Hey Guys, I just have recently heard of Project Stealth, and im actually surprised i never heard of it before... and also a bit upset about it, i wish i would have known about this for longer. Than i noticed that there was no Proper Suggestion Thread where ALL people can post there idears and discuss about them (or at least i havnt found one)
So Here we go: Ill make the start:
In my oppinion, SC DA and SC CT are both very good games, CT has a lot of deapth in gameplay, it is very complicated, but the maps are kept very basic, with almost no passages for spies, DA is the exact opposide: Very Simple Gameplay, but complicated maps, Now, both have there advantages, In CT you can have very impressive traps with Laser mines and other things, but in DA you can outsmart the enemy by using the vents in the map... I prefer the CT gamestyle, but what upsets me a bit about it is, it is only for 2v2, And my first suggestion is, to have both, maps for 2v2 and for 3v3 because in a team of 3, people can use totally diffrent approaches than in 2v2, in 2v2s, there are more limits in teamplay, which i think is very sad.(I guess some of you will totally flame me for this comment, but i think it is importaint that anybody can express there own oppinion) Some might prefer 2v2, some 3v3, but i know that most love the CT gameplay, so i think the best game in my oppion to have would be:
- The movement speed From DA but keeping the importaint stealth elements from CT
- complicated maps like in DA.
- Game modes from Both Titles(all CT gamemodes, but for the DA fans also a mode with wireless terminal hacking).
- Maybe some "remakes" without breaking any copyrightlaws.
- The awesome gadets from CT.
- the ability to customiseable charakters and interface.
- 2v2 AND 3v3, why having only one, if it could be possible to do both ;D
- A team that actually removes glitches, from game and "original" maps
- The first stealth game where JUMPING can save yourself from beeing grabbed... We all know how depressive it is when your about to grab somebody and the person Jumps, and you cant grab him...
Edit: I think the last point also counts as a glitch... but is woth mentioning by its own because it sometimes P%$§ED the SH§"T out of me when playing SC
But tell me about your oppinions, what do you guys think?
Quote- The movement speed From DA but keeping the importaint stealth elements from CT Naw, it encouraged rushing the mercenaries. When you go from DA to CT, sure it feels sluggish, but the movement speed alone isn't slow in Chaos
- complicated maps like in DA. That's a matter of opinion, I far prefered the maps from chaos theory (though one or two in DA did stick out for me)
- Game modes from Both Titles(all CT gamemodes, but for the DA fans also a mode with wireless terminal hacking). I don't think that'll be on the priority list any time soon, imo distance hacks were a bit lame and encouraged the hack'n'run behaviour of sprinting between terminals even to get the tiniest hack
- Maybe some "remakes" without breaking any copyrightlaws. Already being discussed
- The awesome gadets from CT. Yeah huh
- the ability to customiseable charakters and interface. Not a priority
- 2v2 AND 3v3, why having only one, if it could be possible to do both 3v3 would completely change the dynamic, it may seem cool but, when you think about it, 3 spies could easily gang-rape the mercenaries if they just picked them off
Quote from: SoN_RaVeN on March 01, 2010, 06:37:48 PM
Hey Guys, I just have recently heard of Project Stealth, and im actually surprised i never heard of it before... and also a bit upset about it, i wish i would have known about this for longer. Than i noticed that there was no Proper Suggestion Thread where ALL people can post there idears and discuss about them (or at least i havnt found one)
So Here we go: Ill make the start:
In my oppinion, SC DA and SC CT are both very good games, CT has a lot of deapth in gameplay, it is very complicated, but the maps are kept very basic, with almost no passages for spies, DA is the exact opposide: Very Simple Gameplay, but complicated maps, Now, both have there advantages, In CT you can have very impressive traps with Laser mines and other things, but in DA you can outsmart the enemy by using the vents in the map... I prefer the CT gamestyle, but what upsets me a bit about it is, it is only for 2v2, And my first suggestion is, to have both, maps for 2v2 and for 3v3 because in a team of 3, people can use totally diffrent approaches than in 2v2, in 2v2s, there are more limits in teamplay, which i think is very sad.(I guess some of you will totally flame me for this comment, but i think it is importaint that anybody can express there own oppinion) Some might prefer 2v2, some 3v3, but i know that most love the CT gameplay, so i think the best game in my oppion to have would be:
- The movement speed From DA but keeping the importaint stealth elements from CT
- complicated maps like in DA.
- Game modes from Both Titles(all CT gamemodes, but for the DA fans also a mode with wireless terminal hacking).
- Maybe some "remakes" without breaking any copyrightlaws.
- The awesome gadets from CT.
- the ability to customiseable charakters and interface.
- 2v2 AND 3v3, why having only one, if it could be possible to do both ;D
- A team that actually removes glitches, from game and "original" maps
- The first stealth game where JUMPING can save yourself from beeing jumped!
But tell me about your oppinions, what do you guys think?
1. already covered my from understanding
2. Already thought of.
3. its 2 v 2 for now / but once a polished base there will possibly 3 v 3.
4.UDK editor will help those out interms of making thier own maps .
5. thats already done interms of the gadgets.. just search project stealth moddb in google and u''ll see.
6. Already customizable with Kebabs Character customization pack.
7. Thats the original intent of this project is well everything is done from scratch from maps to models so any old problems will not exist due to it being a new engine.
8. I don't quite acknowledge that interrogative
1: We're sticking with the original SAM type gameplay, including speed, gadgets with some improvements and slightly changed behaviour to get rid of gameplay annoyances.
2: Depends on the mapper. Mercs dont have that weird DA proximity sensor, so there's no need for Spies to be able to get away quickly from each point in the map. -> Less vents needed. If you are in a bad position as a Spy, it's your own screw-up.
3: Wireless hacking is not currently possible. Maybe later. The framework should have some hook, but I'm not sure about that.
4: We will only make original maps. If you want remakes, you can use UDK.
5: What about even more awesome ;)?
6: Maybe later. Interfaces are probably a no-go.
7: Support for that is in the code. We're really modular. Teams of 1 Spy and 1 Merc vs another team are also possible. Not going to be implemented for now, but it's possible in the framework.
8: Of course! We'll probably set up a public bugtracker.
9: Doesn't make sense to me.
Quote from: frvge on March 01, 2010, 07:11:30 PM
9: Doesn't make sense to me.You know, they sometimes do it in CT, but in DA it is very effective; the moment the mercs jump, you cant grab them, so they spin, Than jump, and while jumping they turn 90Ã,° so you cant grab them, in CT you could only jump once evry 2 seconds or so, but in DA you can jump nonstop, and therefore if you jump while turning you became "ungrabbable"(any other defenition for this awesome word) =D
We'll just make jumping have a slight delay and/or mess with your accuracy.
Quote from: frvge on March 01, 2010, 07:33:18 PM
We'll just make jumping have a slight delay and/or mess with your accuracy.
Wouldnt it be just simpler, that the game ignores if the person jumps or not? because otherwise people WILL use it to avoid to get there necks broken
There are at least two ways to fix it:
- bunnyhopping causes people to miss a grab, so remove and/or punish the bunny hopping
- allow people to grab a jumping merc.
The first deals with a bigger problem that also affects tasering the Merc and so on, and is generally considered an annoyance. The second is a subset of the first and is specifically targeted for that one problem. IMO it's better to fix it by using the first approach.
The sides of 'what is an annoyance' needs to be weighted carefully. Some annoyances can be good for gameplay in some cases, like a Merc not being able to jump across a small rail.
Playtesting should point these things out. I think that with common sense, it'll be fairly easy to pick out the wrong things.
Wireless hacking is easily possible in the current framework, how did you came to the assumption it wasn't, frvge?
I do agree I thought the ventilation systems in DA were a bit more fun to explore and master pathways.
Quote from: LennardF1989 on March 01, 2010, 09:00:50 PM
Wireless hacking is easily possible in the current framework, how did you came to the assumption it wasn't, frvge?
I meant that in PS 1 it won't be possible. As I said, the framework is capable of doing it (wasn't 100% sure on that).
Quote from: SoN_RaVeN on March 01, 2010, 06:37:48 PM
- The first stealth game where JUMPING can save yourself from beeing grabbed... We all know how depressive it is when your about to grab somebody and the person Jumps, and you cant grab him...
Edit: I think the last point also counts as a glitch... but is woth mentioning by its own because it sometimes P%$Ã,§ED the SHÃ,§"T out of me when playing SC
Maybe you should try sneaking up on people instead of charging them.
As for the point about complex maps... a level of complexity needs to be explored, but if you have too many options, the gameplay becomes so unpredictable that any competitive aspect of the map is dissolved.
Just asking, is there any version avalable for the public to play yet? :>
Quote from: SoN_RaVeN on March 02, 2010, 03:10:19 PM
Just asking, is there any version avalable for the public to play yet? :>
We don't want people to get a wrong impression, so please wait for a more stable release.
Quote from: Ambiguous Rocket on March 02, 2010, 07:52:32 AM
Quote from: SoN_RaVeN on March 01, 2010, 06:37:48 PM
- The first stealth game where JUMPING can save yourself from beeing grabbed... We all know how depressive it is when your about to grab somebody and the person Jumps, and you cant grab him...
Edit: I think the last point also counts as a glitch... but is woth mentioning by its own because it sometimes P%$Ã,§ED the SHÃ,§"T out of me when playing SC
Maybe you should try sneaking up on people instead of charging them.
Being aggressive and in the merc's face is a legitimate playstyle, but then again those who are aggro wouldn't get mad because they know what happens when a merc jumps.
Quote from: STON3COLDKILLA on March 02, 2010, 02:56:53 PM
As for the point about complex maps... a level of complexity needs to be explored, but if you have too many options, the gameplay becomes so unpredictable that any competitive aspect of the map is dissolved.
Yeah I agree. Hopefully the map makers hit a balance point. Somewhere between CT and DA.
Hey Lennard. Get your sig out ma POST NOW!
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg72.imageshack.us%2Fimg72%2F5272%2F96244211.png&hash=09bcb79e42e84363db5a068f7c54ffc2bf64bd65)
Quote from: FarleyFan on March 04, 2010, 02:38:14 AM
Hey Lennard. Get your sig out ma POST NOW!
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg72.imageshack.us%2Fimg72%2F5272%2F96244211.png&hash=09bcb79e42e84363db5a068f7c54ffc2bf64bd65)
when you ever gunna start playing games with this community rather then running ur mouth =/ ?
Farley, which browser do you have? That shouldn't happen.
IE8, Windows 7. It only happened one time and I decided to take a screen because it looked funny. It's not happening now lol
why would anyone ever use ie
why
Quote from: AgentX_003 on March 04, 2010, 02:39:57 AM
when you ever gunna start playing games with this community rather then running ur mouth =/ ?
The irony!
Quote from: frvge on March 02, 2010, 06:06:53 PM
Quote from: SoN_RaVeN on March 02, 2010, 03:10:19 PM
Just asking, is there any version avalable for the public to play yet? :>
We don't want people to get a wrong impression, so please wait for a more stable release.
I agree, its better to have a game thats fun to play, and where you can see how much time the creators actually spend time at, that having an ugly looking game with loads of bugs (DA!!!!)
Suggestion:
Give spies personal teleporters, but take away all their gadgets.
The spy would have to sneak up into the place he wants to teleport and leave a devica of some sort.
Then he could teleport there from any place on the map, making a huge amount of noise (hey, the dimensions are ripping, right?).
The device should be removable like cams and snares.
Well, stupid idea, but perhaps it spawns some other awesome idea that makes it into PS.
I'll just put all the ones I've gone on about (but not created mind you) in other threads just as a kind of cleaned up list.
-Gadget Variation Rewards (Could also include skins and stuff like that)
"The equivalent to TF2's Current System. Give small variations of Primary Gadgets as a reward for continually playing the game."
-PT Sabotage
"Modem Hide and Seek"
-Remote Controlled Mines (Merc)
"Another mine to add to the arsenal. You plant, and must manually detonate."
(Agent brought up the fact that Spy Traps could make this OP, but I believe that is a perfectly legit advantage/tactic if it came to that)
-Air Taser (Merc)
"Alternative to PT/CT Taser. Long Ranged, but easy to Miss"
-Phosphorus Grenades (without Spekkio's Update to them) (Merc)
"My favorite Decoy Grenade" (Didn't really care to use them for what they were meant for/wouldn't want it to hurt people)
-Wrist Hacker/DA Spy Glove (Spy)
"Hack Doors from long range. Disables defense like Sticky Shocker Gun, but in a Hacking Sense." (Exactly the same, but without the bullet)
-Network Cams (Spy)
"Variation of Sticky Cams that can be set up and monitored by both teammates. Spies equivalent to Camnet"
-Adrenalin Shot (Merc)
"Momentary boost of Speed. Like Bull Rush Speed, but without the slow down affect, and also takes up a gadget slot"
-Agent's Long Range Modem Hacker (Spy)
"Allow Spies to hack a door for a set amount of time from a set distance away. Will wear off like Spy Bullets/Alarm Snares, but can also be shot off by Merc. Reduces open area hacking deaths (Main C Door in Deftec for example) also to be used as a diversion."
-Spy/Merc Berserk Stalemate Scenario
"Sweet Spot on Merc's Head will negate MAJOR effect of Berserk (KO). Hard to achieve, requires precision, and with health penalties, but it gives Spy a very slim chance of evading instant kill."
-Challenges
"Small Achievements that are recorded in your Stat Profile that have no associating physical rewards."
-Stat Tracking
"Stats... Need I say more?"
Quote from: Cronky on March 16, 2010, 08:32:28 AM
I'll just put all the ones I've gone on about (but not created mind you) in other threads just as a kind of cleaned up list.
-Gadget Variation Rewards (Could also include skins and stuff like that)
"The equivalent to TF2's Current System. Give small variations of Primary Gadgets as a reward for playing the game."
-PT Sabotage
"Modem Hide and Seek"
-Remote Controlled Mines (Merc)
"Another mine to add to the arsenal. You plant, and must manually detonate."
-Air Taser (Merc)
"Alternative to PT/CT Taser. Long Ranged, but easy to Miss"
-Phosphorus Grenades (without Spekkio's Update to them) (Merc)
"My favorite Decoy Grenade" (Didn't really care to use them for what they were meant for)
-Wrist Hacker/DA Spy Glove (Spy)
"Hack Doors from long range. Disables defense like Sticky Shocker Gun, but in a Hacking Sense." (Exactly the same, but without the bullet)
-Network Cams (Spy)
"Variation of Sticky Cams that can be set up and monitored by both teammates. Spies equivalent to Camnet"
-Adrenalin Shot (Merc)
"Momentary boost of Speed. Like Bull Rush Speed, but without the slow down affect, and also takes up a gadget slot"
-Agent's Long Range Modem Hacker (Spy)
"Allow Spies to hack a door for a set amount of time from a set distance away. Will wear off like Spy Bullets/Alarm Snares, but can also be shot off by Merc. Reduces open area hacking deaths (Main C Door in Deftec for example) also to be used as a diversion."
-Spy/Merc Berserk Stalemate Scenario
"Sweet Spot on Merc's Head will negate MAJOR effect of Berserk (KO). Hard to achieve, requires precision, and with health penalties, but it gives Spy a very slim chance of evading instant kill."
-Challenges
"Small Achievements that are recorded in your Stat Profile that have no associating physical rewards."
-Stat Tracking
"Stats... Need I say more?"
Some really cool ideas here. The long range modem hacker, would that be like a spy bullet, but you shoot it at hacking panels and it'll hack it for you? That'd be a badass gadget, especially on Deftec, Club and Aqua.
Quote from: tigaer on March 16, 2010, 11:01:55 AM
Some really cool ideas here. The long range modem hacker, would that be like a spy bullet, but you shoot it at hacking panels and it'll hack it for you? That'd be a badass gadget, especially on Deftec, Club and Aqua.
You'd really have to ask Agent about that. I assumed when I heard about it that you may have to Physically plant it. A Shooting version seems like it would be a little unbalanced to me. Since then you would have no risk associated with actually using it.
So you do still have to GET to the door, but you can open it from further away. Now that I think about it, kind of does the same thing the wrist hacker does... Perhaps both could be combined somehow.
But again, it's not my idea so I can only say so much.
Quote from: Cronky on March 16, 2010, 11:07:30 AM
Quote from: tigaer on March 16, 2010, 11:01:55 AM
Some really cool ideas here. The long range modem hacker, would that be like a spy bullet, but you shoot it at hacking panels and it'll hack it for you? That'd be a badass gadget, especially on Deftec, Club and Aqua.
You'd really have to ask Agent about that. I assumed when I heard about it that you may have to Physically plant it. A Shooting version seems like it would be a little unbalanced to me. Since then you would have no risk associated with actually using it.
So you do still have to GET to the door, but you can open it from further away. Now that I think about it, kind of does the same thing the wrist hacker does... Perhaps both could be combined somehow.
But again, it's not my idea so I can only say so much.
It wouldn't be unbalanced. You're sacrificing a gadget slot for it, it needs to be useful. I think it'd be a great gadget how I explaied it. Just make it where you only have 3 of them, while taking 10ish seconds to hack and it'd be perfect.
Quote from: tigaer on March 16, 2010, 11:10:53 AM
It wouldn't be unbalanced. You're sacrificing a gadget slot for it, it needs to be useful. I think it'd be a great gadget how I explaied it. Just make it where you only have 3 of them, while taking 10ish seconds to hack and it'd be perfect.
That's true, I just see the bullet version of it being too much. Just personal opinion.
Balance how I saw it was that it took roughly the same time to hack, perhaps distance being a factor, but the modem is bigger on the Panels (Size of the keypad... But blends in well), plus you have to risk the open area to use it.
When I think of bullet version I imagine Sticky Cam, which is noticeable when close, but also hard to see. The Merc's having no Ultra clear way (Aside from EMF) to actually notice the device.
Again all just pure opinion of taste. I heard Agent say "Modem like in PT that... etc" and imagined bigger plant-able item. First impression got me. I can definitely see the benefits of having a smaller, bullet version of it the more I think about it.
copied from a thread i made Long ago ...
[06:47] AgentX_003: ok my idea is this :
a gadget that's in design of the modem from the mode sabotage ( for those who remember it from Pt).
Use : Be planted on a wall. Can only be equipped one per person because then you would have spies
opening doors everywhere.
Function : Enables the spy to open doors in a more subtle manner. Its range includes that the Gadget can only be planted on a outer wall close to the door panel. Device can hack panel through wall.
Trade off : Just like a sticky cam ,a Merc can detect it on Emf and shoot it out.
other notes :
Hacking in progress warning: Yet to be determined.
Quote from: AgentX_003 on March 16, 2010, 11:51:35 AM
copied from a thread i made Long ago ...
[06:47] AgentX_003: ok my idea is this :
a gadget that's in design of the modem from the mode sabotage ( for those who remember it from Pt).
Use : Be planted on a wall. Can only be equipped one per person because then you would have spies
opening doors everywhere.
Function : Enables the spy to open doors in a more subtle manner. Its range includes that the Gadget can only be planted on a outer wall close to the door panel. Device can hack panel through wall.
Trade off : Just like a sticky cam ,a Merc can detect it on Emf and shoot it out.
other notes :
Hacking in progress warning: Yet to be determined.
I believe these are my major ideas with it:
(Just my opinions of course)
-Instead of on the wall Near a Wall Hack. It should be on the wall hack, but blended well. Not invisible mind you (especially in EMV), but not eye catchingly different than what it's on. The sight of the door staying open will be a very clear sign that a hacker is on it.
-Make the spy have to plant it on the hack of choice
-Hack Warning is on the fence to me. I say no hack warning because it does dissipate naturally in your idea much like alarm snares/spy bullets. So it's not a permanent threat.
-About the shape and size of how big the keypad is on the door hacks.
-Perhaps it could tie in with the Wrist Hacker. Exclude that one from my list and just make the animation of the spy typing on a wrist hacker. (Since I believe every gadget should have a physical item upon the spy or merc. Even if it's small. Makes them look more customized and varied depending on your loadout)
-With all this. Do as tigaer said and make it take like 10 seconds to hack. So that you have a time risk also.
-Give the spy probably 2 or find a way to balance them per level. OR Give them unlimited amounts of them, but it can only be used on one door at a time.That's about it
Quote from: Cronky on March 16, 2010, 08:32:28 AM
I'll just put all the ones I've gone on about (but not created mind you) in other threads just as a kind of cleaned up list.
-Gadget Variation Rewards (Could also include skins and stuff like that)
"The equivalent to TF2's Current System. Give small variations of Primary Gadgets as a reward for playing the game."
-PT Sabotage
"Modem Hide and Seek"
-Remote Controlled Mines (Merc)
"Another mine to add to the arsenal. You plant, and must manually detonate."
-Air Taser (Merc)
"Alternative to PT/CT Taser. Long Ranged, but easy to Miss"
-Phosphorus Grenades (without Spekkio's Update to them) (Merc)
"My favorite Decoy Grenade" (Didn't really care to use them for what they were meant for)
-Wrist Hacker/DA Spy Glove (Spy)
"Hack Doors from long range. Disables defense like Sticky Shocker Gun, but in a Hacking Sense." (Exactly the same, but without the bullet)
-Network Cams (Spy)
"Variation of Sticky Cams that can be set up and monitored by both teammates. Spies equivalent to Camnet"
-Adrenalin Shot (Merc)
"Momentary boost of Speed. Like Bull Rush Speed, but without the slow down affect, and also takes up a gadget slot"
-Agent's Long Range Modem Hacker (Spy)
"Allow Spies to hack a door for a set amount of time from a set distance away. Will wear off like Spy Bullets/Alarm Snares, but can also be shot off by Merc. Reduces open area hacking deaths (Main C Door in Deftec for example) also to be used as a diversion."
-Spy/Merc Berserk Stalemate Scenario
"Sweet Spot on Merc's Head will negate MAJOR effect of Berserk (KO). Hard to achieve, requires precision, and with health penalties, but it gives Spy a very slim chance of evading instant kill."
-Challenges
"Small Achievements that are recorded in your Stat Profile that have no associating physical rewards."
-Stat Tracking
"Stats... Need I say more?"
Adding in:
-Co-Op Gadgets:
"In two forms:
Type A: that only one person brings, but both can use. (Such as Network Cams*)
Type B: that both players must have equipped. (Closest thing to this is that CT Co-Op EMP Gun)"
*Clarification of Network Cam use is that only the person who Brought it can physically set them up, but both players can monitor them.
To kind of build upon what Agent said, instead of a huge panel that would take time to set up, I'm thinking about what Bioshock 2 did with hack darts
It would shoot out like a spy bullet or alarm snare.
Maybe it would auto-hack those wall panels (doors/lights/windows etc.) and could manually hack terminals from a distance of around 30 feet.
When hacking a terminal with these darts it takes double the time to hack and you have to do it manually (some mini-game like Bioshock 2 or CT's single player hacking game).
The spy would be looking at his arm band and maybe be able to move very slowly while hacking. If the spy moves out of range the hacking stops and a hack dart is wasted.
Maybe the spy would be able to plant a hack dart, go away, and come back later to commence the hacking. *Push X to start hacking* that sort of thing...
The spy would show up on EMF obviously. I'm trying to think of how to make it useful but balanced. Maybe you guys could think of ways to help this.
This would be an alternative idea to the already talked about remote hack glove.
Cronky, for "Type A" coop gadget, I still like the grappel rope. A spy can throw a rope over an edge (like from the top of a coop spot) and then each spy can shimmy up them. It would be very useful, depending on the map ofc, and the merc's could still see it and shoot it down. Seems balanced but who knows.
Quote from: FarleyFan on March 17, 2010, 02:04:42 AM
Cronky, for "Type A" coop gadget, I still like the grappel rope. A spy can throw a rope over an edge (like from the top of a coop spot) and then each spy can shimmy up them. It would be very useful, depending on the map ofc, and the merc's could still see it and shoot it down. Seems balanced but who knows.
then you could get to co-op only spots, on your own.
Quote from: I <3 U on March 17, 2010, 02:48:50 AM
then you could get to co-op only spots, on your own.
This illustrates exactly why these gadget suggestion threads are useless and silly.
Exactly... focus on changes to gameplay and balance more than new gadget and implementations.
Quote from: FarleyFan on March 17, 2010, 02:04:42 AM
Cronky, for "Type A" coop gadget, I still like the grappel rope. A spy can throw a rope over an edge (like from the top of a coop spot) and then each spy can shimmy up them. It would be very useful, depending on the map ofc, and the merc's could still see it and shoot it down. Seems balanced but who knows.
Yeah I agree with the others that it would not be useful considering the only difference between this and an actual coop is that the top spy just a rope instead of go hang on the ledge. On the other hand, it could be useful in places where coop is not possible. One scenario would be in the hall at Lakehouse where one spy on a higher floor could drop a rope for his mate to get to the second floor faster. Of course there are many places this could work in future maps as well.
It could also be used in vent areas to replace poles and ladders just to add some variety. But with this requires more physics when the spy is shaking back and forth as he climbs. It could be worth it depending on the complexity of making it.
The idea of a rope could be made into a coop gadget with a couple of purposes. First, it could be handy for easier transportation of climbing or crossing horizontal sections. Second, it could be used as a trip rope (I mentioned this in another thread) if both spies grab either end near a door or hallway. Considering this, there is potential for a personal gadget section where each spy picks 4 gadgets for themselves (the normal ones) and also one coop gadget of either the rope or cam network (if we could think of any more coop gadgets then they could be added to this list). This could work if balanced correctly. The only issue would be teammates fighting over which to take...
I think I didn't describe the rope well enough. You could only throw it down from a ledge. You'd have to use coop once to get up there. Then you could throw down a rope so you could get up there solo.
Quote from: Ion.67 on March 17, 2010, 03:40:46 AM
Exactly... focus on changes to gameplay and balance more than new gadget and implementations.
Don't go there Ion...
As if to say that you want to change something that is already in the game has been responded with any more optimism than this inkling of an idea is just... wrong.
Spekkio may have made it sound all nice, but he's still using the same cards.
Good job Spek, you managed to say, "All these ideas are stupid" without sounding like an asshole. Again not progressing or evolving the discussion with alterations to the ideas you read. You can keep to your balancing of already made Gadgets in your recent posts in another thread. Some of us though would like to see more than what has already been made and balanced by previous games.
:)
the rope would also make designing balanced levs difficult, and it's just generally not needed.
I <3 U, that's a good point that I've thought of before. It could make designing maps difficult and that may be reason enough to forget about this. But then again it might not be that much of a pain especially if mercs check the important coop spots for a rope hanging there. More things on the merc To Do List helps to prevent camping. :)
Quote from: FarleyFan on March 17, 2010, 03:48:49 PM
I <3 U, that's a good point that I've thought of before. It could make designing maps difficult and that may be reason enough to forget about this. But then again it might not be that much of a pain especially if mercs check the important coop spots for a rope hanging there. More things on the merc To Do List helps to prevent camping. :)
also make it pretty damn hard to cover the objectives aswell, especially if the ammo box things for spies gets implemented, mercs will be all over the place. I just think it's not really needed tbh.
Quote from: Cronky on March 17, 2010, 07:51:23 AM
Quote from: Ion.67 on March 17, 2010, 03:40:46 AM
Exactly... focus on changes to gameplay and balance more than new gadget and implementations.
Don't go there Ion...
As if to say that you want to change something that is already in the game has been responded with any more optimism than this inkling of an idea is just... wrong.
Spekkio may have made it sound all nice, but he's still using the same cards.
Good job Spek, you managed to say, "All these ideas are stupid" without sounding like an asshole. Again not progressing or evolving the discussion with alterations to the ideas you read. You can keep to your balancing of already made Gadgets in your recent posts in another thread. Some of us though would like to see more than what has already been made and balanced by previous games.
:)
My comment was made because there are a good portion of people on these boards that like to make up gadget ideas just because they can. Then they'll spend 10 pages defending their dumb ideas because they must be good by virtue of the fact that the person thought of them. Never mind that most of them clearly show no thought into how they'd have ripple effects into other aspects of the game or if they'd even be useful in the context of the game.
Case and point: a rope. Not once was I like "gee, I really wish I could hang a rope down from this ledge!" in CT. It's just not something that would be useful, especially since you can just hang off the ledge and give your partner a leg up.
There's nothing wrong with wanting to see more new stuff implemented into a game, but doing so would probably require redoing the gadgets from the ground up. There just isn't that much room for abilities that weren't already covered that would not be either completely useless or utterly OP.
Threads like this on the Ubi forums are why we have friggin camnet in CT. Some douchebag 10 year old was like "omg, wouldn't it be cool if we could like, look into a network of cams or something" (go ahead, Agent, dig up that old thread) and some idiot Frenchie at Ubi thought that was a good idea. So now you have a gadget that allows mercs to camp in some safe spot in the map and search for spies without making himself vulnerable. Hooray!
No one wants a damn rope in the game. Who the hell would sit and wait for a merc to run by, with a rope clearly visible between both spies (a clear advantage for the merc, knowing both spies are present) just to trip him? That is retarded. No one would even considering doing it if it was in the game. Lowering the rope is the same as having him climb up your feet. Good job.
I don't agree with everything spekkio says. Firstly, I believe that smoke and cams should not be absolutely countered by the mask. He wants it as a mandatory gadget, but then why even take the smokes when the merc can hit a button and be saved? Then again, without the mask you are screwed. Secondly, he wants to spawn with the same amount of ammo as you died with, which I don't agree with. Don't make it sound like I am his fanboy. I just happen to think that every gadget that has come up has sounded absolutely ridiculous.
Work on balancing what is in the game currently. Alarm snares suck ass, tazer went from rocking to suckin dick, and camnet was pointless and unneeded. Flares shouldn't even be in the game. Coop spots were cool but were designed in a poor manor.
How do I propose we fix this? I don't. I have no clue how to balance any of these things. But I do know that adding in a rope won't fix a damn thing. Could we add in anal beads to balance out camnet camping? Sure we could but it would be pointless. Fix the game before you add to it.
Quote from: Spekkio on March 17, 2010, 10:38:53 PM
My comment was made because there are a good portion of people on these boards that like to make up gadget ideas just because they can. Then they'll spend 10 pages defending their dumb ideas because they must be good by virtue of the fact that the person thought of them. Never mind that most of them clearly show no thought into how they'd have ripple effects into other aspects of the game or if they'd even be useful in the context of the game.
Case and point: a rope. Not once was I like "gee, I really wish I could hang a rope down from this ledge!" in CT. It's just not something that would be useful, especially since you can just hang off the ledge and give your partner a leg up.
There's nothing wrong with wanting to see more new stuff implemented into a game, but doing so would probably require redoing the gadgets from the ground up. There just isn't that much room for abilities that weren't already covered that would not be either completely useless or utterly OP.
Threads like this on the Ubi forums are why we have friggin camnet in CT. Some douchebag 10 year old was like "omg, wouldn't it be cool if we could like, look into a network of cams or something" (go ahead, Agent, dig up that old thread) and some idiot Frenchie at Ubi thought that was a good idea. So now you have a gadget that allows mercs to camp in some safe spot in the map and search for spies without making himself vulnerable. Hooray!
See, the problem I have with that Mindset is it's a "Do or Die" kind of thought process. Take your gadget balance posts. I didn't say, "Obviously the Ammo Crates wont work. The system right now is perfect as is." and left it at that. I asked questions, gave you room to elaborate on your idea with another thought/response. Or just detail your idea MORE. Forums are for discussions, and while denoting an idea because something is wrong with it initially... doesn't mean that it can't turn into something worthwhile.
The Rope idea is a perfect example. Farley went on with it. Got some discussion, now he understands that it wont work the way he planned at first. (Even if he wasn't the original creator of it)
Does that mean that a Rope Idea CAN'T work? No, just that one doesn't. Does that mean that Co-Op gadgets couldn't work? Absolutely not.
The Camnet part of your response just comes off as Personal Opinion. Camnet may not be PERFECT, but it's far from a Horrible idea. I did find it fun to sit on the Cams. I did plant myself in "Safe" spots when using it, but that far from meant that I was completely safe from a Spy Attack. Goes with your same argument before that, "If the person is doing Action A, then he isn't doing Action B".
Action A being looking through Camnet in this example.
Action B being Protecting the Objectives fully.
Keyword about this whole part is that it was FUN. Not everything comes down to technical babble right off the bat. The ideas that I listed above weren't thought completely with the sense that, "Oh this will make the Spies/Mercs OP". Mostly just things I'd LIKE to see... in some way, shape, or form.
Quote from: Ion.67 on March 17, 2010, 11:23:35 PM
No one wants a damn rope in the game. Who the hell would sit and wait for a merc to run by, with a rope clearly visible between both spies (a clear advantage for the merc, knowing both spies are present) just to trip him? That is retarded. No one would even considering doing it if it was in the game. Lowering the rope is the same as having him climb up your feet. Good job.
I don't agree with everything spekkio says. Firstly, I believe that smoke and cams should not be absolutely countered by the mask. He wants it as a mandatory gadget, but then why even take the smokes when the merc can hit a button and be saved? Then again, without the mask you are screwed. Secondly, he wants to spawn with the same amount of ammo as you died with, which I don't agree with. Don't make it sound like I am his fanboy. I just happen to think that every gadget that has come up has sounded absolutely ridiculous.
Work on balancing what is in the game currently. Alarm snares suck ass, tazer went from rocking to suckin dick, and camnet was pointless and unneeded. Flares shouldn't even be in the game. Coop spots were cool but were designed in a poor manor.
How do I propose we fix this? I don't. I have no clue how to balance any of these things. But I do know that adding in a rope won't fix a damn thing. Could we add in anal beads to balance out camnet camping? Sure we could but it would be pointless. Fix the game before you add to it.
You just said the exact reason why these posts come up. Why the gadget ideas are more prominent then "Balancing" issues of CT. We don't have control over balancing. We also don't know exactly how PS is going to work in terms of the things we think we know.
All we as community members can do is "Suggest" (Har Har, Topic Name) stuff we'd like to see. A rope would be FUN to use. Is it practical within the gameplay aspect? Not really, but that's why it was mentioned. COULD it be practical? Maybe if it was figured out exactly how a rope could fit in.
Trip Rope would be Fun! Now don't go assuming that the rope is Huge and easy to see. Imagine if Doorways were actually Co-Op spots and the "Rope" was near invisible. Maybe a Wire. You don't have to use it, but then again. You don't HAVE to use anything. A KO time for Merc. Or hell, maybe it makes them unable to move for a few seconds (unlike a KO they could still shoot and turn, just not move).
The ideas proposed here are plausible, but not set in stone. They're up for discussion. Farley has the right idea. Don't assume any of these are a dead set idea.
(Didn't mean to say you agreed with Spekkio 100%. Though I can see how that could be thought. That part was just for the forum in general, in the terms of new/re-vamped ideas. Though if you didn't agree with Spekkio on those points. Why didn't you mention it? Could have led to MORE discussion :))
We value all suggestions. From 100 silly ones, there's about 1 that can be morphed into something that's actually really cool.
Which is exactly the point I hope I'm trying to convey.
Obviously not EVERYTHING is going to make it in, but if it can be discussed and also refined it would be easier to add at some time. Since the pre-planning/design would already be written out.
Shutting an ideas down from the start keeps them stuck at one spot. Agent wanted to talk about his Door Hacker, I brought it back up (as an example).
...Though It'd be nice if he came in here and actually voiced his opinion about it more (HINT HINT).
My long posts aren't because I'm trying to force an Idea down people's throats, but rather to keep discussion of said idea in play... and it becomes apparent eventually that I talk about a lot of things I don't know legitimately, but mainly that's because my experience with CT/PT was Fun. With a constant partner that had the same mindset. We may have played to win, but it wasn't the only thing on our minds.
(That got sentimental... ;))
Gadgets are not supposed to be fun and pointless. The game provides the fun and gadgets aid at winning. Making a useless gadget just because it's cool is a waste.
The good thing about the current gadgets is that we know how they already work, the developers know how they work, and that is key. I could tell you that I think we should have 15 alarm snares are they should be able to be toggled. You know exactly what I mean and can instantly start thinking of the ramifications. When you say make a rope that trips people and can be climbed...well.... why would I ever want to trip someone when I can snap their neck? Why would I want to throw a rope instead of have my buddy climb up me? What balance would this create? Nothing good comes of this.
One suggestion I do have is that the game is set up in a best two of three system. Play as spy, lose, play as merc, win, randomly play as spy or merc. I think that would help a great deal with people whoring the spy and leaving during their merc rounds... Suggestions? Discussion?
Ion, the rope isn't for tripping mercs.
Quote from: FarleyFan on March 18, 2010, 02:14:29 AM
Ion, the rope isn't for tripping mercs.
Sorry sir....
Quote from: CurdyMilk on March 17, 2010, 03:51:01 AM
Second, it could be used as a trip rope (I mentioned this in another thread) if both spies grab either end near a door or hallway.
Quote from: Cronky on March 18, 2010, 12:14:25 AM
Trip Rope would be Fun! Now don't go assuming that the rope is Huge and easy to see. Imagine if Doorways were actually Co-Op spots and the "Rope" was near invisible. Maybe a Wire. You don't have to use it, but then again. You don't HAVE to use anything. A KO time for Merc. Or hell, maybe it makes them unable to move for a few seconds (unlike a KO they could still shoot and turn, just not move).
I guess I had mistaken the words
trip rope for a rope that would trip people.
Quote from: Ion.67 on March 18, 2010, 12:43:58 AM
Gadgets are not supposed to be fun and pointless. The game provides the fun and gadgets aid at winning. Making a useless gadget just because it's cool is a waste.
The good thing about the current gadgets is that we know how they already work, the developers know how they work, and that is key. I could tell you that I think we should have 15 alarm snares are they should be able to be toggled. You know exactly what I mean and can instantly start thinking of the ramifications. When you say make a rope that trips people and can be climbed...well.... why would I ever want to trip someone when I can snap their neck? Why would I want to throw a rope instead of have my buddy climb up me? What balance would this create? Nothing good comes of this.
One suggestion I do have is that the game is set up in a best two of three system. Play as spy, lose, play as merc, win, randomly play as spy or merc. I think that would help a great deal with people whoring the spy and leaving during their merc rounds... Suggestions? Discussion?
The thing about the current gadgets is that they aren't new. There hasn't been a gadget mentioned that doesn't have a specific use. Some may be LESS useful to the overall purpose of what you are trying to do. As are SOME gadgets that were already out there (Flares? Phosphorus?).
The saying, "Why would I want to do A when I could do B" isn't very valid because why would you want to Jump on people when you could Snap their Neck. It's SOMETHING else to do. My version (That follows Curdly's Version) is a Trip Rope. Farley wanted a Co-Op rope.
In my revision the Trip Rope incapacitates the Merc's ability to Move. Not turn or fire, but just stop them for a few seconds. (As if their feet were tripped/tied up) In this way the Rope would be an inherent gadget that serves like a normal Co-Op mode when they are at each side of doorways.
The idea of yours sounds like Revenge Mode, possibly could be added upon. Since Revenge mode could end in a Stalemate. It's possible, but it also sounded like you were just suggesting that out of spite of what I said.
I actually just thought of it, it had nothing to do with your post.
Why would I jump on someone when I could snap their neck? I have the upper hand when they don't see me and I should take any chance I get. I am above them obviously, and jumping is quicker than grabbing and snapping, while possibly leaving more time to get away and leaving the gadget count the same. Snapping their neck has clear advantages (life count goes down, spawn far away, no communication), but jumping also has advantages.
Your trip rope idea has no clear advantage. I still do not even understand it; do you set it up and walk away, or do both spies have to stay and hold the rope? In one case, it would be slightly more useful. Still though, a camera can serve just as good of a cause, and better yet, since both spies will probably still be hovering in the same area, use some partner work to hack the objective.
Speaking of partner work, it should be a crucial part of project stealth. In CT, coop spots seemed to be an added gimmick that attempted to encourage you to stick with your partner to gain better positions. What it really did though was force you to stay with your partner in the opening moves of the game, get one player in that spot, and have the other cause diversions and distractions so the cooped partner could get into position. Is there anything wrong with that? No! But, there should be advantage of staying together that extend far beyond that. I believe that those advantages were there in CT (it was so much easier to get an objective when the merc had to deal with someone else first) but they were not prevalent enough.
As far as the coop rope, why not just have the spy climb up the body? Leaving the rope would be bad... why even make it a coop spot if you can go by yourself?
QuoteSpeaking of partner work, it should be a crucial part of project stealth. In CT, coop spots seemed to be an added gimmick that attempted to encourage you to stick with your partner to gain better positions. What it really did though was force you to stay with your partner in the opening moves of the game, get one player in that spot, and have the other cause diversions and distractions so the cooped partner could get into position. Is there anything wrong with that? No! But, there should be advantage of staying together that extend far beyond that. I believe that those advantages were there in CT (it was so much easier to get an objective when the merc had to deal with someone else first) but they were not prevalent enough.
I disagree with this because it makes the game exceedingly difficult to play with anyone other than a steady teammate. It's already kinda there for spies, so it really doesn't have to move more in that direction.
I do agree that Co-op moves were a gimmick in most maps. Coop should give offer the spies an alternative, but not be necessary to give you an advantage. The maps that did co-op moves correctly were Factory and Club; maps that did it incorrectly were Aqua and Station. Aqua because you couldn't access the entire map without a teammate, and Station because it was impossible to get into the map without a teammate.
Quote from: CronkyThe thing about the current gadgets is that they aren't new. There hasn't been a gadget mentioned that doesn't have a specific use. Some may be LESS useful to the overall purpose of what you are trying to do. As are SOME gadgets that were already out there (Flares? Phosphorus?).
So? New doesn't equate to good, and old doesn't equate to bad. Most of the gadgets currently work, and some could be brought up to par with a small amount of modification. Ion is exactly right as far as the quality of gadget suggestions.
Additionally, too many gadgets is a bad thing. If you add 1-2 more gadgets per side, you now have up to 10 gadgets to choose from each. Do you now expand the slots to 5-6? Do you keep it at 4? At some point, it becomes impossible to balance all gadget combinations, and the game becomes a silly guessing game of taking the proper load out to counter your partner's load out.
This is why I said that the gadgets will need to be redone from the ground up if you want anything significantly new and good. However, you can't reinvent the wheel; there are only so many military-esque equipment items you can include before you start going into the realm of ridiculousness. The way we kill each other hasn't changed much over the past 100 years or so; the tools have just evolved to be more efficient at it.
QuoteFirstly, I believe that smoke and cams should not be absolutely countered by the mask. He wants it as a mandatory gadget, but then why even take the smokes when the merc can hit a button and be saved? Then again, without the mask you are screwed.
Smoke does more than just slow the mercs; it masks your movement as well. Yes, it can be countered via MT or EMF if you're using thermal, but flashbangs can, too.
Like you said, though, you're screwed without mask as long as cams cause a KO. No one is going to give up that gadget so long as it offers an additional way to KO the merc, and thus you'd be silly not to take the gasmask. In PT, you could "cam wall" someone into an area, so the mask was a good addition.
Quote from: Cronky
All we as community members can do is "Suggest" (Har Har, Topic Name) stuff we'd like to see. A rope would be FUN to use. Is it practical within the gameplay aspect? Not really, but that's why it was mentioned. COULD it be practical? Maybe if it was figured out exactly how a rope could fit in.
Your thought process is all fucked up, as are all the people suggesting useless gadgets.
The very first thing you should think of before you start rattling off gadget ideas is what would be useful in the context of the game. What do you really need help doing? Then you think of an idea to solve the problem.
Instead, you're thinking of a gadget and then trying to force it to work in the context of the game. You're creating a solution and then trying to invent a problem where none may exist. That is why the gadgets suck.
QuoteI did find it fun to sit on the Cams. I did plant myself in "Safe" spots when using it, but that far from meant that I was completely safe from a Spy Attack. Goes with your same argument before that, "If the person is doing Action A, then he isn't doing Action B".
I'm glad you found it fun to hit spacebar then tab at a fast pace to find spies on MT. Surely that's what SvM is all about...sitting around and passively looking through a camera to find spies.
Camnet sucks for multiple reasons:
1) Passive cams do their job just fine. Yes, they can be countered, but that's why you have additional traps and mines to augment those cams. You can also, I dunno, walk around a bit to find the spies. There was absolutely no reason to make this a manual process. But some idiot thought it would be a "cool" idea to put in the game and Ubi listened for some god awful reason. For better or worse, the PS team doesn't want to remove content, so we're stuck with it.
2) It kills the meta-game. Mercs aren't vulnerable when they sit in one spot. This is why "rail camping" sucks so much. There's really nothing the spies can do to counter a merc who doesn't have to move to a more vulnerable position. He can kill you from any distance with a sniper; you can't do anything to him unless you get close and above or behind him. Camnet allows one merc to conduct his search in safety, while the other just hunts what the first one sees. The subtitle to SvM is "Stealth
Action." There's no real action when a merc is sitting in a corner flipping through cameras.
3) It's completely overpowered in its current form. This problem can be fixed, but you'll still have the first two issues to contend with.
Quote from: Spekkio on March 18, 2010, 11:09:00 AM
[...]Camnet sucks for multiple reasons:[...]
Althought your arguments sound pretty logic and good, the truth is that the only map that it was a problem on was River Mall. In my 5 (or how many years CT has been out) years of playing, I have never experienced the camnet as overpowered (except for River Mall as I mentioned).
Only gadgets I think would even be worth testing would be;
Shock Wires (Spy)
Shoots like a spy bullet, connects with the opposite wall like a laser mine but when a merc walks through it he gets shocked. Wire can be seen and shot.
Hacking Bullets (Spy)
Shoots like a spy bullet, hacks hack panels and only panels automatically. Multiply the hack time by 2. Can be seen and shot.
Hologram thing (Spy)
Everybody knows this. Still think it would be fun to test.
Rappel (Merc)
Rappel down railings like DA.
Drone Grenade (Merc)
Would shoot like a grenade, after it settles (stops bouncing) after being shot you can control it and detonate it, much like the drones from DA. it'd look like Metroid in ball mode. Would control in first person. Only flashlight, and it's always on, no vision modes.
My opinion though. Don't stop thinking up gadgets though, some of them are interesting ideas and like reading stuff like this. So keep thinking stuff up. Think up some gadgets that help you avoid situations that you didn't like in CT.
Quote from: Ion.67 on March 18, 2010, 02:28:02 AM
Quote from: FarleyFan on March 18, 2010, 02:14:29 AM
Ion, the rope isn't for tripping mercs.
Sorry sir....
Quote from: CurdyMilk on March 17, 2010, 03:51:01 AM
Second, it could be used as a trip rope (I mentioned this in another thread) if both spies grab either end near a door or hallway.
Quote from: Cronky on March 18, 2010, 12:14:25 AM
Trip Rope would be Fun! Now don't go assuming that the rope is Huge and easy to see. Imagine if Doorways were actually Co-Op spots and the "Rope" was near invisible. Maybe a Wire. You don't have to use it, but then again. You don't HAVE to use anything. A KO time for Merc. Or hell, maybe it makes them unable to move for a few seconds (unlike a KO they could still shoot and turn, just not move).
I guess I had mistaken the words trip rope for a rope that would trip people.
Thought you were talking about my post. Sorry, smartass.
Quote from: tigaer on March 18, 2010, 05:03:40 PM
Only gadgets I think would even be worth testing would be;
Shock Wires (Spy)
Shoots like a spy bullet, connects with the opposite wall like a laser mine but when a merc walks through it he gets shocked. Wire can be seen and shot.
Hacking Bullets (Spy)
Shoots like a spy bullet, hacks hack panels and only panels automatically. Multiply the hack time by 2. Can be seen and shot.
Hologram thing (Spy)
Everybody knows this. Still think it would be fun to test.
Rappel (Merc)
Rappel down railings like DA.
Drone Grenade (Merc)
Would shoot like a grenade, after it settles (stops bouncing) after being shot you can control it and detonate it, much like the drones from DA. it'd look like Metroid in ball mode. Would control in first person. Only flashlight, and it's always on, no vision modes.
My opinion though. Don't stop thinking up gadgets though, some of them are interesting ideas and like reading stuff like this. So keep thinking stuff up. Think up some gadgets that help you avoid situations that you didn't like in CT.
Shock Wires are good and should be tested for sure. This is similar to the trip rope but the more I think about it this would be better than the rope because it would be much easier to make and more convenient. Hacking bullets also seem legitmate. I am not a huge fan of the hologram or drone grenades though. The hologram could be very annoying if you are the merc having to watch it. For the drone, I think that the spies should be able to have safe spots on each map where they know they cannot be killed. Vents would no longer be safe because you would always have to be watching out for some robot thing chasing you around. It is harder to be deceptive with a cat and mouse style.
Quote from: Spekkio on March 18, 2010, 11:09:00 AM
A Lot of stuff
Spekkio, I've had about enough of your close-minded, and frankly hypocritical statements that you post on here.
You are not only proposing that more things SHOULDN'T be added, but with the exclusion of Camnet, LESS should be in the final build of this game. That and anything that get's brought up is non-valid to the game because it's not a clear idea from the very beginning.
Did you not read what the Rope ideas were? Where I may have said in that sentence that "Yes a Rope would be fun", I assumed you'd connect that with any of the other posts. It's not backwards, it's suggestions, Discussion, and Refinement.
Not all ideas are perfect, not all will work, and not all will obviously be put into the game. That doesn't mean we can't talk about them. Figure out if they CAN work on the offchance that the Devs actually want to make their game NEW somehow. I've heard of no Gadget on PS that differs from CT at all.
I bring up hypocritical because of the fact that when you are validating the ideas in here you take them to extremes, but when you are suggesting an idea you politely ask NOT to take something to an extreme. Ammo Crates and Death does not Refill Gadgets.
"Sure it's easy to think of extreme examples to support either case, but if the devs are motivated enough I think they can reach a sweet spot."
If I'm not mistaken, you just said the equivalent to, "This idea isn't perfect, but if the Devs put it in and balance it then it could work". Balancing equaling out to Play Testing. That which has been brought to my attention that You, "love how that is always the fallback for people with shitty ideas.".
You (and your group) didn't like the Gadget Variation Rewards because it takes away options from the players, but putting in too many can mess the game up too... That sounds like it Validates the Rewards now. Since you wont be messed up if you don't have them from the start, and STILL none of them are HUGELY Overpowered.
I'm glad you're thinking of the technical side of this whole entire thread, but you're leaving VERY little room for discussion. So again I must SUGGEST that if you can't think of a way that these SUGGESTIONS could work, stay in your "Old" Gadget Balancing thread.
You are retarded. There are certain people on these boards that generally shoot ideas down right away that are dumb, and they have reason to. They have been part of this since the beginning and have played CT and PT a whole lot. Basically, you registered 2 months ago and are flaming people for thinking your idea is wrong. Well, I barely played PT and played CT a fair share but can still tell you that your rope idea is terribly dumb. When someone comes up with a decent idea I am sure it will be okay and everyone will be happy.
No one wants to refine your idea because your idea is shit to begin with. I remember when the first thought of a rope came up, and I remember it being of a noose that could be used to trap mercs. That is shit. A rope that would be used for coop came of that, which is basically the same as the current way, which equates to shit. Using a rope to set up and trip people is shit. These spies have access to cameras with gas that knocks people out and they still fall back to a rope?
In my mind, the merc sets up defenses, the spy infiltrates and outsmarts the merc. I understand that spies use spy bullets and cameras, but not once have I thought that a rope would have been a greater advantage than a spy camera.
The ranking system is dumb as no one wants to play for rank. I liked how CT was always a random chance of getting good or bad players. It varied a lot. I do not want to play for 100 hours and snap 28 necks in 6 games to get a better shocker that will immobilize the mercs for an extra second. The reason it works in COD and TF2 is that it is the only way to keep millions of people playing, that smidgen of hope that the next unlock will make their penis bigger and their wins go up.
BTW, anyone who says that the idea should be tested is retarded. You first make sure the idea is good enough to be in the game. You use testing to see what smaller details work, like the knockout timer and the visibility of the object. Cameras are in the game for sure, but testing will be needed to check and see if the timer works out okay, if the noise is too loud, etc...
This mod started as a way for the members of the forums who wanted their old SvM back could get it, along with support from the devs for the community. Who gives a flying rats ass if there is more or less in the game? No one initially wanted much more than the game already had, besides better graphics and support for common problems. New gadgets are not a necessity.
P.S. I am not part of the group mentioned in the beginning. I am sure you can tell who is, primarily based on their attitude.
Quote from: Ion.67 on March 19, 2010, 12:36:57 AM
This mod started as a way for the members of the forums who wanted their old SvM back could get it, along with support from the devs for the community. Who gives a flying rats ass if there is more or less in the game? No one initially wanted much more than the game already had, besides better graphics and support for common problems. New gadgets are not a necessity.
P.S. I am not part of the group mentioned in the beginning. I am sure you can tell who is, primarily based on their attitude.
First of all, it is not a mod anymore. Second, the devs emphasize this is not an update, remake, or even a blend of PT or CT. It is not just a matter of better graphics and resolved problems. Different engine. Different game. Now does this mean it is a completely different idea? No, but it is still a different game. Third, the devs take all suggestions into consideration whether they are good or bad ones. Like they said before, it is worth 100 bad ideas to get 1 good one. So how are they going to find any good ideas without suggestions? Although new gadgets are not a necessity, they have not ruled out the possibility so therefore it is still up for debate. Fourth, a dev member himself (tigaer) said he wanted certain ideas tested.
Cronky, along with the words "succinct" and "concise," recommend looking up the definition to "hypocrite."
Gadget rewards and too many gadgets in the game are two separate issues; I am not against gadget rewards because it results in too many or too few options for the player.
PS always was, and still is, a remake of CT with modifications to fix the dozens of issues that the game had. There's a thread somewhere around here with the mission statement on it; I suggest you read it. All the claims of separating PS from CT/PT by the devs are just CYA measures so they don't get sued.
Also, all you "just make these stupid gadget" guys fail to realize that this
mod er game is being made by people in their spare time. Good luck convincing them to spend the hundreds of man-hours necessary to even create your stupid ideas in the
mod er game.
Quote"Sure it's easy to think of extreme examples to support either case, but if the devs are motivated enough I think they can reach a sweet spot."
Different situation. We weren't discussing whether removing gadget refills at death was fundamentally wrong. Ion seems to think so; my response to him would not be to just "test it." What you and I were discussing is if it would be too easy or difficult for the mercs to cover all their bases. That requires testing because there are a lot of variables that can be easily altered such as time it takes, how loud it is, etc.
The only reason I suggested it is because of the problem of mercs committing suicide for equipment and spies not giving thought to the use of their equipment. This makes the end-game difficult when their mines and traps are concentrated around only 2-3 objectives vs. 5-6. Add in double backpack, and for all practical purposes you have mercs with infinite equipment. On the spy end, I don't believe a player should be rewarded for spamming smokes/cams by being given a complete refill upon death. If Ion disagrees that this is a problem, then the discussion is over; we will have to agree to disagree. There is no "oh, let's test this" because the issue is no longer a question of balance, but rather a question of design.
A rope is fundamentally flawed. There's simply no use to the item whatsoever. It doesn't solve any "problem" within the context of the game; the disagreement is over design, not balance.
@ion: <3 <3 <3
Quote from: Ion.67 on March 19, 2010, 12:36:57 AM
You are retarded. There are certain people on these boards that generally shoot ideas down right away that are dumb, and they have reason to. They have been part of this since the beginning and have played CT and PT a whole lot. Basically, you registered 2 months ago and are flaming people for thinking your idea is wrong. Well, I barely played PT and played CT a fair share but can still tell you that your rope idea is terribly dumb. When someone comes up with a decent idea I am sure it will be okay and everyone will be happy.
No one wants to refine your idea because your idea is shit to begin with. I remember when the first thought of a rope came up, and I remember it being of a noose that could be used to trap mercs. That is shit. A rope that would be used for coop came of that, which is basically the same as the current way, which equates to shit. Using a rope to set up and trip people is shit. These spies have access to cameras with gas that knocks people out and they still fall back to a rope?
In my mind, the merc sets up defenses, the spy infiltrates and outsmarts the merc. I understand that spies use spy bullets and cameras, but not once have I thought that a rope would have been a greater advantage than a spy camera.
The ranking system is dumb as no one wants to play for rank. I liked how CT was always a random chance of getting good or bad players. It varied a lot. I do not want to play for 100 hours and snap 28 necks in 6 games to get a better shocker that will immobilize the mercs for an extra second. The reason it works in COD and TF2 is that it is the only way to keep millions of people playing, that smidgen of hope that the next unlock will make their penis bigger and their wins go up.
BTW, anyone who says that the idea should be tested is retarded. You first make sure the idea is good enough to be in the game. You use testing to see what smaller details work, like the knockout timer and the visibility of the object. Cameras are in the game for sure, but testing will be needed to check and see if the timer works out okay, if the noise is too loud, etc...
This mod started as a way for the members of the forums who wanted their old SvM back could get it, along with support from the devs for the community. Who gives a flying rats ass if there is more or less in the game? No one initially wanted much more than the game already had, besides better graphics and support for common problems. New gadgets are not a necessity.
P.S. I am not part of the group mentioned in the beginning. I am sure you can tell who is, primarily based on their attitude.
I would HOPE that in a Perfect world your opinion and it's validity on the forum wouldn't be in direct correlation with how long you've been sitting on this forum. The idea that I've only been on here for 2 months, and someone else has been here longer doesn't mean they are any less wrong in their treatment of opinions.
The Rope idea is one of MANY. The idea is, "Well the first one has an obvious reason why it doesn't work... Is there anything way it could? Is there something it could solve?". After all the options are pushed away, the Rope won't be discussed about. It's up for debate right now on what it COULD do, if you don't like where it's going... SUGGEST SOMETHING ELSE! It's a SUGGESTION thread, not a "Put Concrete Ideas in that aren't subject to change". Saying something like, "It'd break the game, also it's useless" and leaving it at that doesn't progress anything.
Seems like you haven't played TF2, or CoD. TF2 at least doesn't give you an UPGRADE to your current weapons, but it a DIFFERENT weapon to play with that has Similar Attributes. In PS terms... It's like the difference between the Merc's Grenade, and Phosphorus Grenade. Both are grenades, both get shot, but both do something different.
Pretty sure there were Ranks in CT also, just no one PLAYED ranked games. For whatever reason, the rank was just for people that STRICTLY played for stats alone. Stat Tracking would be a different way to do this as long as profiles are available from within the game. Extra step to check your opponents skills, but if you didn't HAVE to do that. It'd be completely legit to give some kind of notification that they didn't just start playing. (Dummy/Smurf Accounts are still possible with this, but you can't rid yourself of those)
@Spekkio
I think I'm being perfectly reasonable with the amount of text I'm spitting out now (To Specific People). Unless you REALLY want a 3 page essay again.
You didn't touch on the OTHER parts of why I used the word "Hypocritical", so I assume those were alright.
As for why you were against Rewards I'll admit I just plopped you into the same group as Rocket, and I <3 U. They were separate ideas, but in the context of TOO many gadgets; Rewards could solve it in a better reasoning than, "I think it's fun". Pacing comes up again, but I'll let you bring back reasons of why it will or will not work in terms of that. Again, none of the gadgets that are suggested give you an unfair advantage, as there is no gadget that is ONLY countered by another Gadget you wouldn't have.
If you believe this is a waste of our time, then don't post here. Simple enough! We will have a lot of fun coming up with new and different ideas just to past the fucking time. Who cares? We are going on about things we would LIKE to see. Not that we think are for sure going to be in the game. If the devs did decide to use one of the ideas... WHOOPIE. The premise is that it's great to see ideas that people can come up with.(Look I made the text smaller so it looks like it's less :)
QuoteAs for why you were against Rewards I'll admit I just plopped you into the same group as Rocket, and I <3 U. They were separate ideas, but in the context of TOO many gadgets; Rewards could solve it in a better reasoning than, "I think it's fun". Pacing comes up again, but I'll let you bring back reasons of why it will or will not work in terms of that. Again, none of the gadgets that are suggested give you an unfair advantage, as there is no gadget that is ONLY countered by another Gadget you wouldn't have.
Gadget rewards does not solve any problem about too many gadgets; it merely prolongs it until everyone plays long enough to get all their unlocks (or figures out how to hack the .ini, which is what I would do).
I like how Cronky still hasn't given up on the fucking unlocks despite every single person who posts here saying they don't want them.
Very dedicated.
Hey Cronky, have you considered testing being less dedicated, maybe? That's a suggestion, so you have to like it. Or at least not dislike it.
LoL...
But remember, noop, the forums are "almost unanimously" for unlocks!
Okay, I did play TF2 for a while. Not hardcore, mainly because I think playing games without friends isn't much fun. Well, CT with randoms was fun, cause I was a dick sometimes and it turned me on, but in multiplayer games with over 4 people it just loses interest fast. Now COD on the other hand... I play that quite a lot. I have it on the PS3, which I have friends on. It is pretty clear that in that game, the weapons aren't better, just different. Claymore is way different than a blast shield, I get that. But, why even do that? In a game that should be based around tactics, why throw in the possibilities of not having enough equipment to win? If I had to unlock alarm snares I would be pissed. There will not be a mass amount of gadgets, and having 4 to start off with will make me angry.
QuotePretty sure there were Ranks in CT also, just no one PLAYED ranked games. For whatever reason, the rank was just for people that STRICTLY played for stats alone. Stat Tracking would be a different way to do this as long as profiles are available from within the game. Extra step to check your opponents skills, but if you didn't HAVE to do that. It'd be completely legit to give some kind of notification that they didn't just start playing. (Dummy/Smurf Accounts are still possible with this, but you can't rid yourself of those)
No one played ranked games because no one cared what their stats were. In COD it is fun I guess to look and see that my friends suck ass, but it really doesn't matter. If you want to compare stats like in TF2 then go for it. Comparing my stats against my self would be fine, as that system was kind of cool and was a good loading screen. It did not cause boosting since it was compared against yourself, and was merely there as a reference. Am I saying this should be in the game? Nope. Not at all. But if you want stats then have it be to yourself.
QuoteSeems like you haven't played TF2, or CoD. TF2 at least doesn't give you an UPGRADE to your current weapons, but it a DIFFERENT weapon to play with that has Similar Attributes. In PS terms... It's like the difference between the Merc's Grenade, and Phosphorus Grenade. Both are grenades, both get shot, but both do something different.
Yeah that makes sense, except for the only thing that makes those two items similar is the fact that they pop out of the bottom of the gun. One is for marking and tracking, while one is for killing. I liked the Phos. nade to be honest. For some reason the fact that the spy has to come out of hiding because it COULD be a real grenade, and the fact that there is a good chance that he will be covered in a green gas excited me. It may have not been the most useful gadget, sure, but it had a purpose and was incredibly useful if used in the correct manor. I do not really care if it's in the game, but if we are going with new gadgets, why not bring that one back?
QuoteI would HOPE that in a Perfect world your opinion and it's validity on the forum wouldn't be in direct correlation with how long you've been sitting on this forum. The idea that I've only been on here for 2 months, and someone else has been here longer doesn't mean they are any less wrong in their treatment of opinions.
No, people with more experience are more qualified than you.
QuoteIf you believe this is a waste of our time, then don't post here. Simple enough! We will have a lot of fun coming up with new and different ideas just to past the fucking time. Who cares? We are going on about things we would LIKE to see. Not that we think are for sure going to be in the game. If the devs did decide to use one of the ideas... WHOOPIE. The premise is that it's great to see ideas that people can come up with.
Waste your time on something useful. Think of ways to make the game more fun without adding in useless additions. My suggestion of best 2 of 3 games doesn't take much to implement. It is simple, requires a tiny bit of manpower, and could possibly make the game more fun. Talk about that. Why wouldn't it be good? It would make games take a while but not many people are okay with only playing one round of spy/merc and having the other team quitting anyway.
@Noop
Only bringing back Unlocks when the situation could benefit from it. Think too many gadgets are going into the game? Then hold some back and give it to the people slowly, that way they aren't overrun with 20 gadgets, instead gaining a new gadget every few hours of gameplay. No one loses as long as you actually THINK of what to hold back. Not just throwing anything into the vault and locking it up.
@Spekkio
Sorry to break it to you, but STON3's Challenges are different than my unlocks... THUS why he is complaining why my Unlocks are in his topic. Get your facts straight before you voice your opinions. Which you seem to do a lot. :)
@Ion
A.) Time on these forums means nothing in comparison to opinion. I'd suggest you learn that and stop riding the "Veterans of this forums" Dicks.
B.) Games with a partner are fun. I personally played CT with the same partner the WHOLE time I played. That's how I can see this game as fun, instead of worrying about all the technical crap that Spek keeps bringing up (Not thinking technical ALL the time mind you. I haven't suggested the Spy get a Rocket Launcher, or anything to THAT extent). Camnet was fun with a partner you knew, tactics were made in time, and through it all.... I actually had fun instead of it being a competitive atmosphere 24/7.
C.)The point of Variation doesn't mean it's constrained to the same exact abilities of it's origin. Grenade and Phos. still hold true because they are both grenades. Both act the same, but are for a different purpose. Such as the difference between Sticky Cams, and my idea for Network Cams.
D.)Spend my time on things that are more useful? You're idea is already in the game. Revenge mode... +1... Good work! Best 2 out of 3 mode I'd call it. I could imagine it in there, but there would need to be a reason for someone to not just... Quit. Why focus on the subtlest of changes when we can actually think of something that would be different and fun! Trip rope, balanced or not would be fun. Obviously it would be balanced to BE in the game, but in concept right now. It just sounds entertaining. Co-op Gadgets would be fun. SvM Lacked new ideas even once it's third iteration came out.
E.) It was never said that ALL the gadgets were held back with the Rewards idea. Just the new Variations that are only there to give the player more to play with (Such as all these new ideas). I want to emphasize the word Variation because I don't mean to say that there would ever be a time when someone wouldn't have an ability. Such as:
If a Hologram deal was made and it ran in a straight line, Bam. That would be in.
If there was a Variation that Recorded a small segment of your movements then replayed them. Bam that could be held back. It's a small variation that accomplishes the same job in a different way. No one loses the ability to make a Hologram, but with more time spent on the game, they could get another Hologram that could suit their fancy better, OR be useless to them (Cause not everyone uses Every Gadget). In other words... TF2.
Why don't we make phos nades have no timer for explosion? They should detonate on impact. If you are a merc caught by a flashbang, then you should shoot a phosphorous nade. The spy wouldn't have time to react and dodge the nade. He'd get covered and be easy to track down. More use for phosphorous = good for me.
See? A small, but original change that could benefit gameplay.
Quote from: FarleyFan on March 19, 2010, 07:11:52 AM
Why don't we make phos nades have no timer for explosion? They should detonate on impact. If you are a merc caught by a flashbang, then you should shoot a phosphorous nade. The spy wouldn't have time to react and dodge the nade. He'd get covered and be easy to track down. More use for phosphorous = good for me.
I could see that idea working. My only real concern with it being that it seems like the Phosphorus would then become a Close Quarters-only gadget. Cause if you shoot it at a target far away and miss then it was wasted. Really that just depends on skill, but just a slight concern.
Giving a button option to make it timed or contact explosive seems plausible to alleviate that situation. Could work with other grenades too. Giving more control over your grenade play. Then again though, if you could choose whether or not it blew up on contact it would take away the uniqueness of the Phos. and it's Contact explosion ability.
Either way would work in the end. People would fall into useful patterns of use if implemented in either fashion.
What about an 'explode on contact if it's a Spy, or if a Spy is in explosion range' and else it's timed?
That could work also, but then again I believe (if I'm not mistaken) that it deviates from Farley's original intent of the new action.
Since his thought was to make a Splash even when you are under attack. If flashbanged like he said, you would be hard pressed to actually hit the spy. Thus the intent he was going for as a scare/countermeasure tactic (Again, unless I'm mistaken) would be lost. Not completely mind you since it would still blow up, but not instantly.
Would still be applicable your way though, since again people will learn to play with whatever you give them. Each of them being equally as workable as another if made.
Edit: Didn't see that part about "Within a certain Range" part. That seems like it might be hard to do, or tough to implement from my limited point of view pertaining to making games work. If using Range as a trigger, would you be able to differentiate between range when a wall is in the way? Or a similar situation (Perhaps if it was in the air near the spy, would it blow up? Or would you have to wait for it to touch the ground before it took that information in)
QuoteA.) Time on these forums means nothing in comparison to opinion. I'd suggest you learn that and stop riding the "Veterans of this forums" Dicks.
Now... I don't even understand what you mean. Are you calling the veterans dicks? Are you calling me a dick and them dicks? Am I riding their dicks? You should try and make your insults at least understandable.
QuoteGames with a partner are fun. I personally played CT with the same partner the WHOLE time I played. That's how I can see this game as fun, instead of worrying about all the technical crap that Spek keeps bringing up (Not thinking technical ALL the time mind you. I haven't suggested the Spy get a Rocket Launcher, or anything to THAT extent). Camnet was fun with a partner you knew, tactics were made in time, and through it all.... I actually had fun instead of it being a competitive atmosphere 24/7.
Sure, have fun if you lose. But I don't want to lose, I don't ever go into a game with the mindset of "I want to lose." Winning is fun to me. So put stuff in the game that assists with that. I am not super competitive, I don't get pissed when I lose, but I don't like it. Camnet worked, but it was pointless. Maybe you should be able to control the normal cameras in the game... I don't know.
QuoteC.)The point of Variation doesn't mean it's constrained to the same exact abilities of it's origin. Grenade and Phos. still hold true because they are both grenades. Both act the same, but are for a different purpose. Such as the difference between Sticky Cams, and my idea for Network Cams.
Why not just combine them? In the early beta of CT that was how it worked, and I liked it. The last sticky cam was always the one it went to when you hit the button. Maybe the last one shot should be the only one that has gas. That way, you can use them as a network OR an offensive/defensive tool.
QuoteD.)Spend my time on things that are more useful? You're idea is already in the game. Revenge mode... +1... Good work! Best 2 out of 3 mode I'd call it. I could imagine it in there, but there would need to be a reason for someone to not just... Quit. Why focus on the subtlest of changes when we can actually think of something that would be different and fun! Trip rope, balanced or not would be fun. Obviously it would be balanced to BE in the game, but in concept right now. It just sounds entertaining. Co-op Gadgets would be fun. SvM Lacked new ideas even once it's third iteration came out.
First of all, revenge mode wasn't overly used and it was just 2 games. This idea would declare a clear winner of those matches. Secondly, I have a feeling the player base of this game is no't going to be huge, and most players will not be asses... Most of us do not quit often. You know what, maybe we should track stats. I think it would be hilarious if the only stat tracked was how many games you have backed out of. Thirdly, having gadgets in the game because they are fun is dumb. Co-op gadgets...why would people take them unless they played with a partner? They wouldn't. Plus, they would have to be way more powerful than tripping a merc and climbing to a spot we can already get to. Then, partners would always stay together and be even extra powerful. When I said staying together should be ideal, I didn't mean that they will have gadgets or special opportunities to exploit that, but merely that the games base should have that be in its basic parameters.
QuoteE.) It was never said that ALL the gadgets were held back with the Rewards idea. Just the new Variations that are only there to give the player more to play with (Such as all these new ideas). I want to emphasize the word Variation because I don't mean to say that there would ever be a time when someone wouldn't have an ability. Such as:
There aren't many gadgets to chose from with holding back. If we have 20 gadgets on each side I will kill myself. People will boost for them. Pro's will boost for them because they don't want to be limited. I don't want to start out with half my arsenal. Hell no.
Quote from: Cronky on March 19, 2010, 02:08:26 PM
Edit: Didn't see that part about "Within a certain Range" part. That seems like it might be hard to do, or tough to implement from my limited point of view pertaining to making games work. If using Range as a trigger, would you be able to differentiate between range when a wall is in the way? Or a similar situation (Perhaps if it was in the air near the spy, would it blow up? Or would you have to wait for it to touch the ground before it took that information in)
It has to hit something first, be it a Spy or a wall or a static mesh (model). Then it checks if there's a visible Spy in a certain range. Doable in a few lines of code. The mines and security camera work somewhat the same.
Quote from: Ion.67 on March 19, 2010, 02:29:30 PM
QuoteA.) Time on these forums means nothing in comparison to opinion. I'd suggest you learn that and stop riding the "Veterans of this forums" Dicks.
Now... I don't even understand what you mean. Are you calling the veterans dicks? Are you calling me a dick and them dicks? Am I riding their dicks? You should try and make your insults at least understandable.
QuoteGames with a partner are fun. I personally played CT with the same partner the WHOLE time I played. That's how I can see this game as fun, instead of worrying about all the technical crap that Spek keeps bringing up (Not thinking technical ALL the time mind you. I haven't suggested the Spy get a Rocket Launcher, or anything to THAT extent). Camnet was fun with a partner you knew, tactics were made in time, and through it all.... I actually had fun instead of it being a competitive atmosphere 24/7.
Sure, have fun if you lose. But I don't want to lose, I don't ever go into a game with the mindset of "I want to lose." Winning is fun to me. So put stuff in the game that assists with that. I am not super competitive, I don't get pissed when I lose, but I don't like it. Camnet worked, but it was pointless. Maybe you should be able to control the normal cameras in the game... I don't know.
QuoteC.)The point of Variation doesn't mean it's constrained to the same exact abilities of it's origin. Grenade and Phos. still hold true because they are both grenades. Both act the same, but are for a different purpose. Such as the difference between Sticky Cams, and my idea for Network Cams.
Why not just combine them? In the early beta of CT that was how it worked, and I liked it. The last sticky cam was always the one it went to when you hit the button. Maybe the last one shot should be the only one that has gas. That way, you can use them as a network OR an offensive/defensive tool.
QuoteD.)Spend my time on things that are more useful? You're idea is already in the game. Revenge mode... +1... Good work! Best 2 out of 3 mode I'd call it. I could imagine it in there, but there would need to be a reason for someone to not just... Quit. Why focus on the subtlest of changes when we can actually think of something that would be different and fun! Trip rope, balanced or not would be fun. Obviously it would be balanced to BE in the game, but in concept right now. It just sounds entertaining. Co-op Gadgets would be fun. SvM Lacked new ideas even once it's third iteration came out.
First of all, revenge mode wasn't overly used and it was just 2 games. This idea would declare a clear winner of those matches. Secondly, I have a feeling the player base of this game is no't going to be huge, and most players will not be asses... Most of us do not quit often. You know what, maybe we should track stats. I think it would be hilarious if the only stat tracked was how many games you have backed out of. Thirdly, having gadgets in the game because they are fun is dumb. Co-op gadgets...why would people take them unless they played with a partner? They wouldn't. Plus, they would have to be way more powerful than tripping a merc and climbing to a spot we can already get to. Then, partners would always stay together and be even extra powerful. When I said staying together should be ideal, I didn't mean that they will have gadgets or special opportunities to exploit that, but merely that the games base should have that be in its basic parameters.
QuoteE.) It was never said that ALL the gadgets were held back with the Rewards idea. Just the new Variations that are only there to give the player more to play with (Such as all these new ideas). I want to emphasize the word Variation because I don't mean to say that there would ever be a time when someone wouldn't have an ability. Such as:
There aren't many gadgets to chose from with holding back. If we have 20 gadgets on each side I will kill myself. People will boost for them. Pro's will boost for them because they don't want to be limited. I don't want to start out with half my arsenal. Hell no.
A.)Wrote the insult while riding a very nice buzz. Sorry if it came out a little sketchy, but after a nice little bit o' research I notice You've been here since 2007. I see how the insult could be misconstrued with such info at hand, so let me re-iterate.
Stop stroking your E-Peen because you think Time on Forum == Weight of Opinion. :)
B.)I have to wonder why everyone seems to connect, "Playing for fun" and "Losing" in the same area. Winning is fun universally. You don't PLAY to lose, but you don't have to PLAY solely to Win. Games are an entertainment. This game being a great example of a perfect situation because if the game lacks fun, they can change it. Fun isn't equal to how good you are at a game (For everyone...), if that was the case then nobody would play Multiplayer Games... Because you're bound to find people that are better than you. You can still make and think up tactics while having fun with the game. You can still Win all of your games.
I kept with a constant partner because he wanted to play the game for fun too. We got better as we played more. Not everyone does this, but I recommend it. The game becomes much funnier when you don't HAVE to take is seriously because you know your partner well enough to know what need be done.
If Camnet was pointless then HOORAY, we have an excellent example of why extra gadgets CAN be added. (Note the word Can, not Will) I do like the idea that Normal Cameras = Camnet Cameras. Just makes too much sense. Though I understand that if that was the case, either there would be a lack of cameras or TOO many places to be able to see. Being able to take them out with the gun though would be cool, but perhaps give away positions too easily.
C.)Sticky Cams and Network Cams COULD be combined. That's why it was just a Suggestion. I'd like to see more gadgets take a different shape then the exact same thing we've seen before. I just suggested a new gadget version of it, cause... Who would want to waste 2+ Sticky Cams and lose their ability to Gas with any of them?
D.)Revenge mode wasn't used and that is a good point to your option you are proposing. Why would someone use it when they could just as easily just play the game? Making it Revenge Mode +1 is saying that the people playing are Committed to 3 games. There is nothing wrong with just quitting in this idea so far. The Stat Tracking for it would be incentive not to do it (Which I like), but maybe also add something like a... "Suspension" of playing games if they back out of... 3 or so games with that option turned on. That's a drastic move right there, but would give a reason for your idea to work.
E.)Lastly, the variation reward isn't perfect. There will ALWAYS be people that will Boost if given the option to. Always be people that will feel that they NEED said items because their gameplay is "Ruined" by lack of options. That's the extreme. There will also be people who will just play the game. Enjoying a new gadget when/if they get it, or... Not Caring about it. Obviously things that were held back would only be held back if they were just "Extra". Thought WOULD go into exactly what would or wouldn't. PLUS I only use Gadgets instead of say... Skins, because it's more dramatic with something you can actually use. TF2... I was more excited to get the Huntsman for the Sniper than I was getting the Hat.
Quote from: frvge on March 19, 2010, 02:52:57 PM
Quote from: Cronky on March 19, 2010, 02:08:26 PM
Edit: Didn't see that part about "Within a certain Range" part. That seems like it might be hard to do, or tough to implement from my limited point of view pertaining to making games work. If using Range as a trigger, would you be able to differentiate between range when a wall is in the way? Or a similar situation (Perhaps if it was in the air near the spy, would it blow up? Or would you have to wait for it to touch the ground before it took that information in)
It has to hit something first, be it a Spy or a wall or a static mesh (model). Then it checks if there's a visible Spy in a certain range. Doable in a few lines of code. The mines and security camera work somewhat the same.
That's very understandable then, and sounds like the best of all worlds.
When thinking back it seemed like CT (or perhaps PT) had something along the lines of this, but it felt like it was more of a glitchy grenade when that happened. Sometimes blowing up quickly, other times just bouncing off of Spies/Stuff and sitting till regular explosion time.
So as long as this idea played consistently the same, then I'd be just fine with it.
Network Cams sound ridiculously overpowered if used right. How about merging Hacking Bullets and Network Cams together, making it where in addition to hacking panels automatically, you can use Hacking Bullets on Camnets and be able to view through the affected cams (all cams with a Hacking Bullet on them) like a Merc for the duration of the Hacking Bullet. That would be a worthwhile and useable gadget in my opinion.
I like the idea!
Hacking bullets sounded a little weird when first brought up because of such limited use. In your thought would the Camnet that is Hacked be viewable by the Merc still? Or is it the "Spy's Camera" for the duration that the bullet lasts?
Keeping the limited number of hacking bullets a spy would have it seems like it may also be possible to have it able to hack other defenses. Not in the sense that you don't get caught by them, but in the sense that Mercs could also be caught by them. So you could get a heads up via motion detector if the Merc was coming up to you as an example. The Merc might not be Warned that he's been caught by it, but still the motion detector in the example would blink (Like it does when it catches a spy). So an aware Merc would know it's hacked.
Again keeping in mind that they dissipate naturally, can be shot, and also that you only have a certain amount of them. So you couldn't go around and just hack EVERYTHING.
Quote from: Cronky on March 19, 2010, 03:25:40 PM
I like the idea!
Hacking bullets sounded a little weird when first brought up because of such limited use. In your thought would the Camnet that is Hacked be viewable by the Merc still? Or is it the "Spy's Camera" for the duration that the bullet lasts?
Keeping the limited number of hacking bullets a spy would have it seems like it may also be possible to have it able to hack other defenses. Not in the sense that you don't get caught by them, but in the sense that Mercs could also be caught by them. So you could get a heads up via motion detector if the Merc was coming up to you as an example. The Merc might not be Warned that he's been caught by it, but still the motion detector in the example would blink (Like it does when it catches a spy). So an aware Merc would know it's hacked.
Again keeping in mind that they dissipate naturally, can be shot, and also that you only have a certain amount of them. So you couldn't go around and just hack EVERYTHING.
I think the Merc should get static when he tries to view the camera, so then he has to go shoot off the bullet. I think giving the Hacking Bullets too many uses will make them pretty overpowered when hacking an objective, kind of how the Network Cams would be, you could basically know where the Mercs are 90% of the time and hack accordingly.
Static is good. Shows an aware Merc that something is up. Also gives the Spy a good diversion if he wants to make the Mercs THINK they are in that area.
And yeah, I was just thinking of how the Bullet could work into more stuff.
The idea of hacking defenses (and Network Cams too) merely being passive ways to get to know your surroundings. When it comes to actually fighting the Mercs/hacking (blowing up, or extracting) the objectives you'd have an upper hand knowing WHERE they were, but at a loss of a gadget slot or two in the means of HOW to get them. Since in the example of Network Cams, it wouldn't have the Gas. Meaning it would be purely for surveillance.
Can someone explain was the advantage of a phosphorus grenade would be? I know it shoots out white phosphorous to produce a smoke screen and a potentially lethal explosion, but what makes it any different or unique compared to the standard nades we already have? I don't really have an idea of what this would look like...
Well Curdymilk I thought that it would be nice if they blew up on impact with the ground, a wall, or a spy. The spies wouldn't really be able to dodge them easily if the merc was a good shot. Instead of firing a frag while in a fight with a spy you could launch a spy. If he escapes you can easily track him down. Also, they can still be used as decoy frag nades. The spy will likely try to leave the area when he sees the phos nade coming his way, and hopefully the gas cloud will be made big enough so that he will have a hard time not getting tagged by the gas.
Quote from: tigaer on March 19, 2010, 03:17:22 PM
Network Cams sound ridiculously overpowered if used right. How about merging Hacking Bullets and Network Cams together, making it where in addition to hacking panels automatically, you can use Hacking Bullets on Camnets and be able to view through the affected cams (all cams with a Hacking Bullet on them) like a Merc for the duration of the Hacking Bullet. That would be a worthwhile and useable gadget in my opinion.
I think that's a great idea. When I first brought up network cams I couldn't think of too many uses. Maybe if you shoot one on a merc it gives them a temporary system mal? It could be longer than the ss head shot system mal.
Maybe that could be too op. Here's what I'm thinking with the hack darts.
-Instantly hack wall panels
-Manually hack terminals from a distance, there is a max range - have to maintain a view of the terminal, goes slower than usual
-Hack bullets allow you to look through a camnet or even have security cams give you intruder alerts.
With all these uses I'm thinking that you may only be allowed to have 3 at a time.
Quote from: FarleyFan on March 19, 2010, 11:34:58 PM
Well Curdymilk I thought that it would be nice if they blew up on impact with the ground, a wall, or a spy. The spies wouldn't really be able to dodge them easily if the merc was a good shot. Instead of firing a frag while in a fight with a spy you could launch a spy. If he escapes you can easily track him down. Also, they can still be used as decoy frag nades. The spy will likely try to leave the area when he sees the phos nade coming his way, and hopefully the gas cloud will be made big enough so that he will have a hard time not getting tagged by the gas.
I lol'd.
Anyway, I don't think them hackig terminals would be good, aswell as hacking panels instantly, it should double the duration that it would take to hack normally. The system mal sounds interesting, could be pretty overpowered for aggro spies though.
Jammer
Equips like camo but is like gas mask with limited energy. Makes it where you can't be detected by MT or EMF aswell as passive defenses as long as equipped and activated. Possibly undetectable by mines/spy traps too. Counter all you damn MT whores, even though I'm guilty lol.
Reeks like being overpowered. What's the downside?
Quote from: tigaer on March 20, 2010, 12:07:45 AM
Quote from: FarleyFan on March 19, 2010, 11:34:58 PM
Well Curdymilk I thought that it would be nice if they blew up on impact with the ground, a wall, or a spy. The spies wouldn't really be able to dodge them easily if the merc was a good shot. Instead of firing a frag while in a fight with a spy you could launch a spy. If he escapes you can easily track him down. Also, they can still be used as decoy frag nades. The spy will likely try to leave the area when he sees the phos nade coming his way, and hopefully the gas cloud will be made big enough so that he will have a hard time not getting tagged by the gas.
I lol'd.
Anyway, I don't think them hackig terminals would be good, aswell as hacking panels instantly, it should double the duration that it would take to hack normally. The system mal sounds interesting, could be pretty overpowered for aggro spies though.
I was like wut? Then i lol'd. Hard.You'd have to manually hack terminals with a minigame on your armband. Like bioshock or something. Remember CT's single player hacking mini game? Maybe something like that. It also takes double time to hack the terminal and you can only hack 5 seconds off of it with one dart. So, it takes 10 seconds for a 5 second hack.
It's not like it's terribly hard to hack panels and get away with it. I don't see a big problem with the darts insta-hacking panels.
The jammer idea left a bad taste in my mouth after DA. The idea of a jammer just sort of makes me weary. You know? I see what you are describing is kind of different the only problem is that I don't know what the drawback is.
Quote from: frvge on March 20, 2010, 01:22:55 AM
Reeks like being overpowered. What's the downside?
Running out.
Just kidding, could make noise, like consistent pings on the SD. But what would really be overpowered about it? You can't shoot, you can't run, and you have a limited amount of unrechargable energy like the Mercs gas mask. Also, just to clarify, it's not a droppable gadget, it's equippable ala camo.
Unrechargable energy-based gadgets are generally bad for Spies IMO.
I don't see how it should differ from Spies and Mercs, gas mask would be immensely over powered with rechargable energy, and so would a gadget like this. It has it's uses, but also has limitations by it's energy.
Gasmasks cant be recharged as far as I know. Batteries can.
Besides, else it wouldn't make sense with the taser and the rest of the electrical gadgets, like camo.
I'm confused in that last post. It will be exactly like the gas mask, having limited unrechargable energy, but will act like camo, as in, you can't run or use tazer.
Also, what about the idea of Adrenaline Shots? They would give you a temporary 50% health boost that drains over time. Might be useful on maps like Polar Base and Aqua where you generally don't have full health the majority of the time.
Also, I'm postively, 100% against mini games in PS. Never. Ever.
Quote from: FarleyFan on March 20, 2010, 01:25:48 AM
You'd have to manually hack terminals with a minigame on your armband. Like bioshock or something. Remember CT's single player hacking mini game? Maybe something like that.
Why do we need a minigame? We've already got a full game. Minigames are not needed.
maybe we should just test it anyway woo let's test everything wooooo
Quote from: frvge on March 20, 2010, 01:40:01 AM
Gasmasks cant be recharged as far as I know. Batteries can.
If you're talking about "real life..."
Air filtering masks never need to be recharged. They just need to swap the filter every so often. Air supplying masks have an associated oxygen tank which can quite easily be recharged.
Quote from: tigaer on March 20, 2010, 01:45:17 AM
Also, what about the idea of Adrenaline Shots? They would give you a temporary 50% health boost that drains over time. Might be useful on maps like Polar Base and Aqua where you generally don't have full health the majority of the time.
They sound decent and pretty simple to incorporate. However, they should not be allowed to be injected when a spy is poisoned because then the spy could just use his adrenaline shots to buy time when getting to a medkit. Also, they should be disabled from use when being shot at because they the merc has to shoot him forever just to kill him. Maybe a 2-3 second timer of not being hit by a bullet and then it can be used again.
We could have a pretty solid list with smoke, chaff, flash, cam, ARM, HBS, decoy, camo, shock wires (testable), hacking bullets (testable), adrenaline shots (testable), and jammer (testable).
The mercs could choose frags, mines, proxy sensor, rf-tracker, mask, BP, flares, tazer, camnet, and phosphorus nades (testable).
This is my dream gadget selection! This is 12 gadgets for the spy and 10 for the merc, and it should be plenty of options with wide varieties. It keeps the foundation but adds a little flavor without over-doing it. ;D. The gameplay can stay realistic without silliness.
QuoteStop stroking your E-Peen because you think Time on Forum == Weight of Opinion.
I am not stroking my "E-peen" mainly because I am not talking about myself.
QuoteI have to wonder why everyone seems to connect, "Playing for fun" and "Losing" in the same area. Winning is fun universally. You don't PLAY to lose, but you don't have to PLAY solely to Win.
I don't recall ever liking losing. I can have fun and lose, but I want to win at everything I do, including games. Playing basketball is fun, but way more fun when we win. Winning = fun = good = point of game
QuoteIf Camnet was pointless then HOORAY, we have an excellent example of why extra gadgets CAN be added. (Note the word Can, not Will)
Because UBI did it? Great example.
QuoteI do like the idea that Normal Cameras = Camnet Cameras. Just makes too much sense. Though I understand that if that was the case, either there would be a lack of cameras or TOO many places to be able to see. Being able to take them out with the gun though would be cool, but perhaps give away positions too easily.
Then put more cameras in. There goes the lack of cameras. Camnet is already able to be taken out with a gun AFAIK, so what changes?
QuoteSticky Cams and Network Cams COULD be combined. That's why it was just a Suggestion. I'd like to see more gadgets take a different shape then the exact same thing we've seen before. I just suggested a new gadget version of it, cause... Who would want to waste 2+ Sticky Cams and lose their ability to Gas with any of them?
You don't need to see the entire map, and shouldn't be able to. At a max of five cameras, that covers a good area of the map. The notion happens to be that I can generally guess where both mercs are and be right. I do not need cameras to show me, although they would be an asset. The other thing this does is make the sticky camers sole use of camming the merc less important in the overall scheme, since a lot of cameras won't be able to gas them. Cameras will be more of a recon tool, which isn't a bad thing.
QuoteRevenge mode wasn't used and that is a good point to your option you are proposing. Why would someone use it when they could just as easily just play the game? Making it Revenge Mode +1 is saying that the people playing are Committed to 3 games. There is nothing wrong with just quitting in this idea so far. The Stat Tracking for it would be incentive not to do it (Which I like), but maybe also add something like a... "Suspension" of playing games if they back out of... 3 or so games with that option turned on. That's a drastic move right there, but would give a reason for your idea to work.
Do not suspend games. That would be idiotic. Just know that the community will be filled with less idiots than it used to be. Stats and restrictions aren't necessary. I don't want to be compared with others by the way. I don't need to see that their neck breaks exceed mine.
QuoteLastly, the variation reward isn't perfect. There will ALWAYS be people that will Boost if given the option to. Always be people that will feel that they NEED said items because their gameplay is "Ruined" by lack of options. That's the extreme. There will also be people who will just play the game. Enjoying a new gadget when/if they get it, or... Not Caring about it. Obviously things that were held back would only be held back if they were just "Extra". Thought WOULD go into exactly what would or wouldn't. PLUS I only use Gadgets instead of say... Skins, because it's more dramatic with something you can actually use. TF2... I was more excited to get the Huntsman for the Sniper than I was getting the Hat.
It isn't needed, isn't wanted, isn't successful, and isn't smart.
QuoteNetwork Cams sound ridiculously overpowered if used right
Why? If you don't know where the mercs generally are something is wrong. I could immediately tell if the merc was in tea, or in the spa very easily. Not sure how. Maybe it was the various audio cues. Being able to track the mercs progress is not overpowered, as the spy SHOULD always try to know the mercs location. Spy bullets could be the same amount of overpowered, since they show where the merc is. If anything, they are automatic while cameras are manually. I see no issues.
QuoteHow about merging Hacking Bullets and Network Cams together, making it where in addition to hacking panels automatically, you can use Hacking Bullets on Camnets and be able to view through the affected cams (all cams with a Hacking Bullet on them) like a Merc for the duration of the Hacking Bullet. That would be a worthwhile and useable gadget in my opinion.
Any type of remote hacking is out. Hacking is a risk that you have to prepare to defend yourself for. A remote hack is dumb, it didn't work in DA and was hated on. Why implement it in this game?
I have always been a fan of buffing alarm snares. I believe that they should have a button to make noises, kind of like a toggle. What if the default for an alarm snare was not to set off cameras, but to make the camnet version of them (assuming the camnet is put into cameras) display a clean hallway, kind of like in Oceans 11 and similar movies? Then a button toggle could set off an alarm. Is there anything wrong with this? I don't think so. It's purpose is expanded from noise maker to a general merc tricker.
QuoteThe idea of hacking defenses (and Network Cams too) merely being passive ways to get to know your surroundings. When it comes to actually fighting the Mercs/hacking (blowing up, or extracting) the objectives you'd have an upper hand knowing WHERE they were, but at a loss of a gadget slot or two in the means of HOW to get them.
Exactly!
QuoteCan someone explain was the advantage of a phosphorus grenade would be? I know it shoots out white phosphorous to produce a smoke screen and a potentially lethal explosion, but what makes it any different or unique compared to the standard nades we already have? I don't really have an idea of what this would look like...
No lethality at all. They simply look like frags but expload into a cloud of gas, which covers the spy, lighting him up on EMF while leaving green footprints that also light up on EMF. It makes following the spy quite easy, and will generally end with the spy dying. It could use some improvements though. Maybe it could also...no idea. Sorry.
QuoteAlso, what about the idea of Adrenaline Shots? They would give you a temporary 50% health boost that drains over time. Might be useful on maps like Polar Base and Aqua where you generally don't have full health the majority of the time.
How about no. That does not sound appealing at all. Instant health for the spy when the spy is rewarded from being stealthy by not being seen or heard. Encouraging aggro is not something that is generally thought of as good.
QuoteWe could have a pretty solid list with smoke, chaff, flash, cam, ARM, HBS, decoy, camo, shock wires (testable), hacking bullets (testable), adrenaline shots (testable), and jammer (testable).
smoke, chaff, flash, cam, ARM(what is this), HBS,
decoy, camo,
shock wires (testable),
hacking bullets (testable),
adrenaline shots (testable), and
jammer (testable). You just threw testable behind ANY idea. YOU DO NOT TEST DUMB IDEAS. I don't care that a dev came up with some of these they are still shit. The general notion is that every completely new idea proposed so far sucks. Everyone one of these ideas completely alters the gameplay and should be thrown out. The most reasonable one of the bunch is the jammer, and it still sucks. It at least has a valid use. Every other one of these gadgets has a use that is against what the game is. Remote hacking is aids.
QuoteThe mercs could choose frags, mines, proxy sensor, rf-tracker, mask, BP, flares, tazer, camnet, and phosphorus nades (testable).
The mercs could choose frags, mines,
proxy sensor, rf-tracker(what?), mask, BP, flares, tazer, camnet, and phosphorus nades (testable). I am glad you didn't include every silly gadget spawned up in this list. Proxy sensor was the worst part of DA and reeked of giant rotten pussy. Not one person liked this with a brain. Run around until a ping occurs and scan the area. Nuh-uh.
Now I may sound like a party pooper who is hating on everyone but I am just using logic and being realistic. Some people should try it.
Quote from: Ion.67 on March 20, 2010, 04:44:10 AM
QuoteWe could have a pretty solid list with smoke, chaff, flash, cam, ARM, HBS, decoy, camo, shock wires (testable), hacking bullets (testable), adrenaline shots (testable), and jammer (testable).
smoke, chaff, flash, cam, ARM(what is this), HBS, decoy, camo, shock wires (testable), hacking bullets (testable), adrenaline shots (testable), and jammer (testable). You just threw testable behind ANY idea. YOU DO NOT TEST DUMB IDEAS. I don't care that a dev came up with some of these they are still shit. The general notion is that every completely new idea proposed so far sucks. Everyone one of these ideas completely alters the gameplay and should be thrown out. The most reasonable one of the bunch is the jammer, and it still sucks. It at least has a valid use. Every other one of these gadgets has a use that is against what the game is. Remote hacking is aids.
QuoteThe mercs could choose frags, mines, proxy sensor, rf-tracker, mask, BP, flares, tazer, camnet, and phosphorus nades (testable).
The mercs could choose frags, mines, proxy sensor, rf-tracker(what?), mask, BP, flares, tazer, camnet, and phosphorus nades (testable). I am glad you didn't include every silly gadget spawned up in this list. Proxy sensor was the worst part of DA and reeked of giant rotten pussy. Not one person liked this with a brain. Run around until a ping occurs and scan the area. Nuh-uh.
Wow man it's hard to believe that you don't even know what is already in the game. For how long you have been here I am surprised you are clueless about some of these gadgets. You either have a terrible memory or you have never actually read the characters section...
What are you referring to? ARM? I could go to the main page and look. I am assuming you mean the PS team changed the name from something normal to something sophisticated that no one has ever referred to it as.... let me take a look.
Oh yes I see it now. Spy bullet. Sorry. Guess no one has EVER called it that before. It is still a spy bullet, you using the new and less suable names doesn't make me dumb, it makes you a toolbag.
RF-Tracker can be a spy tracker right? Again, same case. Tool.
Quote from: Ion.67 on March 20, 2010, 05:14:20 AM
What are you referring to? ARM? I could go to the main page and look. I am assuming you mean the PS team changed the name from something normal to something sophisticated that no one has ever referred to it as.... let me take a look.
Oh yes I see it now. Spy bullet. Sorry. Guess no one has EVER called it that before. It is still a spy bullet, you using the new and less suable names doesn't make me dumb, it makes you a toolbag.
RF-Tracker can be a spy tracker right? Again, same case. Tool.
You had also crossed out proximity sensor and decoy which are already in the game...it just goes to show your narrow mind by just bashing everything...
Another case of toolism. The fact that the name DECOY was mentioned a page or two ago referring to a spy that would be a hologram...
Proximity sensor isn't a gadget. It was in DA by that name, and in CT it was the reticule. Unless something has changed, that is how it is.
I don't know what a "cam" is, it's now known only as the "Adhesive Cam." Get a clue. The fact that we are arguing over what words you poorly used to describe your ideal gadgets is moronic.
P.S. No I have never looked at that page before. I mainly rely on previous knowledge and community words and phrases, not the new name given by the devs. I doubt anyone will ever call the poison mine the Dioxide mine or whatever it is on the site.
Another note: I bash everything because every idea you have had so far has basically been shit.
Quote from: tigaer on March 20, 2010, 01:45:17 AM
Also, what about the idea of Adrenaline Shots? They would give you a temporary 50% health boost that drains over time. Might be useful on maps like Polar Base and Aqua where you generally don't have full health the majority of the time.
Don't we have regen for that? Like, built in? Or are you guys getting rid of that or something.
wububububu
Proximity Sensor is what the Presence Detector was in CT. It's a Merc-gadget. And yes, we use some different names.
Who said anything about hacking terminals automatically with hacking bullets?! I actually clearing said it DOESN'T do that. I said hacking PANELS, as in the panels you hack to open doors, as in NOT terminals. Adrenaline Shots wouldn't encourage aggro as much as you say, which is already being somewhat nerfed in PS. You really need to cut it out with the personal attacks dude, itt's uncalled for.
The gadget is too specific in function; it's absolutely useless in maps that don't have hacking panels.
Hrmmm....
Then don't bring it on those levels?
Course that's saying it's stuck to just hacking panels.
Quote from: Cronky on March 20, 2010, 05:00:13 PM
Hrmmm....
Then don't bring it on those levels?
Course that's saying it's stuck to just hacking panels.
This. And it's not stuck to just panels. We've already talked about security cams, cam net, and even I thought about terminals. There will be maps with those most likely - lol.
Quote from: Ambiguous Rocket on March 20, 2010, 01:46:24 AM
Quote from: FarleyFan on March 20, 2010, 01:25:48 AM
You'd have to manually hack terminals with a minigame on your armband. Like bioshock or something. Remember CT's single player hacking mini game? Maybe something like that.
Why do we need a minigame? We've already got a full game. Minigames are not needed.
maybe we should just test it anyway woo let's test everything wooooo
You are being a fag and you don't make sense.
Quote from: FarleyFan on March 20, 2010, 11:00:44 PM
Quote from: Cronky on March 20, 2010, 05:00:13 PM
Hrmmm....
Then don't bring it on those levels?
Course that's saying it's stuck to just hacking panels.
This. And it's not stuck to just panels. We've already talked about security cams, cam net, and even I thought about terminals. There will be maps with those most likely - lol.
Why do you need to hack security cams? You can just shoot them out, and you have HBS/Spy bullets/sticky cams for recon.
Camnet, maybe, but if they make good fixes to camnet then you won't need another gadget to counter it. As a general rule, hard counters in SvM are bad because it leads to gadget wars. That's why sticky cams/gasmask are pretty much mandatory items in CT.
This is an example of a silly idea...it's way too limited in its use. Even if it wasn't, remote hacking is teh ghey. Cronky, I don't know why you feel like you have to defend every gadget idea that gets posted on these forums. Most of them, including this one, are terrible.
I'm bringing this back up for opinion sake, but what do you think of my earlier concept of it being able to hack such things as Motion Detectors/Cams/Etc as a kind of... Reverse Alarm Snare. It points out to the spy that a merc is near.
The idea being that in the Motion Sensor example it would still Blink as if a Spy tripped it, but not warning the merc. Aware Mercs could know of it's existence, ignorant mercs would be given away for a duration by said defense.
More than a, "This Idea is Silly" is what I'm looking for. Basically I'm just asking for your opinion since I didn't hear one from you. ;D
And while there are multiple items that are for Recon, there is no such gadget that does this (Adding in Camnet Hacking Ability and Panel). It'd be another option that does the same job as those others, but differently. Such as the ones you already said do for eachother.
That doesn't mean it's NEEDED, but it would give people something Different.
Has anyone ever thought of a "sticky grenade" for the mercs? I am wondering if it would work to have a nade in which it sticks to its first object in contact and then has a 1-2 second timer before detonating. It could make a quiet beeping noise before it blows. It could be a useful option to go along with the normal nades that you bank off of other objects. You could make it explode the same way, but have a different color or style so it can be detected while in the air as different from the other kind. A smart spy could tell the difference if he sees coming. So what do you think of this? I want real answers not something like "this is a **** idea." If you disagree, at least say your reasoning.
Quote from: CurdyMilk on March 21, 2010, 06:06:31 AM
Has anyone ever thought of a "sticky grenade" for the mercs? I am wondering if it would work to have a nade in which it sticks to its first object in contact and then has a 1-2 second timer before detonating. It could make a quiet beeping noise before it blows. It could be a useful option to go along with the normal nades that you bank off of other objects. You could make it explode the same way, but have a different color or style so it can be detected while in the air as different from the other kind. A smart spy could tell the difference if he sees coming. So what do you think of this? I want real answers not something like "this is a **** idea." If you disagree, at least say your reasoning.
thats great and all but its sounds too TF2 ish O_o hence teh demo man :/.
Quote from: FarleyFan on March 20, 2010, 11:01:54 PM
You are being a fag and you don't make sense.
Well I think
you're being a fag.
But no really did anyone actually enjoy the hacking minigame in Bioshock? Or in any game ever? I mean they're kind of shit.
Quote from: Ambiguous Rocket on March 21, 2010, 06:15:53 AM
Quote from: FarleyFan on March 20, 2010, 11:01:54 PM
You are being a fag and you don't make sense.
Well I think you're being a fag.
Really?
That wasn't even a Correction...
You could do better than that.
;D
nobody cares, moron
Oh,
Just assumed someone would since you made it so clear.
MY BAD.
Cronky, I gave my opinion...twice. Here it is for the third time:
A panel hacking gadget is too narrow in function to be useful. Everything else you've mentioned regarding motion sensors and cameras can be accomplished by other means already present in the game.
Quote from: AgentX_003 on March 21, 2010, 06:15:16 AM
Quote from: CurdyMilk on March 21, 2010, 06:06:31 AM
Has anyone ever thought of a "sticky grenade" for the mercs? I am wondering if it would work to have a nade in which it sticks to its first object in contact and then has a 1-2 second timer before detonating. It could make a quiet beeping noise before it blows. It could be a useful option to go along with the normal nades that you bank off of other objects. You could make it explode the same way, but have a different color or style so it can be detected while in the air as different from the other kind. A smart spy could tell the difference if he sees coming. So what do you think of this? I want real answers not something like "this is a **** idea." If you disagree, at least say your reasoning.
thats great and all but its sounds too TF2 ish O_o hence teh demo man :/.
Haha, by the way, I liked TF2 and the demoman was my fav. I didn't really make the connection to that however. There are a few differences here. One is that this is automated detonation rather than manual. As soon as it hits, it has 1-2 seconds before exploding. Second, it would not be a glowing bright spike ball. It would longer and narrower with a tiny blinking red light that has a quiet beep as soon as it attaches. This way, the spy could hear it if he listened carefully even if he never saw it,. The places it could be useful is when trying to nade a spy on a ceiling or on a pole/wall where it is very difficult to use the other type. The merc could also try to anticipate a spy rounding a corner with a little more stealth rather than firing a loud nade. Maybe it would not be an entirely different gadget. If the merc has grenades in his inventory, then he could choose a ratio of how many of each type to take with him. So 4:0, 3:1, 2:2, 1:3, or 0:4. This way it would not be mandatory but more of an extension of what is already in place.
Might be possible. Like sticky grenades.
Quote from: CurdyMilk on March 21, 2010, 05:11:20 PM
Quote from: AgentX_003 on March 21, 2010, 06:15:16 AM
Quote from: CurdyMilk on March 21, 2010, 06:06:31 AM
Has anyone ever thought of a "sticky grenade" for the mercs? I am wondering if it would work to have a nade in which it sticks to its first object in contact and then has a 1-2 second timer before detonating. It could make a quiet beeping noise before it blows. It could be a useful option to go along with the normal nades that you bank off of other objects. You could make it explode the same way, but have a different color or style so it can be detected while in the air as different from the other kind. A smart spy could tell the difference if he sees coming. So what do you think of this? I want real answers not something like "this is a **** idea." If you disagree, at least say your reasoning.
thats great and all but its sounds too TF2 ish O_o hence teh demo man :/.
Haha, by the way, I liked TF2 and the demoman was my fav. I didn't really make the connection to that however. There are a few differences here. One is that this is automated detonation rather than manual. As soon as it hits, it has 1-2 seconds before exploding. Second, it would not be a glowing bright spike ball. It would longer and narrower with a tiny blinking red light that has a quiet beep as soon as it attaches. This way, the spy could hear it if he listened carefully even if he never saw it,. The places it could be useful is when trying to nade a spy on a ceiling or on a pole/wall where it is very difficult to use the other type. The merc could also try to anticipate a spy rounding a corner with a little more stealth rather than firing a loud nade. Maybe it would not be an entirely different gadget. If the merc has grenades in his inventory, then he could choose a ratio of how many of each type to take with him. So 4:0, 3:1, 2:2, 1:3, or 0:4. This way it would not be mandatory but more of an extension of what is already in place.
Quote from: frvge on March 21, 2010, 06:08:11 PM
Might be possible. Like sticky grenades.
Yes. The only issue up for debate here is whether or not they could be stuck onto the spy. Of course they could stick to any other object, but if they directly hit the spy should it stick to him? Then it would be an automatic kill. If it is hard enough to get a direct hit then fine, but if not then we would need an alternative. I can't make an accurate judgement on this because I haven't been able to test the gameplay, but you guys would know whether it would be too easy or not. If you don't want it to stick to the spy, you could use the idea that the spy's high tech suit avoids all adhesives. Then, the nade would drop in front of him and stick to the nearest object. This could make it quite interesting for the merc's strategy by actually trying to get it close to him but not on him in order for it to be effective. As I said before, the merc would have to use his judgment on which type to use in each situation. Most cases would lean toward the normal frag, but some would benefit from this idea.
I know! We could make a spy claw.
The spy claw could be stuck into the merc to kill him instead of snapping his neck. Instead of elbowing the merc, the spy claw will scratch him...this causes him to be shocked and lose 1/10th of his health. The spy claw could also be used to tap into computer systems, so instead of just a normal timer on the objectives you get to play a fun whackamole mini-game...and we all know mini-games pwn. For sabotage, the spy claw can supercharge the bomb to make it explode in .75x the time. For extraction, the spy claw will overload the disc tracking system, so you don't appear on radar when you move.
The spy claw can also be used to climb surfaces, so the spy can access areas in the map that he cannot by any other gadget or means in the game. That's totally balanced and cool because if you don't want to go there then you just shouldn't take the spy claw. It also would be awesome to have the spy hang upside down from a ceiling and decapitate the merc, like Baraka from MKII. Afterward, the spy will whip a cake out of his ass and eat it, refilling his life.
This gadget totally r0x0rz and should be in PS. If you disagree, you're wrong, because this is something different.
Quote from: tigaer on March 20, 2010, 08:56:21 AM
Who said anything about hacking terminals automatically with hacking bullets?! I actually clearing said it DOESN'T do that. I said hacking PANELS, as in the panels you hack to open doors, as in NOT terminals.
I saw this...
QuoteMaybe that could be too op. Here's what I'm thinking with the hack darts.
-Instantly hack wall panels
-Manually hack terminals from a distance, there is a max range - have to maintain a view of the terminal, goes slower than usual
-Hack bullets allow you to look through a camnet or even have security cams give you intruder alerts.
You didn't suggest it, but someone else did, which is why I said it.
QuoteAdrenaline Shots wouldn't encourage aggro as much as you say, which is already being somewhat nerfed in PS.
Then why instant, temporary health? When would you need it besides facing a merc? If a mine hits you, you are already going to be close to death, and temporary health will only encourage running to a health pack, probably facing a merc along the way. I don't see how it would encourage anything OTHER than aggro.
QuoteYou really need to cut it out with the personal attacks dude, itt's uncalled for.
They are fun.
QuoteThe gadget is too specific in function; it's absolutely useless in maps that don't have hacking panels.
QuoteHrmmm....
Then don't bring it on those levels?
Course that's saying it's stuck to just hacking panels.
That is a bad way to think of things. For one, I rarely hacked panels. The ones I hacked the most were probably the ones on factory, for the wall room, or maybe the steam on club. I would never, ever have wanted to waste a gadget slot on hacking those (design flaw on factory, as I don't think limiting the game by two objectives is good; most likely better to leave the panels for opening up additional ROUTES for the spys to take, or for environmental effects that could benefit the spy). Now, this gadget actually has SOME base to go on, as more of a passive gadget to infiltrate places. I feel like the functions you have mentioned would be more suited to an alarm snare though. So here are some of my ideas.
Alarm Snare: Basically, you have said hacking camnet and cameras, both of which I have posted as a buff for alarm snares. Making them a toggle would make them more multipurpose, instead of just making noise. The toggle would be for noise or for other environmentally decided options. Opening doors...while not a necessity, could be added. I really don't feel this would make them over-powered, but I can see where you are coming from. It would still be a decoy, because they could look at camnet and see that there is no one there, when you could actually be sitting right in front of the camera. You could open a door from across the map with a carefully placed snare, and run in a different direction, faking them out. It could also be used as a passive tool for going to locations and getting into places without having to put yourself at risk. It seems like that would make the alarm snares competitive with other gadgets, while not making it overpowered. Its downside would be no real offensive purpose besides distracting the merc, which is not much.
So, in an effort to avoid a wall of text that no one will read, here is a summary of the alarm snare idea that I just said:
- Having a toggle, active or passive.
- If shot at a camera, the passive toggle will make the camera not register you, while the active toggle will make it go off
- If shot at a panel, the passive toggle will start the hacking process without making an alert status for the merc, but will still make the noise associated with the panel. The active toggle will hack the panel in a normal amount of time, but will display the alert status.
- If shot at camnet, the passive toggle will display a clean scene, while the active toggle will...do something (can't think of something, maybe display a screen that looks like it is getting shot, or something else to act like the spy is in the room)
- The active toggle will make noise and ping the reticle, while the passive will make no noise
I believe this make will make the alarm snare a very efficient gadget at what it should be used for, distractions and enabling the spy through passive means.
Camnet: Camnet has a few design flaws. First of all, it really doesn't make sense on how it works... Why would they have separate cameras to view? It really doesn't make sense, although realism isn't a first priority. Secondly, people just camped with their back to a wall in a corner for complete protection. Also, as spekkio said, one merc will watch while the other merc follows his orders, which makes for an easy merc game while also being boring.
Proposed sollution:
- Have the stationary cams be the camnet cams. When an alarm goes up, jump into the cam to get a better view of the situation. Also, it takes away the balance issues of camnet locations, as most cams are put into locations that don't cover huge areas or spawn routes the spies will take.
- When the merc is viewing the cams, have them pull out a laptop screen of some sort that is electronic. That way, when a merc who is viewing the cams is shot with the shocker, it can be an electrocution and will knock the merc out for a period of time. That will decrease the amount of time the merc spends in the cam.
- Have the quality of the cams look like it is a wifi feed, deteriorating in quality as the distance increases. That way the merc will not be able to camp in the spawn and view all of the cams, but will have to move around.
I believe these changes will make camnet a feature that is less annoying to spies, and less campy for mercs. The first suggestion is just an idea and not a true fix, but would indirectly help. It would also increase the amount of camnet positions.
Cams/Smoke/Gasmask: Another issue that was brought up was the hard counter of the gasmask to cams and smokes. The gasmask is thought of as a mandatory gadget for many, although I didn't use it much. I didn't like the idea of taking a gadget just in case the other team used cams heavily. I also didn't like that my cams were useless when a merc happened to equip the gasmask when entering the room I had my cam set up in. Changes need to be made, but I am not sure what.
Here are some ideas:
- There were renders of the merc, wearing a gasmask over his mouth, but not eyes. If that is the case, I believe that the CAM gas should make the merc tear up and have a difficult time seeing, but be completely protected from passing out. The smoke grenade smoke would not affect the eyes because it is a different type, which is visibly shown by the smoke color (at least in previous iterations)
- The gas mask should have a shorter timer, but able to be refilled once by the backpack (air filter style)
- When equipped, the breathing sound should be very loud, and when filtering smoke, it should block out almost all other sounds in the game. That way it doesn't have to block sight but the sound instead (since it doesn't cover eyes).
Those are my ideas right now. I believe they all work fine and fix some problems that were annoying.
P.S. Grenade idea isn't good OR bad... unneeded but could be an option on the actual grenade, like mines have.
Ion, if you think personal attacks are fun, take it to a PM.
LOL at nerfed aggro in PS.
Good luck defending yourself without MT and funny punch glitches.
Quote from: Spekkio on March 22, 2010, 12:36:43 AM
I know! We could make a spy claw.
This fits in with my idea of making spies catgirls so I'm all for it tbh.
Let's test this shit, yo.
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi946.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fad310%2FCurdyMilk%2FStickyNade-2-1-1-1.jpg&hash=60c6e174541d8f2cff236df2c663fa92e015bfbf)
This is my little sketch of the sticky nade variation to give you ideas if you decide to go with it. Obviously this is a low quality pic but it shows the basic look. You could also add the red as flashing in and out with white and a beep. What do you think? It would be pretty simple...
Edit: I just added the spots on the other ones and adjusted the red color slightly.
Here are my suggestions:
-landing crouched sets off the merc's reticle
-tazer range x3
-spy can jump a tazed merc
-taze invulnerability from 12 sec to 4
-triple passive security in all maps
-remove insta nades
-bullcharge no longer ko's spies
-remove berserk
-spy traps go from 3--> 5
-no limit to number of mines/traps that can be placed throughout the map
-remove healing
-remove regen
-remove the ability to remove traps/spy bullets
-frag grenades from 4 ---> 5
-reduce spy trap laser range
-shorten proxy mine detection radius
-increase spy crouching height
-add 4 speeds instead of 2
-allow merc to walk/crouch at slow speed
the list goes on ...
If you don't think that non-gadget changes can have huge effects on gameplay, you are sorely mistaken.
I'm pretty sure insta nades were a glitch. You can't remove them in a different game if they aren't present. I know what you mean though, make sure there are no insta nade glitches. Right? lol nvm
Quote from: Spekkio on March 21, 2010, 02:00:19 PM
Cronky, I gave my opinion...twice. Here it is for the third time:
A panel hacking gadget is too narrow in function to be useful. Everything else you've mentioned regarding motion sensors and cameras can be accomplished by other means already present in the game.
RIGHT! Just didn't read that 2nd part.
I have to disagree though because while other gadgets have similar abilities (As do they all too eachother), none would do (Or does) exactly what this gadget would do.
Hacking Bullet: Confusion of static defenses (Results varying on type of defense hacked), and gives option to hack Panels from far away
Spy Bullet: Ability to target Merc and give position, Listen in on Merc's conversation, and AoE Radius protection.
Alarm Snare: Mask movement with false sounds, can set off alarms without putting spy in danger.
HBS: Cone style acquisition of Nearby Merc or Spy position. (Forget if this thing does more than that)
While it's abilities overlap with other gadgets, it is still unique on it's execution. Your pick on which one of these gadgets you'd take is based on the situation/level you are about to enter. Where as one person may bring Spy Bullets on Deftec because of it's overall largely open layout. On Aqua one may prefer to bring the HBS because of the close proximity of routes available. This just being an example, but still applicable that a new gadget with unique abilities is still plausible. Of course assuming not all maps will be the same in terms of Panels/Defenses/Layout.
@IonI could see this Hacking Bullet Combined into the Alarm Snare. Just how you described it seems a wee bit complicated. I know in execution it would just be a difference in toggles, but it sounds like a lot of options that you have to keep in mind when using it. That each situation has Two separate things that could happen. Those two things on one surface not being the same as what may happen if you were to use it on another surface.
I do completely agree with though that having the sound for the alarm snare to be manually operated would be a smart move, if not a more useful than it's current state of use. (Pretty sure you mentioned that.) Or a toggle at the very least.
On top of all that, I like the Camnet Ideas a lot. Wifi Connection/Static, Perfect. Overload, a good consequence for Cam Camping. Not physically controlling the cams... a nice touch that would work as long as what the cams were looking at actually were positioned right.
An old suggestion I'd still like to see more of:Unique Pieces on the Spy and Merc suit that represent exactly what they are bringing. Nothing drastic, but if say a Spy brought:
Flash, Smoke, Alarm Snares, and HBS
There would be grenades on his belt, perhaps a pouch for alarm snares, and his gun would have a slight modification (If it still uses the gun).
Much in the same way that if a Merc bring a backpack, that he should be wearing a backpack (Or as you guys have made, a side pouch. Or how the Gas Mask has worked out.). Just a fully fleshed out version of physical representations of your Load-out you brought.
Quote from: Spekkio on March 22, 2010, 05:01:08 AM
Here are my suggestions:
-landing crouched sets off the merc's reticle If it is a hard landing right?
-tazer range x3
-spy can jump a tazed merc Not too sure...PT had some problems...
-taze invulnerability from 12 sec to 4 What do you mean by taze?
-triple passive security in all maps If my alarm snare idea was involved I would say totally, but it would seem to be a pain after shooting out 10 cameras to get into the map
-remove insta nades
-bullcharge no longer ko's spies Why? As long as it isn't a get out of any situation free card, and instead was only used as an offensive tool, it could be good. No more charging out of smoke and hitting a spy...
-remove berserk
-spy traps go from 3--> 5
-no limit to number of mines/traps that can be placed throughout the map Suiciding mercs aren't good. Maybe punish a suicide?
-remove healing I think that the spy should be able to heal another spy, with a 5 second or so animation that only heals up to 50% more than he currently has... If he is at 50% health he gets boosted to 75% or so
-remove regen Defintely
-remove the ability to remove traps/spy bullets Mixed feelings here...Maybe another long animation?
-frag grenades from 4 ---> 5
-reduce spy trap laser range
-shorten proxy mine detection radius I never noticed a problem?
-increase spy crouching height Why? As far as I know the vents and other areas have been designed for a specific height already, so why change it?
-add 4 speeds instead of 2 That was over complicated in PT and served no purpose.
-allow merc to walk/crouch at slow speed Why would any merc ever want to do that
the list goes on ...
If you don't think that non-gadget changes can have huge effects on gameplay, you are sorely mistaken.
QuoteI could see this Hacking Bullet Combined into the Alarm Snare. Just how you described it seems a wee bit complicated. I know in execution it would just be a difference in toggles, but it sounds like a lot of options that you have to keep in mind when using it. That each situation has Two separate things that could happen. Those two things on one surface not being the same as what may happen if you were to use it on another surface. The active toggle would always toggle noise and attempt to alert mercs, while passive would attempt to deceive mercs. There aren't many possibilities for surfaces and it would be just like everything else, a learning process. You could also just have a context sensitive display by the gadget selection saying what the button would do.
I do completely agree with though that having the sound for the alarm snare to be manually operated would be a smart move, if not a more useful than it's current state of use. (Pretty sure you mentioned that.) Or a toggle at the very least. Ties in with above
On top of all that, I like the Camnet Ideas a lot. Wifi Connection/Static, Perfect. Overload, a good consequence for Cam Camping. Not physically controlling the cams... a nice touch that would work as long as what the cams were looking at actually were positioned right. I think controlling the cams would be good, just for the sake that so much would be lost without the tracking option that camnet brings.
@ion,
My post consisted of all the changes that were made from PT to CT. I made it to illustrate the point that minor changes without adding gadgets or anything drastic can still have significant effects on how the game plays.
Quote from: Ion.67 on March 22, 2010, 10:18:35 PM
The active toggle would always toggle noise and attempt to alert mercs, while passive would attempt to deceive mercs. There aren't many possibilities for surfaces and it would be just like everything else, a learning process. You could also just have a context sensitive display by the gadget selection saying what the button would do.
I think controlling the cams would be good, just for the sake that so much would be lost without the tracking option that camnet brings.
Thinking about it, yes there aren't many surfaces. Just that each different surface would have 2 "Modes" you would have to learn. I never meant to say it wasn't possible. People will indeed learn, just that as it is with each gadget... They are fairly simple in execution. If you just made the alarm snare toggle-able then it would already be an improvement. Combining it with the suggested hacking bullet throws a slew more options into it, but complicates the gadget much more. Making it less of an Alarm Snare, and more something completely different. (Thus losing the alarm snare in the process. Which is the wrong direction)
As for Camnet, I agree that controlling it is good as well. I forgot that the normal cameras DID move in CT (At least most did. I believe Deftect B Elevator, Lower Floor didn't). So I mistook it as a stationary camera idea.
ion, I used snares extensively in CT and disagree with your assessment of them.
Snares were the only way to mitigate merc EAX in CT; their only hindrance was that the mercs could hear you fire them from quite far away. However, since PS won't have CT's broken sound engine, that problem will fix itself. That change, by itself, is enough to make snares almost perfect.
I do think that "smarter" snares would be helpful -- eg, they make ambient noises that mimic the surface it's placed on, rather than random ones. Also, snares shot on passive equipment should trigger an alarm for the merc, but shouldn't lock the room.
Most people misunderstand the function of alarm snares, and thus find them useless. Snares aren't meant to trick the merc into thinking you're somewhere you're not. They're for masking your movement so that you can move about undetected and quickly. With one or two well-placed alarm snares, I never have to worry about crouching to move around. I can then use the spy's faster speed to my advantage, and the mercs will have a harder time knowing where I'm going next to cut me off.
Your suggestions would make the gadget very overpowered.
Quote from: Spekkio on March 23, 2010, 12:47:12 AM
ion, I used snares extensively in CT and disagree with your assessment of them.
Snares were the only way to mitigate merc EAX in CT; their only hindrance was that the mercs could hear you fire them from quite far away. However, since PS won't have CT's broken sound engine, that problem will fix itself. That change, by itself, is enough to make snares almost perfect.
I do think that "smarter" snares would be helpful -- eg, they make ambient noises that mimic the surface it's placed on, rather than random ones. Also, snares shot on passive equipment should trigger an alarm for the merc, but shouldn't lock the room.
Most people misunderstand the function of alarm snares, and thus find them useless. Snares aren't meant to trick the merc into thinking you're somewhere you're not. They're for masking your movement so that you can move about undetected and quickly.
Your suggestions would make the gadget very overpowered.
This.
Partly because it makes sense
Party because you suggested something New.
:P
I didn't suggest anything new; alarm snares already create ambient noises and set off passive defenses in CT. It just doesn't make much sense when a snare makes vent noises on a wooden floor, and it's not very useful to lock objectives on yourself.
Well then...
Looks like there is only one part that holds true.
Quote from: Spekkio on March 23, 2010, 12:47:12 AM
ion, I used snares extensively in CT and disagree with your assessment of them.
Snares were the only way to mitigate merc EAX in CT; their only hindrance was that the mercs could hear you fire them from quite far away. However, since PS won't have CT's broken sound engine, that problem will fix itself. That change, by itself, is enough to make snares almost perfect. Without EAX, which you claim was broken (which it was) snares will lose usefulness. You won't be heard from impossible distances, which is why you yourself used alarm snares, to cover up the noise. I know that the reticul is a big part, but sound is half the battle.
I do think that "smarter" snares would be helpful -- eg, they make ambient noises that mimic the surface it's placed on, rather than random ones. Also, snares shot on passive equipment should trigger an alarm for the merc, but shouldn't lock the room. Why? If you shoot it, why would you go into that same room?
Most people misunderstand the function of alarm snares, and thus find them useless. Snares aren't meant to trick the merc into thinking you're somewhere you're not. They're for masking your movement so that you can move about undetected and quickly. That is your interpretation. It also was the only usable theory for CT, as they were easy to identify. Without sounding nerdy, I doubt a spy would bring a gadget that makes an unrealistic noise and is purely so he can run around without being heard. I would rather it have options for stealth or aggro style.
With one or two well-placed alarm snares, I never have to worry about crouching to move around. I can then use the spy's faster speed to my advantage, and the mercs will have a harder time knowing where I'm going next to cut me off.
Your suggestions would make the gadget very overpowered. I would like to know how. The active toggle would behave EXACTLY like it does now, while the passive toggle would be for avoiding passive and even active (camnet) defenses. It lacks any offensive ability besides hiding your own noise. It adds options to a gadget that seems to be lacking in the functionality department.
I agree with Ion, your ideas are pretty good for the Alarm Snare, they would actually make it worthwhile to take. I'd also say they're pretty pointless in CT anyway, anyone with a blind bit of sense can tell whether the sound being created is from an Alarm Snare or not at the moment, EAX or without.
QuoteWithout EAX, which you claim was broken (which it was) snares will lose usefulness. You won't be heard from impossible distances, which is why you yourself used alarm snares, to cover up the noise. I know that the reticul is a big part, but sound is half the battle.
I disagree. First, fixing EAX isn't going to suddenly rid the game of ambient noise entirely. If they do the sound right, you'll still be able to hear certain things...it's just that you'll have to be the appropriate distance away.
Secondly, time is a large factor in SvM. Allowing the spies to run around without telling the merc "hey, I'm over here!" is a huge advantage.
QuoteWhy? If you shoot it, why would you go into that same room?
Because mercs will typically ignore anything coming from the snare's direction, since they know it's a snare.
QuoteThat is your interpretation.
It's not an "interpretation," it's the reality of the situation. A constant reticle ping isn't going to fool anyone into thinking a real spy is somewhere he's not, so it's pretty silly to try to use the gadget in that manner.
Quote from: stonecoldkillaI'd also say they're pretty pointless in CT anyway, anyone with a blind bit of sense can tell whether the sound being created is from an Alarm Snare or not at the moment, EAX or without.
Have you not been paying attention to the conversation?
QuoteI disagree. First, fixing EAX isn't going to suddenly rid the game of ambient noise entirely. If they do the sound right, you'll still be able to hear certain things...it's just that you'll have to be the appropriate distance away.
Secondly, time is a large factor in SvM. Allowing the spies to run around without telling the merc "hey, I'm over here!" is a huge advantage.
It wont rid the game of it, you are right. But when you could hear a spy from across the entire map, sound was an issue. Having realistic sounds will mean not hearing things across the map, and instead hearing sounds that are in a range that could be picked up. Putting in an alarm snare in CT made obnoxious noises that could cover up a lot of sounds and would sometimes mix with real sounds, creating a situation where speakers became useless. In a realistic sound system, only an alarm snare fired in a semi close location compared to the spy will make noise that will cover him up. Meaning, a snare fired across the map will no longer cover the spies movements with sound, only the reticule. That is half of the functionality.
QuoteBecause mercs will typically ignore anything coming from the snare's direction, since they know it's a snare.
Valid point, but you have said that you wish they made realistic noises. It will be harder to identify as a snare then, and in that case...what do you do?
QuoteIt's not an "interpretation," it's the reality of the situation. A constant reticle ping isn't going to fool anyone into thinking a real spy is somewhere he's not, so it's pretty silly to try to use the gadget in that manner.
You wish for realistic sounds, so why not realistic pings too? It can easily be randomly generated noises, corresponding to the texture it is placed on. Would that be so bad? It seems as if you played with it as an aggro tool, while I look at it as a passive tool.
Randomly generated noises are bad because then the snare loses its ability to function as a mask for your movement. Additionally, it becomes impossible to predict when the snare will ping, thus you don't know how to time your positioning such that it's not in the direction of the random ping.
As for "realistic noises," I don't think you and I are talking about the same thing. I thought you were referring to shooting a snare onto a camera or laser. That can be useful for a multitude of reasons, such as putting a very loud alarm beeping noise in the merc's ears to keep them from hearing you. However, it becomes limited when a snare, for example, shot on a camera in hall B in factory locks two entire rooms full of objectives. Note that the objectives themselves are not in hall B at all; thus one spy would be shooting a snare at the camera to pull a merc away while the other hacks an objective.
My comment about making more realistic noises was when the snare was shot on surfaces, NOT at passive security devices. In those cases, they should make ambient sounds associated with that surface only.
The manual ping could be overpowered because you can have your cake and eat it too. You can easily adjust the snare to either provide cover for moving quickly, or ping every so often to attempt to trick the merc. However, people might still be able to tell a snare from movement, thus we're back to square one anyway.
Finally, being quick and being aggro are two very different things.
They may be separate things, but they are closer in relation than being slow and aggro. Basically what you just said is what my idea is for the active toggle. It will ping a lot and be noisy and cover things up. The passive toggle will do the opposite; try and act real, help avoid defenses, and generally try and assist the spy instead of cover him.
Your passive toggle is essentially a way for spies to silently take out any security in the map without warning to the mercs. That is completely overpowered. Security is there for a reason to balance the maps, and having a gadget to bypass that check entirely is silly.
So then we're left with the "active" toggle which you can just have be automatic, like it is now.
I doubt it will be entirely silent. I am sure there will still be a launch noise. The advantage of this method would be that it will not ping the reticule, and will no display a downed system (smoking cameras). I don't see this as overpowered, mainly because there are only 5 of them and it is a gadget choice (one that I see as being mainly for the purpose of avoiding security and tricking mercs). You COULD use 5 snares to silently (or as silent as you can be) avoid 5 lasers, cameras, motion sensors, or camnets, but then you completely lose all snares and any ability to trick mercs and hide moves. Also, the toggle could affect all snares, which would remove the possibilities of mixing the two toggles and could be used in a sort of an ambush was (putting down two snares in different lasers and toggling the active toggle).
I disagree with the concept of allowing a way to disable alarms silently. That's pretty much putting stealth on easy mode.
Quote from: Spekkio on March 24, 2010, 12:35:22 AM
I disagree with the concept of allowing a way to disable alarms silently. That's pretty much putting stealth on easy mode.
you can dive through like all of the lasers in ct anyway and not trigger / ping the riticule, they rarely get shot out, so what's the problem, however disabling cameras silently would make mercs jobs to hard.
CT didn't have enough passive security in a lot of maps because of camnet, which was unavoidable.
I never really thought about whether or not spies should always be able to dive through laser defenses. Being able to kinda makes them pointless.
Quote from: Spekkio on March 24, 2010, 03:03:56 AM
CT didn't have enough passive security in a lot of maps because of camnet, which was unavoidable.
I never really thought about whether or not spies should always be able to dive through laser defenses. Being able to kinda makes them pointless.
I agree. Map designers need to vary on this subject, being able to dive through every set or lasers is not a good thing and makes them pretty pointless. I know that if I build a map I'm most likely not going to allow diving through my lasers, only in open areas where it'd be very, very dangerous to stop and shoot.
as a general rule i'd say being able to dive through the ones in the open, and the concealed ones would require shooting/chaffing.
It's up to the map designer where the ones that can be dove through are placed. It depends on whether or not he/she wants a spy to freely and silently access that area. All the mapper would have to do, theoretically, is lower or raise the level of the laser beams.
May as well not bother putting in lasers if you can dive through them. All they're gonna do is possibly screw over people who are lagging/really new. No real point.
I guess if they were like the ones in Factory corridor B they could work. Y'can still dive through them, but at least it takes some effort to avoid the cameras while you do it. Better than completely pointless ones at least.
Quote from: Spekkio on March 23, 2010, 09:46:57 PM
Quote from: stonecoldkillaI'd also say they're pretty pointless in CT anyway, anyone with a blind bit of sense can tell whether the sound being created is from an Alarm Snare or not at the moment, EAX or without.
Have you not been paying attention to the conversation?
Yes I have, and in my honest opinion what you're saying is bullshit. With practice it is incredibly easy to tell whether the sound being created by the game is real or from a snare, and when you don't pay attention to alarm snares, they become obsolete. That is why when you say they would be "near perfect" without EAX, I couldn't disagree more.
You can claim that I'm spewing bullshit, but the fact of the matter is that I used snares a lot in CT and finished 2nd place in a tourney with them (and I think the guys who beat us used them, too). They must have some effectiveness.
Irrelevant, my good Spek, irrelevant. :D
Irrelevant?
The claim is that snares are useless, and that any player can easily discern between snares and a spy. So how are examples of successful players using them in a tournament that had prizes irrelevant? I mean, sure, using them to fuck around wouldn't prove anything, but the winners of the tourney got free copies of DA and some t-shirts. People aren't going to throw away equipment slots when there's actually something at stake.
If seefoo and vantage still played (or sas-mosar and solidus on the other side of the pond), you tell me snares are useless after playing a few rounds with them.
It goes back to the fact that snares are pretty well balanced, so their only tweak is that they need to be a little quieter to shoot. It's just that in the face of OP cams, chaff, and HBS, you really don't have much room for them.
It doesn't matter to me if you got 2nd place in a tourney with snares in your equipment; from my personal experience on a much wider scale than a tourney, I have never once found use in snares, or been fooled by them.
Spekkio I was being sarcastic that your example wasn't relevant to the point.
Quote from: STON3COLDKILLA on April 10, 2010, 10:29:57 PM
It doesn't matter to me if you got 2nd place in a tourney with snares in your equipment; from my personal experience on a much wider scale than a tourney, I have never once found use in snares, or been fooled by them.
Stone: the only person whose experience matters.
When it comes to my opinion regarding a gadget in Splinter Cell, I'm not going to base my opinion upon the experiences of other people, I can make my own mind up. Way to twist my pragmatics ;).
I'm no good with the uzi (It's true. Not sure how, but it is. Ask Razor, I can't do anything with it.), but that doesn't mean I go around claiming it's useless. I certainly don't go claiming people are bullshitting when they say they're good with it.
You should be more like me. I'm pretty cool.
Yay, Rocket is pretty cool, and nay, snares are not useless.
I find them especially useful on maps like Orphanage, Missile, Station, and even Club House.
Quote from: FarleyFan on April 11, 2010, 03:59:40 AM
Yay, Rocket is pretty cool, and nay, snares are not useless.
I find them especially useful on maps like Orphanage, Missile, Station, and even Club House.
lawl too bad he doesn't play on the PC loooooooooooooool. the day that happens , hell will freeze over O_o.
Me or Rocket, agent?
If you are talking to me, I won't respond. If you are talking to Rocket, I won't respond.
Quote from: FarleyFan on April 11, 2010, 07:21:39 AM
Me or Rocket, agent?
If you are talking to me, I won't respond. If you are talking to Rocket, I won't respond.
i know rocket would , but you for sure aint not in a million light years, because face it ur afraid of me.
Quote from: AgentX_003 on April 11, 2010, 07:44:55 AM
Quote from: FarleyFan on April 11, 2010, 07:21:39 AM
Me or Rocket, agent?
If you are talking to me, I won't respond. If you are talking to Rocket, I won't respond.
i know rocket would , but you for sure aint not in a million light years, because face it ur afraid of me.
I know I said that I wouldn't respond, but I am only "responding" so that I can laugh. Does that count as a response?
Anyways,
HAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHHAHAHAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHHAAHAAHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAHAHHHAAAAAAAAHHHAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My 88OOGT does not produce the merc flashlight and there are plenty of other annoyances. There is no reason for me to play CT on PC at the moment. When xbox original support goes down, then maybe. Until then,
HAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAHAHAHHHHHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHAHAHHHHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: AgentX_003 on April 11, 2010, 07:44:55 AM
Quote from: FarleyFan on April 11, 2010, 07:21:39 AM
Me or Rocket, agent?
If you are talking to me, I won't respond. If you are talking to Rocket, I won't respond.
i know rocket would , but you for sure aint not in a million light years, because face it ur afraid of me.
bold'd
Quote from: FarleyFan on April 11, 2010, 08:10:32 AM
My 88OOGT does not produce the merc flashlight and there are plenty of other annoyances.
You can get around that if you're willing to rename some files and download some weirdo program.
i mean i wouldn't be going out of my way to play with agent but y'know i'm just sayin'
Quote from: FarleyFan on April 11, 2010, 08:10:32 AM
Quote from: AgentX_003 on April 11, 2010, 07:44:55 AM
Quote from: FarleyFan on April 11, 2010, 07:21:39 AM
Me or Rocket, agent?
If you are talking to me, I won't respond. If you are talking to Rocket, I won't respond.
i know rocket would , but you for sure aint not in a million light years, because face it ur afraid of me.
I know I said that I wouldn't respond, but I am only "responding" so that I can laugh. Does that count as a response?
Anyways,
HAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHHAHAHAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHHAAHAAHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAHAHHHAAAAAAAAHHHAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My 88OOGT does not produce the merc flashlight and there are plenty of other annoyances. There is no reason for me to play CT on PC at the moment. When xbox original support goes down, then maybe. Until then,
HAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAHAHAHHHHHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHAHAHHHHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lame Excuse its called 3d analyzer 2.34 noob.
Quote from: AgentX_003 on April 11, 2010, 10:50:39 AM
Quote from: FarleyFan on April 11, 2010, 08:10:32 AM
I know I said that I wouldn't respond, but I am only "responding" so that I can laugh. Does that count as a response?
Anyways,
My 88OOGT does not produce the merc flashlight and there are plenty of other annoyances. There is no reason for me to play CT on PC at the moment. When xbox original support goes down, then maybe. Until then,
Lame Excuse its called 3d analyzer 2.34 noob.
I can understand where he is coming from. The "Lame Excuse" becomes pretty legit when you have to run the gauntlet if you want to play the game like people without this problem.
Not only do I have to get the game, but I have to find and get another program cause it doesn't work with what I got.
Then at that I have to ALWAYS open this program if I want to play.
On top of THAT though if I want to streamline it I have to make a shortcut to a .bat file which I then get presented with a stupid icon. So if I want it to finally look like I'm playing the game like everyone else, I have to change the Name and Icon to that of what it really should be.
I know it can all happen in a pretty quick moment, but the hassle initially really sucks the fun right out of the game you were once willing to play.
(Added to that is when you aren't blatantly told what the program is on a forum. I searched for a while not knowing what I was looking for. In the end I found my way here, because I want a similar game that I don't have to jump through flaming hoops to play. So thank CT's inability to play right on my video card for why I'm here ;D)
QuoteLame Excuse its called 3d analyzer 2.34 noob.
Are you a prick in real life too? I have the 8800gts and tried that program and it didn't work for shit. It took forever to try and set up and made my mouse super slow. He has a point and you have no life besides an outdated PC game that barely has people playing it.
Is everybody in this community depressed or what? It just makes me depressed reading it. Maybe it is just a contagious disease. I have rarely read anything that has any joy in it at all, and it seems like only frvge and some of the other devs have a spark in their step. Cheer up dudes and enjoy life.
I'm such a positive person. xD
On the outside that is. /wrists.
Why should I be happy on a forum? I get my point across, not my "happy" level.
/wrists (that was funny which is why I am posting it. It makes me happy)
Quote from: CurdyMilk on April 11, 2010, 08:22:41 PM
Is everybody in this community depressed or what? It just makes me depressed reading it. Maybe it is just a contagious disease. I have rarely read anything that has any joy in it at all, and it seems like only frvge and some of the other devs have a spark in their step. Cheer up dudes and enjoy life.
I know dude, everybody here posts like they have a vendetta against the world. Chear the fuck up. That means you, ion.
lol.
Cherries. I brought them :D
I have some strawberries too, if you guys want some :D
Also, please don't forget that going angry over nothing takes your mind off more important things, like getting a life.
Quote from: tigaer on April 11, 2010, 08:43:53 PM
Quote from: CurdyMilk on April 11, 2010, 08:22:41 PM
Is everybody in this community depressed or what? It just makes me depressed reading it. Maybe it is just a contagious disease. I have rarely read anything that has any joy in it at all, and it seems like only frvge and some of the other devs have a spark in their step. Cheer up dudes and enjoy life.
I know dude, everybody here posts like they have a vendetta against the world. Chear the fuck up. That means you, ion.
lol.
Just because I have to argue dumb ideas doesn't mean I'm unhappy.
The new content coming out will make everybody happy. :)
Uh, it's not the best thing ever Tigaer ;). So yeah. It's good tho :)
Quote from: Cronky on April 11, 2010, 05:57:13 PM
I can understand where he is coming from. The "Lame Excuse" becomes pretty legit when you have to run the gauntlet if you want to play the game like people without this problem.
This is actually a reasonable thing to say!
QuoteOn top of THAT though if I want to streamline it I have to make a shortcut to a .bat file which I then get presented with a stupid icon. So if I want it to finally look like I'm playing the game like everyone else, I have to change the Name and Icon to that of what it really should be.
Okay now you're just back to being a moron again.
Quote from: Ignas on April 11, 2010, 08:29:33 AM
Quote from: AgentX_003 on April 11, 2010, 07:44:55 AM
Quote from: FarleyFan on April 11, 2010, 07:21:39 AM
Me or Rocket, agent?
If you are talking to me, I won't respond. If you are talking to Rocket, I won't respond.
i know rocket would , but you for sure aint not in a million light years, because face it ur afraid of me.
bold'd
Lol.
Quote from: Ambiguous Rocket on April 11, 2010, 08:59:54 AM
Quote from: FarleyFan on April 11, 2010, 08:10:32 AM
My 88OOGT does not produce the merc flashlight and there are plenty of other annoyances.
You can get around that if you're willing to rename some files and download some weirdo program.
i mean i wouldn't be going out of my way to play with agent but y'know i'm just sayin'
lol, I may have to do that when they shut down the xbox version.
QuoteLame Excuse its called 3d analyzer 2.34 noob.
no, lol, it's called "Why would I do this shit when I can still play and own in perfect frames per second, without visual glitches, with controls that I already mastered, without extra programs, and with the 100% guarantee that I won't run into you while searching for a server?" I don't hate you Agent, in fact, I worry about you sometimes.
Quote from: Ion.67 on April 11, 2010, 07:10:10 PM
QuoteLame Excuse its called 3d analyzer 2.34 noob.
Are you a prick in real life too? I have the 8800gts and tried that program and it didn't work for shit. It took forever to try and set up and made my mouse super slow. He has a point and you have no life besides an outdated PC game that barely has people playing it.
lol
Quote from: CurdyMilk on April 11, 2010, 08:22:41 PM
Is everybody in this community depressed or what? It just makes me depressed reading it. Maybe it is just a contagious disease. I have rarely read anything that has any joy in it at all, and it seems like only frvge and some of the other devs have a spark in their step. Cheer up dudes and enjoy life.
lol
Quote from: tigaer on April 11, 2010, 09:14:21 PM
The new content coming out will make everybody happy. :)
YES!
Quote from: Ambiguous Rocket on April 12, 2010, 01:39:59 AM
Quote from: Cronky on April 11, 2010, 05:57:13 PM
I can understand where he is coming from. The "Lame Excuse" becomes pretty legit when you have to run the gauntlet if you want to play the game like people without this problem.
This is actually a reasonable thing to say!
QuoteOn top of THAT though if I want to streamline it I have to make a shortcut to a .bat file which I then get presented with a stupid icon. So if I want it to finally look like I'm playing the game like everyone else, I have to change the Name and Icon to that of what it really should be.
Okay now you're just back to being a moron again.
Lol.
Good thread you guys. VERY entertaining. Keep it up!
Quote from: Ambiguous Rocket on April 11, 2010, 01:40:58 AM
I'm no good with the uzi (It's true. Not sure how, but it is. Ask Razor, I can't do anything with it.), but that doesn't mean I go around claiming it's useless. I certainly don't go claiming people are bullshitting when they say they're good with it.
You should be more like me. I'm pretty cool.
I'm not claiming he's LYING, but I don't think what he's saying is accurate. There's a difference between being good at using a gadget (I can use snares just like anybody else can), and having a reason for believing a gadget is useless. I'm not bad with snares, but from my own experiences they're useless against myself and any good player.
Quote from: STON3COLDKILLA on April 12, 2010, 02:01:01 PMI'm not claiming he's LYING, but I don't think what he's saying is accurate. There's a difference between being good at using a gadget (I can use snares just like anybody else can), and having a reason for believing a gadget is useless. I'm not bad with snares, but from my own experiences they're useless against myself and any good player.
What I'm saying is
inaccurate? What I posted were facts...there were some damn good players in the PC tournament, and some of those players used alarm snares when prizes were at stake. What part of that is inaccurate?
So you don't like them...that's great, there are 8 gadgets to choose from for a reason.
I'm curious what broad experience you are using to come to your conclusion, since I played the game rather extensively for like 2-3 years. I mean, since you're so godlike at SCCT, perhaps you could tell me stuff like how you can tell which way a spy is going on factory by standing outside their spawn in MH when they take snares? This is easy to be done in the absence of snares because any reticle ping means they are going to digger and you can hear the footsteps in the vents, but with snares, you shoot one down toward the vent and suddenly that drop doesn't give away your route and the random vent noises can hide where you're going. But maybe I'm missing something, though, because I don't have your broad experience against good players. (yea I know the minelaying route should have a merc in digger at the 0:40 mark to start camping since the spies get there at 0:45 but let's imagine you want to know for sure he's in that vent)
so i was referred to here from the MLG forums, and find it awesome that this project is up and running. I LOVED CT gameplay and played it a LOT. My only suggestions for the game are:
- keeping berserk is fine, but just keep it an option to turn off. I personally find it very overpowered and always played in games that had it off, because it is just a get out of jail free card for the merc that i do not believe in.
- Split stance NEEDS more use. The most epic part to me about CT multiplayer was the split you could do up a small corridor, but there weren't many spots to do this. My best memory of CT was getting chased by a merc on Aquarius and getting into a stairwell where you could do this move (i believe this might have been one of the merc only hallways, it had yellow walls if i remember right?), dropped smoke and did that move, he sprinted right under me and i snapped his neck. Most satisfying moment in the game imo, but it just could not be used a lot. I understand that for general gameplay small hallways don't work out too well, but at least a few spots would be nice.
Hey there Axel. I agree about the split jump. Either take it out of the game or make more places to use it. I say keep the split move in the game and make it up to the mapper.
And the hallway you are talking about is a hallway from tech room to the outside area. I believe it has white walls. I always wished I could pull of something cool in that spot but never really got the chance lol
Hey guys just suggesting, I really like Boss house in DA. Is like the best map. And I really like the idea of moving faster as a spy.
I vote we see a remake of Dimmykron Estate for Project Stealth. ;)
My suggestion/question ;)
- Is it possible to make wet shader. Like in SC:CT if it rainy then the cloth is wet. So if it possible it could be very cool, but not only for spy but also for the merc and his weapon.
- Second is to make an effect when the merc look up, then raindrops fall on his mask.
I have one more suggestion.
All splinter cell MP games are always in the buildings.
What if we make a map in the forest or something like that. It can be really fun to play. And spy could climb a tree. And if merc use motion vision the could be distracted by birds or animals. More room for improvisation.
Possible... but we don't have enough level designers. So that's a no for now.
I saw the destructable meshes in UDk. Will you include that or not?
Like in SC:CT MP when the merc could run and smash thin wall
For now, no.