Pros and cons of lights that can be either turned off or destroyed...
Few ideas are
Breaker box where lights can be turned off en-mass (Merc can turn back on)
Shootable lights (Temporary if shocked, permanent if shot with a bullet)
Destructable lights (permanently destroyed no matter what they are shot with)
Light Switches in a room or area - usable by both merc and spy - some maps or some areas could also start with the light off and as the merc set up mines and what not they will turn on lights as well. Then you can say, hey! I turned the tea room light on and now it's off... are they trying to lure me or are they really there... Hmmm ???
Anyhow, could cause balance issues, could be just a fun element of game play or could be altogether a bad idea...Discuss
They're already present in PT/CT, so I don't see any reason why PS would exclude dynamic lighting.
They should be just like the ones in Orphanage.
The way the dynamic lights work in PT and CT is a major drain on your system and makes the map run like hell if you have to many. We have a chance with the new engine to make more than just a few. What I am talking about is an implementation if destructible lighting that would allow the spies to darken areas up and provide a little more of a stealth type option or even using them tactically. The uses, pros and cons are yet to be explored.
Since we're apparently making mostly new maps, I don't see why anyone wouldn't want this. Little balance issues since we are stuffing a new concept for maps that will be designed for it. And in some places, mappers could be creative on why the light can't be destroyed (like using sunlight or those "light poles" in Clubhouse which look rather tough).
B1nary, wtf are you talking about? I get no fps loss at all on Aquarius, Factory Digger Room, Orphanage 2nd Floor, Missile Strike sect 2 basement, Museum storage area, Deftech Buildings A, B, and C, Warehouse Sector 2, River Mall Main Entry, Zioplex, and Schermerhorn Water Room corridors.
All of the above maps have dynamic lights that are either shootable, hackable, or chaffable. The ones in Deftech, Aquarius, and Zioplex are particularly useful for spies from a tactical standpoint. I guaruntee there are more that I'm not thinking of right now.
So once again, this is already an extensive feature in CT and PT.
a feature that has no influence at all
ubi left the field of light&shadow based stealth, so let's kick ass and take this to a completely new level :D
Quote from: Spekkio on August 23, 2007, 07:42:49 PM
B1nary, wtf are you talking about? I get no fps loss at all on Aquarius, Factory Digger Room, Orphanage 2nd Floor, Missile Strike sect 2 basement, Museum storage area, Deftech Buildings A, B, and C, Warehouse Sector 2, River Mall Main Entry, Zioplex, and Schermerhorn Water Room corridors.
All of the above maps have dynamic lights that are either shootable, hackable, or chaffable. The ones in Deftech, Aquarius, and Zioplex are particularly useful for spies from a tactical standpoint. I guaruntee there are more that I'm not thinking of right now.
So once again, this is already an extensive feature in CT and PT.
Unless they use double lightmapping trickery. And you can't really tell because all the lights (except Rivermall) turn off at once so it would be pretty easy to just switch between two light maps.
But it is a fact that dynamic lighting is slower than static lighting (because we fake stuff a lot). It doesn't mean anyone is right because "a lot of lights" and "no fps loss" aren't exactly objective terms. It's also off-topic.
i can't stand any more debates on system requirements, plz stfu.
It's not a debate. CT did not use this kind of thing dynamically. You will notice that most all the SC SP modes have 99% dynamic light.
This was probably not done online, simply because they try to create fast rendering level for low end systems, so you don't lag online.
However, I vote for MOST ALL lights in Project Stealth to by dynamic. It should be implemented like in DA versus, where if you shoot a light out that was really bright and covered a lot of area, a darker ambient light somewhere triggers on.
I like destructible lighting. I think lights you shoot should stay out permanently. I generally didn't think the river mall temporary lighting was all that useful to shoot out, because the light comes back. Destroying a destructible should take it out permanently, otherwise it's no good.
totally dependant on the map tbh. map designers have the choice to put it in or not. I'm assuming this would be an easier way to balance out maps if it comes out as biased towards a team upon the final result.
Also, since you have a Sticky Shocker, it more like stuns the electrical current or something, not break the bulb.
what is a "sticky shocker" anyway lolz
Quote from: Gawain on August 23, 2007, 10:14:53 PM
what is a "sticky shocker" anyway lolz
get a brain
Quote from: iservealot on August 23, 2007, 10:01:20 PM
Also, since you have a Sticky Shocker, it more like stuns the electrical current or something, not break the bulb.
the sticky shocker is still an object, and glass is rather fragile. perfectly feasible imo.
Quote from: Bionic-Blob on August 23, 2007, 11:42:16 PM
Quote from: Gawain on August 23, 2007, 10:14:53 PM
what is a "sticky shocker" anyway lolz
get a brain
fuck off. nobody knows how something like the sticky shocker would work in reality.
Still you knew what the SS was...Get a brain.
something like a SS would likely blow out the ballast on a florescent light, other lights it could burn out wires, filaments etc. Zap a lamp with a stun gun and tell me what happens :)
Quote from: B1nArY_001 on August 24, 2007, 02:30:47 AM
something like a SS would likely blow out the ballast on a florescent light, other lights it could burn out wires, filaments etc. Zap a lamp with a stun gun and tell me what happens :)
It's a game....
I win! haha
It wouldn't really effect balance because spies can't permanently turn them off. This would be cool, definately.
man you people are dumb. all i was pointing out is that it's absolutely pointless to discuss what a real ss would cause when fired on a light, as it's a totally unrealistic game.
stop flaming me for no reason
http://www.jaycor.com/web-content/eme_ltl_sticky.html (http://www.jaycor.com/web-content/eme_ltl_sticky.html)
it's funny that there is a similar gadget in development with the same name.
but this kind of weapon works only within a radius of 10m, has some kind of bullets that require loading after each shot and time to fly to the target. the effect on a merc would be kinda stunning, and it could destroy lights with its impact but surely got no emp effect.
maybe it could get interesting making the ss more powerful in close combat, but taking away the possibility to shock at targets far away (scattering exponential to the distance). at least for me, it's very hard to shock mercs in large distances anyway with the mouse raster.
I never destroyed lighting in CT.
It doesnt offer THAT much of an advantage, plus the mercs now know where you generally are, since you have to be within line of sight of the light.
And they have like a ton of tools to find you. I say no to breakable light sources. It will only drain fps, since it won't be used that much.
Quote from: MR.Mic on August 24, 2007, 09:37:47 PM
I never destroyed lighting in CT.
It doesnt offer THAT much of an advantage, plus the mercs now know where you generally are, since you have to be within line of sight of the light.
Well of course not, because the lights come back on.
But imagine if they stayed off permanently. Then we might see people destroying them on their first go through the map to make subsequent move easier.
I mean sometimes I use a strategy on clubhouse where my first action is to try to desrtoy as many destroyables as I can without infiltrating anything, just so my other 3 lives don't give anything away.
But it has to be permanent destruction for people to care about it.. I mean destroying lights in DA was totally worth it.
it didn't help in CT because of Nightvision MT. bear in mind we won't have that.
Quote from: Bionic-Blob on August 24, 2007, 11:47:24 PM
it didn't help in CT because of Nightvision MT. bear in mind we won't have that.
absolutely right.
In CT the maps weren't that dark, compared to PT anyways. Having destructible lights would be really useful if maps were as lit up as in CT. I usually would find myself hiding behind cover and not in shadows most of the time, reason being is that mercs had "night vision" motion vision, and they could easily use flashlights to find me. I found it much easier to hide using cover, but when the lights were off I would always be out in the shadows lurking throughout. I would love it if I could permanently turn off the lights and be able to use shadows more often.
One thing that I liked about DA was that as a merc you were able to change the width of your flashlight. If you extended the width the range of the flashlight decreased, if you extended the range of your flashlight the width of your flashlight would decrease. This would help for locating spies in a dark room that was rather big. That would be a big help in project stealth if the destructible lighting thing got into the game.
Quote from: Bionic-Blob on August 24, 2007, 11:47:24 PM
it didn't help in CT because of Nightvision MT. bear in mind we won't have that.
It wasnt that. I didnt shoot out lights because it lets the mercs know where you are.
Quote from: MR.Mic on August 25, 2007, 04:17:23 AM
Quote from: Bionic-Blob on August 24, 2007, 11:47:24 PM
it didn't help in CT because of Nightvision MT. bear in mind we won't have that.
It wasnt that. I didnt shoot out lights because it lets the mercs know where you are.
If most ever single light was destructible, and turned back on after a while, it might just be helpful. ;)
You could also turn off a light in some other room as like a distraction to make a merc believe you were in that area. :-\ Couldn't you? That coupled with a couple alarm snares in there and it would be a sure bet that any merc would go check it out. I see a whole lot of advantages to this feature.
Quote from: MR.Mic on August 25, 2007, 04:17:23 AM
Quote from: Bionic-Blob on August 24, 2007, 11:47:24 PM
it didn't help in CT because of Nightvision MT. bear in mind we won't have that.
It wasnt that. I didnt shoot out lights because it lets the mercs know where you are.
you could shoot out lights whenever you are/will be detected anyways. furthermore if there are destructible lights throughout the whole map, you can safely shoot it out when the merc isn't close. distractions and traps are possible, too. i like the idea of a new tactical element, and i think it's a good thing that it's influence won't be such big and totally depend on the map design so that the original scct gameplay can be conserved.
The lights don't always need to be shot out right when you are going to be there. if it breaks them for the duration of the match or knocks them out for a few minutes you can shoot them out as you pass through to take advantage of it later. or as was stated already, would make a good lure. Depending on your play style you might WANT the merc to come to you. To lure him away from your team mate or to kill him, etc.
Quote from: B1nArY_001 on August 25, 2007, 04:14:52 PM
The lights don't always need to be shot out right when you are going to be there. if it breaks them for the duration of the match or knocks them out for a few minutes you can shoot them out as you pass through to take advantage of it later. or as was stated already, would make a good lure. Depending on your play style you might WANT the merc to come to you. To lure him away from your team mate or to kill him, etc.
Yeah, I always imagine people would do a quick run through early to try to knock out some lights to make things easier later.
It also creates an interesting dynamic: expose yourself now, but make stealth easier later.
Destructible lighting was one of the few things I liked about DA. It was kind of cool that you could plunge a room into near total darkness.
However, if it's in near-total darkness, Spies might be too powerful. A merc's flashlight is weak in spots like Digger Room in Factory.
It'll need some balancing.
emf ghosting any1? ^^
What about the sizable flashlight? Like in DA? You can make it longer and narrower or shorter and wider.
I like this idea, as it was one of my favorite things from DA. As a Spy, it could be your greatest friend, and your worst enemy. I have spotted quite a few spies because I happen to look down a hallway as they turn off a light, and as a spy I have messed with a lot of Merc's heads by turning off lights further away from me to make them wonder where I am. Quite a useful feature, I think it should definitely be an option per map.
the adjustable flashlight was one of the very little "features" that i liked in scda. the flashlight needs a little bit more range anyway...
^ agree, it could be useful especially considering PS may have destructible lighting and darker maps.
Quote from: Papa Skull on August 26, 2007, 08:51:06 PM
^ agree, it could be useful especially considering PS may have destructible lighting and darker maps.
Even tho i don't know who the hell you are , ill say this I sorta agree with your point but , ill articulate upon that , and that being said , I really think ya , there should be the element of lights being destructible.. because then things like ie. Flares would be come of actual use , and the Intensity Scare factor would be there of not knowing when the spy is gonna come up behind you, perfect example : Warehouse.. imagine all the lights broken and your searching for your life in the black abyss .
on A final Note, Play this game on PC, so you can't actually quote things to a prestige point
agent***, you are really amusing ^^
On warehouse there is a window with light coming through it.( moonlight, sunlight, whatever ) so the lights couldn't go out anyways, unless you could destroy the moon with your shocker gun lol... But I know what you mean, and the sizable flashlight would be in good use in a pitch black map.
PS it was kind of hard to read your post so I hope I understood you correctly.
warhouse would be np in pitch black. simply camp in the middle with dial backpack and spam frags whenever some1 hacks.
Quote from: AgentX_003 on August 26, 2007, 10:36:52 PM
Quote from: Papa Skull on August 26, 2007, 08:51:06 PM
^ agree, it could be useful especially considering PS may have destructible lighting and darker maps.
Even tho i don't know who the hell you are , ill say this I sorta agree with your point but , ill articulate upon that , and that being said , I really think ya , there should be the element of lights being destructible.. because then things like ie. Flares would be come of actual use , and the Intensity Scare factor would be there of not knowing when the spy is gonna come up behind you, perfect example : Warehouse.. imagine all the lights broken and your searching for your life in the black abyss .
on A final Note, Play this game on PC, so you can't actually quote things to a prestige point
Run on sentence! haha...sorry
Quote from: Gawain on August 27, 2007, 12:38:25 AM
warhouse would be np in pitch black. simply camp in the middle with dial backpack and spam frags whenever some1 hacks.
Oh god that would suck.
Why did you say sorry? That wasn't your run on sentence ???
Quote from: Gawain on August 27, 2007, 12:38:25 AM
warhouse would be np in pitch black. simply camp in the middle with dial backpack and spam frags whenever some1 hacks.
Yeah, one of the many reasons why warehouse sucks balls.
I generally prefer a little bit more to level design than just making the level such that you can bounce a frag to any of the objectives from the center of the level.
The lights stay off permanently in UMP krauser and the map has the MT fix on it. It's still not that useful because of this thing called EMF. The darker the room is, the more you are forced to use your specialty visions.
I like the idea of being "forced" to use your visions because you aren't truely forced to do anything, just really really encouraged to do so. So imagine a merc sweeping a room so dark that the only thing you can see is their EMF. Your only choice is to either wander blindly and risk hitting something that makes noise, use NV when he's not looking or wait for the merc to leave.
I don't think lighting plays enough of a role in the current CT.
Quote from: Overstatement on August 27, 2007, 09:59:43 PM
I like the idea of being "forced" to use your visions because you aren't truely forced to do anything, just really really encouraged to do so. So imagine a merc sweeping a room so dark that the only thing you can see is their EMF. Your only choice is to either wander blindly and risk hitting something that makes noise, use NV when he's not looking or wait for the merc to leave.
It would be kind of interesting if walking into a wall in the dark actually made noise.