This is my first post, so go easy on me. (feel free to skip down to "My Suggestion for Project Stealth: A Strategic Planning Period")
My Introduction
I've been playing Chaos Theory Versus on and off for about a year and I've had a blast. Story is my favourite mode; I love the intensity of moments of patient sneaking followed by heart-stopping encounters with members of the enemy team.
Most importantly, I really enjoy the teamwork components of the game. I'm sure you all know what I'm referring to (voice chat, healing your teammate, the merc backpack, the spy coop boosts, baiting a merc so your partner can get his neck, etc.).
In fact, I personally feel that the teamwork and strategy elements (when coupled with the unique stealth gameplay) define the SvM gametype.
Unfortunately, I guess I'm a lone wolf type player - I don't know many people who play CT Versus at the same times that I do - and so I've had all varieties of teammates. I've always found that I have the most fun when playing with someone who communicates well, regardless if I win or lose. My reasoning is that communication leads to coordination and teamwork, which in turn comprise a certain strategy. Having a strategy makes the game more fun for both teams: Spies become organized and more likely to complete objectives, and Mercs aren't bored with easy grenade vent kills.
My Suggestion for Project Stealth: A Strategic Planning Period
I suggest that Project Stealth incorporate a short strategic planning period in-game for both teams. The purpose is to allow players to plan their approach/strategy through chat (voice and/or text). This planning period would occur immediately after the game launches and happen in-game (not in the lobby). During this period, all players would be unable take any action (that means no moving/shooting, etc.). Following the planning period, players would be "unfrozen" and the game would continue as normal.
An interesting optional idea: Players can change their equipment during the planning period.
While the host could control the duration (and existence) of the period, I'm envisioning something like a 30 second or 1 minute default time.
Possible Benefits of a Strategic Planning Period
I feel that this would add to the game in a number of ways, without taking anything away.
Primarily, the quality of the gameplay would improve. When both teams are familiar with the maps and have discussed a plan, higher-level play can be achieved. There's nothing worse than having a teammate who runs off and gets killed rushing an objective... or having one spy trip an alarm to bait a merc, accidentally preventing a teammate from hacking. The flipside is also true: remember how good it feels to cover your teammate while he's hacking? Isn't it great when you and your partner are working cooperatively?
As well, a planning period could boost the social/community aspect of the game. For example, teammates who meet for the first time have a chance to discuss a plan and get to know each other.
Ultimately, this suggestion is better suited to random online games, and not games between partners who've been playing together for a while. Simply turn the period off if you don't want it. I think a short planning period would be really easy to code too.
Good idea? Bad idea? Thoughts?
A strategic pause can be seen as a barrier to getting a few games done quickly.
Voice-chat should be enough to talk about tactics to a stranger, while you can set-up tactics with regular partners outside of the game, like in the lobby, or with some other cooperation tool.
Some 'markers' to mark objectives for noobier teammates who don't speak your language are possible, but won't be in in the initial release. Example: "Hack Dock 1" or "Cover me". Speaking of language, we have multiple language support, but so far it's English-only.
Quote from: frvge on August 17, 2010, 06:38:00 PM
A strategic pause can be seen as a barrier to getting a few games done quickly.
And strategies can go up in smoke quickly based upon what the other team is doing. Then you have to start over with a new plan anyway.
why does this make me think of the very first Rainbow Six game when you got to plot waypoints for your team mates to travel?
Unfortunately, I guess I'm a lone wolf type player]
http://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/index.php/topic,2362.0.html
Maybe that can help?
Quote from: frvge on August 17, 2010, 06:38:00 PM
A strategic pause can be seen as a barrier to getting a few games done quickly.
True, but even if it's only for 30 seconds? And optional? I do understand what you mean though, I'm just trying to contribute to the project in some fashion.
Quote from: frvge on August 17, 2010, 06:38:00 PM
Some 'markers' to mark objectives for noobier teammates who don't speak your language are possible, but won't be in in the initial release. Example: "Hack Dock 1" or "Cover me". Speaking of language, we have multiple language support, but so far it's English-only.
Sounds like an excellent idea.
Quote from: CurdyMilk on August 17, 2010, 06:43:31 PM
Quote from: frvge on August 17, 2010, 06:38:00 PM
A strategic pause can be seen as a barrier to getting a few games done quickly.
And strategies can go up in smoke quickly based upon what the other team is doing. Then you have to start over with a new plan anyway.
Your plan is not limited to only describing the actions of your own team, you can also discuss possible reactions that depend on the opposing teams behaviour. Let me give you an example for Spies on Aquarius:
The spies plan to get the office disk through the coop boost - one spy will cover and notify his teammate if a merc is coming. Then they agree to retreat to the roof and go for tech.
After the bomb is planted, the spies will wait and react to the mercs.
a) If a merc comes from Pirates to secure Tech, the disk spy can either hack Pirates or dropoff the disk
b) If a merc has left Greek, the non-disk spy will hack Greek
c) If no merc comes to Tech, the spies will head towards the dropoff together
I know it's impossible to be completely prepared for all situations but I'm thinking it would really help to have a short time to plan a strategy. Even so, if it's just me I'll put the idea to rest.
Quote from: DreadStunLock on August 17, 2010, 07:21:47 PM
Unfortunately, I guess I'm a lone wolf type player]
http://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/index.php/topic,2362.0.html
Maybe that can help?
I'll look into getting back on xfire tonight, thanks!
Ah, frvge, I believe I can take on Polish and Greek translations (if you support the fonts).
I can do Russian and Lithuanian :)
I think you should do something like:
Russian
English
French
German
I think those are key ones.
Seems like a good option for the host to have even though you can teamspeak your plan in the lobby.
Quote from: AlphaBlue120 on August 17, 2010, 07:55:49 PM
Quote from: CurdyMilk on August 17, 2010, 06:43:31 PM
Quote from: frvge on August 17, 2010, 06:38:00 PM
A strategic pause can be seen as a barrier to getting a few games done quickly.
And strategies can go up in smoke quickly based upon what the other team is doing. Then you have to start over with a new plan anyway.
Your plan is not limited to only describing the actions of your own team, you can also discuss possible reactions that depend on the opposing teams behaviour. Let me give you an example for Spies on Aquarius:
The spies plan to get the office disk through the coop boost - one spy will cover and notify his teammate if a merc is coming. Then they agree to retreat to the roof and go for tech.
After the bomb is planted, the spies will wait and react to the mercs.
a) If a merc comes from Pirates to secure Tech, the disk spy can either hack Pirates or dropoff the disk
b) If a merc has left Greek, the non-disk spy will hack Greek
c) If no merc comes to Tech, the spies will head towards the dropoff together
I know it's impossible to be completely prepared for all situations but I'm thinking it would really help to have a short time to plan a strategy. Even so, if it's just me I'll put the idea to rest.
All of this is fine, but it makes things way more complicated than they really are. I just go with the flow.
Quote from: DreadStunLock on August 17, 2010, 09:03:16 PM
I can do Russian and Lithuanian :)
I think you should do something like:
Russian
English
French
German
I think those are key ones.
Usted se olvidó español
Did I miss "Espaniol"? :))
Well, if spanish is in, I suggest we get somebody to do Italian and Chinese.
Hmmmm....maybe if lucky....we might get Japanese ^^
Quote from: CurdyMilk on August 17, 2010, 06:43:31 PMAnd strategies can go up in smoke quickly based upon what the other team is doing. Then you have to start over with a new plan anyway.
Then it's not a good plan.
A good plan is not "[Aquarius] Okay, we'll coop into the office disk and then I'll go to greek while you sneak to drop off the disk." This is what most people do, and it's why they ultimately fall short. A good plan has an end goal, but multiple ways to accomplish that goal taking into account the way the enemy is going to defend the objective.
To extrapolate on the above bad plan: stealing the disk is likely to force both mercs over to the pirate area. Neutralizing greek during that time doesn't really help your cause because now the area of defense is condensed to the area the mercs were leaning toward anyway. You need to be able to account for this and find some way to either draw the mercs away or single one up to attack him 2 on 1. Then the one spy can stall the other merc while you get the disk. The plan should also include which objectives you will attack next if your first attack succeeds or fails.
The next step is working on execution of the plan, and then analyzing why it failed/succeeded and revise if necessary. Most of the time for a newly developed plan, the problem is in timing/execution between the two spies. For more experienced players, many good plans have been ruined by CT's nefarious bugs.
I actually like this idea (as long as you can keep it optional...no reason to have a planning period if/when you are playing with a friend with whom you already have planned strats). My only issues are that 1) a one-minute planning session isn't going to be able to accomplish the above. The most you can possibly get from this is coordinating which objective to attempt to attack first, but you don't have nearly enough time to cover how to attack that objective and what to do if it fails. However, at least some of the more casual players looking for a semblance of teamwork can try to hash something together.
ANYWAY, What I always wished CT had was the ability to launch a game with only two spies or mercs with infinite time to work on strategies real time. It helps to be able to get timing down when you're actually traveling through the map in-game.
Quote from: Spekkio on August 18, 2010, 06:13:59 PM
Quote from: CurdyMilk on August 17, 2010, 06:43:31 PMAnd strategies can go up in smoke quickly based upon what the other team is doing. Then you have to start over with a new plan anyway.
Then it's not a good plan.
A good plan is not "[Aquarius] Okay, we'll coop into the office disk and then I'll go to greek while you sneak to drop off the disk." This is what most people do, and it's why they ultimately fall short. A good plan has an end goal, but multiple ways to accomplish that goal taking into account the way the enemy is going to defend the objective.
To extrapolate on the above bad plan: stealing the disk is likely to force both mercs over to the pirate area. Neutralizing greek during that time doesn't really help your cause because now the area of defense is condensed to the area the mercs were leaning toward anyway. You need to be able to account for this and find some way to either draw the mercs away or single one up to attack him 2 on 1. Then the one spy can stall the other merc while you get the disk. The plan should also include which objectives you will attack next if your first attack succeeds or fails.
If the spies don't get greek, they generally don't win the game. Getting greek is better than getting the office disk in my opinion, so it wouldn't be worth it to have both mercs trying to stop it. I would give up office rather than greek any day.
I'm not saying plans are bad. Maybe I am different because I have developed chemistry with one player and we don't really plan ahead anymore. Just go. ;D If you are playing with strangers, then it is probably a good idea.
Greek is a very difficult place to get, hard for a spy to jump on a merc, the place is very light up, and try finding a good spot to use a camera, + if somneone is hacking Greek, the vent grenade just does the job.
A bit of a threadjack, but greek is the worst objective to get first in Aqua IMO because of the way it changes the merc's gameplan.; it effectively cuts the map in half.
I usually go for pirate, office disk, or tech before thinking about touching Greek. I wish it was the other way around but mercs usually do a good job of holding down greek. Or at least it is their biggest priority to defend.
Which is funny because their biggest priority early game should be tech, particularly the tank disk.
Yeah if u get tech early then it's a safe haven for spies. You can obviously get anywhere from tech very easily.
0n the xbox version you could lauch with 2 players on one team and none on the other.
What does that have to do with the topic?
Quote from: Farley4Fan on August 20, 2010, 01:30:54 AM
What does that have to do with the topic?
He is suggesting a new teamwork idea. It's simple. Have 2 spies fighting against the clock ;D