Ive got an idea. What if before the game starts you could choose the "type" of merc you want to play. Mercs would be divided into few cathegories and every of them would have an extra ability ( I mean an ability, not a gadget). That would be:
Merc Sprinter - Allows you to run faster for few secs
Merc Sniper - When you zoom, you get no (or less) brief penalty
Merc Basher - You get an extra metre (or more) when you charge and your charge takes more health
when hit by (2/3)?
Merc Survivalist - When you fall from height, you get less freeze time, you lose less HP and when the
spy falls onto your head or strikes you down, you lose less health (need to fall or strike
3 times instead of 2 to kill you) and (or not) third - you go unconcious for shorter time
when these 2 are performed. This should not be OP so perhaps its ok when only part of
it is included into this ability.
Perhaps spies should also have abilities. If you like my ideas I could think about them as well.
Abilities would not affect the look of the character and would be a nice additional option that could make the game less predictable and more entertaining. Abilities listed above were thought so they are not OP or make the game impossible to win by spy.
I think that cool bonuses can be done using % but im not sure if you guys can implement them.
Waiting for your opinions.
Classes would be cool however, it would require more testing for balance. We already have a good idea of what works thanks to the games we are taking inspiration from.
I have some Spy classes:
Acrobat - less damage from falls, faster rolling.
Silencer - Wider neck hitbox on mercs.
Thief - Gets more sneaking power, no noise when moving crouched or something
Tank - Gets 6 pieces of eq, and gets more damage from falling.
OH god, the last thing we need is this turning into a Rpg like world of war crack =/. Soo no to all the above ..=/.
Quote from: AgentX_003 on October 26, 2007, 07:18:00 PM
OH god, the last thing we need is this turning into a Rpg like world of war crack =/. Soo no to all the above ..=/.
Nah, it seems more like team fortress. But given that there's only 2 members to each team, classes seem sort of pointless.
I think it's a nice little touch. Needs to be thought out tho.
its about bonuses. You decide on a bonus but cant get everything.
I always thought classes would be cool, but that would have to be a game mode for the future if anything at all. No replacing. We can't stray away from the core elements of SvM. It's great how it is.
Quote from: Vega on October 26, 2007, 10:42:51 PM
I always thought classes would be cool, but that would have to be a game mode for the future if anything at all. No replacing. We can't stray away from the core elements of SvM. It's great how it is.
Yeah if classes are implemented I'd like to see them entirely different. Not just small bonus boosts. Something like having the DA spy as a choice, wtih some added security bypassing upgrades, but low offensive capability.
NO.
Quote from: neth on October 26, 2007, 06:41:00 PM
Abilities would not affect the look of the character and would be a nice additional option that could make the game less predictable and more entertaining.
less reliable game mechanics = less competitive approach = worse for good players
Dude it was said that IF it's going too be made, it's gonna be a new gamemode, so stfu.
it's way too less for a new game mode, so you stfu.
It's a big enough change to make new maps for it, so stfu.
This is not going to be team fortress.
Both of you chill.
Most everything listed is not going to change game play enough to spend the time implementing it. The speed increase for the merc would change way to much. Even a minor increase allowing a merc to move from one side of a level to another 2-3 seconds faster than the normal speed would completely ruin balance. Those few seconds are enough to make it nearly impossible to balance, who do you balance the map for? The normal speed merc? The fast merc? The heavily armored merc? Would be nice but it won't work for this mod.
1. ehm, I said nothing about classes, these are just bonuses that could be a nice innovation.
2. Binary youre totally wrong. The fact that a merc can run few metres faster cant ruin the gameplay...
I know that CT was a great game but plz dont act like: we wont add anything significant, we wont change anything cause it will ruin the game!
Quote from: neth on October 27, 2007, 12:01:39 AM2. Binary youre totally wrong. The fact that a merc can run few metres faster cant ruin the gameplay... I know that CT was a great game but plz dont act like: we wont add anything significant, we wont change anything cause it will ruin the game!
Not to be rude but when you've made a map for a S.A.M. and had to balance distances between objectives and hack locations get back in touch. There are a lot of issues that can arise from a merc being able to guard multiple objectives to easily. I don't know you so I won't presume to know your skill level, but if you have played any number of rounds against good players (far better than average) you should understand how vital 1-2 seconds can be.
Edit: Adding new features is great and I'm all for it, we just need to keep them within the bounds of what can be balanced easily and that the new features remain balanced AND useful. We should also probably avoid adding so many new things that it just becomes bloated.
binary is right, the sprint ability would ruin the balance.
i can't really see any positive effect on gameplay besides people feeling like they personalized their merc/spy, and i think allowing different colors for the lights on the spy only visible to himself and his mate would work for this purpose much better, and so would do different faces for the merc (maybe you could use a picture of your own face?). if the mercs could have their own (maybe clan specific) graffiti logo like in cs (but only creatable once) would be cool, too. just doing some brainstorming about unimportant things...
I would decline this suggestion!
LOL.. And as I see it Merc Survivalist = Invincible Super War Machine
Why not choose this each time? It got no negative things!
The only was this would work if it was choosing between a DA spy with the hacking arm and no gun and a CT spy, and two other kinds of mercs.
Right now we arn't focusing on that, but later we might try new things.
spies should ALWAYS have a speed/agility/acrobatics advantage. It is one of their only defenses really. If mercs were as fast as them or they were as slow as mercs, they would die, all the time.
Quote from: Papa Skull on October 27, 2007, 04:51:18 AMthey would die, all the time.
I think they already do ;)
Maybe incorporate the chart that DA had for spies and mercs (3 sections each). As you get a higher percentage you gain better abilities, as opposed to a new leet suit or something.
NO. same starting conditions for everyone and atleast one thing the spies can know before the game starts. STFU with this rpg/console crap.
Quote from: MulleDK13 on October 27, 2007, 12:56:42 AM
I would decline this suggestion!
LOL.. And as I see it Merc Survivalist = Invincible Super War Machine
Why not choose this each time? It got no negative things!
Because it would be balanced ? Because i only gave the suggestions ?
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I agree that there should be same starting conditions for everyone.
About running - there are many ways to make it balanced but i see your point of view, still I think abilities could be nice but it seems theres no support for this idea.
Woah, gawain, you made me laugh at how fucking stupid that post was!! :D Thanks.
Some of the best RPG's ever were ONLY MADE FOR THE FUCKING PC!!! who the fuck do you think you are? That is the stupid stereotypical shit that no one needs. OMG IT IS COnSolE IT muST BE a RPg!@!
But, I agree with you. No different classes/skill types/suits of magic abilities. I would like different skins though, but they shouldn't affect gameplay.
oh i didn't connect rpg with console (i'm well aware of wow and gw etc). i used "/" because the both are in the same category for me: stupidity.
That's YOUR opinion, so keep it to yourself and speak only 'bout PS plz.
Also, the can be like 2 classes for spy and 2 for mercs, so it matches your playstyle.
Say one aggro spy (Takes less damage, needs 3 charges to die, but he has less acrobatic abilities[say no combo making, needs a stop every time he jumps :P]).
And one stealthy spy (makes noise ONLY when standing, can make acrobatic combos[say has better balance skill], but he loses 3/4 health after one charge (1,5 charge to die)).
I'd also like the elbow hits to make the characters pass out after they take 3-4 punches in their face within a time limit (3 punches in the face in 5 seconds - you sleep for 6 seconds, including wake-up time).
Quote from: Gawain on October 27, 2007, 11:40:28 AM
STFU with this rpg/biased/gawain crap.
There we go...
There's way too much "Stfuing" going on around here.
Stfuing is hard to pronounce. Try it lol
Vega sucks.
STFU!
One way to handle CT "classes" is not by handing out extra abilities but making that limit the equipment/weapon package, like in Team Fortress. It may actually help gadget balance some.
Btw this assumes the gas mask is integral to all mercs.
So you could have something like
Tracker
Weapon: Sniper Rifle
Gadgets: Spytraps, camnet, phosphur grenades, Drones
Guardian
Weapon: Uzi
Gadgets: Mines, frags, tazer, backpack
Assault
Weapon: uzi
Gadgets: Dual Frags (8 frags), phosphur grenades (10 phosphur), tazer
Berserker
Weapon: Shotgun
Gadgets: mines, tazer, backpack, infinite gas mask
Support
Weapon: sniper rifle
Gadgets: Phosphur grenade, backpack, camnet, spytraps
Obviously it'd have to be fine tuned, but I could see that working to some degree. That way we could only assign certain gadgets to certain merc types.
Though this is a pretty extreme fix, it might actually be cool for the game.
Yeah, instead of infinite gas mask it wouldn't have to be just extended gas mask. Infinite would be omfg retarded. I would just take a decent amount of everything. Meaning that I would be decent in every category, and not amazing or weak in any category. I would rather not have a big weakness. Like being a berserker, you would have NO long range capabilities whatsoever. Therefore, spies could just stay away and they wouldn't be affected by you ever. I vote no for classes, it isn't really Splinter Cell style.
TF2 and bf2142 are awesome games, but nothing like pt/ct/ps. plz stop with the classes bs.
My concept was not about classes but abilities, ppl made it classes
Quote from: Gawain on October 29, 2007, 10:55:41 AM
TF2 and bf2142 are awesome games, but nothing like pt/ct/ps. plz stop with the classes bs.
Well if we have trouble with balancing gadgets in a free-form selection system, classes might actually help in that regard. That way, a class that's otherwise really strong could get a shit gadget like flares or phosphur instead of frags to compensate. Similarly, a good gadget loadout could get a crap weapon like the shotgun.
Would add a bit more diversity to the game too, since you might be forced to take/use gadgets you otherwise might not have.
So while I really don't think we need classes, it might be something to try to increase the variety in the game.
At first look, I really dislike the idea of not being able to select exactly what I want to.
Quote from: Gui Brazil on October 29, 2007, 05:59:03 PM
At first look, I really dislike the idea of not being able to select exactly what I want to.
Yeah, I do too. It's pretty extreme, and probably not even needed.
Though sometimes with a game, free selection makes for a less diverse game than class or kit based selection. Right now though, there probably just aren't enough gadgets to warrant this sort of thing.
If we end up adding a lot of gadgets (especially powerfully controversial ones), a class system may be a good idea to balance them out.
Especially if you could swap your class after a death, or possibly even at your spawn point, it might actually add more depth and strategy to the game and encourage changing around your gear to suit the situation. So if a bunch of mercs are running around in maxmum detect mode, the spies may both switch to aggro class and rush them. Mercs built to beat aggro might encourage spies to swap to stealth, and so on. It'd add a little more dymanics to the match and somewhat decrease the guessing game when picking equipment.
so u want uzi and nades to be together...but sniper and nades not to be?
Quote from: Westfall-US on October 29, 2007, 07:15:18 PM
so u want uzi and nades to be together...but sniper and nades not to be?
No, not really. Those were just examples I created off the top of my head. I don't think those are anywhere near balanced.
Really like I said, classes work better when all classes have unique equipment or at least mostly unique equipment.
I think there should still be freedom to select whatever you want aside, from classes at this point.
Let ppl take eq they want to take and dont force them. My abilities idea was about giving something new, not connected with eq.