Who's bright idea was it to AGREE that Motion Visor should have white outlines on the objects in Project Stealth? Who wants a nice fat boot in the ass from Dread? >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Luckily, no one really cares what you think.
PS: I'm a dildoQuote from: VenomousNinja on August 06, 2011, 12:57:10 AM
Luckily, no one really cares what you think.
Dev team begs to differ.
Cronky Edit: No one cares what you two think of each other for sure.
Cronky wins. What's new?
The thread has failed. Move along.
This thread shows so many reasons to why Project Stealth should be delayed and the public doesn't deserve it.
You can lock now.
I don't want to impose a 'give up' attitude on anyone, but we've been talking this game to death for years now. There's absolutely no point discussing it in detail anymore until we've actually seen it running, hence the huge inactivity.
I'd prefer outlines to big boxes tbqh.
Boxes are just for lazy people. Outlines are way cooler.
Quote from: DreadStunlock on August 06, 2011, 02:12:39 PM
This thread shows so many reasons to why Project Stealth should be delayed and the public doesn't deserve it.
Out of curiosity, what are the reasons?
btw, the white outlines are only there when something crosses a certain treshold for speed. Basically, if you run as a Spy when a Merc is in MT, you are screwed, which is what MT is for.
Quote from: frvge on August 06, 2011, 07:09:38 PM
btw, the white outlines are only there when something crosses a certain treshold for speed. Basically, if you run as a Spy when a Merc is in MT, you are screwed, which is what MT is for.
That's not what I mean, the white outlines on the environment, like the screenshot on the theater area or whatever, first screenshot has no outlines on the environment, the other one does. And that's kind of strange, because visions should obscure your vision not enhance it :/
Random thought, but would the Merc moving affect MT? I understand that in CT (and I assume PS) that when you move in MT it works normally, but it seems like if the Merc were moving then eventually everything around him would be going faster than the speed threshold as it goes out of view, or at the very least it seems like it would make some interference. Considering that the Merc, again I assume, can go faster than the speed threshold.
I think I'm over-thinking though, or under-thinking, but now I'm curious.
Quote from: Cronky on August 06, 2011, 07:54:58 PM
Random thought, but would the Merc moving affect MT? I understand that in CT (and I assume PS) that when you move in MT it works normally, but it seems like if the Merc were moving then eventually everything around him would be going faster than the speed threshold as it goes out of view, or at the very least it seems like it would make some interference. Considering that the Merc, again I assume, can go faster than the speed threshold.
I think I'm over-thinking though, or under-thinking, but now I'm curious.
Hmmmmm.....if I decoded this correctly, do you mean that because the PS motion visor as far as I remember has a popping effect instead of like on CT you have a smooth constant track on the spy when moving, it would affect how the mercenary would move and how the visual effect would...make it weird to actually chase a spy oO I am so confused ><
Quote from: DreadStunlock on August 06, 2011, 07:45:44 PM
Quote from: frvge on August 06, 2011, 07:09:38 PM
btw, the white outlines are only there when something crosses a certain treshold for speed. Basically, if you run as a Spy when a Merc is in MT, you are screwed, which is what MT is for.
That's not what I mean, the white outlines on the environment, like the screenshot on the theater area or whatever, first screenshot has no outlines on the environment, the other one does. And that's kind of strange, because visions should obscure your vision not enhance it :/
It obscures your vision of a motionless spy, so there's that.
Moving yourself does not influence the perceived speed of the Spy. It's based on game-world absolute speeds.
Quote from: frvge on August 06, 2011, 10:06:58 PM
Moving yourself does not influence the perceived speed of the Spy. It's based on game-world absolute speeds.
And what about the reason of why the white outlines were added for motion visor?
(NOT ON THE SPY, THE ENVIRONMENT)
I worded that horribly. That, and it was a dumb question. It was pretty much that while the Merc is moving, everything in his vision is moving. Merc's having a comparable, though not the same, speed as the Spy had me thinking that MT would be obscured since everything is moving when the Merc is moving.
...I'm doing it again... Round 3 at explaining this simply...
It seems like MT should only work when the Merc is standing still, or at least be less effective when moving.
(It's dumb now because I thought about it and the Spy would indeed always be going a much faster speed than anything moving around the Merc, even while the Merc is moving. DEDUCED IT MYSELF! Only took me an hour or two! ;))
@Dread
Are you talking about THIS picture?
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.projectstealthgame.com%2Fpublic%2Fscreenshots%2Fearlyvisions%2Fmtshadedfx.jpg&hash=4ffa22900ff3709426b538befe2228db90cc7b86)
Yes, that. That pisses me off a bit. Just a tiny bit, because I do not understand the concept of how it's balanced to have a super crisp vision when you are not meant to have it ¬¬.
Yeah, it is a little much. Course that doesn't seem like it's a final version of the vision at all since it'd be easier than crap see the spy shaped outline in picture two whenever it showed up. I COULD however see the outlines used for maneuverability. Though if it's in the game, then it should be limited to stuff that is REALLY near you. Using the picture as an example, the outline should only probably go to that second row back of the chairs, and start tapering off like 2/3rds of the way down that row.
Especially if the vision gets darker. Since it would be easy (though not AS easy as picture 2) to see a spy.
Quote from: Cronky on August 06, 2011, 10:59:10 PM
Yeah, it is a little much. Course that doesn't seem like it's a final version of the vision at all since it'd be easier than crap see the spy shaped outline in picture two whenever it showed up. I COULD however see the outlines used for maneuverability. Though if it's in the game, then it should be limited to stuff that is REALLY near you. Using the picture as an example, the outline should only probably go to that second row back of the chairs, and start tapering off like 2/3rds of the way down that row.
Especially if the vision gets darker. Since it would be easy (though not AS easy as picture 2) to see a spy.
Agreed. The outline is a bit too much.
Spies won't get that kind of outline. It's merely for navigation of the map.
Quote from: frvge on August 07, 2011, 01:10:54 AM
Spies won't get that kind of outline. It's merely for navigation of the map.
But that's exactly it, there shouldn't be such a luxury, if you use a visor, there has to be limitations of seeing things, not enhancing it ¬¬
Screen elements may be a bit fuzzy (a bit like the chaff effect), so some subtle extra clarity is good.
Remember that it's purely a visual effect. If a Spy doesnt move, he's invisible to DT (Displacement tracking).
Quote from: frvge on August 07, 2011, 01:40:21 AM
Screen elements may be a bit fuzzy (a bit like the chaff effect), so some subtle extra clarity is good.
Remember that it's purely a visual effect. If a Spy doesnt move, he's invisible to DT (Displacement tracking).
What??? What the hell? What are we talking about here???
I am complaining about the outline objects, what does the spy has to do with it :(
But Cronky you can see the outlines of the objects through the spy.
And Dread, it won't matter once everyone gets to know the maps. This would only hurt newbs. Think about it.
For example, someone who has played the map 5-10 times knows that there is an object there, and even if it is blurred out in the vision mode, he won't walk into it.
There should be disadvantages to each vision mode, but there is no real point to making basic objects invisible other than increasing an already-steep learning curve.
Quote from: Farley4Fan on August 07, 2011, 03:32:59 AM
But Cronky you can see the outlines of the objects through the spy.
And Dread, it won't matter once everyone gets to know the maps. This would only hurt newbs. Think about it.
For example, someone who has played the map 5-10 times knows that there is an object there, and even if it is blurred out in the vision mode, he won't walk into it.
There should be disadvantages to each vision mode, but there is no real point to making basic objects invisible other than increasing an already-steep learning curve.
Hmmm...maybe, but it will make mine placement bit slower than usual. And of course, in CT and hopefully in PS too, every second will count.
I think this is a worthy thing to discuss once we get the beta (NOW!), and we can start giving some real feedback based on experience.
3 months.... >:( Farley you are so st00pid (Leeroy Jenkins reference x))
Quote from: DreadStunlock on August 07, 2011, 01:32:52 AM
Quote from: frvge on August 07, 2011, 01:10:54 AM
Spies won't get that kind of outline. It's merely for navigation of the map.
But that's exactly it, there shouldn't be such a luxury, if you use a visor, there has to be limitations of seeing things, not enhancing it ¬¬
Luxery? If a spy isn't moving, it's invisible. So the merc will see absolutely nothing of the spy, but see a billion objects outlined.
Quote from: Morten "MulleDK19" Pedersen on August 07, 2011, 10:35:07 PM
Quote from: DreadStunlock on August 07, 2011, 01:32:52 AM
Quote from: frvge on August 07, 2011, 01:10:54 AM
Spies won't get that kind of outline. It's merely for navigation of the map.
But that's exactly it, there shouldn't be such a luxury, if you use a visor, there has to be limitations of seeing things, not enhancing it ¬¬
Luxery? If a spy isn't moving, it's invisible. So the merc will see absolutely nothing of the spy, but see a billion objects outlined.
Exactly, he gets the luxury of being completely in control and not being in disadvantage at all, unless you guys introduce an energy meter on the mercenaries visors, there will be extensive MT whoring.
? The point of DT is to see moving Spies more clearly. Doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to navigate. Besides, you won't be able to see in dark corners... It's basically normal vision with some added bonus if a Spy is moving and a red hexagon overlay. It serves its purpose perfectly.
If you're talking about downsides:
- Not seeing non-moving Spies
- Slightly moving/distorted overlay
- Not able to use Flash light (probably)
- Depth fall-off so you can't see very far (probably), unless it's a Spy running.
I just know that, without the white outlines, it's not as pleasant to move around the areas because:
It's a bit blurry.
Too much red and no contast.
The white outline gives a lot of contrast and gives you a great control in the environment.
Tbh I don't see what the problem is. Who cares if you can see the environment? No one is going to DT-whore if you can't see spies that aren't moving.
Tbh I never really took MT whoring as seeing the spies black sillhoutte in CT when he is NOT moving, more rather when people just had it always on and never switch it off.
Quote from: DreadStunlock on August 08, 2011, 01:51:29 AM
Tbh I never really took MT whoring as seeing the spies black sillhoutte in CT when he is NOT moving, more rather when people just had it always on and never switch it off.
But being able to see the spy's black silhouette is the whole reason people MT-whored in the first place. It's almost like night vision.
Quote from: DreadStunlock on August 07, 2011, 10:59:17 PM
Exactly, he gets the luxury of being completely in control and not being in disadvantage at all, unless you guys introduce an energy meter on the mercenaries visors, there will be extensive MT whoring.
No disadvantage at all, aside from not being able to see spies.
I think not being able to see the enemy team is actually a pretty big disadvantage Dread.
However on further reflection I've decided that I also think we should remove the outlines because they look bad. Get out of here, ugly lines, making my MT look bad.
Or maybe because they are ugly. As well as, how the hell you guys coded those in? Because something tells me that only official PS maps will have those outlines. I don't think anyone will be bothered adding somekind of an option to every static mesh ><
It's just an extra shader that's part of the DT vision effect. Works on everything. A bit like a 'cartoon' shader that adds big black lines around objects.
Ohhh, so that means no handy work on that right? What about the "What's going to be darker red, and what's lighter?" Is that going to be changeable easily?
Quote from: Morten "MulleDK19" Pedersen on August 07, 2011, 10:35:07 PM
Quote from: DreadStunlock on August 07, 2011, 01:32:52 AM
Quote from: frvge on August 07, 2011, 01:10:54 AM
Spies won't get that kind of outline. It's merely for navigation of the map.
But that's exactly it, there shouldn't be such a luxury, if you use a visor, there has to be limitations of seeing things, not enhancing it ¬¬
Luxery? If a spy isn't moving, it's invisible. So the merc will see absolutely nothing of the spy, but see a billion objects outlined.
OOOOOOOOH. I get it now. Outlines make MUUCH more sense if spies don't even show up in the vision if they aren't moving.
Quote from: DreadStunlock on August 08, 2011, 02:36:13 PM
Ohhh, so that means no handy work on that right? What about the "What's going to be darker red, and what's lighter?" Is that going to be changeable easily?
Based on distance and lighting. C'mon, that's pretty clear from the image.
Quote from: frvge on August 08, 2011, 06:45:59 PM
Quote from: DreadStunlock on August 08, 2011, 02:36:13 PM
Ohhh, so that means no handy work on that right? What about the "What's going to be darker red, and what's lighter?" Is that going to be changeable easily?
Based on distance and lighting. C'mon, that's pretty clear from the image.
Not that naabcake, I mean, will I be able to make everything dark in MT even if I got lightning everywhere? Like in the CT editor?
You can set special vision textures if needed (like for EMT and Thermal vision), but I'm not sure if that's also meant for DT.
ok... i am lost a bit here... so will the environmental outlines fade, if the seen objects are far away?
Quote from: Meister_Neo on August 11, 2011, 09:33:23 PM
ok... i am lost a bit here... so will the environmental outlines fade, if the seen objects are far away?
That'd make sense, unless you want to see shitloads of outlines crumbled together in the far distance. Having a threshold for it in a reasonable distance, that allows you to easily navigate but doesn't clutter the screen in MT is pretty much required for the whole Idea to work.
I haven't seen Mics concept in action for a long time, but I'd say yes, it fades.