I have uploaded 20 Splinter Cell Chaos Theory Versus Maps for everyone to download on filefront. These can be used for personal use, online gaming, or for the development of Project Stealth. Note that most files come in folders including static meshes, etc. which need to be placed in their proper place before the map will work. I have included all download maps except Mr. Mic's Map Pack and the Hard Jumps. I hope you enjoy these! Link: http://www.filefront.com/user/CurdyMilk (http://www.filefront.com/user/CurdyMilk)
All maps included:
1. Artillery Warehouse
2. Base Secret
3. Cargoship
4. Chemical Industries
5. Clarity Soft Inc.
6. Die Turnhalle
7. Dock
8. Eden
9. Heliport
10. Hotel 57
11. HQ Zodiak
12. Island
13. Minen Gefarth
14. Outpost
15. Red Tower
16. Shadow Moses
17. State Union
18. Station Orbitale
19. Stockhouse
20. Sublabs
These are the awkard/bug/glitch maps, but they are still playable:
Artillery Warehouse (lags in one area)
Cargoship (only in the initial stage when you are on the mini-boat)
Die Turnhalle (one ladder cannot be climbed)
Island (picture does not show up before launch)
Minen Gefarth (mines outside, and only 1 way into the building from up top by the disk return)
Red Tower (can get trapped in one area)
These are the only problems that I can remember... The rest of the maps seem fine.
I strongly recommend the following:
base secret, cargoship, chemical industries (huge), clarity soft (huge), dock, eden (huge), heliport, outpost (huge and underground secret), shadow moses, state union, and sublabs
Quote from: CurdyMilk on February 21, 2010, 03:41:37 AM
These are the awkard/bug/glitch maps, but they are still playable:
Artillery Warehouse (lags in one area)
Cargoship (only in the initial stage when you are on the mini-boat)
Die Turnhalle (one ladder cannot be climbed)
Island (picture does not show up before launch)
Minen Gefarth (mines outside, and only 1 way into the building from up top by the disk return)
Red Tower (can get trapped in one area)
These are the only problems that I can remember... The rest of the maps seem fine.
I strongly recommend the following:
base secret, cargoship, chemical industries (huge), clarity soft (huge), dock, eden (huge), heliport, outpost (huge and underground secret), shadow moses, state union, and sublabs
(also the normal polar base and steel squat maps that everybody knows)
Nice but at the same time, Polarbase and steel squat cannot be used due to intellectual property infringement.
Quote from: AgentX_003 on February 21, 2010, 04:09:55 AM
Quote from: CurdyMilk on February 21, 2010, 03:41:37 AM
These are the awkard/bug/glitch maps, but they are still playable:
Artillery Warehouse (lags in one area)
Cargoship (only in the initial stage when you are on the mini-boat)
Die Turnhalle (one ladder cannot be climbed)
Island (picture does not show up before launch)
Minen Gefarth (mines outside, and only 1 way into the building from up top by the disk return)
Red Tower (can get trapped in one area)
These are the only problems that I can remember... The rest of the maps seem fine.
I strongly recommend the following:
base secret, cargoship, chemical industries (huge), clarity soft (huge), dock, eden (huge), heliport, outpost (huge and underground secret), shadow moses, state union, and sublabs
(also the normal polar base and steel squat maps that everybody knows)
Nice but at the same time, Polarbase and steel squat cannot be used due to intellectual property infringement.
Sorry about those. I did not review all of them individually. O well, those maps can be found elsewhere anyway. I deleted them from the list. Thanks for the input.
Thanks Curdy, would you have any idea who made these maps? You say we can use them for anything, but as long as someone else made them we can't.
Quote from: LennardF1989 on February 21, 2010, 12:04:13 PM
Thanks Curdy, would you have any idea who made these maps? You say we can use them for anything, but as long as someone else made them we can't.
No problem. O yeah as far as legal rights goes...hmm...I am not certain who made any of these maps really. I found them on splintercellonline.net when the site was up and running well years ago, and I did not bother to record who made the maps. Some of them have the nickname of the creator in the corner of the display picture, but that is all I really know. If you could somehow figure out who made it through that nickname and contact them somehow... and maybe someone on the forum has made some of these and can take responsibility. I know that tigaer has connections to state union, so you could talk to him about using that one. My best guess is that a couple of these came from Zedblade, but I am not sure. Couldn't you just take these maps to make minor adjustments with the layouts, bugs, and update the graphics to call it an original map? If I can remember right, Lakehouse started out as clubhouse and has become your own map (although you have put in a lot more work to make it different). Hopefully there is a way to just make minor adjustments and make some of these work.
IMO the resemblances of Lakehouse to Clubhouse are pretty small. The bigger picture is somewhat the same, but we added a lot of different things (Theater and Dining Hall each have another level/storey) and many, if not all, tactics will have to change in pretty big ways.
Quote from: LennardF1989 on February 21, 2010, 12:04:13 PM
Thanks Curdy, would you have any idea who made these maps? You say we can use them for anything, but as long as someone else made them we can't.
Yes, you can. They put it on the internet for free, it's fair game. You just can't use them to make money unless you get permission.
I would like to see zioplex in PS.
Spekkio, you're wrong. It's their IP, we can't use it.
Yeah, I am 90% confident you cannot find most of these maps anywhere else online. You could possibly find Clarity Soft, but that would probably be the only one. I agree with Spekkio in that how are you violating any legal rights when:
1. the maker is either already on the forum or will never find out about this game
2. why would the person care anyway since it is only a person, not a company?
3. you are not trying to make a profit from his map
4. you will be updating graphics and making small modifications to make it your own
And if you add some of Mr. Mic's maps (like he mentioned Zioplex), we could already have healthy stack of maps to play before even making your own maps from scratch.
Quote from: CurdyMilk on February 21, 2010, 10:16:03 PM
4. you will be updating graphics and making huge modifications to make it playable
fixed
Therefore, you can make maps that aren't a "remake of" but "a map inspired by".
There, easy enough, isn't it?
Quote from: CurdyMilk on February 21, 2010, 10:16:03 PM
2. why would the person care anyway since it is only a person, not a company?
That sounds like: We are bigger than you, so shut up.
You simply can't do that, how would you feel if Ubisoft would take your map and call it their own, potentially sell it and you don't get a dime for it?
It actually happened with a level of EpicJohn, Epic copied one of his maps (HEAVILY inspired) and it became quite an affair.
Quote from: LennardF1989 on February 22, 2010, 01:16:10 AM
Quote from: CurdyMilk on February 21, 2010, 10:16:03 PM
2. why would the person care anyway since it is only a person, not a company?
That sounds like: We are bigger than you, so shut up.
You simply can't do that, how would you feel if Ubisoft would take your map and call it their own, potentially sell it and you don't get a dime for it?
It actually happened with a level of EpicJohn, Epic copied one of his maps (HEAVILY inspired) and it became quite an affair.
I agree with what you say, but you are getting away from the point I was trying to make: He made the map individually without any goals for a profit, and you are using the map without any profit either. Therefore, nobody is gaining/losing money or anything from any of this, which is the primary issue with this. Am I correct?
Curdy, most of what you say is irrelevant.
The relevant part is that whoever made these maps released them to a community for free; ergo, they are fair game as long as you don't use them to make a profit of your own.
If you want to charge money for PS, then you need their permission or need to pay them for it.
Using an updated version of Zioplex and Oilrig wouldn't be a bad start to the game.
Quote from: Spekkio on February 22, 2010, 02:00:50 AM
Curdy, most of what you say is irrelevant.
The relevant part is that whoever made these maps released them to a community for free; ergo, they are fair game as long as you don't use them to make a profit of your own.
If you want to charge money for PS, then you need their permission or need to pay them for it.
Using an updated version of Zioplex and Oilrig wouldn't be a bad start to the game.
Ok Ok. I meant that too and agree. Well, if the "free" maps don't work out, then they don't work out. I understand that you want to take extra precaution with the legal rights. It was just a thought. Maybe they will become handy sometime if you find the creator (such as State Union that tigaer mentioned). At least they could be used for ideas or just for personal fun. I also think an updated map pack would be good.
Yea, I didn't see your second post on the matter. You hit the nail on the head: as long as no money is involved, it really doesn't matter.
Quote from: Spekkio on February 22, 2010, 02:57:35 AM
Yea, I didn't see your second post on the matter. You hit the nail on the head: as long as no money is involved, it really doesn't matter.
It does matter, as long as the creator didn't put a license on it, it doesn't matter wheter the map was on the internet for free or for pay, we simply can't use it in a real game without explicit permission. That is the authorship-law we all fall under. Unless they transfer authorship to us, or give us written conscent, using a map is illegal. Besides that we don't have the manpower to make "inspired by" maps.
Now, the ones made by Element and Zedblade in the UMP package are easy to talk about, but we really need the names of the authors of the other ones before even attempting to port them.
As far as PS is concerned, you could make a replica of any of those maps and call it your own. You could even make a profit off of it. You aren't using these maps for CT, they are for a completely different game. Change a few things, and it would only resemble the maps...it's yours. Different game goes a long way when things are neither licensed or copywritten in any way.
Morally, it would be shitty... But you could get away with it.
Many people think you have to file something to get 'copyright'. You don't file anything. The code I wrote for the website? Its copyright is mine. You own what you make. We didn't make those maps, so we don't own it. If you don't own it, you can't use it. Unless there's a license with it that gives you that right. Notice that there's nothing money-related there? Legality has nothing to do with whether it's free or not.
Quote from: frvge on February 22, 2010, 04:11:09 PM
Many people think you have to file something to get 'copyright'. You don't file anything. The code I wrote for the website? Its copyright is mine. You own what you make. We didn't make those maps, so we don't own it. If you don't own it, you can't use it. Unless there's a license with it that gives you that right. Notice that there's nothing money-related there? Legality has nothing to do with whether it's free or not.
I could take your code, change a little bit of it and pose it as my own and make people pay for advertisement space on it. Then what do you do? What legal action can you take against me?
Just like these maps. Change the smallest things and it can become yours. Happens all the time in music....take a riff, expound upon it and BAM $$$$$$.
Let's just put aside the fact that it could be done and say that it won't be done. It would be a lot easier and more exciting to design new maps, instead of taking somebody else's old design and calling it our own.
Quote from: tigaer on February 22, 2010, 09:59:40 PM
Let's just put aside the fact that it could be done and say that it won't be done. It would be a lot easier and more exciting to design new maps, instead of taking somebody else's old design and calling it our own.
Is another good point of view. So I'd like to leave it at this.
Quote from: tigaer on February 22, 2010, 09:59:40 PM
Let's just put aside the fact that it could be done and say that it won't be done. It would be a lot easier and more exciting to design new maps, instead of taking somebody else's old design and calling it our own.
IMO if you openly say that it's a remake, and the person hits you up and disaggrees with you porting it, then you shouldn't. However I doubt anyone here wouldn't like their name in the credit roll of PS.
Quote from: tigaer on February 22, 2010, 09:59:40 PM
It would be a lot easier and more exciting to design new maps.
More exciting? Yes.
Easier? I could argue with that.
Quality is better than quantity, but little quantity is not great either. At this rate I can see 2 maybe 3 maps coming out of this game from scratch (which is understandable considering the lack of man power present) unless a) you find more map makers, b) more are made after release, or c) you use the map pack maps. I just thought some variety with these could spice it up a bit. But the point is that you are not going to do so.
The court has adjourned!
Anyways...
Leonard have the maps you have downloaded so far been working? Do you have any thoughts/impressions up to this point? It looks like you have downloaded the first three, but some of the best ones are yet to come. :)
Quote from: frvge on February 22, 2010, 04:11:09 PM
Many people think you have to file something to get 'copyright'. You don't file anything. The code I wrote for the website? Its copyright is mine. You own what you make. We didn't make those maps, so we don't own it. If you don't own it, you can't use it. Unless there's a license with it that gives you that right. Notice that there's nothing money-related there? Legality has nothing to do with whether it's free or not.
No one said anything about taking credit for someone else's work. By all means, I agree that you should credit the map makers where applicable. But that is irrelevant to copyright, and very relevant to plagiarism. You do not need to site authors or sources to invoke fair use.
While you are correct that there is no active process for a copyright, when a person releases a product for free use, such as a custom map that is downloadable from public free-ware websites, there is an implicit permission granted to use that person's work. The term is called "fair use." You only go into infringement territory if you attempt to attempt to make a profit from it.
A parallel can be drawn from a website owner who came under fire for using someone else's photos:
Quote from: WikipediaOn appeal, the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals found in favor of the defendant. In reaching its decision, the court utilized the above-mentioned four-factor analysis. First, it found the purpose of creating the thumbnail images as previews to be sufficiently transformative, noting that they were not meant to be viewed at high resolution like the original artwork was. Second, the fact that the photographs had already been published diminished the significance of their nature as creative works. Third, although normally making a "full" replication of a copyrighted work may appear to violate copyright, here it was found to be reasonable and necessary in light of the intended use. Lastly, the court found that the market for the original photographs would not be substantially diminished by the creation of the thumbnails.
How does this relate to maps?
1) the purpose of porting the maps would be sufficiently transformative, as the new Kismet engine alone would add new depths of gameplay not previously seen. The maps would also presumably get significant graphics updates.
2) The fact that the maps are already published and available for free deminish the significance of their nature as creative works
3) Using these maps in their entirety is reasonable and necessary in light of intended use
4) The market for these maps would not be substantially diminished if they were used in PS.
In short: stop getting your panties in a bunch over nothing. If we applied your understanding of copyright, everyone's avatars in this thread are in violation of it.
QuoteIt would be a lot easier and more exciting to design new maps, instead of taking somebody else's old design and calling it our own.
More exciting yes, easier? No. Most of the custom maps listed suck anyway, so it doesn't really matter...but porting the best 2-3 to get a good basis for beta testing wouldn't be a bad idea, and certainly would be easier than making everything from scratch.
QuoteI could take your code, change a little bit of it and pose it as my own and make people pay for advertisement space on it. Then what do you do? What legal action can you take against me?
While you are correct that the process is perfectly legal, anyone can levy legal action against you for it. It is incumbent upon the defendent to prove fair use, not the other way around. While the case would presumably be thrown out, the resulting legal fees would be punishment enough. This is how bigger companies who hire full-time lawyers just for themselves can push around little guys with the mere threat of legal action.
In the case of these maps, though, I highly doubt a upper teens/lower 20 something is going to have enough money to hire a lawyer and want to take the gambit of actually winning a shaky case over maps he made 4-6 years ago.
Here you have most of the maps ever released to the public: http://kll.c-station.net/index.php?site=files&cat=1.
Quote from: YaYz0r on February 24, 2010, 10:28:09 PM
Here you have most of the maps ever released to the public: http://kll.c-station.net/index.php?site=files&cat=1.
Woah, I guess the other 10% of my prediction was right. I had never seen this site before probably because it is German or some European language. It does not have all the maps, such as Station Orbitale or Die Turnhalle, but it has almost all. Yayz0r is there any way to know who made any of those maps? If so, could we get a hold of them for permission to use them? I see two AIM accounts on there but that is the only contact information I can see.
Things fall apart though if any of the maps use assets from the original CT maps. Users may have made the maps, but if UBI finds us using a single asset authored by UBI in PS we are toast.
If fans of PS make their own maps or port them from ANY game, we cannot stop it from being released to the public. We just cannot "officially" release it because of copyright violations.
My suggestions to the fan base that want to see a lot of cool maps for PS is to take maps suggested in these threads and port them to the Unreal Editor. It is just an older version of the same engine. We would be happy to answer any basic questions like scale and proportions needed to fit the characters. We are using the exact same scale as CT, for this very reason. Anyone that wants make a map for PS will be able to play test it in CT.
Probably the best way to get official Dev status on PS is start with that.
QuoteThings fall apart though if any of the maps use assets from the original CT maps. Users may have made the maps, but if UBI finds us using a single asset authored by UBI in PS we are toast.
That's not true. That's analogous to Weird Al Yankovich using the exact same melody and beat to parady songs, but changing the lyrics. It is not copyright infringement to take parts of someone else's ideas and morph them into your own.
He means that if we port maps and the staticmeshes in them and one happens to be made by Ubisoft we are toast.
Besides, Weird Al asks permission for all of his parodies. Sometimes it's denied. He can afford to be in a lawsuit, we can't.
Quote from: LennardF1989 on February 27, 2010, 03:55:41 PM
He means that if we port maps and the staticmeshes in them and one happens to be made by Ubisoft we are toast.
True, but isn't there a way to know if the staticmesh is made by ubi or not? All you would really have to do is compare the static meshes in the map to the meshes in the ubi maps and see. If one or two are the same, then just change one or two. If none are the same, then you are in luck!
In the end, we're not risking it. If you want to do it with UDK, fine.
Quote from: frvge on February 27, 2010, 04:00:37 PM
Besides, Weird Al asks permission for all of his parodies. Sometimes it's denied. He can afford to be in a lawsuit, we can't.
No, he doesn't. He got actually got sued and won.
I can understand that all Ubi has to do is threaten you to make you guys give in, since you don't have the $$$, but you're not violating the law by copying static meshes.
Quote from: Spekkio on February 27, 2010, 11:13:08 PM
but you're not violating the law by copying static meshes.
Bullshit. It's copyright infringement (or whatever it's called).
Quote from: Opioid on February 27, 2010, 11:48:55 PM
Quote from: Spekkio on February 27, 2010, 11:13:08 PM
but you're not violating the law by copying static meshes.
Bullshit. It's copyright infringement (or whatever it's called).
The static meshes were made available to the public to create their own maps. Since PS is a non profit game, there is no copyright if they use the same static meshes. At the sane time they would be redone for the new engine they're using, making them original static meshes to PS and UDK. No copyright.
What is it with you people, anything (no really ANYTHING) you take from an other game and put in your own, no matter if it's free or for cash, is copyright infridgement WITHOUT an official statement claiming you are free to use it. The same counts for taking a melody and putting it in your own song, or pulling a bookreport of the internet and telling your teacher it's yours. It's all illegal!
Now please stop it, if you want those maps make them yourself because we can't stop you from doing that. We will only make new maps or maps we have the ownership off.
And we don't exclude ever making profit of PS, if we sell merchendise we are not a non-profit game anymore as that requires us to get a commercial license. Now please go back to discussing what this topic was about in the first place, gees, speaking of excagerating.
You're wrong. I understand your emotional sentiment from a game developer stance, and I understand your [unreasonable] fear of being sued and not having the money to put up a fight, but the fact of the matter is that everything is fair game. The courts have ruled consistently this way when it comes to other types of media. While the amount of video game specific cases are lacking, the concept is the same: Unless you are virtually copying the item verbatim (eg, putting your copy of CT on another DVD and giving it to someone or selling it), then you aren't committing copyright infringement.
If Weird Al can use someone else's beats for a song and charge money, you can use someone else's static meshes for a map in a game, regardless of whether or not you choose to charge money for it.
EDIT: And honestly, ya'll's stance on the issue is rather contradictory. You have a spy with the same sticky shocker as CT/PT, with the same gadgets and abilities. Same goes for the merc. But god forbid you copy a static mesh for maps...then that's over the line. Give me a fucking break and get over yourselves. If what you were doing was copyright infringement, you crossed the line a long fucking time ago. Calling a sticky cam by some other gay name doesn't change the law in your favor.
As Lennard said, on topic... and the answer is: DIY, we're not going to do it.
Quote from: frvge on February 28, 2010, 01:49:53 AM
As Lennard said, on topic... and the answer is: DIY, we're not going to do it.
We? What the fuck do you do for this game? You just own the website...AFAIK, you have nothing to do with the actual programming or map making, so fuck off.
Quote from: Spekkio on February 28, 2010, 01:59:59 AM
Quote from: frvge on February 28, 2010, 01:49:53 AM
As Lennard said, on topic... and the answer is: DIY, we're not going to do it.
We? What the fuck do you do for this game? You just own the website...AFAIK, you have nothing to do with the actual programming or map making, so fuck off.
Spek, less emotions, please.
Honestly, I'd stay by Spek's side on this one, however, imo, even if you ported the maps as they were, you wouldn't be wanting to play them (graphics), and you'd have to make some serious changes because of the dynamic climbing system.
Therefore, you could by all legal means use a layout of a map (see how like 95% of all popular sites have the exact same layout, just different colours and shapes?).
That's my two cents.
I'm the self-claimed legal advisor too. Been following the legal blogs on copyright for years and got some classes about it. Also attended extra seminar on digital law. We're talking Dutch law, which has less chance of being sued because the cost of going to court are relatively high here, but still a company would outclass us money-wise: main reason we're not taking chances that we're not certain we can win.
Can we go on-topic now? Pleeaaaassseee?
Yeah guys, it really isn't worth throwing a temper tantrum or having a hissy fit even though I agree. The lesson to be learned is if you want it done, do it yourself. We have established this a long time ago. I feel like it wasn't even worth posting these maps because it has created more problems than solutions. They were initially intended for Leonard due to a special request, but now the whole tide has turned into a massive court case that nobody will ever win. Do it yourself or don't complain. So...does anybody have anything to say about the downloadable maps? Some of them have not been downloaded yet. Chemical Industries, Eden, Heliport, and Outpost are all good maps that nobody has touched.
QuoteChemical Industries, Eden, Heliport, and Outpost are all shitty maps that nobody has touched.
Fixed.
As for the emotion, sorry...it's just frustrating to see an entire game built upon someone else's pre-existing framework, but then people get their panties in a bunch about copyright over porting user-made maps. Give me a break.
Quote from: Spekkio on February 28, 2010, 01:52:27 PM
QuoteChemical Industries, Eden, Heliport, and Outpost are all shitty maps that nobody has touched.
Fixed.
As for the emotion, sorry...it's just frustrating to see an entire game built upon someone else's pre-existing framework, but then people get their panties in a bunch about copyright over porting user-made maps. Give me a break.
That's not completely true, yes it shows similarities, but it will feel, look and play completely different, I think it will even be pretty unlikely that "vets" remain "vets" in PS right from the start, a lot of new things will have to be learned and then I don't mean only the maps.
Also note that this game is made by people with a passion for stealth games and not some "hey let's try that out"-dudes. We go pretty far to get everything just right.
Same could be said for the maps. The game's on a new engine, so you have to build all the elements from scratch anyway. Additionally, all of the user-made maps except those made by people directly involved with the making of PS need alterations to make them playable anyway.
First read the terms of agreement for CT, and then tell me its legal for us to rip any of the assets from Versus and use in our own game. If they say its OK, then we can do it, if its not mentioned at all, then it is illegal.
Quote from: CurdyMilk on February 27, 2010, 04:23:11 PM
Quote from: LennardF1989 on February 27, 2010, 03:55:41 PM
He means that if we port maps and the staticmeshes in them and one happens to be made by Ubisoft we are toast.
True, but isn't there a way to know if the staticmesh is made by ubi or not? All you would really have to do is compare the static meshes in the map to the meshes in the ubi maps and see. If one or two are the same, then just change one or two. If none are the same, then you are in luck!
technically, yes....and if someone was anal retentive they could. You would have to be an industry professional to know how (comparing point order of geometry, UV layouts, and textures)
The trick to using assets from other projects, like in game studios that have done several games, is that you have to make sure things look different enough to pass scrutiny. In regards to CT, its going to be textures that are most recognizable.
As far as actually ripping assets from CT, it is certainly possible. I have ripped the assets from DA with 3d ripper just to have a look at the assets for educational purposes.
Ripping assets and code is done all the time in the industry for educational purposes. Example is a game studio wants a special FX in their game that is copied from another game. The FX probably cant be copywritten, but the code is.
A summary: an idea can be copied, but not the implementation. Ergo: we base ourselves on SAM and Clubhouse, but the implementation is done from scratch and there's plenty of changes to warrant it being 'ours'. What 'enough changes' is depends on the subject and differs on a case-by-case base.
Ripping for personal educational purposes falls under fair-use (the US form doesn't exist in Dutch law, ours mostly covers citation/parody but AFAIK jurisprudence seems to be fairly close to the US 'fair-use' law). However, you can't use the exactly the same implementation in your own project. A derivation is fine of course, as long as it differs enough, or can't be done in another way (mostly math in code).
Quote from: goodkebab on February 28, 2010, 11:34:52 PM
First read the terms of agreement for CT, and then tell me its legal for us to rip any of the assets from Versus and use in our own game. If they say its OK, then we can do it, if its not mentioned at all, then it is illegal.
It is legal, and it has nothing to do with permission. Permission can waive copyright law in some cases, but the converse is not true: lack of permission or even explicit protest does not make certain acts illegal. I will again point you to the case of Weird Al Yankovic copying Coolio's music for a song parody without his permission, when 2-Live Crew made a Parody of "Oh, Pretty Woman" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campbell_v._Acuff-Rose_Music,_Inc.), or someone using someone else's .jpeg in one of those "motivational posters" without permission. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelly_v._Arriba_Soft_Corporation) Did you get permission from the shooter of that kebab pic to use it as an avatar? No, nor are you legally required to do so. I recommend that you and frvge read more on cases surrounding copyright. Copyright usually extends to copying something almost entirely in its existing form, and for good reason. If judges started to rule in favor of not being able to copy anything at all from a product (eg: a color screen on a mobile phone), there would be no room for innovation and the first person to invent something would have an automatic monopoly on the technology. ID software would be the only developer legally allowed to make FPS games with a shotgun, and Nintendo would be the only developer allowed to make sidescroller platform games in which the character can jump.
Although sometimes copyright law is silly -- such as the fact that it's illegal for me to transfer my legally purchased DVD copy of SCCT entirely onto my hard drive or onto another DVD, even if I'm the only person to ever use it. But using aspects from the product -- even directly and unmodified -- to create your own product is not copyright infringement.
QuoteRipping for personal educational purposes falls under fair-use
I agree, but fair use is not limited to educational purposes.
Also, push come to shove, I sincerely doubt that judges will fail to see through the smoke and mirrors show if you get sued for copyright. Even though you're building the graphics from scratch and renaming the gadgets, it will be fairly easy for any reasonable person to see the extreme similarities of PS to Ubisoft's games. Aesthetic updates aren't going to save you from that fact, but it's somewhat humorous that you think that it will.
It still amazes me that you cannot see the inconsistency in your argument that copying an entire game structure is OK, but copying a map layout isn't.
USA law != Dutch law. We don't parody, Weird Al does. Parody falls under US fair-use, so Weird Al doesn't even have to ask. He's just being nice. We're not parodying another SAM game.
And you speak like you only see graphical name changes. The behaviour of our gadgets is completely coded from scratch, just like the character system, the lobby system, the weapon system, the camera system, and everything else. Currently 67 classes from scratch. It's not a simple change of some string-variable.
In the case of photos and pictures and so on, there's the transformative norm. An avatar is so lowered in quality from an original photo that it can be seen as a different subject. Taking a screenshot from a 3D model is also transformative. Making a photo of a painting is less certain. Encoding a high-quality WAV to a high-quality MP3 is AFAIK not transformative enough. Encoding to some low-quality radio quality is.
It depends on a lot of things. We think we're crossing the grey border if we would (exactly) copy a map/models from people without consent. For the gazillionth time: this is our decision. Don't like our stance? Open up UDK and port it yourself. We're not doing it.
Now get on topic on the maps. Which things/themes/gameplay decisions would you like to see in PS maps?
PS: this is the final word on the copyright thing. Don't make me temp-lock this, that makes me sad. Yes, I know it sucks that an admin has the final word. Maybe you'll have it next time, maybe not.
Quote from: frvgeUSA law != Dutch law. We don't parody, Weird Al does. Parody falls under US fair-use, so Weird Al doesn't even have to ask. He's just being nice. We're not parodying another SAM game.
Yea? What makes this fall under Dutch law? Firstly, the maker of CT is French, so you'd be better off being concerned about international law, since that's what they'd pursue you under. Secondly, the map makers aren't all Dutch, so you'd be better off being concerned about international law there, too. You make a fine legal representative when you can't even figure out which law you fall under.
Parody was just an example, but not the only one in which a person does not have to ask for permission to copy an aspect of someone else's work. Realistically, there is not a single corporate entity that can benefit from someone else copying any aspect of their products, so the notion that they freely give permission for it is absurd. To put it simply, copyright infringement has very little to do with permission.
QuoteAnd you speak like you only see graphical name changes. The behaviour of our gadgets is completely coded from scratch, just like the character system, the lobby system, the weapon system, the camera system, and everything else. Currently 67 classes from scratch. It's not a simple change of some string-variable.
Congratulations. It'd still be easy for anyone to prove that the code, graphics, etc. are all blatantly aimed toward ripping someone else's work. The thing is, my contention is that it's irrelevant, since it's not illegal anyway.
"Oh, no, this book is my own work...I used my own ink, paper, and writing tools to make it myself. I know that 95% of the words are the same as this other book by a different author, but I changed the names of some of the characters and made the ending a little less sad so it's totally different now!"
QuoteIn the case of photos and pictures and so on, there's the transformative norm.
There is, but that is one of 4 criteria used to judge if a work is copyright infringement. Additionally, I noted two pages ago that transferring a map from CT to UDK is going to be transformative in nature.
To get back on topic:
What I'd like to see in maps: No sabotage objectives, and a return to the neutralization/extraction choice rather than trying to do it all at once.
Quote from: LennardF1989 on February 22, 2010, 11:46:24 AM
Quote from: Spekkio on February 22, 2010, 02:57:35 AM
Yea, I didn't see your second post on the matter. You hit the nail on the head: as long as no money is involved, it really doesn't matter.
It does matter, as long as the creator didn't put a license on it, it doesn't matter wheter the map was on the internet for free or for pay, we simply can't use it in a real game without explicit permission. That is the authorship-law we all fall under. Unless they transfer authorship to us, or give us written conscent, using a map is illegal. Besides that we don't have the manpower to make "inspired by" maps.
Now, the ones made by Element and Zedblade in the UMP package are easy to talk about, but we really need the names of the authors of the other ones before even attempting to port them.
Hey lennard, did u get written consent from ubisoft to start creating a mod for ut3 HEAVILY INSPIRED IN A COPYRIGHTED GAME?
did u guys get written consent to copy the gadgets and rename them "Sticky cam" is now "adhesible camera"
stop being so fuckin douchy about this man... lol its just a god damn lost map u can fuckin check it out and see if its good or not at least and if it is then it might inspire you and there is nothing wrong with being inspired from others' work just as it happened with this whole fuckin mod in the first place .
You guys are getting all worked up over remaking OLD maps? Come on. I'd rather see new maps I've never played on, instead of playing the same maps I've been playing for years just remodeled. This argument is pointless and you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.
Quote from: tigaer on March 01, 2010, 07:51:25 AM
You guys are getting all worked up over remaking OLD maps? Come on. I'd rather see new maps I've never played on, instead of playing the same maps I've been playing for years just remodeled. This argument is pointless and you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.
I think that's the point. Less so about the Maps, but rather where the line is drawn on this Issue. While similarities are easily spotted, inspiration is heavily coming from another entity, and gameplay is basically the same; where do you stop?
They have put a halt at the OFFICIAL (Meaning the PS Staff making it) release of previous SCCT maps, whether fan made or Ubisoft's.
When it comes to what we will get to play when we do finally get to play though... what maps will be have? A map that is an updated version of Club House from SCCT. Added area's/changed visuals aside you can see what it is.
It's easier to recreate a map somebody has made, rather than make a new map from scratch. Again, example being Club House.
NOW for on Topic.
Unlike Spekkio, I liked Sabotage... BUT PT Sabotage. I know it was buggy as all hell, but it was also fun for the simple fact that it was like playing Hide and Go Seek with a Modem. With PS having Updates (I assume) the "Bugged Spots" could be patched out.
Plus my favorite SCCT map was Deftec. Something about the level being PRETTY Compacted in a sense. Each area was Split, but that didn't mean that the level was Small. The objective Areas being quite open with MANY ways to get to each objective. Don't really know how to explain it, but it was a great map in my mind. To put it differently... It's like the Smart Car of Levels; Compacted and tiny, but when looking inside it is bigger than first expectations.
Also Picking One Objective like Spekkio said. Doing all 3 at once ruins variety... as backwards as that sounds. The options to perhaps have a "Story Mode" AND the ability to pick one of the 3 types would be good.
Quote from: tigaer on March 01, 2010, 07:51:25 AM
You guys are getting all worked up over remaking OLD maps? Come on. I'd rather see new maps I've never played on, instead of playing the same maps I've been playing for years just remodeled. This argument is pointless and you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.
Nah, I'm getting worked up over what Roberto said. It's perfectly okay to copy gadgets from Ubisoft, but maps are a big no no somehow.
Quote
For the gazillionth time: this is our decision. Don't like our stance? Open up UDK and port it yourself. We're not doing it.
PS: this is the final word on the copyright thing. Don't make me temp-lock this, that makes me sad. Yes, I know it sucks that an admin has the final word. Maybe you'll have it next time, maybe not.
Temp-locked for consistency. Spekkio, feel free to contact me on xfire or PM. I'm available 16 hours per day. I'll tell you in more detail why I think you're wrong.
Unlocked. Silly me. Thought it was in another forum. My bad. I already had my punishment by having a 5-10 sec blackout today. Luckily in the hospital, but still... anyway, I still prefer if we can leave the copyright stuff and stay on the maps-part.
Quote from: CurdyMilk on February 24, 2010, 11:15:42 PM
Quote from: YaYz0r on February 24, 2010, 10:28:09 PM
Here you have most of the maps ever released to the public: http://kll.c-station.net/index.php?site=files&cat=1.
Woah, I guess the other 10% of my prediction was right. I had never seen this site before probably because it is German or some European language. It does not have all the maps, such as Station Orbitale or Die Turnhalle, but it has almost all. Yayz0r is there any way to know who made any of those maps? If so, could we get a hold of them for permission to use them? I see two AIM accounts on there but that is the only contact information I can see.
Well, I have got all the maps that were available on www.splintercellonline.net plus a few more that could only be found on other sites. Unfortunately, the only information I have got about the makers of the maps is what can be found in readme files, pictures and such and it sounds like you already checked those.
I should have a semi-working version of SCWorld on my server, but I don't feel the need to check it for info.
Quote from: frvge on March 01, 2010, 06:25:11 PM
Unlocked. Silly me. Thought it was in another forum. My bad. I already had my punishment by having a 5-10 sec blackout today. Luckily in the hospital, but still... anyway, I still prefer if we can leave the copyright stuff and stay on the maps-part.
Aww I hope you feel better :P
Quote from: YaYz0r on March 01, 2010, 06:51:42 PM
Quote from: CurdyMilk on February 24, 2010, 11:15:42 PM
Quote from: YaYz0r on February 24, 2010, 10:28:09 PM
Here you have most of the maps ever released to the public: http://kll.c-station.net/index.php?site=files&cat=1.
Woah, I guess the other 10% of my prediction was right. I had never seen this site before probably because it is German or some European language. It does not have all the maps, such as Station Orbitale or Die Turnhalle, but it has almost all. Yayz0r is there any way to know who made any of those maps? If so, could we get a hold of them for permission to use them?
Well, I have got all the maps that were available on www.splintercellonline.net plus a few more that could only be found on other sites. Unfortunately, the only information I have got about the makers of the maps is what can be found in readme files, pictures and such and it sounds like you already checked those.
Yeah I got a lot of maps from splintercellonline.net when it was up and running too. Some of the ones I posted were from a french website that I cannot remember anymore. I will re-check the readme files for contact information but I doubt I will find any.
Ok this is for the devs. I have reviewed the readme/info files for the downloaded maps. I have found some contact information for a few of them. If you don't believe me, download these yourself to verify this. Rather than contacting them myself, I feel as if it would be your responsibility to ask permission if you desire to use these. I will use direct quotations, and some are in other languages. Maybe some people on here can understand them. The emails are fairly obvious though. Note that I did not include any maps that we already know or the ones that did not have any information attached to them.
Eden-
[info]
Nom=Eden
Info=Eden par Carmofin ( rolfrenark@gmx.net ) . Visitez son site : www.carmofin.com . Pour que la map fonctionne, vous avez besoin des UMPs et de steel squat, cartes que vous pouvez également vous procurer sur splintercellmaps. Carmofin remercie FIN-Ravager, Defcon_5 et tout ceux qui l'ont aidé àvenir àbout de ce projet.
HQ Zodiak-
[info]
Nom=HQ ZODIAK by Red Flash (with CamNet)
Info=HQ Zodiak, no comment, bon jeux :-) Pour me contacter, une seul adresse, ixibox@gmail.com
Red Tower-
[info]
Nom=REDTOWERBETA.
Info=Voici une map créée par RED FLASH.
Base Secret-
[info]
Nom=BASE SECRETE RED FLASH
Info=Voici la map créée par RED FLASH.
Heliport-
[info]
Nom=Heliport 1.1
Info=Voici la map Heliport 1.1 créée par LIB-cobra_fr, elle représente un centre d'accueil d'helicoptères avec de nombreux objectifs et de piratage àréaliser, bien équilibrée, cette carte est trés agréable àjouer. et cette mise a jours corrige quelque bug
Island-
[info]
Nom=SCCT_PC_map_island
Info=voici une carte du genre palace réalisée par zobou et ArGuS-ClebaR
Sublabs-
[info]
Nom=SubLabs
Info=SubLabs par Red_Son ( red_october@gmx.de ). Visitez http://www.RainbowSix.org et http://www.Vth-Freedom.net. La carte et ses données ne doivent pas être modifiées ou utilisées sans l'autorisation écrite de l'auteur.
Cargoship-
[info]
Nom=Cargo Ship par Vth_F_silver
Info=Vous avez besoin des maps Steel Squat et UMP Schermerhorn pour lancer la carte. Vous n'avez pas le droit d'utiliser ou de modifier la carte et ses données pour d'autres maps sans l'autorisation écrite de l'auteur.
Hotel 57-
[info]
Nom=HOTEL 57
Info= map by REVANG3R
Minen Gefarth-
[info]
Nom=Minen Gefarth
Info=Le Niveau est composé de 2 batiments distincts et de 2 parties en extérieur : un vieil immeuble désafecté et un nouveau en aménagement. Configuration requise : Installer Heliport, Steel Sqat, et Base Secret.
Station Orbitale-
[info]
Nom=Station Orbitale
Info=Station Orbitale | Version du 21/10/2006 | Map by REVANG3R
Not all of these will be useful, but the ones with direct emails could possibly work as long as the email is not extinct. Minen Gefarth and Island are super trash maps that you would not want to use anyway, but the rest have we have some hope for. And this is not intended to direct the focus back to the copying issues. It is just possibility in case you decide to consider them.
AFAIK we're not going to ask them, at least not in the near future. We're recruiting more modelers and level designers and environmental artists to create a new map.
Spekkio and I had a chat and we sorted it out. Most was a misunderstanding. In the end, most of our views are the same.
Quote from: frvge on March 02, 2010, 01:56:29 AM
AFAIK we're not going to ask them, at least not in the near future. We're recruiting more modelers and level designers and environmental artists to create a new map.
Even better yet, maybe they would like to join the team since they have experience with this map style. Ya never know...
frvge thought I was talking about copying and pasting the maps into PS exactly as-is, which I wasn't since they'd look like ass. Once he realized I was talking about recreating the graphical elements similar to what they did with the sticky cam, we saw eye-to-eye. Besides, what map couldn't use balance improvements anyway?
Quote from: Spekkio on March 02, 2010, 02:41:03 AM
frvge thought I was talking about copying and pasting the maps into PS exactly as-is, which I wasn't since they'd look like ass. Once he realized I was talking about recreating the graphical elements similar to what they did with the sticky cam, we saw eye-to-eye. Besides, what map couldn't use balance improvements anyway?
I didn't realize Frvge thought we were talking about just porting it out. That would be illegal suckers. Duh =)
You can, as long as none of the assets were created by UBI, and the original Authors get credit where it is due.
Realistically though, who is going to put their money where their mouth is and actually port the maps to Unreal 3.0? As it is, the dev team has enough on their hands.
Quote from: goodkebab on March 03, 2010, 11:09:00 AM
You can, as long as none of the assets were created by UBI, and the original Authors get credit where it is due.
Realistically though, who is going to put their money where their mouth is and actually port the maps to Unreal 3.0? As it is, the dev team has enough on their hands.
This question may have been answered before, but I'd just like a little Clarification for my own sake.
So in the end, are the actual OFFICIAL Ubisoft PT/CT Maps not possible if fan created (Meaning the PS Staff doesn't make it)? Aquarius, Deftec, Mt. Hospital, Orphanage, Station, Etc.
Like I've said many times before my favorite map was Deftec. Now straight up Porting it would be illegal as has been stated (And it would look crappy), but doing something such as what you all are doing with Club House is alright? Where you can use the same basic Layout, but change what it looks like.
My 2nd part to the question is where the line WOULD be if that was to be possible? Again I bring up your Club House map that you all have. Widely different textures and a couple extra bits, but quite the same.
Just seems to me that people that may have a want to bring back maps kind of in the same vein as you all did would need to know exactly what they would need to do to what extent to come out clean.
Cronky, here's the nuts and bolts of it:
I made a post a few pages ago about the criteria which judges use to decide if something is copyright infringement or not. Based on those, using the Ubi map layouts with updated graphics/objects from UDK would not be copyright infringement, just like modeling your own version of a sticky cam is not copyright infringement. If you pair balance updates with the graphics updates, I think that you've clearly crossed the line into transformative territory.
Basically, they don't hold a monopoly off the floor plans of their maps.
However, here's the catch: there are many cases where big corporations (ie, Ubisoft) use the threat of lawsuits to get their way, even when they are in the wrong. They do this because they have the money to afford lawyers and you don't. If Ubisoft threatened an international lawsuit for copyright infringement, no one on this board is going to have the money to hire a lawyer to fight it. On the other hand, Joe Schmo from Germany who made Die Turnhalle isn't going to do this, particularly because he'd lose.
So when it comes to porting official CT/PT maps, you have to use your own judgment here. One would think that if Ubi were going to threaten a lawsuit for the creation of PS, they'd have done so long before someone considered porting their maps. They also didn't object to user-made ports of their PT maps. Finally, CT has a very meager online player base, so it's not like you're devaluing their product, so they really have no reason financially to bother raising a fuss. On the other hand, it does carry some risk with it, as does this entire project. So while the law is on your side, you have to make the call here. If it were me, I'd say it's safe...I just don't have the time to model couches and boxes and shit myself to put them into a map.
Spekkio:
Afaik if you can't afford a lawyer you get one from the government? Not a very good one, but I think it'd be enough ::)
Criminal and tort law are two different animals in the U.S.
Quote from: Spekkio on March 03, 2010, 10:27:11 PM
Cronky, here's the nuts and bolts of it:
I made a post a few pages ago about the criteria which judges use to decide if something is copyright infringement or not. Based on those, using the Ubi map layouts with updated graphics/objects from UDK would not be copyright infringement, just like modeling your own version of a sticky cam is not copyright infringement. If you pair balance updates with the graphics updates, I think that you've clearly crossed the line into transformative territory.
Basically, they don't hold a monopoly off the floor plans of their maps.
However, here's the catch: there are many cases where big corporations (ie, Ubisoft) use the threat of lawsuits to get their way, even when they are in the wrong. They do this because they have the money to afford lawyers and you don't. If Ubisoft threatened an international lawsuit for copyright infringement, no one on this board is going to have the money to hire a lawyer to fight it. On the other hand, Joe Schmo from Germany who made Die Turnhalle isn't going to do this, particularly because he'd lose.
So when it comes to porting official CT/PT maps, you have to use your own judgment here. One would think that if Ubi were going to threaten a lawsuit for the creation of PS, they'd have done so long before someone considered porting their maps. They also didn't object to user-made ports of their PT maps. Finally, CT has a very meager online player base, so it's not like you're devaluing their product, so they really have no reason financially to bother raising a fuss. On the other hand, it does carry some risk with it, as does this entire project. So while the law is on your side, you have to make the call here. If it were me, I'd say it's safe...I just don't have the time to model couches and boxes and shit myself to put them into a map.
I get what you said, and read your post on the other page.
I was generally trying to figure out the PS Team's Line. Not to what Extent it is frowned upon or not.
Are they accepting Fan made maps of Official Ubisoft maps? Since this post mostly touched on remaking maps that were fan created to begin with.
What extent do they find themselves in the clear when remaking a map for their use? (Club House)
Lakehouse is nowhere near Club House FYI and I don't mean only in style, it's a completely different layout too. It once started a remake (RoboBlitz era), but it's now our own map.
Well, they don't seem to be doing it themselves, but it's not like PS team can realistically stop you from making them, downloading them, or playing them.
My idea was not necessarily taking ubi's maps (because I am sure we have all played them to death and gotten sick and tired of them even though they were good), but instead taking uncommon user created maps that are still decent and working with them. I would also rather have Mr. Mic's map pack in this than ubi's maps. The team could possibly remake the map pack themselves, but it appears as if the only way to remake other maps besides those is to do them yourself.
Quote from: CurdyMilk on March 03, 2010, 11:24:43 PM
My idea was not necessarily taking ubi's maps (because I am sure we have all played them to death and gotten sick and tired of them even though they were good), but instead taking uncommon user created maps that are still decent and working with them. I would also rather have Mr. Mic's map pack in this than ubi's maps. The team could possibly remake the map pack themselves, but it appears as if the only way to remake other maps besides those is to do them yourself.
This line of questioning from me was just for my personal curiosity. As much fun as other maps were, I have a special place in my mind for Deftec. If it never gets remade, I will find the time to do it even if it turns out like crap/Only is used by a few friends and I.
@Lennard
I'm just going by my first impression of the Lakehouse Teaser. While yes, when I watched it the map was entirely different; I saw the inspiration behind it. Whether that has changed drastically from your video or not is beyond me. In my eyes it is still very comparable, as I was doing while watching that video.
Club House = Lake House
Garden Room = Yacht Room
Front Desky Area = Trophy Room
(Names are just my best guess)
I'm not doubting that it will play differently than Club House did... Just that the first impression I was given for it doesn't go away just because you added a room/changed the visuals. Which means Lakehouse will always be a Club House remake.
To me at least.
There are a couple really cool entrances for spies from these maps. One is cargoship, where the spies start on a mini boat and infiltrate a giant cargoship once they land on the ship. Another is in sublabs, where the spies are traveling down a giant elevator shaft into the ocean laboratory. They get a nice view of the ocean and parts of the lab on their way down. Obviously these were not executed very well in CT and could be greatly improved, but slick entrances into the map could make things interesting. Parachuting is another option I like for landing on certain rooftops. These may take a lot of time and could not be that big of a pay off, but I wonder if there could be ways in which it would work. Say a spy is landing on a rooftop, maybe he could choose between a few entrances and his control could determine which place he lands. For the boat, maybe he could choose which side of the ship to go to. For the elevator shaft, maybe the spies could stop it on certain floors and pick where to get off. It could also be useful if the specific map layout needs to give mercs and extra 5-10 second start to set up to avoid spy rushes at certain objectives.
Quote from: Cronky on March 03, 2010, 11:35:19 PM
@Lennard
I'm just going by my first impression of the Lakehouse Teaser. While yes, when I watched it the map was entirely different; I saw the inspiration behind it. Whether that has changed drastically from your video or not is beyond me. In my eyes it is still very comparable, as I was doing while watching that video.
Club House = Lake House
Garden Room = Yacht Room
Front Desky Area = Trophy Room
(Names are just my best guess)
I'm not doubting that it will play differently than Club House did... Just that the first impression I was given for it doesn't go away just because you added a room/changed the visuals. Which means Lakehouse will always be a Club House remake.
To me at least.
Clubhouse = Lakehouse
Garden = Dock
Main Hall = Entrance\Lobby
Jacuzzi = Game Room
Steam Room = Cigar Room\Smoking Lounge
Tea = Dining Hall
Room Across from Tea (Lunch?) = Theater
Now you know ;)
And your right, Lakehouse is and has always been inspired by the layout of Clubhouse. That's something we stated since the beginning. However, the general layout is the only similarity and the map will play completely different.
Truthfully, I regret making the layout like clubhouse. When the mod first started it seemed like a good idea. By the time I realized I wanted to change the layout it was too late, the process would require way too much work.
Quote from: Zedblade on March 29, 2010, 02:22:11 PM
Clubhouse = Lakehouse
Garden = Dock
Main Hall = Entrance\Lobby
Jacuzzi = Game Room
Steam Room = Cigar Room\Smoking Lounge
Tea = Dining Hall
Room Across from Tea (Lunch?) = Theater
Now you know ;)
And your right, Lakehouse is and has always been inspired by the layout of Clubhouse. That's something we stated since the beginning. However, the general layout is the only similarity and the map will play completely different.
Truthfully, I regret making the layout like clubhouse. When the mod first started it seemed like a good idea. By the time I realized I wanted to change the layout it was too late, the process would require way too much work.
I can respect this ^^^
I know you guys don't want all your work wrote off by some person saying, "You just copied CT SvM", but giving credit where it's due is something that seems to be the only problem I had with Lennard's statement.
Quote from: LennardF1989 on March 03, 2010, 11:13:59 PM
Lakehouse is nowhere near Club House FYI and I don't mean only in style, it's a completely different layout too. It once started a remake (RoboBlitz era), but it's now our own map.
Even in there it's said that it started as a remake, confirmed by you (ZedBlade), but Lennard goes to say that it has NO connection what so ever to Clubhouse.
I didn't mean to say the map was bad in any sense, or that it wont be fun/different to play. Saying that something is copied, and saying something is inspired are two different things. Which I meant Inspired when I said Remake. (Since the word remake isn't held to the definition that it MUST be exactly the same)
It's like saying that Project Stealth is a Unique Game-Mode that hasn't been seen anywhere else. Obviously it's inspired by Ubisoft's SvM mode, but that doesn't mean it's a direct copy. Saying otherwise is just so obviously negligent of the origins. Not to say that it's something you have to Tag and make sure everyone knows, but if someone asked, you should be fine with giving the real answer.
Since I cannot post in the join us section, I will just post it here since you can download it from my files. Damian I played your Dock map. It was a decent map to joke around with friends, especially when I fell off of the submarine into the water. Haha. Anyway, I would say you should give this guy a chance on the team. Although the map was not designed to perfection, there were no major bugs or any problems. There is some potential here.
No.
Quote from: CurdyMilk on March 29, 2010, 05:57:36 AM
There are a couple really cool entrances for spies from these maps. One is cargoship, where the spies start on a mini boat and infiltrate a giant cargoship once they land on the ship. [...]
Thanks for your compliment.
If there is enough interest in a port or a new map based on the basic idea, I will be happy to give the dev team permission to use my map.
Quote from: LennardF1989 on February 22, 2010, 01:16:10 AM
Quote from: CurdyMilk on February 21, 2010, 10:16:03 PM
2. why would the person care anyway since it is only a person, not a company?
That sounds like: We are bigger than you, so shut up.
You simply can't do that, how would you feel if Ubisoft would take your map and call it their own, potentially sell it and you don't get a dime for it?
It actually happened with a level of EpicJohn, Epic copied one of his maps (HEAVILY inspired) and it became quite an affair.
Yup, it happens, still worng but technically legal, thoughi wouldn't recommend it ;).