I've been thinking for a while and for this thread... Re-purpose is the name of the game this time. (And simply to bring back these AWESOME ideas)
I loved me some Spy Bullet, but others on here for some reason liked the Heartbeat sensor. Which did basically the same thing, without a limited number of shots... plus no voice hacking. If this is true, then instead of trying improve the spy bullet why not just make it have a whole new functionality.
Here is my proposal.
Throw out the Proxy Radar it had when shot anywhere. Trash the Merc voice hack (or MAYBE NOT).
INSTEAD of these, make the spy bullet a level/gadget oriented... gadget.
FIRST FUNCTION:
A while ago, wireless hacking (Of general panels, not objectives) was brought up. Much like DA, the further away you were the longer it took to hack. At minimum it would take at least a few seconds longer regardless. Shoot near a hackable panel and BAM. No more headshots because you want to open a door.
If possible I'd like Mercs to be able to see the wireless "Direction" through EMF. Like Tiny particals that points to where the Spy is hacking from.
Perhaps not though, Spies are already at a disadvantage with time. If this were in there then Spies should be able to hack from behind walls, or in vents. (Not have to be within eyesight, but just general proximity)
If said EMF Direction were not included. Then Eyesight must be maintained for the whole of the hack.
SECOND FUNCTION:
Mines are a bitch, but nothing we haven't come to terms with. Disarm and go on your way. Now if I were to shoot said Spy bullet on a Mine. It would simply disable the mine. Disarm is bad for Spies cause that means the Merc can set a new Mine. Disable simply takes the danger off the mine.
Through technological incapability (Not explained in game) this can only affect 1 mine at a time. So no... Disabling all the mines in a level.
Merc's can easily tell when their Mines have been disabled because instead of a blinking red light, it will be a solid green. It's up to him (or her) at this point to either simply take the Spy Bullet off, or take the mine somewhere new.
THIRD FUNCTION:
This one has already been brought up too.
Static defenses are also a bitch. They always try and warn the Mercs about even your most MINOR of slip ups.
So in opposition to this, when you shoot a Spy Bullet on a Motion detector or camera (Not camnet). It will now warn you (The Spy) of a Merc's movement in said area much like it does for the Merc.
Mercs could tell when a motion detector was bullet'd because it would blink for them; a camera if it was following them. Simply shoot the bullet off and it's back to normal.
FORTH FUNCTION:
Mercs love themselves some Camnet. Some people will camp ALL day just to get a glimpse of your position. Whether they tell their teammate to react, or actually do the dirty work themselves is up to them at that point.
With a Spy bullet on a Camnet Camera Spies will have themselves a makeshift sticky cam. Minus the Gas. To Mercs on Camnet, that camera simply wont pop up. Knowledgeable Mercs will get what's going on and go find the bullet... or get their teammate to do it.
DRAWBACKS (a.k.a. Why this isn't overpowered):
Now I know what you're thinking at this point, "Hey... with this gadget you wouldn't need ANY other gadgets. EVER." There is a price to pay for said gadget though.
In CT you had 5 Spy Bullets. PS would only have say... 3. Much like Merc mines and their millions of placements... you just don't have enough to do everything.
Again, through technological incapability Spies can only use 1 Spy Bullet at a time. This means that you can't disable a mine, take out a camnet, and hack a door at the same time. Each Spy Bullet disables the last active one.
Lastly. You miss. You lost one. You better have a plan, and good aim. There is no do-overs with this gadget.
I have a feeling I've already had this whole thread before, but like I said at the start. I love me some Spy Bullet. 8)
Regular spy bullets are way better than these ones. These ones aren't very good at all. Wireless hacking is okay, disabling mines is completly pointless when you could just shoot them, being told where a merc is once before he destroys your bullet is worthless, and breaking one camera until it gets shot isn't very good either.
The proximity detector on spy bullets was the best thing ever, it was way more useful than any of your ideas.
I've read many times that the heartbeat sensor was used WAY more than the Spy Bullets. Thus came up with this.
I like the original spy bullet as a whole, but if it were to become it's own gadget I would hope that it didn't just do the same thing as another one with a tiny difference.
Wireless hacking - Yeah, it would be nice
Disabling mines - Again, you COULD shoot one, but then the Merc has the ability to set another immediately. In this instance the Merc doesn't know that his Mine is doing nothing. Thus having a useless mine until either:
A.) You, the spy, make an attempt to do something else with another spy bullet.
or
B.) The Merc sees his mine and fixes it.
Being told where the Merc is once - This is one of those "If they notice" deals. How much as a Merc have you ever actually paid attention to the Motion detectors or the Cameras? Again, you would have a proximity detector still, but instead this one would give you a message much like a Merc gets with said defenses. (Instead of doing exactly what the heartbeat sensor does... which actually came after the bullet... hrmm)
Breaking one camera till it gets shot - This is more for "Balancing" Camnet, as I've also read (mostly by spekkio) that it's not exactly PERFECT. This forces a Merc to either get his partner to move, or himself to leave his position to fix this problem. Either way opens up an opportunity for a spy to do... Something... if used right.
And it makes the spy bullet, in this instance, an Anti-Camping kind of gadget. As some Camnet users undoubtedly are.
Quote from: Cronky on August 16, 2010, 01:42:01 AM
I've read many times that the heartbeat sensor was used WAY more than the Spy Bullets. Thus came up with this.
HBS is good, but spy bullets are pretty good too. Can you shoot a heartbeat sensor around a corner to keep you totally safe while you hack? No you can't.
QuoteDisabling mines -
Mercs check mines pretty frequently, and they'll run out pretty quick if you keep destroying them. Poiiiiintless.
QuoteBeing told where the Merc is once -
I think they're gonna notice pretty quickly if a fucking camera is looking at them while blinking.
QuoteBreaking one camera till it gets shot -
Fuckin' pointless dude. The point of camnet is to let you know where the spies are. If you shoot out a camera then you tell them where you are. Camnet is only bad on some maps, anyway. Just make camnet more like it is in Aquarius instead of more like it is in Factory and there'll be no problem.
Quote from: B-3A Misty Lady on August 16, 2010, 02:09:34 AM
Quote from: Cronky on August 16, 2010, 01:42:01 AM
I've read many times that the heartbeat sensor was used WAY more than the Spy Bullets. Thus came up with this.
HBS is good, but spy bullets are pretty good too. Can you shoot a heartbeat sensor around a corner to keep you totally safe while you hack? No you can't.
Is there still an option to do this with this rendition of the Spy Bullet? Yes. Check the 3rd function. It just uses the levels defenses instead of your own gadget.
(Yes, I understand that is not EXACTLY the same. The point was to make it significantly different than the heartbeat sensor. Not a variant of it)
QuoteQuoteDisabling mines -
Mercs check mines pretty frequently, and they'll run out pretty quick if you keep destroying them. Poiiiiintless.
Blow it up - Make some noise
Disable - No noise, No alert.
Hell even at that it's like a "Get out of a mine raping Free Card", or a "I don't have time to sneak to it" gadget.
Laser Mine in a doorway that you can see, but can't blow up lest you hurt/kill yourself? Disable, then disarm.
You can see said laser mine, Merc is patrolling the room, and in this situation your teammate is on the otherside of the door without this gadget?
Disable it for him.
QuoteQuoteBeing told where the Merc is once -
I think they're gonna notice pretty quickly if a fucking camera is looking at them while blinking.
I think I get what you're getting at. You mean the orange square that plops over it saying "You got caught foo"?
I didn't imagine the Mercs getting to see that. Simply the motion detector blinking, or the Camera staring at them. That is all. Alerting the Spy, not the Merc.
QuoteQuoteBreaking one camera till it gets shot -
Fuckin' pointless dude. The point of camnet is to let you know where the spies are. If you shoot out a camera then you tell them where you are. Camnet is only bad on some maps, anyway. Just make camnet more like it is in Aquarius instead of more like it is in Factory and there'll be no problem.
Just because you shoot out a camera doesn't mean you have to stand in that room. Unlike the wireless hacking, the other functions don't need you within eyesight of it.
You COULD stand in the same room, knowing at one point a Merc will HAVE to come into that room to fix it. Ambush Style.
OR
You could go to another room while the Merc is distracted away in the room you hacked. Decoy Style.
Quote from: Cronky on August 16, 2010, 12:48:44 AM
I loved me some Spy Bullet, but others on here for some reason liked the Heartbeat sensor.
Add me to the HBS list. For some reason? 1. You don't have to waste time shooting it on a merc
2. It can't be removed by another merc 3. You never run out
Quote from: CurdyMilk on August 16, 2010, 05:42:57 AM
Quote from: Cronky on August 16, 2010, 12:48:44 AM
I loved me some Spy Bullet, but others on here for some reason liked the Heartbeat sensor.
Add me to the HBS list. For some reason? 1. You don't have to waste time shooting it on a merc
2. It can't be removed by another merc 3. You never run out
Yes, both have advantages/disadvantages that favor certain maps/play styles lets avoid discussing this
Quote from: monterto on August 16, 2010, 05:58:21 AM
Quote from: CurdyMilk on August 16, 2010, 05:42:57 AM
Quote from: Cronky on August 16, 2010, 12:48:44 AM
I loved me some Spy Bullet, but others on here for some reason liked the Heartbeat sensor.
Add me to the HBS list. For some reason? 1. You don't have to waste time shooting it on a merc
2. It can't be removed by another merc 3. You never run out
Yes, both have advantages/disadvantages that favor certain maps/play styles lets avoid discussing this
It's a good gadget. That is no doubt. Perhaps my favorite (Mostly just for Voice Hacking). This thread was a big WHAT IF it was to change, and what I think would make it more unique.
Bringing both the Heartbeat Sensor and Spy Bullets to any level though was pretty redundant. It's like if the spies had Nightvision and a Flashlight gadget. Sure, each is useful in it's own sense, but both are so close to each other in functionality that it would make sense to remake one.
If that makes any sense ;D
Quote from: monterto on August 16, 2010, 05:58:21 AM
Quote from: CurdyMilk on August 16, 2010, 05:42:57 AM
Quote from: Cronky on August 16, 2010, 12:48:44 AM
I loved me some Spy Bullet, but others on here for some reason liked the Heartbeat sensor.
Add me to the HBS list. For some reason? 1. You don't have to waste time shooting it on a merc
2. It can't be removed by another merc 3. You never run out
Yes, both have advantages/disadvantages that favor certain maps/play styles lets avoid discussing this
I know, I wasn't saying it was better or worse. Just my opinion.
Quote from: Cronky on August 16, 2010, 06:19:24 AM
Bringing both the Heartbeat Sensor and Spy Bullets to any level though was pretty redundant. It's like if the spies had Nightvision and a Flashlight gadget. Sure, each is useful in it's own sense, but both are so close to each other in functionality that it would make sense to remake one.
I would die if the HBS didn't make it in PS.
Quote from: CurdyMilk on August 16, 2010, 06:25:28 AM
Quote from: Cronky on August 16, 2010, 06:19:24 AM
Bringing both the Heartbeat Sensor and Spy Bullets to any level though was pretty redundant. It's like if the spies had Nightvision and a Flashlight gadget. Sure, each is useful in it's own sense, but both are so close to each other in functionality that it would make sense to remake one.
I would die if the HBS didn't make it in PS.
Coincidentally, I would kill if it made it in.
;)
I prefer HBS but nothing a bit of boosting for SB can't fix.
Maybe boost the range and duration a bit. One of the things fixed through testing.
You're probably right.
SB should stay as is.
If Voice Hacking is axed...
Oh there will be SOOOO many angry letters.
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fblogs.e-rockford.com%2Fapplesauce%2Ffiles%2F2010%2F01%2Fangry-letter4-300x292.jpg&hash=13de4c30c6673ce3dc2e50ff64071217c46bc980)
...Or I guess in my case a VEEEEEERY long Forum Post. ;)
You merely need to write a strongly worded letter.
That always works. It's how I brought down the Berlin Wall.
Point taken.
I guess I'll have to..
Beef up my vocabulary.
8)
YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
I think it would be easier to make a sub-category for the gadgets like, You go on the equipment screen, click on the Spy Bullet, then it takes you to sub-options of spy bullet, like an attachment of what it's going to do, either disable the mine and you lose the radar, or it does the radar thing but it doesn't disable the mine hmm?
PS: Anyone thinks you should be able to taze a CNet Camera for few seconds? Would be cool if it had an animation of rotating wildly and turning the torchlight and laser sight on and off for that duration ^^
I think that would actually be kinda cool.
But only to those Gadgets that "Could" have other abilities. We don't need a "Grenade" category that leads to asking if you want Flash, Smoke, or Chaff. Just set them in the main equipment screen. It does sound interesting though to think that some Gadgets could have other uses.
Or you just make a new gadget and make it do those other things. I get you were going for a kind of "Combination" effect though.
(I'm going to go ahead and guess that everyone will hate this idea because it "Throws too many options in front of a player. That it will confuse, and make readying up in the lobby far too long because of that one ahole that can't decide if he wants Radar or Mine Disabling... for 10 minutes")
Camnet does seem like it should be able to be affected SOMEHOW. I can imagine it doing some wicked flailing though. ;)
Think of Deus Ex 1, where you throw an EMP, it actually starts to do vibrate noises make red/green lights with a wicked rotation :)
God I love Deus Ex, Praise allah
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/gc-10-deus-ex/702812 (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/gc-10-deus-ex/702812)
Looks as if the new game has some potential.
I just hope that it gives as many choices as the first.
-Perhaps Spoilers to those that haven't played-
Like if you actually help Paul in the Hotel instead of leaving him as a distraction.
-End Spoilers-
Minor difference in story, but freedom to go about that situation in any way you want.
I love it.
(Perhaps a little off topic, but I love me some Deus Ex also)
SPOILERZ
SPOILERZ
SPOILERZ
SPOILERZ
To be honest Paul does not die unless you go out of the window.
You can hide behind a cabinet and follow him as he kills all of the troops, make sure you follow hm closely or else he dissapears. I did that way till I got to the exit with 0 HP lost and 0 bullets wasted :)
I always play as the "Hacky, Cracky, Stealy, Talky, No Killy (Baton/Tranq Darts FTW)" Person. So I was stockpiled for that ONE scene.
So much ammo wasted... so many guns that I didn't have proficiency in... ;)
AAAH CRAP
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Hmmmm, And I am a terrible bug user and abuser, I would start my game with 9 Upgrade canisters and 3 Augmentation canisters. BY THE WAY THIS IS NOT A CHEAT! It's a bug of which I do not want to talk about. I can make a video if you do not believe me but it is easy! Same way I have all my equipment when I enter the prison level in UNATCO.
-Continued potential Spoilers-
I've done the UNATCO bug. That guard didn't know what was about to go down.
Course I like trying to avoid that whole scene. I forget at what point you actually are "Forced" to end up there. (You can't skip that part all together, right? Seems like I might have, but it's been a while)
SPOILERZ!
SPOILERZ!
SPOILERZ!
SPOILERZ!
SPOILERZ!
SPOILERZ!
Yeah you are forced, allthough I should try it with God Mode, but I think there are barriers and they won't let you leave + Paul Denton is captured so you need his Data, as well as Gunther is unkillable :(
Right right right.
Good Game.
Should probably get back On Topic now.
Or just let this thread die.
OR wait till someone else has something to say that furthers this.
So many choices.
Should probably make a Thread post everything you love and like or something about Deus Ex so people populate it and poollute it...I think I should try that ^^ The Thread would be probably more popular than all of the threads in the off-topic combined ><
That thread would probably do one of two things, either:
A.) Get people interested in the game, thus playing it and relating their experience with it. (Graphics whores knocking it because even the HD Texture pack still makes it look dated)
OR
B.) It'd just be you and I going back and forth about our experiences while everyone else just kinda... doesn't care.
Either way, would probably rock a little bit of socks. ;)
Perhaps a more widespread appeal would be making a thread about Good Game Design, and having your prime example be Deus Ex. Welcoming everyone else to relate their favorite games and what aspects make it good.
Just a thought.
Indeed, Except I still do not get why people hate Invisible war, sure alot of the content got removed like entering your own Login and Password and using Keypads and writing the codes in but, atleast the BioMods rock the hell out of the game, I mean they were just so amazing!
I tried to explain what I think was the reasoning behind the hate for Invisible War in another thread.
A mixture of less content (Whether because of budget, or timeframe), less "Unique" (As all sequels are), and Solutions to Non-Problems (Universal Ammo was not needed).
Now those 3 aren't the ONLY reasons, but just three general things I think were factors to it's dislike.
Yeah Universal Ammo is such bullshit, it's like run out of that you run out of everything, in the first one you run out of that but still got the other :)