Hi all,
Destruction is, according to some, a form of creation. The big question is: what would you like to see being destructable? Explain in which way and how you can balance it for gameplay purposes (like a Merc blowing up a critical wall from Spy spawn to a hacking-objective PC is not a really good idea).
Hi, I'm new here and I found this website by some link I found in the comments of a video of Spies vs. Mercenaries (I used to play it all the time, but its dead now). It was simply creative and fun. About your idea, I dunno, doesn't sound like such a great feature seeing as how you'd have to change the maps considerably to add in the feature. By the way, are the Mercenaries going to get sound indicators like in Splinter cell Chaos Theory? I hated how it basically gave you the exact direction in which a spy was, which made being a spy way too hard.
I would actually like to see a somesort of heavy physics on shockwaves from the grenade, like if you throw it in a room made out of tiles, the tiles would explode and go everywhere.
Also, grenade explosion should drastically change the smoke area creating by the spies smoke grenade, thus clearing the way for the mercenary, or shrinking it.
Destroyer#@
I think the direction sound detector was a good idea and it wasn't too hard then. It was really avoidable when you used to it and it was a part of tricking the merc. You could use alarm snare to make him go wild.
Back on topic...
The destructable things should be well thought out. Being honest they were pretty good in CT. There weren't too many of them but they were all very well balanced and an important gameplay feature(Factory machines room, clubhouse computer walls) although I hope there will be more epic scenes in PS when it comes to destruction. In aquatius you had breakable vases. It was really cool but there were not many of them and they weren't giving much. I would like to see more of such breakable things which make sound when broken and dust is flying in the air. This makes escapes more thrilling and fun.
Now I hope PS devs put an attention to the aquarius ventilation system... No? Well time to take a look at it. It's very clever because it stops mercs from overusing nades which are powerful and in some cases necessary but throwing them can open a new way for spy.
There should be more physics in destructions in PS. Breakable aquariums, boxes on rope to shoot off instead of pushing stupid buttons. Rolling barrels, Hydrants(imagine a hydrant blew up and the water is striking hard from hit. You push merc into it and he is pushed into the air and knocked out when falling to ground.)
Blowing walls should be up to a mapper but let's imagine a wooden bridge. You stand as a merc under it and a spy is on the top of it running. So I throw a nade, bullcharge to be as far as possible and watch the bridge fall together with spy.
Finally pieces of destructed wall or anything if big enough could be dangers if a big piece of wood hits you, you should be knocked out.
I guess that's it.
Well interactive things like the dozer in factory creating holes in walls is a good idea to expand on. So completing objectives/hacking panels should destroy obstacles and open new paths.
Imo mapper should decide when he wants to make breakable walls(Tea/Lunch, Factory Mechanical Digger, Crane on Steel Squat..) etc.
Some smaller things like vases, lights could be destroyable but for me it doesn't matter.
I think better will be if you will force a view on interaction with environment, let spy grab and throw cans, bottles, maybe wooden parts, golf balls, or if you throw something into TV it changes program or turns off.
Let spy be able to make noise(sabotage) silently without using a snares ( tazer sound and snare shot sound ).
PT/CT never had uber physics, but I never felt it as a bad thing, I liked it. ;)
I agree with Knooger. And if too many things are destructable, the game just becomes too messy.
Make mines, spy traps, spy bullets, alarm snares and sticky cams 'breakable'. What I mean by that is rather than just disappearing when shot, they should explode into little bits :D
Quote from: STON3COLDKILLA on April 13, 2011, 02:10:42 AM
Make mines, spy traps, spy bullets, alarm snares and sticky cams 'breakable'. What I mean by that is rather than just disappearing when shot, they should explode into little bits :D
You guys have a new number 1 priority, Frvge.
UP TO THE MAPPA
Click and drag, make sure everything in the map is selected.
Convert it into 1 huge static mesh.
Fracture tool.
Slice it all into 5 million pieces.
Baam!
Walkways that give holes when an explosion hits it. The whole walkway shouldn't be able to be destroyed though. Just holes you can fall trough if you're not careful. Small things that should make the merc think before throwing nades everywhere.
Pillars that fall down that you have to climb over.
Glass that has been shattered create a patch of broken glass that will make a cracking sound visible on the merc's hud.
Non accessible vents that once broken emit a dark cloud obscuring vision. If you crouch you're "under" the cloud and will see fine.
Pipes that shoot out steam once shot.
Support beams that break off the ceiling once shot enough or by explosion. Creating a maze of poles you have to make your way trough.
This won't work dread... Won't work and you'll feel sorry for wasting time... But god be with you.
I know click and drag and fracture won't work.
That was a joke, and when the editor is going to come out, that's where I will take my sweet time fracturing everything myself. To the last microbe.
Maybe you guys could have some weak ceilings in some areas in which spies can jump on and break them (it will kill any merc underneath).
Unless the UDK has such physics and can be easily implemented, hell yes. But in CT even when mechanical digger plows through the wall and a spy/merc stands near it, you do not die :(
Fracturedmeshes don't do damage and don't have collision as far as I know. The 'original' piece might still have collision and if it's destroyed, the collision might also be still available at the location of the original piece like an invisible wall :P
It needs to be situational, All destruction should have its benefits for the mercs but also downsides.
Imagine a dark room where you can break something in the ceiling and it would shed some light into the room, but once broken it would open up many more paths for the spy.
Aquarius in the greek room was perfect, grenades at the kiosk open a new path into a hard to enter room. but what it also did was enable the merc to shoot grenades through it from the center room to kill an unexpecting spy at the kiosk.
Major destruction needs plus and minuses for the destroyer.
Greek room? Kiosk?
Are you drunk?
Quote from: DreadStunLock on April 15, 2011, 12:31:44 AM
Greek room? Kiosk?
Are you drunk?
He means "objective" I guess?
The Greek Temple room, and kiosk a/k/a terminal a/k/a objective a/k/a the thing you hack to open the doors to the steam room, you know, the room that gets steamy when you blow it up. Talking about Aquarius here.
I am missing something or what, but what kiosk are you talking about in aquarius?
Dread he just explained what he meant by kiosk. I have no idea why he is using the terms he is using but that's what he means.
Ya I remember talking about breaking glass windows in the "cans and things" thread. To shoot the window would be to open a silent path for the spies, but it would also create a large area of glass for the spy to step on and ping the mercs hud on the floor below.
I liked all three multiplayers PT/CT and DA, and a relatively neutral opinion about the gamplays.
on club house in CT, spys were able to blow up the ceiling and stuff like that in the main corridor.
If a merc would be able to blow something up, it would just become a routine action at the beginning of each round in most cases.
Of course each map will be very different, and should have one, or the other, or a bit of both. allowing way more diversity in the game. but one importaint thing is: that it does not become a routine action at the beginning of a round...
one example would be in DA multiplayer (i know, most of you hate DA, but i can relate to it the best, and its a good example) on USS wisdom: If the generator was hacked, or the doors hacked open, the mercs had the opportunity to reset the generator to close them again. if they did, the doors would close, and decrease the number of escape paths for spys and therefore there mobility and flexibility. BUT if those doors were left open it would give the merc a moment of surprise if entering a room, because if a merc opened a door, it made a loud, very obvious noise (that even people without headsets are able to hear) It also gave the opportunity to blast a grande into the room much earlier because there is no door blocking it.
what im trying to say is that. if there are elements in the game that can be destroyed/changed. they should be placed on location that could benefit (or be a threat) to both sides.
because if there would be a room full of i dunno, statues, and the spys could hide behind those, but the statues would be destructible by grenades, at the beginning of each round a merc would just blow the up all. and it would become boring really fast because they have lost there purpose completely for the spy.
in conclusion: The drawback/advantage it gives (or effort it takes) to destroy an object MUST EQUAL TO the drawback/advantage it gives to the other team.
otherwise it would not be interesting, and just another obstacle that numbs down gameplay
wow.... that was a loooooooong thing to write, hope it helped and every body understood it :)
EOT.
And that's why mapper should decide about destroyable things.
As long as the destruction is basicly win-lose situation for both sides I think it should be good. Like in Club House, if you destroy the walls at lunch or tea as merc, you get a fast access to the objective but so do the spies since they don't have to go thro the trouble of walking on the ceiling or thro the lasers. At lunch if you blow open the electric box you can nade the objective, but that even better for the spies because then they can run into lunch from the corridor.
Not necessarily, some destructibles are very difficult to actually destroy, so a lot of the times it favors the mercenary.
Not everything should be up to the community frvge.
Quote from: Wh1tE_Dw4rF on April 13, 2011, 01:13:00 PM
Walkways that give holes when an explosion hits it. The whole walkway shouldn't be able to be destroyed though. Just holes you can fall trough if you're not careful. Small things that should make the merc think before throwing nades everywhere.
Pillars that fall down that you have to climb over.
Glass that has been shattered create a patch of broken glass that will make a cracking sound visible on the merc's hud.
Non accessible vents that once broken emit a dark cloud obscuring vision. If you crouch you're "under" the cloud and will see fine.
Pipes that shoot out steam once shot.
Support beams that break off the ceiling once shot enough or by explosion. Creating a maze of poles you have to make your way trough.
I like this guys ideas.