Example:
----------------
You've got 35 pounds limit as a spy
Smoke grenades weigh 2 pounds each as well as flashes and chaffs
sticky cam: 2 pounds
snare: 1 pound
bullet: 1 pound
camosuit gear: 8 pounds
heartbeat sensor: 7 pounds
Pick what you will.
----------------
I hope you get the idea. basically we give a little bit more freedom for the player with the gadgetry.
Changes to gameplay:
-More customisability (spelling?)
-A spy or merc who knows the map and the ins and outs of the gadgets gets significantly stronger by increased versatility
-You can do a lot more things and be a "jack of all trades" for a little while until you notice that everything you had is gone
-Even more gadget dilemmas: how many snares should i take? and flashes? Ow and I spend a lot of bullets too... (well this goes both ways: a stealthy spy can now have an easier time if he needs a lot of different stuff)
-It's almost impossible to know your opponents gadgets and his capabilities
-It's more simple to balance different gadgets, example: spytraps weigh less than mines
Thoughts?
Such a system is tricky for balance IMO.
Our first goal is to clone CT, so the gadget system will be like that.
I know the first goal, but it's better to discuss things while we (testers and other community members) wait and not after the main work is done. I agree with the balancing issues though. Also it would be pain to make the interface quick and effective to switch to cams and such if you've got like 7 different types of gadgets along with you.
EDIT: I guess there should still be a limit on how many smokes and cams etc. you could take. Otherwise it would be a spamfest.
While I like the concept of being able to change the amounts of your gadgets, I would probably say that we should still have a limit to the number of gadget types you can have. So you still get four things to choose from, but you can vary the amount. Possibly you can also tweak your gadgets without amounts with other things.
So a merc can take "two" backpacks and get double capacity in his backpack, or a double gas mask that has a larger air supply.
Only big issue would be mercs taking a full mine loadout and covering the level in mines, but if you enforced the mine/spytrap cap, you'd probably be ok regarding that.
yea that would be kinda stupid not saying that your idea is because i respect it but in my opinion 4 or 5 eq at one time for spy and merc and thats it simple just like CT
I actually like the idea, and if it were implemented there shouldn't be a cap of 4 gadgets. If you were taking 8 gadgets, you don't have many of each. I mean, what are you gonna do with just one alarm snare anyway?
Yeah, it'd need balance tweaking, but it's definitely feesible. Grenade "spamming" can be prevented by making the weight cap coincide with taking the 15 grenades you have now if you take smoke/chaff/flash. That's not too hard to do.
IMO the best part is the way you can balance different gadgets. We would be seeing a lot of new merc gadget combos if tazer, spytraps, and the all too mighty flare (which would really need some improvement, FE: bigger radius along with longer duration) would weight less than the usual crowd: mines, frags and gasmask.
15 smoke grenades and 5 bullets...
Quote from: Lurch on March 04, 2007, 10:21:54 AM
IMO the best part is the way you can balance different gadgets. We would be seeing a lot of new merc gadget combos if tazer, spytraps, and the all too mighty flare (which would really need some improvement, FE: bigger radius along with longer duration) would weight less than the usual crowd: mines, frags and gasmask.
Spytraps might be more popular if you got more of them (also maybe placing a security failure message if a spytrap gets chaffed or shot out, but not removed).
The tazer becomes useful if you go to the PT style of tazer, as opposed to the awful 1 ft range CT tazer.
Whether we see flares probably depends on if we fix MT night vision. If you can see in the dark with MT, then nobody even cares about flares. Ever. Flares also need to be fire and forget. I'd say probably just give three of them per package, but allow people to reload them at an ammo box. Flares need to be something you can dump haphazardly and not even care.
I'm almost inclined to just have flares be mandatory gear that every merc gets, much like his flashlight. Or possibly allow a choice between merc laser or merc flares maybe.
ill say it again to keep it normal man.. maybe have 5 eq at one time instead of 4 idk but with weight i just dont see a point maybe because i dont like that idea :/ but still maybe 5eq we all know that if this does happen there will be new eq for both merc and spy so just have fun with that
i also like the idea of a custom loadout based on weight. First rule is of course making sure the weight coincides with current CT loadouts.
I also want to propose mercs having the ability to change their gun at ammo depots.
i guess but still i would just make it normal mode because if people cheat they will make inf weight and i think you know what that means right? ;D
Uh... I'm not getting your logic...
Customisable equip will be prone to hacking... Whereas hard set equip (normal) will not be?
What's the difference?
since there is a weight limit on 35 points correct and every eq weighs o idk w.e amount. The cheater can just make the weight limit inf and have all the equitment ALL of it instead of just 4 get it? Whereas 4 eq inf aint so bad thinking you can have a lot more
uh.....what val means is that if you can hack CT equipment....it will not be any different then hacking our game.
what is difficult, is knowing if your oppenent cheating.
During spawning of a game character (so also when respawning), verifying the CRC or some other hash, should get rid of 'white' textures for spies and stuff.
Quote from: goodkebab on March 28, 2007, 09:38:46 AM
uh.....what val means is that if you can hack CT equipment....it will not be any different then hacking our game.
what is difficult, is knowing if your oppenent cheating.
I'd think that'd be pretty easy, I mean you can have the game send the loadout to all the machines, and if the loadout isn't legal, it can bring up a message "Player X is over weight limit"
And if during play the guy uses more grenades than it initially said he had at loadout, then you can also get a warning message.
Out of all the things to cheat on, transcending equipment limits is by far the easiest to check if the software is designed to do so.
Going with the over weight limit thing, it would also be interesting if instead of stoping the spy from taking all of the gadgets, his abilities just go down with out them.
for example, carrying too many weapons causes the spy not to jump so high, or grab on to ledges. Possibly not be able to run as fast or something.
good idea but im guessing that since there won't be any rank then no cheating which is too bad because i enjoyed rank but w.e. I still think someone will say "woa i wana try to cheat in this game" and it will all start :-\
Quote from: InvisibleMan999 on March 31, 2007, 03:22:28 AM
I'd think that'd be pretty easy, I mean you can have the game send the loadout to all the machines, and if the loadout isn't legal, it can bring up a message "Player X is over weight limit"
Unless it sends the wrong infomation (or info was intercepted and changed) because it's been hacked!
Quote from: Overstatement on March 31, 2007, 06:37:07 AM
Unless it sends the wrong infomation (or info was intercepted and changed) because it's been hacked!
Thing is that it can tell right information from wrong information because the loadout has to obey certain rules. So whatever modified info it sends can be verified too. So if it sends the actual loadout, say 50 smokes and 50 flashbangs, it gets flagged for being illegal right there. But lets say it sends a fake loadout, so it says 4 smokes and 5 bangs.
That can be checked during play by simply keeping a running track of the information you've received earlier. So for instance, it said 4 smokes and 5 flashbangs, your system is keeping track of how many times the other guy uses his smokes and bangs during the match. Obviously, he has to send you information when he's using them, otherwise they won't even affect you on your screen (or possibly cause a server desync). So if you catch him using more bangs or smokes than he should you get a message pop-up.
There's really no way to fake it. All you might be able to do is have an always-on heartbeat sensor, the other gadgets all produce effects on the other guy's screen and would thus be easy to check and verify.
Unless the cheater says this mine he's placing is owned by a neutal non-user 3rd team that the programmer put in to own neutal stuff like laser sensors!
The point is, programs are big, programmed by people as smart as you or me with a lot more time to plan but constantly hacked almost always as a result of the programer doing something wrong. Since you can't simply tell him to stop making mistakes, being hacked is just a matter of time. So we better crank out those patches.
There is no such thing as a non-trivial bugfree program.
Which is why I get Formal Program Verification in 2 weeks :D yay for bugfree functions (only the most important ones, it's too costly to make it all perfect).