So I was thinking about how gay camnet is, and how I wish there was something useful to replace it. Then I was thinking...what if the mercs had a way to zap the spy's energy? This would prevent them from using the SS and any energy using gadgets. As a bonus, you could also have the item disable spy special visions temporarily. I always found it funny that people can talk about how OP MT is and EMF ghosting is, but no one mentions how OP spy thermal vision is.
The thing is, I can't think of a way to incorporate this that would be useful. You can't make it a grenade because a frag would be better. You can't really make it a passive security item because mines are better, and zapping a spy's energy when you're not around to take advantage of him not having a SS isn't very useful in general. You could make it some kind of beam or something, but then it'd just be better to snipe the spy.
Discuss.
Quote from: Spekkio on April 10, 2010, 06:21:09 PM
So I was thinking about how gay camnet is, and how I wish there was something useful to replace it. Then I was thinking...what if the mercs had a way to zap the spy's energy? This would prevent them from using the SS and any energy using gadgets. As a bonus, you could also have the item disable spy special visions temporarily. I always found it funny that people can talk about how OP MT is and EMF ghosting is, but no one mentions how OP spy thermal vision is.
The thing is, I can't think of a way to incorporate this that would be useful. You can't make it a grenade because a frag would be better. You can't really make it a passive security item because mines are better, and zapping a spy's energy when you're not around to take advantage of him not having a SS isn't very useful in general. You could make it some kind of beam or something, but then it'd just be better to snipe the spy.
Discuss.
well i think you could make it into a form of tazer , so then the tazer has two modes , stun and Emp :P ?
Why would you use EMP then?
Yea, exactly...if you get close enough to taze the spy, freezing him in place to kill him is better than taking away his energy.
The best I can think of is an AoE beam type weapon that has like 5 shots. It would certainly help the ensuing pursuit because the spy couldn't use SS to freeze you or thermal to see lasers and stuff.
Taking away a spy's energy can certainly be useful...it's just a matter of employing it in a way that doesn't coincide with something that is more useful, ie killing the spy.
My question to further this is:
What's the disadvantage?
Sounds like a good gadget and useful if you can find a real means of implementing it. It's a hard one to think of simply because it's nonlethal and being put up against the Merc's arsenal of Lethal gadgets.
Second small question pertaining to AoE possibility:
Can the Merc get caught in it too? (System Malfunction, No Torchlight, Visions, etc)
Well what comes to mind is something like Sam Fisher's portable emp thing in Conviction. It seems more like a merc gadget to me anyways. I'm thinking that either take a back pack with gadget refills, or you take a backpack with an EMP generator inside. You activate the blast, all spy visions are snubbed, ss energy is drained, and maybe as an added bonus it could disable alarm snares and spy bullets temporarily if you feel they are within range.
This gadget is highly un-balanced, in my opinion. Let's take for example Cafe Outside on Museum; imagine that a spy is hacking Cafe Outside, whilst his mate guards the double doors. A merc could just activate an EMP (disabling the spies ability to retaliate/delay your actions) and clear the room with ease. Whenever a spy stops to shock you at close range, you could just activate an EMP and charge them down. This would have to be seriously limited to become balanced, but to limit this gadget as much as you would have to would make the gadget redundant to its opposition, which is why in my opinion, it's a bad idea.
This seems more like a spy gadget than a merc gadget. Mercs need gadgets that help them hunt, not confuse. That's the spies job.
The negative side can be that it also breaks lights temporarily, creating more darkness for Spies.
Quote from: STON3COLDKILLA on April 11, 2010, 01:55:06 AM
This gadget is highly un-balanced, in my opinion. Let's take for example Cafe Outside on Museum; imagine that a spy is hacking Cafe Outside, whilst his mate guards the double doors. A merc could just activate an EMP (disabling the spies ability to retaliate/delay your actions) and clear the room with ease. Whenever a spy stops to shock you at close range, you could just activate an EMP and charge them down. This would have to be seriously limited to become balanced, but to limit this gadget as much as you would have to would make the gadget redundant to its opposition, which is why in my opinion, it's a bad idea.
It's only unbalanced if it is implemented as such. Time to brainstorm. This is the drawing board, not the final cuts.
I like what Frvge just suggested for a downside.
It's not a downside if the spies can't use night vision to navigate.
I like how people are calling it OP even though there isn't really a gadget, but rather just a proposed end state.
Yeah spek. Like I said "This is the drawing board, not the final cuts."
Propose something to make this idea seem less overpowered then, stone.
Quote from: Cronky on April 10, 2010, 09:33:53 PM
My question to further this is:
What's the disadvantage?
There needs to be one? :/
(I can't come up with any way to make this gadget useful for mercs and not annoying as fuck as spy so I can't really contribute sorry)
Quote from: Ambiguous Rocket on April 11, 2010, 09:02:02 AM
Quote from: Cronky on April 10, 2010, 09:33:53 PM
My question to further this is:
What's the disadvantage?
There needs to be one? :/
(I can't come up with any way to make this gadget useful for mercs and not annoying as fuck as spy so I can't really contribute sorry)
Yes
I disagree that EVERYTHING should have a hard-counter. Most, yes.
I don't mean say that there needs to be a situation where the spy will win, but is there a situation where the merc doesn't.
Less in the sense that Spies can render a mine useless by removing it. More in the sense that a Merc can tell the difference between Spy Movement and Alarm Snares (IF used for such means).
Things such as the Lights going out or if the Spy does get away he is a lot harder to find (No visions/etc means EMF is useless).
Is it based on an Energy-like deal such as with Spies, or only a few uses like a grenade?
How long are Spies out of everything?
Can it take out Gadgets?
If the AoE doesn't originate from the Merc, can the Merc get caught in it?
How big is the AoE?
Does the AoE have a duration or is it instant/hit or miss? (Duration giving a little leeway so as you don't have to hit them directly with it. Instead they may be able to walk into it in the second or two its active)
Some of these are already answered and come with obvious Cons. My want is just for them to be mentioned so that it doesn't come across as OP on first glance. Which leads less to discussion, more to ranting on about how this is a "Shitty" gadget.
All those questions about duration, balance, and stuff are answered by actually testing the gadget. Different phase of development. You have to figure out how to implement it first before you get to that point.
Quote from: Spekkio on April 11, 2010, 08:37:45 PM
testing the gadget.
yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeessssssssssssss
Quote from: Cronky on April 11, 2010, 05:57:56 PM
Quote from: Ambiguous Rocket on April 11, 2010, 09:02:02 AM
Quote from: Cronky on April 10, 2010, 09:33:53 PM
My question to further this is:
What's the disadvantage?
There needs to be one? :/
(I can't come up with any way to make this gadget useful for mercs and not annoying as fuck as spy so I can't really contribute sorry)
Yes
It disables lights when activated. Maybe it disables your own visions for a couple seconds? Try brainstorming. With your brain.
I could see this being a cool gadget actually. When I see Sam use it in Conviction I imagine mercs using it to sort of throw out their own little blast during a smoke/chaff/flash battle with spies.
Why can't it be trap oriented? Spy trips the trap he loses his energy. Downside is that the spy can still disable/get around it.
Another way for placement is just something the merc places on the floor/wall that takes up a defined area where it would drain the spies energy, like a net. Downside, spies should be able to see (EMF) and shoot it off...like a mine, trap, snare.
I can't really think of another way to initiate it. If there are metallic objects, make it act as a magnetic connection, so that if a spy touches the object he loses his energy.
I don't know, but there are some brainstormed ideas...with my brain.
Quote from: Westfall on April 12, 2010, 05:23:40 AM
Why can't it be trap oriented? Spy trips the trap he loses his energy. Downside is that the spy can still disable/get around it.
Another way for placement is just something the merc places on the floor/wall that takes up a defined area where it would drain the spies energy, like a net. Downside, spies should be able to see (EMF) and shoot it off...like a mine, trap, snare.
I can't really think of another way to initiate it. If there are metallic objects, make it act as a magnetic connection, so that if a spy touches the object he loses his energy.
I don't know, but there are some brainstormed ideas...with my brain.
I still think that it could be on the merc's belt or backpack. It would be visible. Maybe a blue circle near the waist? It would look like a belt buckle I guess. Style for mercs and a nice gadget, what more could you ask for?
So, in other words, it's a mobile gadget. It's like a spy throwing down a grenade except it's a merc activating a field. Another downside could be the merc's flashlight/laser not working for a couple seconds. This would give the spy enough time to maybe dissapear into the darkness but he can't shock the merc.
I'm thinking that maybe it could be a timed thing. Like gas mask. You turn it on but you can't use flashlight/laser/visions while it is activated, but spies can't shock you or use their visions/camo and it would disable snares/bullets.
It's hard to say how this would work. Rocket, are you ready? It needs some
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwillscullypower.files.wordpress.com%2F2009%2F11%2Ftesting.jpg&hash=e8b920bb8cb863d75b2b096c93d6b8ce13d4ad18)
YAY! I think it's funny that the only inspiration I've drawn from Conviction is a gadget that could be used for mercs.
Quote from: Spekkio on April 11, 2010, 07:47:15 AM
I like how people are calling it OP even though there isn't really a gadget, but rather just a proposed end state.
I should have clarified that I was responding to FarleyFan's proposals for the gadget, not the concept of an EMP device. I quite like Westfall's idea of trap triggered EMP's. The option to switch between 'tracking' and 'EMP' could be added to Spy Traps. Right now, there isn't a lot of reason to take spy traps when opposed to other gadgets, so it could well be a useful addition.
What if you can have it as a defense feature of the Merc's suit, one that cannot be voluntarily activated, but is activated when a merc in in heavy smoke or chaff. This way, a spy cannot turn thermal vision on in smoke and instantly see where the merc is and run up to snap his neck. On the other hand, the feature could be neutralized by throwing a chaff or smoke from a distance and sending the feature into a refractory period which the spy could take advantage of.
Yeah I suggested something similar a few posts up. It would disable spy visions so the spy can't see the merc in thermal through the smoke. I'm still not decided on whether or not it should disable merc visions. Maybe it should make them fuzzy or something.
Yes, but I was specifically underlining the involuntary aspect of it
Why not just use EMF in smoke? This gadget hinders the merc more than it helps. Why would a merc NOT want a spy to use his visions? Why would a merc WANT lights to turn off around him? Come on.
IRT a passive trap, that wouldn't be very useful. I covered that in my OP...if your main advantage to the gadget is temporarily taking away the SS, the ability would only be useful in the near vicinity of a spy.
Having it be an AoE ability around the merc is an interesting thought.
What is AoE?
I believe that this would be a better gadget for the spy... just a thought but as a merc I would rather spend time chasing the spy than removing his shooting ability.
Ion, spies have chaff. Unless you are suggesting that they replace the chaff visual effect into one like the EMP then that's fine I guess. As a merc you can chase the spy AND remove his ability to shock you, thus making it easier to chase him. I'm thinking of this gadget like a gas mask. You can activate and keep on the field until the battery runs out.
It seems plausible to me so far.
i think a gadget that you could drop, not place, would be better. that way if you know a spy is near you can sly drop the gadget on the floor and it would disable his energy in a certain radius.
Quote from: I <3 U on April 13, 2010, 02:23:28 PM
i think a gadget that you could drop, not place, would be better. that way if you know a spy is near you can sly drop the gadget on the floor and it would disable his energy in a certain radius.
Why though? So the merc can counter the spies only attack? The mercs job is already easier than a spies. Why make is even easier by countering the spies only act of defense? This would be a great spy gadget, but not for a merc. It's almost like mercs getting the heartbeat sensor instead of the spies. I just do t see the point.
Quote from: tigaer on April 13, 2010, 02:41:25 PM
Quote from: I <3 U on April 13, 2010, 02:23:28 PM
i think a gadget that you could drop, not place, would be better. that way if you know a spy is near you can sly drop the gadget on the floor and it would disable his energy in a certain radius.
Why though? So the merc can counter the spies only attack? The mercs job is already easier than a spies. Why make is even easier by countering the spies only act of defense? This would be a great spy gadget, but not for a merc. It's almost like mercs getting the heartbeat sensor instead of the spies. I just do t see the point.
it's the only way i can think of implementing that wouldn't make it pointless =).
Quote from: ion.67I believe that this would be a better gadget for the spy... just a thought but as a merc I would rather spend time chasing the spy than removing his shooting ability.
Spies already have chaff. The ability would take away the spy's energy bar, which would also affect camo and *crosses fingers* HBS as well.
Taking away thermal vision would also be a huge deal if you were chasing a spy.
What about making this a spy weapon loadout? I'll explain.
Loadout A:
Sticky Shocker and ability to fire nades, use attachments like HBS and so on.
Loadout B:
Wi-Fi hacking device, ability to hack mercs and lights aswell. Can only drop nades, cannot use attachments like HBS.
Loadout C:
Jammer Suit, has a circle radius and jams all mines, radars and lights and so on in a certain range of the spy. Spy doesn't show up on EMF, ever. Will still show up on MT if not in jamming range. Can only drop nades, also cannot use attachments like HBS.
A weakness to this would be like the Scrambler perk in MW2. When your radar is jammed as a merc you know a spy is in a certain radius, and your radar gets more static the closer you get to the spy, sort of acting like a PD from DA, and he can guess nade the usual hiding spots. Another weakness would be a merc seeing lights turning off in a certain area, so he'd know where to look.
Imagine a team of spea with Loadouts A and C aggroing the mercs. That'd be intense. It'd also jam your teammates sticky shocker and radar though, so you'd have to keep distance from eachother to be successful.
Since the merc gets 3 choices for a weapon loadout, why not give spies 3 aswell? Just brainstorming. Might be interesting to see how this could evolve.
It seems weird that the jammer loadout would let a merc know you are in the area. Maybe you should just rename that lol
These loadouts would add an immense amount of change to the gameplay. Especially the jammer loadout. I think you should just forget about that one and focus on ideas for the remote hack device.
I think the way DA did the remote hack was actually well done. You had to return it to your base after you hack it. But maybe instead of making the remote hack go so slow you could make it so that the spy had to drop off the data somewhere, like his spawn or a disc drop.
The jammer would either be for spies that want to go full stealth by laying/dropping spy bullets to know where the mercs are at all times to stay out of range. How confusing would it be as a merc to only ever see your radar jammed and never find the spy? How much easier would the match be if you didn't have to worry about proxy mines? To get rid of cameras, you'd have to take a route that will jam it, so most likely walking under it, so this would also limit spies routes if they want to stay undetected with the Jammer Loadout. This gadget could be very nerve wracking for mercs, as it's that way in MW2 and that game isn't even a stealth game. The second use would be for dual aggro spies, one with Loadout A and one with C, as explained above. I think it would be very, very interesting and well worth talking about.
Remote hack = Fail
Jammer = Fail
Ion = Fail
Quote from: Ion.67 on April 14, 2010, 02:29:53 PM
Remote hack = Fail
Jammer = Fail
IMO = True and one more TRUE
Quote from: tigaer on April 14, 2010, 07:25:55 AM
The jammer would either be for spies that want to go full stealth by laying/dropping spy bullets to know where the mercs are at all times to stay out of range. How confusing would it be as a merc to only ever see your radar jammed and never find the spy? How much easier would the match be if you didn't have to worry about proxy mines? To get rid of cameras, you'd have to take a route that will jam it, so most likely walking under it, so this would also limit spies routes if they want to stay undetected with the Jammer Loadout. This gadget could be very nerve wracking for mercs, as it's that way in MW2 and that game isn't even a stealth game. The second use would be for dual aggro spies, one with Loadout A and one with C, as explained above. I think it would be very, very interesting and well worth talking about.
Well it sounds interesting but when I imagine it I can see it backfiring for spies all the time. A merc will walk into a room and know a spy is in there if his radar is jammed. And who really finds spies with their radar anyways? Other than when a spy is using a disc, the only times a spy shows up on radar is when he is tracked by a spy finder or a laser. We know how rare those are. So, it's not going to help a spy stay stealthy, rather, it's going to help mercs find spies. It's like the lame presence detectors in Double Agent but now the spy chooses to have it. Seems backwards to me. How big would you suggest the range of the jammer suit be?
The only possible way it could help spies is for aggro spies. Obviously if they can't hit mines then they will want it, but they will lose their ss. So, it seems even and not much help after all.
Maybe this should be rethought. I suggest if you want to give this jammer suit thing a chance then you start by forgetting about jamming the radar because that's counter intuitive for spies.
Go crazy. I posted it so you guys can do your thing and make it a balanced option before even thinking about testing it. That is, if you want.
Personally, I think it needs to jam a mercs radar, or else the spy could potentially be invisible the entire game if he's using spy bullets and a teammate. Atleast when a spy tries full stealth now you can see him on EMF when he's using the HB. Just my opinion.
To everyone that hates the idea, view it with an open mind. Do you really want us to simply clone CT and call it a day? Come on. Anyway, it was just an idea I had floating around in my head, so take it as that.
I don't want to clone CT, but if you suggest then you have to explain why it would be useful for spies. If you are worried about spies not being seen on EMF then just make the suit visible on EMF like normal. You tried to counter one of the suits strengths but made it useless by doing so. If a spy starts jamming the radar then a merc will instantly start searching the area. And it will only be a matter of time before the merc sees or hears something.
Maybe, since some people are saying snares aren't good enough, you could make alarm snares jam radar when they are in the proximity of a merc. Maybe the jammer suit would also set off random pings like an alarm snare when in a merc's vicinity. This would make it almost impossible to differentiate the two.
However, all this seems like a lot of trouble and testing to go through just for this jammer suit. I don't know if it would be worth it.
all the ideas on this thread aren't very good.
although i still think the emp thing for spies could work, a gun attachment like in ct coop. whether or not it should take a gadget slot idk, but i can think of a fair few places it would come in handy.
Here's an old post by kebab. You guys need to realize things are going to be tested on paper extensively untill it works, NOT ingame. It will only be tested ingame if it works on paper.
Quote from: goodkebab on March 29, 2008, 05:11:54 PM
I think you guys misunderstand the meaning of game design.
false: implement a new idea, try it out, and if it doesnt work, toss it and try a new one.
reason: waste of human resources, work should not be lossed, otherwise motivation and moral are at risk.
true: write all ideas on paper, test it on paper, schedule it on paper, and if it doesnt work on paper, toss it.
reason: paper is cheap, time is not.
I also think you guys misunderstand testing.
false: have artists and programmers work several hundred hours for an idea, and if testing means its no good, start over.
reason: any project that requires hundreds upon hundreds of man hours requires a discplined use of resources.
true: artists and programmers work on finalized game design (see beginning of post) and testing is done to find glitches, bugs, mistakes, balance issues. Testing serves the purpose of trying to break the game under normal stress conditions and to fix where needed.
reason: testing is NOT a way to design a game.
Tigaer, I told you why I don't think it would work on paper and I gave you some ideas of how to maybe make it work on paper. On paper, tell me why a stealthy spy would not care if a merc knew he was in the same room. Why would an aggro spy want to lose his ss?
I just don't know which kind of spy it benefits and how it benefits them.
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv358%2Ftigaer%2FJammerSuit.jpg&hash=b5a8702a4743219f30b08f69f25627cbb4673afa)
Other uses aside from jamming the mercs radar,
Reduces the risk of getting hit by mines and traps, deactivates them in the smallest radius, so they can still explode and kill you if you're running around right next to them.
Reduces the risk of being chased after you trip a spy trap, as the Mercs radar would jam the closer he gets to you.
Eliminates the need to chaff/shoot out lasers and other defenses, freeing up a gadget slot.
Eliminates the ability to be seen on EMF unless hacking, so whore those visions.
Possibly have the ablility to throw/roll grenades.
Am I the only one that would use the hell out of something like this? I usually go full stealth, so this is coming from somebody who goes full stealth, and I could see this being perfect for people like me. If you think it's useless for spies because the merc knows his general proximity, you haven't played DA for longer than a couple hours. You can confuse the hell out of mercs in that game with even the short range of the PD. Imagine what you could do with the range this has.
If it's really a shit idea, just tell me lol.
Well, you show 2 spies that have the jammer suit on? Is that correct? Well, that sounds like an interesting situation but then you talk about a situation where a spy has a ss even though none of them would.
That little diagram makes it look practical but like you said it would require intense teamwork to really work. I still think to make this more useful the suit should set off random pings on the merc's sound reticule to be used in conjunction with alarm snares for a very nice strategy.
The same thing is in MW2 and is basically thought of as one of the worst perks of the game. It gives away your position, and that game isn't about stealth at all. Having the drop on someone is what SC is about.
Quote from: FarleyFan on April 15, 2010, 09:24:21 PM
Well, you show 2 spies that have the jammer suit on? Is that correct? Well, that sounds like an interesting situation but then you talk about a situation where a spy has a ss even though none of them would.
That little diagram makes it look practical but like you said it would require intense teamwork to really work. I still think to make this more useful the suit should set off random pings on the merc's sound reticule to be used in conjunction with alarm snares for a very nice strategy.
Sorry I didn't make it clear, the point of the diagram is to show that the Merc would t actually know where you were if he starts to get static, you could be litterally anywhere around him, it becomes a guessing game from there.
Think about this. The merc walks into, say, Pirates room from Greek. As soon as he goes through the entrance his radar becomes jammed and he knows that a spy is there. Once mercs figure out the range of the jammer suit they will be able to narrow down where this spy will be.
I just don't think this could really work and be useful for spies.
You'd have to make the range gigantic, like 30 yards for the radius. But really, what good would jamming the merc's radar do? Spies are hardly tracked by mercs from my experience.
The main positive that you talked about would be the immunity to mines. But is that really worth losing your sticky shocker and ability to stay hidden without suspicion? I don't think so. It might be but I can't really say.
I don't have a problem adding strategic elements to make the game deeper but I don't if this particular "suit" could help spies too much.
I thought the EMP was supposed to be for the Merc's use.....
What about getting rid of jamming radar then? And make it where it only jams the radar if your tracked or have a disk. And then since you wouldn't need chaff, what about making an EMP greande, that when thrown acts as a SS shocking the merc in it's blast radius, so you would have to move in close to get the shock. Idk. Just an brainstorm really, so I guess just forget it and move on lol.
I think removing the jamming radar would actually help the spy. So yeah, I'd forget that. You had a decent idea with the suit I just don't think the original specs would work out too well.
How about a radar jammer that works whenever you activate it, and can be thrown, dropped, planted, etc. Instead of having it as a constant effect.
You mean like DA? I guess it could work. Not sure. The problem I see is that the jammer was in DA so that it would trick the presence detector. What could it jam in project stealth that makes it a worthy gadget?
this whole idea started based on the wrong motivation. camnet is not inherently flawed, it was just implemented poorly. it can perfectly be balanced just by placement and adding/taking away light/laser/special visions.
i also think adding some emp stuff on both sides is a bad idea. svm is all about asymmetry.
furthermore, some devs seem to have a very bad understanding of balancing a game:
Quote from: frvge on April 11, 2010, 06:10:22 PM
I disagree that EVERYTHING should have a hard-counter. Most, yes.
in fact, most stuff shouldn't. basing a game rather on hard counters gives you command'n'conquer, basing it rather on soft counters gives you starcraft. HUGE difference.
i also wonder if some folks here haven't learned anything from sc:da...
Define 'softcounter'. Either it counters, or it doesn't, AFAIK?
Quote from: frvge on May 05, 2010, 03:07:40 PM
Define 'softcounter'. Either it counters, or it doesn't, AFAIK?
I'm taking a wild stab at what it is!
Hard Counter:"This" stops "That"
(Sticky Shocker:Merc) [bad example]
Soft Counter:"This" stops "That", "That", "That", and "That"
(Chaff:Visions/Mines/Reload/Radar)
I never played Starcraft (or rather learned about it way late) but I assume that rather than one Unit being the counter to another (Anti-Air Turret Vs Planes in C&C Logic), many things COULD be a viable counter.... if you used them correctly.
Just my guess!
Quote from: Rambo on May 05, 2010, 02:35:15 PM
this whole idea started based on the wrong motivation. camnet is not inherently flawed, it was just implemented poorly. it can perfectly be balanced just by placement and adding/taking away light/laser/special visions.
i also think adding some emp stuff on both sides is a bad idea. svm is all about asymmetry.
The idea started on the motivation that taking away the spy's energy could be useful. However, it wouldn't be useful if it's only implemented in ways where you could have killed the spy instead. This is why poison mines are usually a better option than spy traps; you know where the spy is, and you have 15 seconds to kill him while he bee-lines to the health box. With traps, you know where the spy is and still need to kill him all by yourself. The same dilemma is with flares/grenades...if you shoot a flare into an area to light up the spy's presence, you probably could've hit him with a grenade.
I posted to try to brainstorm regarding how to implement this ability without overlapping with something else that would kill the spies already.
And camnet is gay no matter what. Even if it were perfectly balanced (which is impossible IMO, but good luck to the devs for trying), it slows down the game considerably by allowing the mercs to camp.
Quote from: frvgeDefine 'softcounter'. Either it counters, or it doesn't, AFAIK?
A hard counter is something that has a specific counter and nothing else. Because it is specialized, it does this counter extremely well. For example, the gasmask will counter smoke grenades and cams, making them essentially useless while the mask is active. It won't do a darn thing to help you against anything else the spy does, though, so if the spy doesn't take smoke and cams then you wasted a gadget slot. This is poor design in the context of the game because it leads to gadget war guessing games.
A soft counter is something that counters multiple things, but doesn't render the things it counters completely useless. All other gadgets in the game fall under this category.
How would the EMP not distort the merc his helmet functions let alone not fry his brains while setting it off?
Who cares? Same way chaff doesn't disable spy electronics along with everything else. It's a game.
Are you the same type of guy who watches sci-fi movies and balks at their use of Bernoulli's laws for flying craft in a vacuum?
Spek, you were just going crazy about a nautical compass on land. Just saying. I agree, realism nuts suck, but kind of bad timing.
Quote from: FarleyFan on May 06, 2010, 02:29:18 AM
Spek, you were just going crazy about a nautical compass on land. Just saying. I agree, realism nuts suck, but kind of bad timing.
Well, I was pointing out the absurdity of something, and the fact that most people aren't going to understand bearing calls if you even attempted to use it. Really, I could care less about that if it didn't obstruct your vision.
Yea yea, it's "only" a few pixels, but how big do you think cams are at a medium distance?
it's toggleable anyway so who gives a crap, I'm just gonna disable it :D