 08, 2008, 01:22:06 PM
Quote from: Blank Man on December 08, 2008, 01:31:40 AM
Poison mines also blended with the dark if the spy isn't using his visions. So there was another reason to break lights for merc.
total bullshit. in a darker room the spy is way more likely to run around with thermal vision and poison mines are usually hidden behind corners anyways.
the darker it get's the more advantage the spies have, dot.
yup.
nup
The entire room doesn't necessarily have to be dark, just a corner to fit a poison and/or a spy trap. A dark wall would also hide a poison mine from the spies naked eye.
again...revert back to Rambo's post. Thermal vision will easily expose a poison mine in a dark room. Especially knowing that spies quickly loop through their visions. How often are you changing through your visions as a spy?
Quote from: AgentX_003 on December 05, 2008, 02:42:35 PM
Quote from: Gui Brazil on December 05, 2008, 01:29:25 PM
Quote from: Papa Skull on December 05, 2008, 05:58:19 AM
There are no natural lights.
Exactly, so how do can you make the unbreakable lights being "natural lights" if there's no huge window on the ceiling?
mmm fair point .i love how this thread made so much controversy xD /chaos ,
Continue.
This thread made soooooooooo much "controversy" its gonna change video games forever.
Lol, Kronf, from nowhere, from 3-point land, for the win! HE GOT IT!
And there wasn't even any controversy, at all. Kronf speaks the truth.
Quote from: kronf on December 10, 2008, 05:01:13 PM
Quote from: AgentX_003 on December 05, 2008, 02:42:35 PM
Quote from: Gui Brazil on December 05, 2008, 01:29:25 PM
Quote from: Papa Skull on December 05, 2008, 05:58:19 AM
There are no natural lights.
Exactly, so how do can you make the unbreakable lights being "natural lights" if there's no huge window on the ceiling?
mmm fair point .i love how this thread made so much controversy xD /chaos ,
Continue.
This thread made soooooooooo much "controversy" its gonna change video games forever.
How about dynamic drapes that cover windows that can be tied/untied!?!?
SHEETS!
ftw
how did i no tink of dat?
Quote from: LennardF1989 on November 04, 2008, 08:51:18 AM
Quote from: AgentX_003 on November 04, 2008, 07:09:11 AM
I know people i keep saying that this will be my last post but there's always something on my mind =) + hope this will shift the conversation into something more intelligent.
OK Im not putting a comparison from ct to ps here, but in general i really think more breakable lights need to be put in place cause then the spy can actually use the shadows to hide instead of having to use camo all the time.
Ofcourse, but not a lot.
Having breakable lights means the lights need to have dynamic shadows (as in, those calculated and displayed in real time). This takes a lot resources. We actually tried it by converting all lights in Lakehouse to dynamic lights (where the most were in the halls). MR.MIC lagged like friggin' hell with his Quadcore and god knows how many RAM.
So expect them, just not that the whole map has breakable lights. Just in key places like some lights in halls, lights at objective locations, etc.
im not trying to be an ass (so please forgive me!)
i remember in warehouse, sector 2, you can shoot out those little tiny lights near the merc's spawn door in the already rather dark room. all those little lights in the hallway as well. those didnt cast shadows. Also, i only really ever worked with the Source Engine, and it's predecessor, Goldsrc, but instead of having full dynamic lights, you can use a two-state lightmapped light which has 2 states, one for off, one for on. sure it may use slightly more texture memory, but modern hardware today should be more than up to it. Also, does UE3 use lightmaps, precompiled, or does it use totally dynamic lighting like the FEAR engine?
Also, rendering shadows im 90% sure has nothing to do with the CPU, it's all rendered and calculated on the GPU, so for argument's sake, whats mr.mics GPU?
Yes Greenday, I believe you are right. The first part at least, no clue whether or not GPU is what renders shadows and such.
That's something Mic has to answer.
And yes, you are right that shadows are rendered on GPU, but FIRST. When your GPU RAM is full, it moves on to your CPU/Ram (shared memory/TurboCache - which most notebooks have -).
I took a quick look at the light source codes, and it seems you can make light toggleable, even when they dont cast dynamic shadows (as in, static lights can be turned on and off, IN THEORY, I don't trust UnrealScript at all, seeing is believing).
BUT, that would mean it only affects the shadows of BSP and StaticMeshes, NOT dynamic things like the playermodels (as that requires making the shadows dynamic*).
To maintain compability with both low-end and high-end system, it's probably best if we make some kind of fake-shadowing system (which simulated dynamic shadows). Or we could selectively turn on DynamicShadows on max 2 lights in a radius of 200 units.
I will have to talk to Mic about this.
Hope that clears up some things.
* Point 4 DirectionalLights on a playermodel with the DynamicShadows on and your PC will lag. This might be a maximum of 10 on high-end PC's. But imagine TWO playermodels on a high-end PC under 10 dynamic lights...
Quote from: LennardF1989 on April 09, 2009, 03:09:39 PM
That's something Mic has to answer.
And yes, you are right that shadows are rendered on GPU, but FIRST. When your GPU RAM is full, it moves on to your CPU/Ram (shared memory/TurboCache - which most notebooks have -).
I took a quick look at the light source codes, and it seems you can make light toggleable, even when they dont cast dynamic shadows (as in, static lights can be turned on and off, IN THEORY, I don't trust UnrealScript at all, seeing is believing).
BUT, that would mean it only affects the shadows of BSP and StaticMeshes, NOT dynamic things like the playermodels (as that requires making the shadows dynamic*).
To maintain compability with both low-end and high-end system, it's probably best if we make some kind of fake-shadowing system (which simulated dynamic shadows). Or we could selectively turn on DynamicShadows on max 2 lights in a radius of 200 units.
I will have to talk to Mic about this.
Hope that clears up some things.
* Point 4 DirectionalLights on a playermodel with the DynamicShadows on and your PC will lag. This might be a maximum of 10 on high-end PC's. But imagine TWO playermodels on a high-end PC under 10 dynamic lights...
Aye. But i always thought that Unreal 3 had totally dynamic lights, like Doom 3. so it still has precompiled lightmaps? One more thing as well, in source at least, the surrounding environment DOES affect the playermodel, the model isnt just fullbright except with dynamic lights. They call that ambient Occlusion if im correct?
also, in CT, when you do shoot out those lights, it makes the brushes, props (static meshes as you call them in unreal), and player models affected.