I've seen talk about how the spy ran too slow in CT. I don't believe so at all; I believe that its that the Merc could look around wayy to fast!
I've been playing the Xbox SvM for 5 years. I started to play CT on the computer because it has more options and more people that seem to play it. I was COMPLETELY turned off to the PC version because of how the Merc plays like any other FPS. They don't even have to watch their back as much because they can turn around in a complete instant. I just don't quite see how fair that is, and I do personally believe this game is designed with the console gamer in mind (look at how much Ubisoft has ignored PC gamers).
And yeah, I know the mouse is a lot more accurate at aiming and all that. But I can still headshot the hell out of everyone with my SMG on the xbox, anyone I've played could tell you that.
Idk, I just don't have interest in the PC version for that reason, and was wanting to start a discussion about it. I'm assuming Mercs will be like that in PS too huh..
i hadnt ever heard anybody complain about spies' running speed. maybe climbing speed yeah but running speed was pretty good.
maybe you can adjust axis sensitivity on your xbox controller too. its not such a big deal. thats what options are for. they are meant to help people adjust the game to their needs. and nah i dont think limiting turning speed is cool at all... cause turning fast is essential for a game where one needs eyes on the back of the head.
Well I think you're wrong.
Spies were overpowered on the consoles because of that.
hm. I've just always thought that feeling bulky and slow, with slow sensitivity, was a huge disadvantage to the merc. And giving him full range of that movement gives him more advantage.
I just think its harder on the spy. While sneaking passed a merc with his back turned, the merc could easily turn around in an instant.
Im not sure; maybe I just haven't played the PC version enough, but I see this as a big deal.
The merc isn't a fatty.
Wasn't there a turn 180 button on the Xbox version anyway? I'm pretty certain I remember people talking about something like that.
Yes. Consoles had a quick-turn button. Mouse is more accurate and probably faster.
We will probably not change the Merc's turning speed. People can decide for themselves how fast they want to turn by adjusting mouse settings. The slower, the more disadvantage of course...
I would like to correct Frvge, there will probably a max turning speed, just like the max rotation speed of the spy, which is essentially the same only in 3rd person.
It pretty much works like this (for the spy):
- Spy can suddently move his camera an other way below the max rotation speed treshold.
- When the angle of turn is bigger than 120 degrees (if recall correctly), you stop moving and wait till you rotated.
- Spy can also suddently move his camera an other way but go above the max rotation speed treshold.
- In such a case, it doesn't matter if your angle is smaller than 120 degrees, you just stop[ moving and won't rotate faster.
- Besides that we also have an option to "unclip" the camera. What this does is leave the spy behind the camera rotation if you go beyond the max rotation speed, this instead of slowing down your camera rotation dynamically. With slow rotation speeds, this works pretty neat, but the spies rotation by nature is very fast so we have the dynamic way.
All in all, we will probably have a same kind of ruleset for the mercenary.
Quote from: LennardF1989 on December 31, 2009, 02:42:12 PM
I would like to correct Frvge, there will probably a max turning speed, just like the max rotation speed of the spy, which is essentially the same only in 3rd person.
It pretty much works like this (for the spy):
- Spy can suddently move his camera an other way below the max rotation speed treshold.
- When the angle of turn is bigger than 120 degrees (if recall correctly), you stop moving and wait till you rotated.
- Spy can also suddently move his camera an other way but go above the max rotation speed treshold.
- In such a case, it doesn't matter if your angle is smaller than 120 degrees, you just stop[ moving and won't rotate faster.
- Besides that we also have an option to "unclip" the camera. What this does is leave the spy behind the camera rotation if you go beyond the max rotation speed, this instead of slowing down your camera rotation dynamically. With slow rotation speeds, this works pretty neat, but the spies rotation by nature is very fast so we have the dynamic way.
All in all, we will probably have a same kind of ruleset for the mercenary.
I think this is a very bad idea for the merc.
We'll make the Merc just like a normal FPS. Player controls how fast he turns.
Either way, we will have extensive testing and adjustments when the time comes.
Any serious problems that arise in public beta will be addressed.
Correct. :) Power to the UDK!
QuoteI would like to correct Frvge, there will probably a max turning speed, just like the max rotation speed of the spy, which is essentially the same only in 3rd person.
It pretty much works like this (for the spy):
- Spy can suddently move his camera an other way below the max rotation speed treshold.
- When the angle of turn is bigger than 120 degrees (if recall correctly), you stop moving and wait till you rotated.
- Spy can also suddently move his camera an other way but go above the max rotation speed treshold.
- In such a case, it doesn't matter if your angle is smaller than 120 degrees, you just stop[ moving and won't rotate faster.
- Besides that we also have an option to "unclip" the camera. What this does is leave the spy behind the camera rotation if you go beyond the max rotation speed, this instead of slowing down your camera rotation dynamically. With slow rotation speeds, this works pretty neat, but the spies rotation by nature is very fast so we have the dynamic way.
All in all, we will probably have a same kind of ruleset for the mercenary.
This is a bad idea . Merc will be dead meat specially against faster spies and taz , flash , smoke aggro even more so against 2 spies .
If there is a limit to how fast he can turn , the spy will just have to adjust and easily grab him knowing he can't turn around faster than X speed , the reason it was hard to grab a merc in a 1vs1 in ct that spy couldn't guess faster where mercs back would be since he could turn it instantly .
Quote from: Snakebit. on January 01, 2010, 05:12:34 PM
QuoteI would like to correct Frvge, there will probably a max turning speed, just like the max rotation speed of the spy, which is essentially the same only in 3rd person.
It pretty much works like this (for the spy):
- Spy can suddently move his camera an other way below the max rotation speed treshold.
- When the angle of turn is bigger than 120 degrees (if recall correctly), you stop moving and wait till you rotated.
- Spy can also suddently move his camera an other way but go above the max rotation speed treshold.
- In such a case, it doesn't matter if your angle is smaller than 120 degrees, you just stop[ moving and won't rotate faster.
- Besides that we also have an option to "unclip" the camera. What this does is leave the spy behind the camera rotation if you go beyond the max rotation speed, this instead of slowing down your camera rotation dynamically. With slow rotation speeds, this works pretty neat, but the spies rotation by nature is very fast so we have the dynamic way.
All in all, we will probably have a same kind of ruleset for the mercenary.
This is a bad idea . Merc will be dead meat specially against faster spies and taz , flash , smoke aggro even more so against 2 spies .
If there is a limit to how fast he can turn , the spy will just have to adjust and easily grab him knowing he can't turn around faster than X speed , the reason it was hard to grab a merc in a 1vs1 in ct that spy couldn't guess faster where mercs back would be since he could turn it instantly .
I agree completely. I didn't even think about the fact that even with instant-turning ability, a CT merc was basically dead against two proficient aggro spies going for a kill. Nerfing the rotation speed only ensures this.
From what I have seen of the Xbox version of CT, it looks like the controls and how the game plays in general is bad compared to the PC version of the game. There are many things in CT on PC that can be improved, I know that, but the mercs' turning is definitely not one of them.
Limiting turn speed is a bad idea.
However, I do think that quick sniping will need a looking at. I know that it's a difficult maneuver to accomplish, but good players were able to do it consistently enough that it borked the game balance. You have to balance the game assuming everyone plays perfectly. Reducing the transition speed by 25-50% and reducing the sniping ROF 25-50% will probably be in order.
Spekkio , the sniping was perfect in ct . If you make it even MORE slower it would be useless . Besides there are ways to countering sniping like throwing flash or tazing .
Doing headshots a lot takes skill and should not be punishable . It is the same as in ct , people were good at tazing and what they did ? Took out the tazer in da . People were bad at looking for their neck and what they did ? They added sensor ....
If someone is good at something it doesn't mean that it should be changed so you could have an edge over that person because his good side was nerfed .
The key to a good balanced game , is not to make it as stupid and as easy as possible so the medium can be the best . But to make it complicated to an extent so individuals will have their good and bad points.
There is very little a spy can do against someone who is proficient at quick sniping, regardless of skill level. I'm talking about people who are able to aim with the reticle and get a headshot within the next second because you could shoot during the transition and it counted as a sniper shot. There were quite a lot of people capable of doing this with a good success rate during CT's peak popularity, including Mr.Mic. It's not like it's an overtly difficult skill to learn considering the large popularity of PC FPS games. The main issue is the speed which the merc can transition to snipe mode and fire a shot, which is faster than a spy can draw his sticky shocker or throw a flash grenade...the generous ROF for a sniper rifle that also has a good full-auto and the fact that it cancels out flash (a trait I'm assuming will go away, but the ROF is still slightly too high) makes it easy for them to re-target quickly.
I disagree that sniping would become useless. The transition was slower in PT and people still sniped.
And don't come back with "lol don't be seen by merc11!" because you know as well as I do that you're going to have to KO or aggro the merc in some way to accomplish your goals on most of the maps.
The only two options are to nerf quick sniping, or make the game so that the spies don't have to encounter mercs to win. Since you agree with me that the latter would just make for boring gameplay, nerf the sniping. You could do it with ROF or damage, but I think ROF is the better choice.
Spekkio , i knew what you have been talking about but it takes a ) skill to do it b ) it is counterable c ) there are ways to dodge that .
I haven't played a game in pt/ct when i died all 4/5 times with 4/5 instant headshots . At max i rememmber it was 2 may be 3 but it takes luck ......
Not encoutering merc the maximum you can is one the key points of ct . You don't encouter then unless you totally need that but total stealth should not be possible because they game would be boring shit if it was so .
The ct sniping was fine . Besides its pretty hard to pull it off close range.... when someone is not trying to taz or cam .... The most time people die from snipe is either because they cam or taz as spy .
QuoteI haven't played a game in pt when i died all 4/5 times with 4/5 instant headshots . At max i rememmber it was 2 may be 3 but it takes luck
You can't do it in PT, you can only do it in CT. And 2-3 kills is sufficient to drastically reduce the spy's chances of winning.
Luck? Maybe sometimes, but I know quite a few people who had the skill of being able to do it.
The fact that it takes skill is irrelevant. If I found some secret move that took skill to pull off, but would guaruntee me a win if I did it, then I'd master that skill and do it everytime. Like I said, you have to balance the game at the top level. That doesn't mean rewarding people with free kills because they can aim quickly with a mouse.
How is it counterable? If the merc sees you, you're dead, since like I said he can snipe faster than you can react.
I ment ct sorry .
Being able to do it once in a couple of games is one thing . Being able to do it 2 times in a row is luck .
Spies can throw flash can't they . Spies are 3rd person so ambush the merc , don't let the merc ambush you.
Quote from: Snakebit. on January 06, 2010, 02:57:48 AM
I ment ct sorry .
Being able to do it once in a couple of games is one thing . Being able to do it 2 times in a row is luck .
I disagree, and in a game that is popular, you're going to get more than a few teenagers with lots of free time who can pull this off at least 50% of the time, maybe more.
Maybe you still have the huge ego I remember you having, so anyone who kills you two times in a row that quickly must be one lucky sob.
QuoteSpies can throw flash can't they . Spies are 3rd person so ambush the merc , don't let the merc ambush you.
Spies can throw flash, but I reiterate that the quicksnipe is faster than the flash quick-throw. There's also this thing called motion tracking and EMF that prevent flash from working, so they can just quicksnipe again if they missed the first time.
Also, forget ambush and crap. I'm talking about a tactically neutral situation where the spy knows a merc is in a spot, and the merc knows a spy is in a spot. This situation is automatically given to the merc because he can get a headshot faster than the spy can do anything. This is in addition to the tactical advantage the merc gains by not having to go into snipe mode until the very last second, thus increasing his visibility. In theory you can say just go around, but there are bottlenecks on many maps where you have to infiltrate past the mercs. Of course if you ambush a merc he won't quicksnipe you, but you also won't be able to react if he ambushes you even with a slower snipe transition. There's nothing wrong with that because that's just taking advantage of a tactical advantage.
QuoteThe ct sniping was fine . Besides its pretty hard to pull it off close range....
Actually, mid-close range is the best place to pull it off because it's easiest to aim accurately with the full auto reticle.
Wasn't one of the problems that you could fire before the scope was zoomed in?
Yes, and I said that in my post above. Hence the 25-50% reduction in transition speed suggestion.
Only thing keeping the sniper in check right now is lag, packet loss and otherwise shitty netcode. But back in the day when there were enough people to find a good server, yea... and I wonder why the merc's winrate was in the 80-90% range...
QuoteI disagree, and in a game that is popular, you're going to get more than a few teenagers with lots of free time who can pull this off at least 50% of the time, maybe more.
Maybe you still have the huge ego I remember you having, so anyone who kills you two times in a row that quickly must be one lucky sob.
A lot of successful people are arrogant but they are not arrogant because they are just arrogant they are arrogant because they are successful so ill take that as a compliment .
QuoteSpies can throw flash, but I reiterate that the quicksnipe is faster than the flash quick-throw. There's also this thing called motion tracking and EMF that prevent flash from working, so they can just quicksnipe again if they missed the first time.
But i am not sure ....
Also, forget ambush and crap. I'm talking about a tactically neutral situation where the spy knows a merc is in a spot, and the merc knows a spy is in a spot. This situation is automatically given to the merc because he can get a headshot faster than the spy can do anything. This is in addition to the tactical advantage the merc gains by not having to go into snipe mode until the very last second, thus increasing his visibility. In theory you can say just go around, but there are bottlenecks on many maps where you have to infiltrate past the mercs. Of course if you ambush a merc he won't quicksnipe you, but you also won't be able to react if he ambushes you even with a slower snipe transition. There's nothing wrong with that because that's just taking advantage of a tactical advantage.
You see your assumption starts with that merc knows for sure where spy is . Your are a bad spy if the merc always knows exactly where you are . Even with total Eax you can't tell exactly where the spy is .
QuoteActually, mid-close range is the best place to pull it off because it's easiest to aim accurately with the full auto reticle.
As i said its pretty much based on being static and luck .
Me and solidus won 75% of our spy round . If you remember the tourney it was something like 5-1 or 5-0 against everybody except you if i remember correctly , you were the only one who got 5-2 vs us.
It takes a bit more skill and teamplay though. But it is not impossible .
QuoteYou see your assumption starts with that merc knows for sure where spy is .
He doesn't have to know for sure, he has to have an idea and be facing in the general direction. Not hard when he has his entire FOV at his disposal because he can quick-snipe. If the spy appears on screen, the aim and snipe part takes a second or less.
And of course my assumption starts out like this... it would be silly to call for a nerf without starting with a tactically equal or disadvantageous situation for the merc.
QuoteYour are a bad spy if the merc always knows exactly where you are . Even with total Eax you can't tell exactly where the spy is .
Okay, and irrelevant.
Quote
Me and solidus won 75% of our spy round . If you remember the tourney it was something like 5-1 or 5-0 against everybody except you if i remember correctly , you were the only one who got 5-2 vs us.
If lochang or I were able to quick-snipe, it'd have been 5-4 :P
Hey spekkio i am not that good of a sniper although i was decent in pt .
And as i said . I rarely had trouble against instant-snipers . Doing it all the time deppends on luck and it is possible to stabily win a lot against very good snipers .
What if you the devs just take out firing while in transition. I think that would help.
I'm pretty sure we will. Dont forget we have MR.Mic on the team for balancing that kind of stuff. He'll decide, I think.
Quote from: Snakebit. on January 06, 2010, 03:38:10 AMAnd as i said . I rarely had trouble against instant-snipers . Doing it all the time deppends on luck and it is possible to stabily win a lot against very good snipers .
Well, it certainly helped that the vast majority of people who could quick snipe consistently were of the "fast twitch" skillset and couldn't think tactically very well, which is a very important skillset for SvM. But that's no justification for its existance.
PS: For the love of god, stop putting spaces before periods. I know you can see how every single other person on this forum types (except for agent, but he's a moron), and I know that your excuse can't be laziness because it takes an extra keystroke to put the space there.
@Savior, That's what I mean when I say to "increase the transition time." It should take 1.25-1.75 sec between pressing the snipe button and being able to shoot, currently it takes < 1 sec.
By the same token, get rid of the spy's sticky shocker auto-aim. You draw your weapon, spy aims it at the center of your screen, whichever way you happen to be looking.
Spies will be faster now so it will be harder to shoot them and now you wanna make sniping even harder . Those things combined will make sniping CONSIDERABLY harder ....
Where are you getting that from? AFAIK, the spy's move speed is going to be identical to PT/CT.
And again, PLEASE stop putting spaces before periods.
I don't mind the merc turning speed being reflex-fast (unlike the console version). While the console version required mercs to work together more to stay alive, I always felt like it missed the point. The merc was supposed to be the hunter -- the powerful one who stalked his prey and kept the objectives safe. The online community for CT eventually evolved the opposite way. Spies would stalk mercs from the shadows and easily kill them. It was more frightening and nerve wracking playing as a merc then it was as a "weaponless" spy.
A quick turning speed for the mercs would give them an advantage, and force aggro spies to either be very good, very cooperative or very lucky. Spies go for objectives. Mercs go for spies. Spies focus on stealth and recon, mercs focus on setting traps and patrolling.
I agree with Spekkio that it should take just a little longer for the merc to fire his/her first shot in sniping-mode. That would keep the sniping skill but it would also force the merc to choose; am I sniping, or am I free to move around with my scope down? As it is right now, the merc can have to best of two worlds. Not that I find it a really big problem, but it's still wrong imo.
Quote from: Spekkio on January 06, 2010, 04:07:38 AM
Quote from: Snakebit. on January 06, 2010, 03:38:10 AMAnd as i said . I rarely
@Savior, That's what I mean when I say to "increase the transition time." It should take 1.25-1.75 sec between pressing the snipe button and being able to shoot, currently it takes < 1 sec.
I think most of its due to the shitty netcode, i always find i get sniped more on laggy / polish servers.
Quote from: I <3 UI think most of its due to the shitty netcode, i always find i get sniped more on laggy / polish servers.
Actually most of the better snipers I can remember were from this side of the pond. Polish people can't figure out which side of the gun to point at the spy :P
I agree with Spekkio as well. Being able to start sniping before even in sniper-mode doesn't make sense, and should be unique to CT and avoided in PS. Also, if we were to think about across the pond playing, not once was a game relatively "good" because of the netcode. Only frustrating by the lag-luck.
Agreed on the quick-snipe stuff, it was sometimes really frustrating to be gunned down from across the room in a second before you could even react. Altho there were usually some ways around it, it still just felt wrong.
Also the auto-aim to the center of the screen with the sticky shocker should stay in my opinion. It would add just another weird hassle to it. Say you're walking thro a corridor and look to your right while still walking forward (like you'd just turn your head) and you see a merc coming right at you. You intent to shock him to make your escape, but end up aiming somewhere completely different because the aim was pointed at where your body was looking at, and not at what you were looking at. It just feels more natural the way it is.
If this wasn't Spekkio's point then feel free to correct me.
About the whole turning speed subject, what about a custom limiter that gives both the twitch shooter and the spy a chance to use their skills.
In the console version of CT, the merc had a limited turning speed, but had a floating crosshair that could traverse a large portion of the screen. Using something similar to this could work, have the crosshair move around the screen at however quickly it needs to, but have the acceleration dampened once the screen starts to pan, this allows for twitch-headshots when presented on-screen, but turning around to check your back still requires a fraction of time, (but still a bit quicker than the consoles, I agree that was a bit slow).
Quote from: ShadowX on January 08, 2010, 11:41:09 PM
Also the auto-aim to the center of the screen with the sticky shocker should stay in my opinion. It would add just another weird hassle to it. Say you're walking thro a corridor and look to your right while still walking forward (like you'd just turn your head) and you see a merc coming right at you. You intent to shock him to make your escape, but end up aiming somewhere completely different because the aim was pointed at where your body was looking at, and not at what you were looking at. It just feels more natural the way it is.
Yep I agree with you.
@Window: that might work ok on a console because of it's less than optimal accuracy of acceleration, but the amount of PC games that use that technique isn't really high. If we decide to port to a console, we'll probably tune it. But for now, we're going with the more common PC behaviour.
@ frvge
Understandable, just throwing an idea out there, if more people want a static c-h its chill with me.
Don't dumb down the game please >:( again .
Fast sniping was only possible with considerable amount of skill . Let it stay , isn't this supposed to stay the same as ct in most aspects , sniping was a good way of wining merc rounds in ct if you had the skills for it . >:(
It's not "dumbing down the game."
I'll use a smilar analogy for you... in Company of Heroes, a US player could use the Jeep to "push" troops out of the way while the jeep continued shooting. This would result in the opponent's troops spending all their time moving and none of their time shooting. Sure, it took "skill" to do it, but it was fucking cheap and there was no early game counter for it except to bunch your troops togethers...which ended up in conceding complete map control to the US and thus starting the slippery slope to defeat.
The same goes for quick-sniping. There is no real counter for it except to avoid the mercs completely, which isn't feesible, nor ought it be feesible since that would make the game boring.
You have to balance the game from the highest level possible. If the top 1 elite team was the only one capable of doing this, but it totally gimped balance for the mercs, then it deserves a nerf.
Oh god spekkio i doubt it was that simple in Company of Heroes.
As i said i had not that much trouble against instant snipers . It was a good trick to get skilled at to win the game but it wasn't everything to it .
After years and years of playing SCCT on the PC, I eventually invested in SCCT on the xbox as it was quite cheap on the xbox live marketplace and I had a bit of spare cash...
Its quite fun as a spy as your ridiculously overpowered compared to the PC version - The merc turning speed is so restricted...
Instead of a static crosshair which stays dead-centre in the middle of screen and moves the camera, its a floating crosshair somewhat akin to the aim system on Goldeneye on the 64! when the crosshair gets near the edge of the screen then your merc starts to (quite slowly) turn!
So in other words, everyone turns at the same speed no matter how high you make your sensitivity. while this puts everyone playing merc on an equal footing, this shit just wouldn't fly on the pc... you would have to continually run your mouse across your desk like your on low sensitivity just to do a half turn!
Poor console players :D
Quote from: scope2005 on January 26, 2010, 12:03:50 AM
After years and years of playing SCCT on the PC, I eventually invested in SCCT on the xbox as it was quite cheap on the xbox live marketplace and I had a bit of spare cash...
I was pretty much the opposite of your story. Avid player of the Xbox version of SCCT, and just recently bought the PC version in hopes that there would be players still.
I thought the Xbox version was pretty well balanced on the movement sensitivity. Granted years between playing Xbox and now the PC version, so my abilities at playing spy are lessened by a lot. Added in with Lag from people on the other side of the world. Playing as a Merc is just too easy on PC, and Spy is forced to be aggressive to win in any encounter to the death. Since turning around takes no time at all. Yes the Xbox had the 180 quick turn, but that was an option and still took time. Whereas turning on the PC version takes no time at all.
My point on this is that there is no way to bring the Xbox's controls to the PC without a riot, but that fact alone doesn't mean the PC's is balanced in any way.
The movement sensitivity in the Xbox version gave the Mercs more character, they are weighted down by heavy weapons and ammo. The spies are quick and nimble only holding light-weight items.
Without the limitations of movement, it's just generic FPS gameplay. No thought need be put into your movements, no pressure that turning around might be a bad idea, cause there is just as good of a chance that someone is in front of you.
Again, no real way to balance that for PC. No one will want limitations just because it would make the game "feel" right. They just want to shoot spies, and counter spies killing ability with "You're supposed to sneak and get objectives done, not kill the Mercs". Though deathmatch mode was added in CT for more than just "Target Practice" for Merc players.
Good first post.
Just as a general, slightly off-topic post:
our platform policy is now:
PC: yes
consoles: no, unless [reason] but that has a very very small chance of happening.
We're a bit more realistic than the optimism in the past in which PS3 and 360 were a 'yes, if...'.
Quote from: Cronky on January 26, 2010, 08:35:59 PM
Quote from: scope2005 on January 26, 2010, 12:03:50 AM
After years and years of playing SCCT on the PC, I eventually invested in SCCT on the xbox as it was quite cheap on the xbox live marketplace and I had a bit of spare cash...
I was pretty much the opposite of your story. Avid player of the Xbox version of SCCT, and just recently bought the PC version in hopes that there would be players still.
yes there is still players, its booming on the weekends about 70-80 people.
weekdays , it is like my time which is Eastern 1pm - 9pm its booming , but dies around 10 o clock and but its not a prob for me cause i just xfire cause i know alot of peeps to get games happening.
But I look forward to killing you soon :D
Quote from: AgentX_003 on January 27, 2010, 03:06:30 AM
Quote from: Cronky on January 26, 2010, 08:35:59 PM
Quote from: scope2005 on January 26, 2010, 12:03:50 AM
After years and years of playing SCCT on the PC, I eventually invested in SCCT on the xbox as it was quite cheap on the xbox live marketplace and I had a bit of spare cash...
I was pretty much the opposite of your story. Avid player of the Xbox version of SCCT, and just recently bought the PC version in hopes that there would be players still.
yes there is still players, its booming on the weekends about 70-80 people.
weekdays , it is like my time which is Eastern 1pm - 9pm its booming , but dies around 10 o clock and but its not a prob for me cause i just xfire cause i know alot of peeps to get games happening.
But I look forward to killing you soon :D
Some kind of Omen right there, cause that was also your 666th post.
...I have baaaad feelings about going online now ;)
Quote from: Cronky on January 27, 2010, 04:05:45 AM
Quote from: AgentX_003 on January 27, 2010, 03:06:30 AM
Quote from: Cronky on January 26, 2010, 08:35:59 PM
Quote from: scope2005 on January 26, 2010, 12:03:50 AM
After years and years of playing SCCT on the PC, I eventually invested in SCCT on the xbox as it was quite cheap on the xbox live marketplace and I had a bit of spare cash...
I was pretty much the opposite of your story. Avid player of the Xbox version of SCCT, and just recently bought the PC version in hopes that there would be players still.
yes there is still players, its booming on the weekends about 70-80 people.
weekdays , it is like my time which is Eastern 1pm - 9pm its booming , but dies around 10 o clock and but its not a prob for me cause i just xfire cause i know alot of peeps to get games happening.
But I look forward to killing you soon :D
Some kind of Omen right there, cause that was also your 666th post.
...I have baaaad feelings about going online now ;)
Never realized that till you pointed it out , xD well not anymore DEMONS BE GONE !,annd my challenge still stands ,
QuoteI thought the Xbox version was pretty well balanced on the movement sensitivity. Granted years between playing Xbox and now the PC version, so my abilities at playing spy are lessened by a lot. Added in with Lag from people on the other side of the world. Playing as a Merc is just too easy on PC, and Spy is forced to be aggressive to win in any encounter to the death. Since turning around takes no time at all. Yes the Xbox had the 180 quick turn, but that was an option and still took time. Whereas turning on the PC version takes no time at all.
I agree that playing merc on the PC is much 'easier' than spy, but there are better ways to balance a game than gimping controls to the point of frustrating players familiar with FPS games on the PC.
There are a number of things that can be done to weaken the mercs, including nerfing quick sniping (as has been discussed), nerfing the bullcharge, nerfing the ability to see spies in special visions when they aren't doing an act that should be seen in those visions (this is actually being done), nerfing camnet (also will probably be done), fixing EAX (being done), and re-evaluating the amount of equipment that should be available to the mercs (probably will be done during beta). All this will have significant effects on balance without making the mercs control like old men.
The slow turning on the Xbox will just allow PC players to circle around mercs and grab them because they can't turn fast enough. That would be very imbalanced and very gay.
I too agree that the console controls shouldn't be brought to the PC.
It's too one sided on how it would be perceived. Since nobody who's ever played an FPS on a computer would just Live with sluggish controls.
All those changes you mentioned too are sure to be fixed up, and do indeed balance out the sides more evenly then changing gameplay so drastically.
My point I was just trying to get across which may have been lost somewhere in the wall of text is that on the Xbox, the Mercs felt right. Rather than feeling like every other shooter on the market, sluggish aiming for consoles made that side of the game into a real character. Made you feel like you were slow, but packed power. That each move was a calculated risk instead of just a twitch movement.
Which in the end made the Spies stand out more in comparison as the Non-lethal, yet agile opposition.
Both Xbox and PC had their Pros and Cons, but seeing as I first played the Xbox version. I've become accustomed to the way the game was played in that way. Coming up with rationals as to why everything should be as it is in its favor.