I dunno if this has been discussed but I do know that spawns seem to be a bit too static,
are you guys going to make it so that theres more then just a couple of spawning spots, much like how you were going to have the ledge climbing where the ai will determine what ur able to grab on to.
If spawn points are anything like other games, then I think it will be decided by the mapper. Most maps have one static spawn point because (in my head) it's easier to design a map around 1 point when there are objectives. In Deathmatch it wouldn't matter much simply because the Mercs could be anywhere. In Story mode you have to worry about a whole shiz ton of things to make it balanced for both sides.
Again, this is how I see it. I could be wrong. (I like saying that as a safety net)
What's a Static Spawn and what's a difference between a Static Spawn and a Dynamic Spawn? oO
I assume a static spawn is one where you will always show up (i.e. Aquarius in CT. Always on the roof). Dynamic I could only guess would be like... CoD or something. Where you spawn based on someone else's position (or now that I think of it. Kinda like the Merc in general).
I also assume Agent is only talking about spawn points for the Spy, since the Mercs had multiple spawn points on almost every level.
It also seems to be very much dependant on the teams position, if the spy was close to spawn A, the mercenary would spawn in point B.
Yeah, but I think the point of this thread is:
-Will the Spy (and Merc) be able to have more than 1 spawn point on any given level?
--The answer is almost certainly, "Yes, but only if the Mapper sets them up with more than 1".
-Will a mapper be able to set rules as to how/when they would spawn at another spawn point?
--I wouldn't doubt that either.
Course I'm kinda thrown through a loop as to what Agent's last line meant.
Quote from: AgentX_003 on August 12, 2011, 10:59:06 PM
... much like how you were going to have the ledge climbing where the ai will determine what ur able to grab on to.
That part.
I think the Dynamic Spawn system could be explained quite well with how it works in Halo 3 and Reach. The game checks for the enemy teams location and then decides a spawn point based on the available spots and the distance from them to the enemy team, most of the time it also manages to spawn everyone behind some sort of a cover so that you won't get instantly killed.
It can also be used as an advantage. Knowing the possible spawn locations and the approximate distance the game atleast wants to achieve between the enemy player and the spawning player allows you to position yourself around the most likeliest spawn point and get a little bit of an jump start.
Mostly I'd like to see static spawns in PS, it's easier to balance around it and to build the map around it than having 2-4 different spawn points based on different variables and then trying to balance it all out. Of course, if you've got the time and dedication to do it then it could add up to some good gameplay.
Seems to me that Dynamic would work a lot better on DM for either team. Story keeping to static. Though again, Mercs can lean more towards the dynamic as they do in CT in either mode, depending on the size of the map.
It really depends on the mapper. It is easiest to balance a map with only 1 spy spawn spot, but in some cases a map could have more. Say there are 2 or 3 locations in a certain map that give no real advantage to either team no matter where the mercs are on the map, perhaps we could give the spy a choice?
I would actually agree with Dynamic spawning, removes camping.
On the other hand, this thread is a bit odd.
Can the players choose which spawn they use at dynamic spawning (like in "Battlefield") or will it be decided automaticly by some factors?
Quote from: Meister_Neo on August 13, 2011, 01:36:41 AM
Can the players choose which spawn they use at dynamic spawning (like in "Battlefield") or will it be decided automaticly by some factors?
I can bet it will be, should be doable through UDK - Kismet...but might be wrong.
The reason why i brought this up is because in ct its too easy for either team to just camp the living hell out of the spawns ie. museum, spies know where the mercs spawn because there is only two spots where the merc spawns and if something were done about it then there are chances of it being less predictable are higher.
Opinion: It seems you are trying to reduce the amount of teamwork PS requires to get through certain areas.
Spawns depend on the mapper. AFAIK dynamic spawns are possible and spawns in multi-stage maps too.
Quote from: frvge on August 13, 2011, 07:12:30 PM
Spawns depend on the mapper. AFAIK dynamic spawns are possible and spawns in multi-stage maps too.
What about the dev team? What's your opinion on this? To me, I see it this way: Teamwork = no problem? Or am I missing a greater picture?
Spawns seem kinda like a small piece of "Teamwork". For Spies, yes, it would kinda blow to be at one spawn waiting for your partner so you could co-op move somewhere only to have him spawn somewhere else (Would that make station impossible for one player?). Other than that though it seems like everything AFTER spawning determines how well you work together as a team. Just because you spawn somewhere else, doesn't mean you wont know where you are on your map and instantly can go run to backup your teammate.
I think dynamic spawn points works best with Mercs and static for spies, unless we're talking about Death Match. DM could benefit from having dynamic spawn points simply because the objective is the same for both teams, kill each other. Rids yourself of some maps spawn killing potential.
What I'd be interested in though is a Map where both the spies (or less so, Mercs) always start a life at different spawn points.
So my question is:
-Can you specify which spy (or Merc) spawns at a certain spawn point?
We've established that a mapper can indeed set up multiple spawn points, but can you restrict a single player to spawning at just one?
No. Seems illogical.
Illogical? Seems like it'd just be splitting the teams into individual entities.
-Spy 1 spawns here
-Spy 2 spawns here
-Merc 1 spawns here
-Merc 2 spawns here
Yeah, makes no sense to me. Randomness is fine for that.
Imagine someone made a cool level that had sectors, but each sector was opened up by the opposite teammate (Sector 1 is open to Spy 1. Spy 1 opens sector 2 for Spy 2. Spy 2 opens sector 3 for Spy 1. Etc etc.). The level is set up so that the teammate not currently opening up a sector always had a vantage point over the one that did as to provide backup and help stop the Merc(s). If randomness on spawn points is active then eventually the spies would screw up and both be on the same side, thus not being able to finish the level.
A specific example yes, but the ability to specify a specific spawn for each Spy and/or Merc can open up even more map designs.
Semi-isolating routes through the levels like that works well in Portal 2's Coop, but I don't see how it'd work in a normal PS game. For now, the answer is no.
That's because nobody has done it! It's going to be awesome. You'll see! ;)
KISMET!
right?
I think I totally missed the point of that whole video.
Quote from: Farley4Fan on August 15, 2011, 09:18:34 AM
KISMET!
right?
I think I totally missed the point of that whole video.
The thing is Farley, Agent never ever used UDK in his life and I can tell he lied about that this topic was discussed alot sijce this thread holds absolutely no value, cause he thinks that spawn points are randomly generated and have limited options. If we delete every post and leave just the one above. The thread is pretty much solved.
P.S: Notice how 90% of the threads Agent starts always begin with "This shit was discussed alot"
Static spawns would be fine and to remove spawn camping mappers would have to make at least three ways out of the Spy spawn.
That way if the two mercs are camping two routes the third one is open (or fourth as the case may or may not be). Let them camp
all they want, the Spys will find go around them another way. This is as long as no two spawns can be camped at the same time
(seen from one merc).
Exactly, as well as clever places for camnet, and not cheesy shit like you can see the spawn, for example poor map design on Polar base, Missile Strike, Club House, Factory and many more.
Knooger ruined steel squat for me.
Question: Why the f*ck(!) is it called steel squat?
Because it's made out of steel and it gives jack shit of a squat?
Quote from: DreadStunlock on August 15, 2011, 07:02:18 PM
Exactly, as well as clever places for camnet, and not cheesy shit like you can see the spawn, for example poor map design on Polar base, Missile Strike, Club House, Factory and many more.
Oh? So River Mall's "i always know where you are"-camnet was ok for you? Well it's the opposite: The only place where you do NOT know the location of the spy, is the spawn...
Quote from: Farley4Fan on August 15, 2011, 10:57:27 PM
Knooger ruined steel squat for me.
Question: Why the f*ck(!) is it called steel squat?
Nice to hear that, I think i ruined a lot of maps for a lot of people. But how did I?
Quote from: DreadStunlock on August 15, 2011, 07:02:18 PM
Exactly, as well as clever places for camnet, and not cheesy shit like you can see the spawn, for example poor map design on Polar base, Missile Strike, Club House, Factory and many more.
Actually Factory is good map and it's pretty balanced. CT camnet suck so much - overpowered or just too weak.
River Mall as well... I did say .etc dumzy. :)
Quote from: DreadStunlock on August 16, 2011, 02:35:45 AM
River Mall as well... I did say .etc dumzy. :)
impersonating agent:
"No sir! You have clearly said "and many more"! That is not the same as et cetera! "and many more" can be
interpreted (ah no i mean)
intrptit (ahh w/e you know what i mean, sir1) in many ways.
HAHAHA PWNED SIR!"
nah jokes aside you are right... at least this time 8)... BTW i still want to join as a third party in your's and Agent's flame
(/troll)wars! They look like fun and motivate people to be active :P
.................Problem?
Trolololol !
Quote from: Meister_Neo on August 16, 2011, 02:24:15 AM
Quote from: DreadStunlock on August 15, 2011, 07:02:18 PM
Exactly, as well as clever places for camnet, and not cheesy shit like you can see the spawn, for example poor map design on Polar base, Missile Strike, Club House, Factory and many more.
Oh? So River Mall's "i always know where you are"-camnet was ok for you? Well it's the opposite: The only place where you do NOT know the location of the spy, is the spawn...
but river is balanced because there are many spots for the spy to move from location to location rather then being pinned.. ie. its easy to camp maps like off shore oil rig, polarbase ,deftech and museum to say the least, thats what Im talking about regarding into having multiple spawns for both teams, so it raises the bar for that factor of you don't know whats coming next type of feel.
Quote from: Meister_Neo on August 16, 2011, 04:24:12 AM
Quote from: DreadStunlock on August 16, 2011, 02:35:45 AM
River Mall as well... I did say .etc dumzy. :)
impersonating agent:
"No sir! You have clearly said "and many more"! That is not the same as et cetera! "and many more" can be interpreted (ah no i mean) intrptit (ahh w/e you know what i mean, sir1) in many ways.
HAHAHA PWNED SIR!"
nah jokes aside you are right... at least this time 8)... BTW i still want to join as a third party in your's and Agent's flame(/troll)wars! They look like fun and motivate people to be active :P
.................Problem? Trolololol !
i lol'd
Quote from: AgentX_003 on August 16, 2011, 05:40:12 AM
Quote from: Meister_Neo on August 16, 2011, 02:24:15 AM
Quote from: DreadStunlock on August 15, 2011, 07:02:18 PM
Exactly, as well as clever places for camnet, and not cheesy shit like you can see the spawn, for example poor map design on Polar base, Missile Strike, Club House, Factory and many more.
Oh? So River Mall's "i always know where you are"-camnet was ok for you? Well it's the opposite: The only place where you do NOT know the location of the spy, is the spawn...
but river is balanced because there are many spots for the spy to move from location to location rather then being pinned.. ie. its easy to camp maps like off shore oil rig, polarbase ,deftech and museum to say the least, thats what Im talking about regarding into having multiple spawns for both teams, so it raises the bar for that factor of you don't know whats coming next type of feel.
You think River Mall is balanced? I don't know about you, but players with a skill somewhere in the level of Sithduke and Blackveldt together as a mercenary team on that map you are toasted. And all the vents lead to the same area most of the time apart of the few, but all you do is camp on the rails and you can shoot grenades timed.
And raising a bar? What? I am playing deftec and instead of spawning behind the trains I will spawn right inside the building, right next to the PC? Yeah, that will be very balanced. I will die 3 times I will have 1 life, and I will spawn and hack the PC and I win xD
Nobody said that PS maps will be same retarded like CT maps are. If you want multiple spawns then you need design map different than for one spawn place. And we are not talking about multiple spawns for CT. EOT.
And River Mall is balanced, but it's kinda hard map to get trought kiosk to objectives which are away. If you get to HiFi room then merc tactic on that map is changed dramatically with profits for spions team.
Quote from: Meister_Neo on August 16, 2011, 02:24:15 AM
Quote from: DreadStunlock on August 15, 2011, 07:02:18 PM
Exactly, as well as clever places for camnet, and not cheesy shit like you can see the spawn, for example poor map design on Polar base, Missile Strike, Club House, Factory and many more.
Oh? So River Mall's "i always know where you are"-camnet was ok for you? Well it's the opposite: The only place where you do NOT know the location of the spy, is the spawn...
You are wrong, it's possible to "cheat" that camnet :)
Quote from: KnoogeR on August 16, 2011, 03:44:28 PM
Nobody said that PS maps will be same retarded like CT maps are. If you want multiple spawns then you need design map different than for one spawn place. And we are not talking about multiple spawns for CT. EOT.
And River Mall is balanced, but it's kinda hard map to get trought kiosk to objectives which are away. If you get to HiFi room then merc tactic on that map is changed dramatically with profits for spions team.Quote from: Meister_Neo on August 16, 2011, 02:24:15 AM
Quote from: DreadStunlock on August 15, 2011, 07:02:18 PM
Exactly, as well as clever places for camnet, and not cheesy shit like you can see the spawn, for example poor map design on Polar base, Missile Strike, Club House, Factory and many more.
Oh? So River Mall's "i always know where you are"-camnet was ok for you? Well it's the opposite: The only place where you do NOT know the location of the spy, is the spawn...
You are wrong, it's possible to "cheat" that camnet :)
Using bugs ain't the proper way, even though not many people mind them.