Well... what i realized was, that in SC:CT after being tazed, the merc has a 1-2 second gap, between "taze invincibility" and "being able to activate gasmask again".
And at that time the merc cannot switch on his GM and is vulnerable to smoke nades or cams and the only way out is charging to a safe place... this is a huge weakness for the merc if 2 spies gang up on him, so i wanted to ask:
How will PS handle this? Will it be the same as in CT or will this be "fixed"?
And what do YOU think about this?
That's not a huge problem in CT, that even help a bit spy in specific moments.
But it's not huge unbalance, you just have to be carefull as merc.
I think there should be no delay, for the sake of balance :)
It can be annoying if the 2 spies drop 2 sticky cameras behind you and in front, but unfortunately those angles are ridicilously rare, as well as noone almost ever does that (Unless really unlucky)
The thing that is annoying is that you can't gas mask while climbing the ladder which gives a spy an opportunity to get a free "ZzZzZz" Mercenary for 6 seconds, though it's not really unbalanced since a heavy mercenary shouldn't be able to put anything on while being on a ladder.
I have no issue with this system. The only time where it really affects you is when you get shocked in a vent, but you shouldn't have gotten yourself in that spot to begin with.
It can be annoying, but I guess it's not that big of a deal. It doesn't really make sense though, I mean what's stopping the merc from activating it after he's no longer tazed?
Nothing...it has a 1-2 second wind-up after being activated, and you are vulnerable to cams in less than that time.
I actually think that PS should have the same, 1-2 second delay, it gives more skillful players to do a very tricky sticky cam from any angle, not like it's going to work all the time, but still. It can be the hidden posibility.
Its a legit tactic , don't remove it from SvM.
That is aggro play...
Quote from: Meister_Neo on February 09, 2011, 04:59:46 PM
That is aggro play...
So what? You are saying aggro play is not meant to be for spies? Aggro play is a lot more difficult than stealth play, and personally in my opinion it's the pussy way.
k the game's name changed officially to "project aggro"
Quote from: Meister_Neo on February 09, 2011, 05:31:52 PM
k the game's name changed officially to "project aggro"
So what is versus to you? Aggrus?
Quote from: DreadStunLock on February 09, 2011, 05:19:37 PM
Quote from: Meister_Neo on February 09, 2011, 04:59:46 PM
That is aggro play...
So what? You are saying aggro play is not meant to be for spies? Aggro play is a lot more difficult than stealth play, and personally in my opinion it's the pussy way.
thats your opinion but it just tells me and everyone else is your impatient.
Impatient in what? That actually is true, I am impatient overall, but when time is ticking, you don't want to lose because you dragged the time on.
Name don't force anything.
Should be possible aggro and stealth you choose what you want do.
Exactly, and Aggro wins in terms of the hardest to master :P
Probably because there is nothing that supports aggro. You're re-purposing stealth oriented gadgets and techniques in a way to play the game in an aggressive style. ;)
Yes, what you said, I just really want that to happen, seeing a player playing awesome aggro is just amazing.
Yeah, just like watching a person on Counter Strike use only a Knife... and Win. ;D
You're against aggro gamestyle? ???
Against? No.
It is fun watching a team use an aggro playstyle and it work. Much in the same way as when watching a person play Counter Strike and using the Knife.
On the other hand, should it be treated as a legit alternative way of play (at least in Story mode)? No. (As in Gadgets/Moves that support Aggro)
In my mind though, aggro playstyle means actively searching for the Mercs and ignoring objectives. So perhaps I'm just in the wrong mindset.
Quote from: Cronky on February 09, 2011, 11:10:43 PM
Against? No.
It is fun watching a team use an aggro playstyle and it work. Much in the same way as when watching a person play Counter Strike and using the Knife.
On the other hand, should it be treated as a legit alternative way of play (at least in Story mode)? No. (As in Gadgets/Moves that support Aggro)
In my mind though, aggro playstyle means actively searching for the Mercs and ignoring objectives. So perhaps I'm just in the wrong mindset.
you are correct .
please see here of what true aggro is :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OROrCtrfesk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k77m8GbqYW8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQZB5Ju_AGM
Only watched the first video, and that is indeed pretty impressive.
...Reminds me of myself when I first started playing ;)
Heh, the first vid has them playing me and Remmdog...I remember that. We won the round, but it got really close after Remm got killed twice fairly early in the round.
Quote from: Cronky on February 09, 2011, 11:10:43 PM
Against? No.
It is fun watching a team use an aggro playstyle and it work. Much in the same way as when watching a person play Counter Strike and using the Knife.
On the other hand, should it be treated as a legit alternative way of play (at least in Story mode)? No. (As in Gadgets/Moves that support Aggro)
In my mind though, aggro playstyle means actively searching for the Mercs and ignoring objectives. So perhaps I'm just in the wrong mindset.
I don't mean aggro to DM the mercenaries, Taze and Hack is quite sufficient.
Quote from: DreadStunLock on February 10, 2011, 12:45:59 AM
Quote from: Cronky on February 09, 2011, 11:10:43 PM
Against? No.
It is fun watching a team use an aggro playstyle and it work. Much in the same way as when watching a person play Counter Strike and using the Knife.
On the other hand, should it be treated as a legit alternative way of play (at least in Story mode)? No. (As in Gadgets/Moves that support Aggro)
In my mind though, aggro playstyle means actively searching for the Mercs and ignoring objectives. So perhaps I'm just in the wrong mindset.
I don't mean aggro to DM the mercenaries, Taze and Hack is quite sufficient.
Well I don't think you understand what aggro really is then...
Yeah, and you are a pro of aggro so you can explain then.
Then taze and run, watching out for the mines and the other mercenary being in the most un-needed position(for the spy) is also part of the aggro category, not?
A really good team in Ct must concist of two super good stealth/aggro mixers , preferably that one is better at stealth and the other at aggro.
Aggro is not harder to master than real stealth and no i am not talking about slow walking all the time by pressing your heartbeat every second, which is not stealth at all actually.
Same goes for aggro , it is not blind runing around like an idiot and tazing mercs left and right. Good agressive players knows what he is doing in terms of positioning and runing 'to' + hacking nd for extra seconds etc I could give you a fucking huge list what an aggro player needs to think about but ill skip this part.
All in all. Aggro and Stealth are not easier or harder to master, just few do.
Quote from: Snakebit. on February 10, 2011, 06:21:08 PM
A really good team in Ct must consist of two super good stealth/aggro mixers , preferably that one is better at stealth and the other at aggro.
And your mate must be same freak like you are.
That's fucking right.
I once heard from a guy saying, playing stealth is intense and you get adrenaline from thinking wether the mercenary saw you or not, was quite funny. But still I think aggro is a lot better than stealth. Stealth can't really help you when your teammate dies.
Quote from: DreadStunLock on February 10, 2011, 07:33:07 PM
I once heard from a guy saying, playing stealth is intense and you get adrenaline from thinking wether the mercenary saw you or not, was quite funny. But still I think aggro is a lot better than stealth. Stealth can't really help you when your teammate dies.
Ofcourse stealth is intense because of that... and it's nothing about what's better, it's about how good people play in their style.
You have to believe in your teammate or whole teamplay will fail.
In my opinion I think it's kind of lame, if he saw you, you would know that, the only intense about it is to think of how to run away :P
Quote from: KnoogeR on February 07, 2011, 06:13:01 PM
That's not a huge problem in CT, that even help a bit spy in specific moments.
Obviously... where's the advantage for the merc?
Quote from: Snakebit. on February 10, 2011, 06:21:08 PM
A really good team in Ct must concist of two super good stealth/aggro mixers , preferably that one is better at stealth and the other at aggro.
ehh or both are good at either style; like led and kronf.
I agree the system should be kept the way it is. The only thing that's annoying in my eyes is that you can't activate the mask while climbing up the ladder, which was already mentioned.
Both styles are OK in my opinion, however it would balance the game more, if playing stealth was easier and playing aggro harder.
I mean:
In CT i see too many spies attack mercs from front, throwing 1000s of smoke/chaff/bang nades and laggrabbing the merc... come on...
the merc should always be the stronger one in direct confrontations, but on big maps the 2nd merc can't make it in time to help his mate, so there are often situations, where 2 spies just gang up on 1 merc and just spam nades like crazy...
Quote from: theDuke on February 11, 2011, 03:00:41 AM
Quote from: KnoogeR on February 07, 2011, 06:13:01 PM
That's not a huge problem in CT, that even help a bit spy in specific moments.
Obviously... where's the advantage for the merc?
There is advantage for spy, like Spekkio said.. merc in vent = good target for spy;)
If someone get tazed and he off gasmask, then he can't use gasmask for that 1 second :)
@Down
No, I didn't.
Quote is fixed so ya should understand.
Quote from: KnoogeR on February 11, 2011, 04:05:41 PM
There is advantage for spy, like Spekkio said.. merc in vent = good target for spy;)
Did you even read my post?
Havoc + Weezer were really good at coordinating their aggro, and you can tell that most of the time that they actually had a strategy rather than just shocking the merc at random. Thing is, I always got frustrated playing them because of massive lag b/w our servers...we'd typically dominate as hosts and get smashed as clients.
Doesn't that basically make them lag on your server? Since if you lag on theirs, I doubt there is a legit way to even win basically.
What happened to spy team hosts and rehost every map ? ???
Merc host is better than spy host. Most of the host BS benefits spies.
I agree with snakebit about what it takes to win, but I would modify that to be an "A" type player and a "B" type player. The "A" guy is the one that you see most of the time...not necessarily aggro per se, but he's the visible guy you're always running into/chasing around/cursing at for being annoying while the "B" guy is much less visible to the other team...again not necessarily more stealthy, but his role is just less noticed but equally important.
Quote from: DreadStunLock on February 12, 2011, 09:27:32 AM
Doesn't that basically make them lag on your server? Since if you lag on theirs, I doubt there is a legit way to even win basically.
Pretty much. It was a shame, too.
Sounds like a dedicated server is needed :P
Quote from: DreadStunLock on February 13, 2011, 01:35:35 AM
Sounds like a dedicated server is needed :P
Ofcourse, I would like to buy or sth a server for 4 players it's ultra cheap :D
LOL dude...
Avatar is kind of a joke, I am not a neo nazi.
I am kidding of them all :D
Quote from: Limerick on February 13, 2011, 03:12:19 AM
knooger whats up dude... i respect nazi's of proper form, as grammar is tioally cool and not violent.
I knew a Polygon Nazi once... while he did not persuade me into his dark deeds, he helped me evaluate and important part of detail in art that is the future.
.....Gee Limerick what the hell?
Nah. Spy needs the host because spy is very dependant on taz , ability to jump people , ability to grab fast , ability to punch etc
While the only bad thing for merc about lag is delay on shots and may be nades. Rest of his stuff does not need ping at all.
So by making merc host you are deliberately making your stronger merc even stronger to make this a draw imho.
But since PS is a different game then I think devs fixed "host advantage".
Most annoying are host jumps, host grabs and weird nades, ping advantage is not that unfair like some jumps.
Well, I hope they will fix it/fixed it or anything :D
Quote from: Snakebit. on February 13, 2011, 07:17:29 PM
Nah. Spy needs the host because spy is very dependant on taz , ability to jump people , ability to grab fast , ability to punch etc
While the only bad thing for merc about lag is delay on shots and may be nades. Rest of his stuff does not need ping at all.
So by making merc host you are deliberately making your stronger merc even stronger to make this a draw imho.
The merc being unable to hit spies with his gun is a pretty big deal... much more so than spies who generally can choose when to engage the mercs. Additionally, like I said, there are a lot more quirks that favor host spies than host mercs.
Yea, the mercs are generally stronger, but I'd rather not play a game of who can exploit spy host advantage the best.
Quote from: DreadStunLock on February 13, 2011, 01:35:35 AM
Sounds like a dedicated server is needed :P
lolz i considered to say that too :D
I also hope PS will have a great window mode coding, cause I want to be able to see my dedicated server in 1 window, and second window my PS gameplay, of the EXE. As well as alot more config for dedicated servers and when it's launched.
Dedicated servers aren't the panacea you all think they are. A bad connection from distance will be a bad connection from distance, no matter how the server is created.
Well yeah, but that why you can do dedicated servers for a specific request, say you really want to fight those 2 guys with your teammate, but none of you can host because you are too far away, and I am in the middle of you all? I can do that, why not? I would also enjoy watching it.
QuoteYea, the mercs are generally stronger, but I'd rather not play a game of who can exploit spy host advantage the best.
Spy host advantage is how the game should work actually. Same goes for merc host advantage.
Quote from: Meister_Neo on February 07, 2011, 05:11:37 PM
Well... what i realized was, that in SC:CT after being tazed, the merc has a 1-2 second gap, between "taze invincibility" and "being able to activate gasmask again".
And at that time the merc cannot switch on his GM and is vulnerable to smoke nades or cams and the only way out is charging to a safe place... this is a huge weakness for the merc if 2 spies gang up on him, so i wanted to ask:
How will PS handle this? Will it be the same as in CT or will this be "fixed"?
And what do YOU think about this?
Hmm I am torn over this one.
While I am not in the mindset that bugs should be replicated, I believe there needs to be some sort of compromise for the merc when using the tazer...
Its a delicate balance... How do you change it without leaving one side at a real disadvantage?
I would probably say fix the bug and let the merc use his gas mask, but make it so the merc is slowed as if he is walking through smoke and cannot charge (perhaps even berzerk but allow elbow hit) for the cool down period of 2-3 seconds after tazer use... rationalise it as he needs a couple of seconds to recover from "recoil".
This way he is vulnerable, but not so vulnerable that he can be knocked out with the use of a cheap quick cam.