The reason I want to ask is because destruction, creates new paths, leading to creation of the new strategies and ideas.
1. Do you think it would be possible to create a map fully, then select everything and make it destructible with a single bullet
2. Be able to set how many bullets or how much damage it requires to make the object to be able to chip? Cause I would actually love to create and try that out?
3. Also how are the physics in the UDK?
4. Can I make an area collapse if there is not enough support like for example, the railing in Aquarius Pirate room (Support beams for the platform)?
5. Is it possible to create a destructible object that will fall apart and will not dissapear? And will block an area? For example:
A) Mercenary sees a wall.
B) Mercenary bombs the wall and the wall collapses and blocks an area with rubble and does not allow the mercenary to go through and does not dissapear?
Of course this will require a mapper to be very smart, and set specific amounts of destructions, it can still be fully destructible but some areas have to have correct textures and thickness to make it realistic, like a frag grenade should destroy a lot more than a single bullet shot, and a single bullet shot should not make a huge hole through a very thick wall.
I personally can't see that working. The mercs are protecting property, the last thing the owner wants is to find a pile of rubble after returning from his holidays.
That is the whole point, they are meant to protect it from harm, if the mercenaries are too stupid to do that sensibly, well then. Soz lad.
Think about it this way.
Mercenary is from a company name that only gives you 1 thing. Protection.
Now, mostly people will hire such advanced mercenaries to protect the item no matter what, and noone in a right mind will have their stuff being protected in their own house.
Now you might think, destructible debris and cannot be gone through means mercenaries can shoot the ceilling and expect the rubble fall down and block the PCs from being hacked. Not a problem, the rubble has to fall randomly, and also, even if you cut out a gigantic circle, you have to remember, that you won't be able to do that with bullets, because you can't really cut things with bullets, and it's time consuming and also on the design of how smart the mapper is. Of course it would be dumb if the creator of the map will just put thin concrete and allow the objectives to be blocked. But if you place it smart and allow the concrete to only really fall apart with heavy explosives, then it works out both ways.
The last thing the owner wants to find is their data being stolen, they won't be dumb enough to keep it in an important area. Also, this does create a very very huge opening for a lot heavier strategies of purposely making the mercenaries shooting grenades where it's very dangerous, and mercenaries will sometimes have to do so.
Shooting a grenade inside a vent, can lead to one of the few things:
Make a huge hole to advantage for the spies being able to move faster. Or it might kill a spy and render the ventilation system un-usable or a lot more difficult to be used due to the fact that the ventilation shaft is broken, and you can fall to your death or whatever.
Don't forget, it's all up to the materials the mapper uses.
machine room in factory...
I don't want to see everything destroyable, it will make too much unbalance.
Mappers should decide what's destroyable and what not. Look on Tea room at club that's great, in CT it don't really hurts that you cannot destroy any walls. ;)
Sometimes less = more, personally I love minimalism. :P
@Meister_Neo
Ma sine, ma sine ;D
Quote from: Wh1tE_Dw4rF on March 04, 2011, 12:31:56 AM
I personally can't see that working. The mercs are protecting property, the last thing the owner wants is to find a pile of rubble after returning from his holidays.
LOL
Quote from: KnoogeR on March 04, 2011, 03:16:27 PM
I don't want to see everything destroyable, it will make too much unbalance.
Mappers should decide what's destroyable and what not. Look on Tea room at club that's great, in CT it don't really hurts that you cannot destroy any walls. ;)
Sometimes less = more, personally I love minimalism. :P
@Meister_Neo
Ma sine, ma sine ;D
Unbalanced how? You guys say stuff, yet there is no explanation why.
example..
1.mercs will break most/all vents they are able to.
2.holes in walls = useless nades
3.
Quote from: Wh1tE_Dw4rF on March 04, 2011, 12:31:56 AM
I personally can't see that working. The mercs are protecting property, the last thing the owner wants is to find a pile of rubble after returning from his holidays.
Number 3, doesn't show anything or prove anything.
1. Breaking the vents, does not mean the ventilation shafts are not usable, you are only helping the spies in that case because the bigger the vent the better.
2. Doesn't make any sense at all.
Quote from: KnoogeR on March 04, 2011, 03:16:27 PMMa sine, ma sine ;D
I have NOOOOO idea what you are talking about :P
Summarize, if I want to be able to completely demolish the whole map, and if it has an outside area same to do for the buildings, but ofcourse it will take alot of respawns depending on the wall types and etc.
Crazy dream, long time, but it will work.
serves no purpose...why add all the extra work in creating this game. For someone who trolls everyone else this is prolly the worst idea to come out
I am doing it for my benefit, I don't want anything in return. + As far as I know creating a map of such a complexity can definitely go into my portfolio for Art and Game Design. Even if Project Stealth does not approve it.
I wish you good luck with creating static meshes :P
OK... lets blow up the wall to the spy spawn :D
If you have enough grenades to do that, then yeah you can. Your joke comments are easily counterable, because everything you throw I can easily answer.
Think of a map like Steel Squat, How many grenades do you think it would take to get to the spy spawn?
As far as I know, Brick walls are quite durable against Frag Grenades, and most of them you will probably miss and while you are going to be throwing grenades into an empty spawn, spies will be hacking objectives.
And by the way, there was absolutely nothing in the thread that says "This idea will never work".
I wonder what developers can say to that....?
Limerick,
First, Relax.
Second, you will never get a Try-out or a Test in real life if you don't show them that you are capable of creating something professional.
Third, don't bash me because I did not believe you when you did not have any proof, and I have proof that you bashed me for no reason when I was talking calm to you.
Fourth, my map will be playable if I put my time into it and not 8 hours while being drunk and eating pizza.
Fifth, if you want to be a developer so badly, create a model and post it on a Join Us forum, if you get rejected because of your attitude, that is your fault.
Want me to telling you a truth about myself? I wouldn't get upset if Kon Artist would reject me because of my attitude in Project Stealth even if I was an awesome Concept Artist, same goes for Programming from Lennard, or 3D modelling from B1nary, if it's not here, it's somewhere else.
But that definitely doesn't mean I am going to be a "Bad-guy" to those people.
Ok good, now let's get back on topic.
So anymore things for me to answer of why this would not work?
Quote from: DreadStunLock on March 10, 2011, 09:10:51 PM
If you have enough grenades to do that, then yeah you can. Your joke comments are easily counterable, because everything you throw I can easily answer.
Think of a map like Steel Squat, How many grenades do you think it would take to get to the spy spawn?
As far as I know, Brick walls are quite durable against Frag Grenades, and most of them you will probably miss and while you are going to be throwing grenades into an empty spawn, spies will be hacking objectives.
And by the way, there was absolutely nothing in the thread that says "This idea will never work".
I wonder what developers can say to that....?
I wasnt talking about maps like steel squat... more about maps like warehouse...
They might look god aweful if I just select everything and fracture them, if I do each individually and put effort into them, it will be perfect. There are also simple ideas to make a destructible map a lot easier to create, but I will not listen them for now.
Quote from: Meister_Neo on March 10, 2011, 09:59:49 PM
Quote from: DreadStunLock on March 10, 2011, 09:10:51 PM
If you have enough grenades to do that, then yeah you can. Your joke comments are easily counterable, because everything you throw I can easily answer.
Think of a map like Steel Squat, How many grenades do you think it would take to get to the spy spawn?
As far as I know, Brick walls are quite durable against Frag Grenades, and most of them you will probably miss and while you are going to be throwing grenades into an empty spawn, spies will be hacking objectives.
And by the way, there was absolutely nothing in the thread that says "This idea will never work".
I wonder what developers can say to that....?
I wasnt talking about maps like steel squat... more about maps like warehouse...
Warehouse map as we all know it is ridicilously unbalanced, why are you throwing such maps into content? What's next, how will a Dimmykron Estate will work with destruction?
As far as I remember, you do not need to mention names, you clearly stated that 99% of this community are either addicts to: PT, DA, CT or retards completely. And you are degrading yourself with such silly PMs.
[edit: Limerick didnt give you permission to share your PM. It's supposed to be private]
B1nary can you edit the "F*cking retarded" part? Thanks.
Also, people do know more than me and that is great, if they want they can share, if they do not I will learn myself.
Here is one of those examples.
Dread: Zedblade which UDK do I open to map? UDK Game, or UDK Editor?
Zedblade: Google it, for fuck sakes why do I have to spoon feed it's common sense.
That is one of them.
Quote from: DreadStunLock on March 10, 2011, 09:10:51 PM
As far as I know, Brick walls are quite durable against Frag Grenades, and most of them you will probably miss and while you are going to be throwing grenades into an empty spawn, spies will be hacking objectives.
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg824.imageshack.us%2Fimg824%2F4746%2Fwatsk.jpg&hash=22b619a004b08e439b4e5801ae2926b7912c4819)
That's... not exactly a difficult nade. I don't think most people will miss that a lot.
Quote from: DreadStunLock on March 10, 2011, 10:15:02 PM
Space, I agree with that, that nade might penetrate the walls and leave a hole, but how many times will you be able to get there as a mercenary? 1 Mercenary cannot protect all of the objectives on the map, especially when EAX will be dead.
It's like ten seconds from the office ND where everyone camps, so, uh, whenever you want?
QuoteThose look like bricks right? Couple of nades might give a full opening, but don't forget that, that area is not the only area where spies can exit.
No, but right behind that green wall is the spy spawn. Blow a hole in the wall, and then as soon as a spy dies just cruise up and wait. As soon as they spawn, bang, done. Your version of Steel is less balanced that Polar is, haha.
You really haven't thought about this at all, have you?
No, I did. First of all, it can easily be fixed by strengthening the wall for balancing, also don't forget that I am not recreating steel squat, the map I am making will be a bit or I hope it's going to be better.
Also, it takes 10 seconds to get half way to the other side of the building, if you as a merc going to be nading and creating a hole, you are not very useful are you?
EDIT: As well as, even if you blow a huge hole, don't forget that the grenade blows everything in an AOE arc, that means the wall behind you could collapse or even block you. If that will be allowed of course, but I do not see why not.
The idea is nice, but only in certain, pre-defined areas. Which ones are nadable and which are not, would be up to the players to find. (mapper decides what is and what is not).
Well, just like you guys took a very long time to create Lakehouse, I intend to take as much time to get the destruction element. And if I am going to put effort into it, it will work and hopefully it will get popular due to the constant gameplay change.
Think of me as: Jr.Michael Bay :)
I did, and I will still go by it, that's the new motto of the map, otherwise it will be just another map with nothing unique.
Putting a strain? Easily fixed by lowering your graphic card.
And I can also make a second clone of the map without the destruction by tweaking here and there.
Quote from: DreadStunLock on March 10, 2011, 10:20:13 PM
No, I did. First of all, it can easily be fixed by strengthening the wall for balancing
So your way of fixing destructible environments making spawn nades easy is to make the walls indestructible? Seems kinda pointless bro.
Quotealso don't forget that I am not recreating steel squat, the map I am making will be a bit or I hope it's going to be better.
So uh why did you bring up Steel as an example?
QuoteAlso, it takes 10 seconds to get half way to the other side of the building, if you as a merc going to be nading and creating a hole, you are not very useful are you?
Ten seconds was an exaggeration, it takes even less time than that to move from office to a place where you could put a nade in their spawn, and even if it did leave your side uncovered, who cares? The other spy isn't gonna do anywhere near enough damage to make up for me turning the game into a 2v1 as soon as a spy dies.
Whatever, it doesn't matter, you're just gonna get bored and quit way before your map is even 10% finished.
Bored? That can also be true, but you never know if I don't try.
Limerick@ You can have a good game without fancy graphics, look at Deus Ex GOTY.
The reason I brought up Steel Squat because it was a random example that had good architecture side and the outdoor area.
You would be surprised how much damage you can do in 10 seconds, for example:
1) Hacking a train.
2) Tazing the second mercenary for your teammate to sneak into the bottom area where it's hard to scrape him out.
3) If the guy who is trying to break a wall doesn't help 2v1, well then you are screwing up your chances of winning.
4) Strengthening the walls does not mean they will be indestructible, it can mean that it will take 4 nades instead of 2 to make a decent enough hole.
To kill 2 spies, you either get lucky by killing first one, or the second mercenary will assist you, and 5/10 second respawn is enough to get your ass out of the spawn before the mercenary will get to the top of the building and nade the spawn after that.
Don't forget the grenades are not infinite, and wasting them on that and have a big chance of failing is also worth to consider, especially against aggroers.
No, see, I wait until a spy dies, and then I walk upstairs, blow a hole in the wall, and nade the spy when he respawns. Then I wait until he respawns and I do it again, and then a third time, and he's out of the game. That's it, done, no way for him to escape. And as soon as the other spy dies, hey, it's time to spawn nade him too. Done.
And no, a ten second respawn isn't enough to get away. Go try it, stand in front of the office ND, and then walk upstairs and nade that wall. Takes a whole lot less than ten seconds, it does.
It could work on some maps, maybe, but on Steel? Nope. Try thinking about things for five seconds before posting next time.
Then the spy is a noob for dieng? Seriously if a spy dies instantly once the game starts, well it just shows how good are the players you are up against.
When the spy dies, it's a big IF he dies because for 1 mercenary it will take a while to do that, 1 spy can taze while he is aiming at a different spy and you are standing on the top waiting for them to die, what if he doesn't die? A spy can get down to the train hack in less than 10 seconds and instead he will go down for the PC hack while the other one will hack the other building.
So basicly, with a whole slew of IF's thrown around.. IF the spy dies, he'll get spawn naded unless his partner helps him in a 2v2 gameplay scenario, now you're forgetting the 2nd merc here. And IF the spy doesn't die, the game plays out the same it used to. I'm already seeing a shitloads of balance issues with this idea that it wouldn't even be worth the time, making half the walls indestructible for balance's sake is just contradicting the whole point of making PS have destructible walls everywhere anyway. Leave it to the games at which is makes sense and actually works.
Think most of the people are scared of this becoming a reality since this was never done before....everything can be fixed from balance to tactics to graphic visuals. If there are areas that make the map unbalanced, I can add another room, and it will fix the balance of the map.
The possibilities are endless as long as the developers do not remove something that might affect the mapping.
So does anyone got any other questions regarding to the destructability?
What about mines? If you place a mine that explodes, you won't be able to place it again, so I think that's quite neat, you actually have to pick the moments and that disposes some of the unbalanced issues with blocking the areas and preventing the mercenaries from camping and fully cornering a spy when he is alone?
He's gone. Let this be a warning to all. Don't mess around too much with spamming bullshit or low-quality posts and always stay respectful in your manners on the forums, especially towards the developers who are doing this for you. Disagreeing is fine of course, as long as the heated debates don't get too hot.
All post related to this threads recent and complete deriailment have been removed along with the source of the problem. Feel free to continue the discussion.
Damn, I think we just witnessed the end of Charlie Sheen's equivalent. Without the godesses or money :P
Quote from: STON3COLDKILLA on March 11, 2011, 12:36:10 AM
Damn, I think we just witnessed the end of Charlie Sheen's equivalent. Without the godesses or money :P
I thought this post would never unlock so therefore b1nary please delete my part 2 post .
as far as this thread , this is what I have to say :
Ok to put this back into perspective before I vomit from the unreasonability/ imbalance
that I have seen through out the comments , let me set the record straight :
1. having to blast through a wall with 4 nades is just stupid nor is it rational thinking because
not really alot of people will sit there wasting thier nades just to blow a hole through a wall.
a gernade blasts through a wall anyway realistically. You seem to forget that even if a merc
charges through a wall he loses half his health from damage.
2. the idea of spy being spawn naded after he respawns is not rational at all
because hello we aren't dealing with ubisoft here: WINNING , hence zedblade made it not possible
in UMP polarbase not to spawn nade.
3. People who don't have any concept of the game interms of balance please stop posting for the love of god . I want to drive my skull through a brick wall every time I see the lack of knowledge.
4. I live by the philosphy of kiss and I think the team will live by it as well , Its called Kiss
and for all those who don't know it means, it's : KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID , too many of you people
are trying to change the face of the original intent of PS. That is all I have to say from this palace of
wisdom.
Quote from: Wh1tE_Dw4rF on March 04, 2011, 12:31:56 AM
I personally can't see that working. The mercs are protecting property, the last thing the owner wants is to find a pile of rubble after returning from his holidays.
Actually the Mercs are protecting the Data on the computers, not the building it's in.
PS will have plenty of destruction btw. Just not BF3 anything can be destroyed method. That would be fucking stupid for our gameplay type.
I don't even know what the hell is Agent is talking about, but as far as I know it's bashing people and calling them stupid, so that's up to Moderators to figure.
I don't even know which side are you taking.
Enough with the "Mercenaries protecting the property" they are not "Vixen Maids"
And why would this method be fucking stupid? Noone ever accomplished it, so how would anyone know?
Thank god I managed to decipher number 1 from Agent's post, and I do agree with that.
Number 2, I have no clue sorry for the rhyme, but I do not understand wadafak xD
3. No idea, what the hell you blabbering there.
4. Something about philosophy, but your philosophy in general is just an addiction to CT/PT/DA/PS, and in the end resulting a very serious lack of going outside, no offense but it's true and I am not insulting you for the sake of it, so if you can re-do number 4, so I can atleast give a good argument back, otherwise I still do not understand.
So we all agree this idea is stupid? good.
Monterto except the fact that noone has proven anything you just look like a complete moron.
How about a poll? Then we will see :D
Not much point of the poll if people cannot prove something.
We are not talking about proof here... it's about who wants it and who not... you cannot proof your idea either, so it's all just speculation...
......................................
Let's go and Nade the spawn!!! :D