Hi, I played yesterday Deftech Story, and I realised if you are on a crate you cannot grab a mercenary from it, now I don't know what stops a spy from grabbing a mercenaries legs and drop him to his death.
Saying that I got jumped by a merc and got killed :(.
Or if that too much if there is no rail and you are holding on a window there is no option of grabbing a merc either :(
Quote from: DreadStunLock on July 11, 2010, 06:17:22 PM
Hi, I played yesterday Deftech Story, and I realised if you are on a crate you cannot grab a mercenary from it, now I don't know what stops a spy from grabbing a mercenaries legs and drop him to his death.
Saying that I got jumped by a merc and got killed :(.
Or if that too much if there is no rail and you are holding on a window there is no option of grabbing a merc either :(
Dear Young Padwan,
You are greatly mistaken , Yes you can grab a merc when hes standing on top of a box , it could have been that there was lag and you elbowed him. the rail grab in the windows was never apart of chaostheory because it was never thought of at the time and around that time chaostheory was the peak to start the flow of other interaction capabilities. So in regards to all this
ya might wanna do your research more kiddo
Your epic Pwner , The one ,The Only..,
AgentX_003 . gg nubz.
If you read his post, you would know that he was saying you can't ledge grab whilst hanging a box, which is true. That could be a good addition in my opinion :)
Quote from: STON3COLDKILLA on July 11, 2010, 06:30:38 PM
If you read his post, you would know that he was saying you can't ledge grab whilst hanging a box, which is true. That could be a good addition in my opinion :)
he wasnt specific ..he did not once say the word hanging O_O.
Quote from: AgentX_003 on July 11, 2010, 06:26:11 PM
Your epic Pwner , The one ,The Only..,
AgentX_003 . gg nubz.
Everyone knows you are terrible at SCCT. Just face it. :D I can't wait to play against you again so I can get the taste of victory.
Quote from: AgentX_003 on July 11, 2010, 06:34:58 PM
Quote from: STON3COLDKILLA on July 11, 2010, 06:30:38 PM
If you read his post, you would know that he was saying you can't ledge grab whilst hanging a box, which is true. That could be a good addition in my opinion :)
he wasnt specific ..he did not once say the word hanging O_O.
Maybe I'm just late to the game and he recently changed it...
But the topic is...
"Grab from Ledge"
I think that's pretty specific. ;)
Quote from: CurdyMilk on July 11, 2010, 07:23:56 PM
Quote from: AgentX_003 on July 11, 2010, 06:26:11 PM
Your epic Pwner , The one ,The Only..,
AgentX_003 . gg nubz.
Everyone knows you are terrible at SCCT. Just face it. :D I can't wait to play against you again so I can get the taste of victory.
such a troll , ive rolled you more times then a tobacco processing plant =/.
I don't care who the guy is Smurfing doesnt count =/ ..
Quote from: CurdyMilk on July 11, 2010, 07:23:56 PM
Quote from: AgentX_003 on July 11, 2010, 06:26:11 PM
Your epic Pwner , The one ,The Only..,
AgentX_003 . gg nubz.
Everyone knows you are terrible at SCCT. Just face it. :D I can't wait to play against you again so I can get the taste of victory.
I nearly cried tears of joy when I was watching agent from my deathcam.I turned the overlay off and tapped keys randomly so I could pretend it was me. >_>
You sir are retarded WHY THE FUCK! would I even talk about lag grabbing from behind and instead of grab the lag would cause me hitting him instead of grabbing, you sir are not a pwner you are a copy of Mazen, and every one knows that, the prove is on Webzs channel where you flame with your boyfriend moxy and can't take a beat from a guy who is fucking better than you, so shut the hell up, and start understanding and using your Real Life brain instead of nolife SCCT Brain which you still suck at.
Best regards Dreadstunlock to Gaygent_003
Quote from: DreadStunLock on July 11, 2010, 10:15:18 PM
You sir are retarded WHY THE FUCK! would I even talk about lag grabbing from behind and instead of grab the lag would cause me hitting him instead of grabbing, you sir are not a pwner you are a copy of Mazen, and every one knows that, the prove is on Webzs channel where you flame with your boyfriend moxy and can't take a beat from a guy who is fucking better than you, so shut the hell up, and start understanding and using your Real Life brain instead of nolife SCCT Brain which you still suck at.
Best regards Dreadstunlock to Gaygent_003
umad?
Quote from: DreadStunLock on July 11, 2010, 10:15:18 PM
You sir are retarded WHY THE FUCK! would I even talk about lag grabbing from behind and instead of grab the lag would cause me hitting him instead of grabbing, you sir are not a pwner you are a copy of Mazen, and every one knows that, the prove is on Webzs channel where you flame with your boyfriend moxy and can't take a beat from a guy who is fucking better than you, so shut the hell up, and start understanding and using your Real Life brain instead of nolife SCCT Brain which you still suck at.
Best regards Dreadstunlock to Gaygent_003
how about stop riding the coattails of kingwebs.its easy for someone to record one side of a match and say they are better then someone , rather then recording the entire round.
We did infact end up tying up the round with 1 life a piece and moxy snapping king webs neck and me finishing the objective in mr.burns office. , know your facts before you speak boy.
Your just mad because i laid the smackdown on you in Steelsquat when you played with stevethecookie, charging into my cam like a noob :D.
Inclosing just as Tigaer said, LoL u madbro :D ?
Personal 'challenges' can go via PM.
Yeah I guess it was stupid of me to flame, Agent is not even worth to flame on since his just another piece of crap who is a sore loser. I know that SCCT Community knows he sucks, aswell as he can't afford SCCT and he plays with pirated version via Tunngle so yeah I am already better than him and I don't care what others say :) Long rule me
Best Regards.......PECAQUE!
dread I can honestly say that tunngle is one of the best ways to play SCCT since UBI.com is populated by the polish I own several copies of SCCT and I still play on tunngle/hamachi
I hope Agent plays better than his spelling checker.
Quote from: monterto on July 12, 2010, 12:23:25 AM
dread I can honestly say that tunngle is one of the best ways to play SCCT since UBI.com is populated by the polish I own several copies of SCCT and I still play on tunngle/hamachi
I don't think so.
Quote from: unskilled on July 12, 2010, 01:40:48 AM
Quote from: monterto on July 12, 2010, 12:23:25 AM
dread I can honestly say that tunngle is one of the best ways to play SCCT since UBI.com is populated by the polish I own several copies of SCCT and I still play on tunngle/hamachi
I don't think so.
I don't think so either. But being a bit more vague would help with the discussion. Maybe. Possibly. No, not at all.
He said grabbing from a "crate". What kind of crates have rails on them?
Quote from: AgentX_003 on July 11, 2010, 06:26:11 PM
the rail grab in the windows was never apart of chaostheory because it was never thought of at the time and around that time chaostheory was the peak to start the flow of other interaction capabilities.
man what
Please put it in, make up a lame animation for all i care...
What would make it interesting is if you pulled him off a ledge it'd have to be from a certain height:
a. death (high)
b. knocked out (medium)
c. gets back up (low)
This will make the game more realistic and strategic.
Quote from: xJxAxCxKx on July 13, 2010, 04:21:58 AM
Please put it in, make up a lame animation for all i care...
What would make it interesting is if you pulled him off a ledge it'd have to be from a certain height:
a. death (high)
b. knocked out (medium)
c. gets back up (low)
This will make the game more realistic and strategic.
I agree. I always thought it looked stupid when you die from falling 3 feet off the ledge in the generators area in Polar Base.
Or if that doesn't work out you could make a different kill animation from a lower height so it doesn't look stupid. Cracking the neck from the front (maybe stabbing) and then throwing over the small ledge.
Quote from: xJxAxCxKx on July 13, 2010, 04:21:58 AM
Please put it in, make up a lame animation for all i care...
What would make it interesting is if you pulled him off a ledge it'd have to be from a certain height:
a. death (high)
b. knocked out (medium)
c. gets back up (low)
This will make the game more realistic and strategic.
Good idea but, it should make damage in % for example from 10m it kill so from 5m hight rail it will make 50% damage etc. :P
Quote from: FarleyFan on July 12, 2010, 11:16:21 PM
He said grabbing from a "crate". What kind of crates have rails on them?
Sigh* That the whole point, why on earth everything should have a rail on it??? What stops a spy grabbing mercenaries legs while his hanging on a crate and drop him off?
Think of Conviction Grab from Ledge mechanics?
Quote from: DreadStunLock on July 13, 2010, 12:16:03 PM...What stops a spy grabbing mercenaries legs while his hanging on a crate and drop him off?
answer is the programmer :) (kidding)
Quote from: xJxAxCxKx on July 13, 2010, 04:21:58 AM
Please put it in, make up a lame animation for all i care...
What would make it interesting is if you pulled him off a ledge it'd have to be from a certain height:
a. death (high)
b. knocked out (medium)
c. gets back up (low)
This will make the game more realistic and strategic.
good idea ;)
Every rail grab/crate grab should be instant death. Maybe have the animation be a quick neck snap then throw I don't care. Way to risky to try for only a 50% health decrease.
If a merc was standing at the top of a staircase with his back towards the stairs and a spy elbows him backwards. Will the merc trip over and barrelroll down?
Quote from: DreadStunLock on July 13, 2010, 12:16:03 PM
Quote from: FarleyFan on July 12, 2010, 11:16:21 PM
He said grabbing from a "crate". What kind of crates have rails on them?
Sigh* That the whole point, why on earth everything should have a rail on it??? What stops a spy grabbing mercenaries legs while his hanging on a crate and drop him off?
Think of Conviction Grab from Ledge mechanics?
I was standing up for you against the evil one they call Agent, pay attention.
Quote from: FarleyFan on July 13, 2010, 10:35:48 PM
Quote from: DreadStunLock on July 13, 2010, 12:16:03 PM
Quote from: FarleyFan on July 12, 2010, 11:16:21 PM
He said grabbing from a "crate". What kind of crates have rails on them?
Sigh* That the whole point, why on earth everything should have a rail on it??? What stops a spy grabbing mercenaries legs while his hanging on a crate and drop him off?
Think of Conviction Grab from Ledge mechanics?
Thank you :)
I was standing up for you against the evil one they call Agent, pay attention.
Quote from: Wh1tE_Dw4rF on July 13, 2010, 10:17:21 PM
If a merc was standing at the top of a staircase with his back towards the stairs and a spy elbows him backwards. Will the merc trip over and barrelroll down?
Now... do a barrelroll!
The answer is: nope. I don't think that's a good idea.
Quote from: DreadStunLock on July 13, 2010, 11:19:41 PM
Quote from: FarleyFan on July 13, 2010, 10:35:48 PM
Quote from: DreadStunLock on July 13, 2010, 12:16:03 PM
Quote from: FarleyFan on July 12, 2010, 11:16:21 PM
He said grabbing from a "crate". What kind of crates have rails on them?
Sigh* That the whole point, why on earth everything should have a rail on it??? What stops a spy grabbing mercenaries legs while his hanging on a crate and drop him off?
Think of Conviction Grab from Ledge mechanics?
Thank you :)
I was standing up for you against the evil one they call Agent, pay attention.
You're welcome but you're still 100% and irreversibly wrong about Mark and Execute.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!
Mark n Execute does not suck!!!
It's just needs a tweaq and IMO I think it would be a great logo type of a thingy...Uhmm...
BACK TO THE TOPIC! Yeah I should be able to Grab people and drop them to their death if I am on a crate and I am hanging off it and there should be no rail to interfere with that action :(
You said that M and E is an icon for the splinter cell franchise like the NV goggles. No tweaq will ever make it that. There won't be mark and execute in PS so don't make a topic about that if you planned to.
On topic: I agree.
Quote from: Farley4Fan on July 14, 2010, 11:20:44 PM
You said that M and E is an icon for the splinter cell franchise like the NV goggles. No tweaq will ever make it that. There won't be mark and execute in PS so don't make a topic about that if you planned to.
On topic: I agree.
LIES LIES LIES LIES!!! I REFUSE TO BELIEVE QQ
I know I screwed up defending Conviction from the 50+ year old Agent :( But I will still fight for that Splinter Cell Conviction is a Splinter Cell no matter what that guy says >:(
Quote from: DreadStunLock on July 15, 2010, 10:20:22 AM
Quote from: Farley4Fan on July 14, 2010, 11:20:44 PM
You said that M and E is an icon for the splinter cell franchise like the NV goggles. No tweaq will ever make it that. There won't be mark and execute in PS so don't make a topic about that if you planned to.
On topic: I agree.
LIES LIES LIES LIES!!! I REFUSE TO BELIEVE QQ
I know I screwed up defending Conviction from the 50+ year old Agent :( But I will still fight for that Splinter Cell Conviction is a Splinter Cell no matter what that guy says >:(
He's got a point. It does say Splinter Cell on the box.
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.consolemonster.com%2Fimages%2Fnews%2FSCC360.jpg&hash=f131371250d0fc68bc97fc7b1735c5737c5365d9)
-Sam and Company
-Gun(s)
-Ability to walk slowly
-Goggles that in essence make dark spots irrelevant
-A ridiculous plot that threatens Peace only to be stopped by Sam and Company
-AI that finds any reason to walk away from it's position it was originally at
...The more I think about it, the more I think they just took DA and added M&E to it. Then took away the whole "Good or Bad ending" Gimmick.
...Oh and SvM...
;D
EDIT:
...and moving bodies...
:"( IT'S A SPLINTER .....Why am.....Back to the topic...
Anyone on the PS forums who thinks SCC is worthy of the phrases 'Tom Clancy's' or 'Splinter Cell' gets insta-banned by a pink, invisible unicorn. You don't want to know how long it took to get her trained like that. :-*
Quote from: DreadStunLock on July 15, 2010, 10:20:22 AM
Quote from: Farley4Fan on July 14, 2010, 11:20:44 PM
You said that M and E is an icon for the splinter cell franchise like the NV goggles. No tweaq will ever make it that. There won't be mark and execute in PS so don't make a topic about that if you planned to.
On topic: I agree.
LIES LIES LIES LIES!!! I REFUSE TO BELIEVE QQ
I know I screwed up defending Conviction from the 50+ year old Agent :( But I will still fight for that Splinter Cell Conviction is a Splinter Cell no matter what that guy says >:(
Agent?
Look how huge Sam's forehead looks on the box art. He looks like the big head mode from NBA Jam.
@ Frvge, I trained a pony to bite off Agent's weener. So far he hasn't come back yet.
Quote from: comicsserg on July 13, 2010, 03:39:32 PM
Quote from: DreadStunLock on July 13, 2010, 12:16:03 PM...What stops a spy grabbing mercenaries legs while his hanging on a crate and drop him off?
answer is the programmer :) (kidding)
I think this is a fantastic response for 2 reasons. The first is a video game will only do it is told to (by the programmer) and second, the game doesn't have to be true to life, It has to be fun and competitive, and balanced.
/thread........?
And SCC is, at its core, a shooter. It's a shooter in drag. M&E is just a way to give 12 year old boys raging boners. The only good part of SCC is when Sam slaps grim. Twice. KEEPIN' IT REAL!
:( But....but......it's still a splinter cell >:( >:( >:(
Quote from: DreadStunLock on July 15, 2010, 03:35:08 PM
:( But....but......it's still a splinter cell >:( >:( >:(
I vote ban.
Mean bastard :"(
No. You just took it that one inch too far.
Now gtfo.
Quote from: DreadStunLock on July 15, 2010, 03:35:08 PM
:( But....but......it's still a splinter cell >:( >:( >:(
Don't worry Bra. I get what you mean.
I believe what he means to say is that:
"It's still a Splinter Cell in the same sense that Metal Gear Acid for the PSP is still a Metal Gear game. While it shifts the focus in another direction; it still has all the familiarity of past Splinter Cells to engage old players. Again, an obvious sidestep from the original formula, but sometimes you need to sidestep to revitalize a franchise.
Think about the next Splinter Cell. If it goes back to the original formula, then ALL those people that bought and loved Conviction will be buying it too. Giving 'Old Skool' Splinter Cell a broader fanbase".
...Or something like that.
Quote from: Cronky on July 15, 2010, 11:14:58 AM
-Sam and Company
-Gun(s)
-Ability to walk slowly
-Goggles that in essence make dark spots irrelevant
-A ridiculous plot that threatens Peace only to be stopped by Sam and Company
-AI that finds any reason to walk away from it's position it was originally at
You forgot to add "is a stealth game".
(oh wait lol)
Quote from: B-3A Misty Lady on July 15, 2010, 07:28:22 PM
Quote from: Cronky on July 15, 2010, 11:14:58 AM
-Sam and Company
-Gun(s)
-Ability to walk slowly
-Goggles that in essence make dark spots irrelevant
-A ridiculous plot that threatens Peace only to be stopped by Sam and Company
-AI that finds any reason to walk away from it's position it was originally at
You forgot to add "is a stealth game".
(oh wait lol)
Whoa now. Don't be hatin. ;)
Most games can be a stealth game if played... interestingly, and Conviction has more stealth than a lot of other games. Ninja Gaiden for example has no stealth regardless of the fact that Ryu is a Ninja. Now in comparison to the other Splinter Cells, yes, there is a higher focus on shooting people. Though aside from the unavoidable sequences in which you're forced to be caught, everything can be played pretty quietly. Disregarding the stealth aspect of the game simply because it's not up to par with the others in the series does not change the fact that the game is still a "Stealth Game".
;D
This is getting off topic even more than it already was.
NO ITS NOT A STEALTH GAME.
You could just as well be saying that GTA is a stealth game because you can sneak.
It's not.
GTA having a sneaking ability does indeed not make it a stealth game, but it does give it a stealth aspect if sneaking actually hides your presence.
Conviction on the other hand has a multitude of features that make stealth very viable. Even M&E is primarily supposed to be used for Multiple Stealth Kills. While it can be played as an action game, it's primary focus is still stealth.
Again, I don't think this is the SAME stealth as previous Splinter Cells but rather a sidestepped, altered, version of the classic Splinter Cell Formula.
Much like Metal Gear Acid is an altered version of the Metal Gear Solid gameplay.
::)
Afaik Acid was a card game for GBC?
That's just low.
Splinter cell conviction "pure stealth" is like playing frogger.
"Ok, just wait for this guy to go then my timing will be good until this guy says the F word and then I know it's okay to go and then if these guys don't move out the single doorway that i must go through to advance i will just mark and execute all three of them with a silenced pistol so that way i am still stealthy and then I can just barely dodge through these guys man playing stealthy is so unorthodox why am i doing this when I could just kill everyone here I'll just push this button alright everyone is dead cool that means no one knows i'm here if everyone is dead and OMG A HELICOPTERS PEW PEW PEW!!!!"
Quote from: Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet on July 15, 2010, 10:15:51 PM
Afaik Acid was a card game for GBC?
That's just low.
It's for the PSP. It did involve cards though.
But you can say the same about... Portable Ops, Acid 2, and Peace Walker, or hell.. throw in that VR Mission game of Metal Gear... even more hell, why not throw in the original Metal Gears to show the difference between what it was to what it is.
It's all the same mechanics tweaked to make it different in each respective series.
Quote from: Farley4Fan on July 15, 2010, 11:01:23 PM
Splinter cell conviction "pure stealth" is like playing frogger.
"Ok, just wait for this guy to go then my timing will be good until this guy says the F word and then I know it's okay to go and then if these guys don't move out the single doorway that i must go through to advance i will just mark and execute all three of them with a silenced pistol so that way i am still stealthy and then I can just barely dodge through these guys man playing stealthy is so unorthodox why am i doing this when I could just kill everyone here I'll just push this button alright everyone is dead cool that means no one knows i'm here if everyone is dead and OMG A HELICOPTERS PEW PEW PEW!!!!"
I never said Convictions stealth was perfect. Though that is still being stealthy. Shooting someone in the head without alerting all the guards, marking and executing 3 people that are in your way, shooting something to distract the AI to another place are all Stealth mechanics. Again, they put forced sequences that flipped the action mode into play, but that could be seen as a contrast to how you were supposed to be playing the rest of the game.
They made the game so you could play it how you wanted. Sneaking wasn't supposed to be easy, but if you could do it then good for you. You could play it pure action too, which was much easier. Just because the option is there doesn't mean the game lost it's primary focus. Most all the features still related to stealth.
Just because you didn't like how it was implemented and changed does not change the fact that it was still a Stealth game.
THAT IS ALL :P
Quote from: Cronky on July 16, 2010, 08:48:23 AM
Again, they put forced sequences that flipped the action mode into play, but that could be seen as a contrast to how you were supposed to be playing the rest of the game.
yeeeeeeeah
I love Peace Walker but they took out some things that I wish they hadn't (BODY DRAGGING ARRRGGH).
I'm gonna say this again because I still think it's a good point.
Oblivion/Fallout. There are stealth options. For those who can use stealth, good for them. The option is there no matter how unorthodox/imperfect it may be. Has it ever, EVER, been called a stealth/action game? No.
In fact, the Fallout stealth reminds me of Conviction because I can just automatically aim for someone's head and push my win button and continue being hidden within Fallout's 2 phase (hidden or not) lame ass stealth system. Yawn.
I know it's pathetic that Conviction still irks me. I don't hate it. People just try to pass it off as another entry in the series when it may as well be a whole new series.
On topic:
I think that PS has to feel a bit more natural and less blocky/predetermined than CT/PT. Obviously they had less power to work with. It's hard to say what I'm getting at but I'll put it this way. If I want to grab a guy off a ledge and throw him down then I should be able to do that even if there is not a rail there. There shouldn't be predetermined areas where you can kill other players, or at least try to minimize them.
By predetermined I mean thing like rails, pillars to split jump between like Deftech just so you can maybe do it once in a couple dozen full moons, horizontal pipes to do the inverse neck grab stuck randomly around the map, these predetermined areas make things predictable and therefore useless. My suggestion would be (to the mappers) to make these areas plentiful or don't use them at all. Having one place on the map to split jump is a waste of time imo. Make a large area made with narrow hallways so that there isn't one spot the mercs are predicting, make a spy be able to grab a merc off any ledge regardless of rail, this is all just a big mess of text huh?
I'd like to see a more natural feel to the game than the blockiness of CT where it almost felt like Legos. Interactivity of the map is key, maps that change, maps that have multiple entry/exit points, designated areas for certain areas such as rail grabbing/split jumping lead to blockiness, the pause between animations led to this as well. How is the fluidity of motion so far? Are you guys planning ways to make it flow better?
When a spy climbs up a box I'd rather see him go right into movement whereas in CT they would actually pause after climbing and then you could proceed. After snapping a mercs neck you stand straight up, pause, and then you can move.
ha I kinda went off topic when I said "on topic".
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/110/1106642p2.html (http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/110/1106642p2.html)
Looks like the new Bond game is borrowing from Conviction. That I don't really mind, mark and execute belongs in Bond more than Splinter Cell even if it still is totally lame. It says "1 melee kill and you get a slow mo mode where headshots are easy" - something along those lines. Imo, it's devolving the industry (things like LKP, M+E, for 1 melee you get a win nuke button yayz)...
Maybe they'll do it better than Ubi did. I actually don't mind it when you go into slow mo and you can control the shots and their order YOURSELF, rather than just watch Bond/Fisher/Bourne/Bauer do it. Kind of like Dead Eye in RDR. If there absolutely has to be Mark and Sexecute for the next splinter cell then they should do it like Dead Eye.
Fixed link.
Speaking off Split jumps, would be really awesome if that could be used a bit more often in PS, I mean making someway that a spy jumps just a little or on torso higher than ussualy, it is kind of unrealistic maybe. But it will bring back a great move. :/
Quote from: Farley4Fan on July 16, 2010, 10:29:25 AM
I love Peace Walker but they took out some things that I wish they hadn't (BODY DRAGGING ARRRGGH).
I'm gonna say this again because I still think it's a good point.
Oblivion/Fallout. There are stealth options. For those who can use stealth, good for them. The option is there no matter how unorthodox/imperfect it may be. Has it ever, EVER, been called a stealth/action game? No.
In fact, the Fallout stealth reminds me of Conviction because I can just automatically aim for someone's head and push my win button and continue being hidden within Fallout's 2 phase (hidden or not) lame ass stealth system. Yawn.
I know it's pathetic that Conviction still irks me. I don't hate it. People just try to pass it off as another entry in the series when it may as well be a whole new series.
And that's how I see Conviction. It's a Splinter Cell game in the same way that Portable Ops/Acid/Peace Walker are Metal Gear games. They share a name, characters, and very basic elements of gameplay, but they are unique from eachother. Conviction being the Action Stealth version of Splinter Cell compared to the Full Stealth of the previous iterations.
Quote from: Farley4Fan on July 16, 2010, 10:29:25 AM
On topic:
-text-
I like what you got going on here. Fluid motion out of animations is something CT never did have. Even if the pause was less than a second, it still begs the question on why it is there. Even though it was obvious why it was...
It's a matter of how close cut the animations are. Much like your example of neck breaks, the animation ended with the spy standing there. If it was cut off as the spy was going to his default upright position then it would shave that tiny pause off. Since... there is no need to see him go upright for the sake of anything.
At least that's my understanding of it.
As for more fluid map interactivity as with the Split Jump and Ledge grabs. I do believe that it should be more open as to where you can use it, but it being TOO open could be a problem (at least in my mind).
The rail grab vs a box grab (Such as the deftec example from before) makes sense as to why the box one doesn't work. Lest another animation be made where the spy just like... drags the foot of the Merc off. Obviously couldn't use the rail animation for the box because the Spy used the tension from the Merc on the rail to not fall off.
It makes me wonder if the box grab could be a non-instant kill (As I think was mentioned before) move simply because I imagine the Merc landing on his feet, but instead depending on the height it could either do minor damage and/or Knock outs. Have to figure out how you would balance it so that Spies couldn't just pull them down then immediately jump on them, or if it would be unfair that the spies would then have a huge amount of places to pull a Merc, but that's for another post entirely.
Quote from: Cronky on July 15, 2010, 07:40:57 PM
Most games can be a stealth game if played... interestingly, and Conviction has more stealth than a lot of other games. Ninja Gaiden for example has no stealth regardless of the fact that Ryu is a Ninja.
Holy misdirection batman! Is that a logical fallacy I see here!
Quote from: Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet on July 15, 2010, 08:35:54 PM
NO ITS NOT A STEALTH GAME.
Conviction is by far more stealthy than any previous Splinter Cell.
Quote from: MulleDK19 on July 17, 2010, 07:10:20 AM
Quote from: Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet on July 15, 2010, 08:35:54 PM
NO ITS NOT A STEALTH GAME.
Conviction is by far more stealthy than any previous Splinter Cell.
i c wut u did thar
And Cronky I like the idea of a "box grab" being non fatal. When I imagine having my foot pulled off a ledge I can also imagine having the time/position to react in a way so that I could live. If I am literally hurled off a railing then I doubt I could have the awareness to, well, not die. But realism isn't the main reason I can see this working. I can also see having it only knock out the merc for a good 7-8 seconds as a good addition to gameplay even if it's not realistic. What I'm saying is that realism isn't too important but it can't hurt if it was done for gameplay purposes.
It should be a quick animation. Almost as quick as tripping someone would be. Just a quick grab and pull. The merc would land on his side and get knocked out for a determined amount of time. This way the size of the box does not matter. But on the flip side you could make it so the size of the box DOES matter. Obviously the higher the box the longer the merc would be knocked out, but if the merc is grabbed over a railing and thrown headfirst into the ground, he dies.
No matter the height, I say if the merc is thrown from the a railing, he should die. There is a simple fix for the small height rail kills like the generators on polar base: don't put rails around ledges that are 5 feet off the ground. If a merc is pulled from a ledge w/o a rail he should not die unless his health was low before falling. This non lethal ledge grab should take a way a portion of health, though.
I feel like I could have explained why I like this with just one sentence.
Quote from: monterto on July 17, 2010, 06:23:34 AM
Quote from: Cronky on July 15, 2010, 07:40:57 PM
Most games can be a stealth game if played... interestingly, and Conviction has more stealth than a lot of other games. Ninja Gaiden for example has no stealth regardless of the fact that Ryu is a Ninja.
Holy misdirection batman! Is that a logical fallacy I see here!
Hahahaha, I definitely didn't go at that point very well.
I MEANT for it to be a comparison to non-stealth games having the ability to "Stealth" situations versus Conviction that relies on stealth throughout the majority of the game. Such as having the Cloak in Halo doesn't mean that Halo is a Stealth Oriented game. Conviction having a multitude of features pertaining the the stealth gameplay does.
(The black and white mode, Goggles, Silencers, AI, Gadgets, M&E, etc)
...The ninja gaiden part... Well I just find that damn ironic.
Quote from: Farley4Fan on July 17, 2010, 08:08:49 AM
I feel like I could have explained why I like this with just one sentence.
Welcome to my world ;D
But yeah, I like the idea that the box grab is one predetermined time. Sounds like a lot more work for each height to have some formula calculated to give some random ass time for the Merc to be knocked out.
It may be annoying when things like the short ledge drops happen, but that's something that could just be tolerated... much like short drops are already.
An amount of health taken away is also good. I like that it IS Non-Lethal, but can certainly kill if given the right situation. 1/2 or 1/4 seems like it would be the best bets for me. 1/2 because Spies don't have anything other than dropping on you or choking you out to kill you. So health isn't really a problem. 1/4 because if it's not balanced that a Spy could wait till you get up and drop on you, then you'd still live after a jump (If playing non-instant kill drops).
I'm just gonna leave it at that lest I make this post any longer than it already is.
Wow this is a first post for me after a REALLY long hiatus. (School eats time up really well)
Perhaps it would be possible for the devs to create a way for certain ledges to produce a fatal fall and some to produce a non-fatal fall. Maybe it could be volume based so you place a "fatal volume" on certain ledges and a "non-fatal volume" on others.
In any case it seems though like adding straight up box pulls might change the balance of the game far too much. It would almost make any single ledge a spy's weapon and may limit map developers when they try to produce maps.
Think about how that would change the balance of the game I mean a level like Missile Silo would get ridiculous.
I guess you did not read the whole post either, one person already came up with the idea of health reduce upon different heights.
And what Missile strike part are you talking about?
If on the last mission a spy will be killed before he manages to drop down and grab the ledge, and if a merc is dumb enough to get close well it's his fault.
I think a ledge grab should be a kill. Period. I wouldn't mind slew of animations, depending on height, to make the kill more believable.
Quote from: monterto on July 25, 2010, 03:54:34 AM
I think a ledge grab should be a kill. Period. I wouldn't mind slew of animations, depending on height, to make the kill more believable.
The problem with that is the same as mentioned above by psyichic. This thread is trying to say that a "Ledge Grab" could be one of two types of grabs. Either:
-A Rail Grab: What you see in CT. Merc goes head first to his death
and
-A "Box" Grab: Any grab outside of a rail where it would make sense. Such as the box up near the catwalk on Deftec.
Making both of these fatal would be widely unbalanced because it would be too easy to get a ledge kill. Making the Box grab not fatal could be a nice addition to gameplay. OR... the idea could just be tossed and no one would care. ;D
My thoughts on missile strike are directed at all the sectors. In the first sector on top of the bunkers that would turn the merc's observation point there into basically a death trap. Second sector above the drop boxes it wouldn't be as common but getting "box" grabbed from one of the upper levels.
The idea of fatal vs. non fatal volumes was just a suggestion on a way to differentiate between a ledge grab being fatal or non fatal. I have no real opinion on whether it should produce damage or not depending upon height. I say just make it easier for mappers to balance it the way they need to balance it. We have alot of great mappers around here. I say if we give them the options everything will take care of itself since they understand how to balance maps pretty damn well.
Quote from: Cronky on July 25, 2010, 04:48:14 AM
Quote from: monterto on July 25, 2010, 03:54:34 AM
I think a ledge grab should be a kill. Period. I wouldn't mind slew of animations, depending on height, to make the kill more believable.
The problem with that is the same as mentioned above by psyichic. This thread is trying to say that a "Ledge Grab" could be one of two types of grabs. Either:
Keep it simple & make it rails, just like CT. It gives the merc an indication of where he is or is not safe and allows for more control by the mapper.
I disagree. Merc's should not know where they are safe.
They're fucking mercs.
Quote from: Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet on July 26, 2010, 02:31:45 AM
I disagree. Merc's should not know where they are safe.
They're fucking mercs.
I'd like to agree but I just think it would make it too hard to make a fair and fun map. At least not without eliminating any vertical gameplay.
Quote from: monterto on July 26, 2010, 12:46:37 AM
Quote from: Cronky on July 25, 2010, 04:48:14 AM
Quote from: monterto on July 25, 2010, 03:54:34 AM
I think a ledge grab should be a kill. Period. I wouldn't mind slew of animations, depending on height, to make the kill more believable.
The problem with that is the same as mentioned above by psyichic. This thread is trying to say that a "Ledge Grab" could be one of two types of grabs. Either:
Keep it simple & make it rails, just like CT. It gives the merc an indication of where he is or is not safe and allows for more control by the mapper.
Am I misunderstanding you or did you just change your mind?
Earlier:
Quote from: monterto on July 25, 2010, 03:54:34 AM
I think a ledge grab should be a kill. Period. I wouldn't mind slew of animations, depending on height, to make the kill more believable.
semantics. I say ledge grab but I'm thinking in terms of SCCT existing game rules (IE over a rail). I was explaining how it should be a kill, but different animations would be a nice bit of detail to make the death of a merc more believable for a 2 foot drop. My last post was just clarifying to cronky who, if I understand correctly, thought by "ledge grab" I meant from a ledge with no railing.
Oh ok. I love your av btw