This is just simply for feedback and the durations and affects may not be balanced. This is also something that has not been discussed by all of the other Devs.
Additional gadget for Spy - Adrenaline/Antidote: Injectable syringe with a 2 second application time while remaining immobile. Affects on teammate as antidote are removal of poison from poison mine and full health Affects on self as Adrenaline are minor movement speed increase including climbing speeds and immunity to charge knockdown (still receive damage and cancels all actions E.G. hacking).
5 Syringes administrable only as Adrenaline on self and Antidote on teammate.
(Health boxes would no longer cure poison)
(Berserk will still incapacitate spy)
(Charge does not knock down but it still knocks back, cancels actions and takes half health)
Application time: 2 seconds while immobile
Duration of Adrenaline affect: 6 seconds
Feel free to flame it to hell and back, just a random thought.
Quote from: B1nArY_001 on December 03, 2007, 10:46:26 PM
(Health boxes would no longer cure poison)
It sounds good, although it would have to be tested of course, except for this point. I don't think you should be depending on it to cure poison.
No offense to this idea but why can't we start thinking of gadgets that help stealth and intelligence instead of surviving interactions with the merc and teamwork (teamwork is great, a gadget based mostly around teamwork isn't IMO).
It won't be based on teamwork if you can use it on yourself.. Backpack, for example is way more based on teamwork since you have separate equipment for your partner.
Sorry to say but I don't like it at all. Charge immunity sounds like aggro godmode. Syringes like DA being a gadget could be alright but the problem is CT has gadget slots, you can't change back and forth mid-game meaning you're losing gadgets.
Quote from: Overstatement on December 04, 2007, 01:18:12 AM
No offense to this idea but why can't we start thinking of gadgets that help stealth and intelligence instead of surviving interactions with the merc and teamwork (teamwork is great, a gadget based mostly around teamwork isn't IMO).
QFT
It shouldn't take the health pack's ability to heal poison away. But it should heal someone about 3/4 of the way and you get 4 or 5 of them.
Hey if no one likes it no big deal, was just thought.
my thoughts were it would promote teamwork, make poison mines a bit more effective and NOT create an aggro godmode because you still take damage/get knocked backwards by a charge making it impossible to just run up and neck. My thinking is that were I to use it I would probably use at as a tool while guarding my partner as he hacked. Watch for the merc from cover, inject timing it for maximum up time in the encounter then ambush him to slow him down. Not really needed but I thought it might make a nice pretty balanced addition to the spy's arsenal. With knockback still happening I don't imagine it would make it easier to get a neck but rather give you maybe 2 shots at it instead of one or just make a good escape tool. Injection time would force the usage to be more strategic and avoid just popping it in the middle of an encounter. You would also have to decide if it should it be saved for poison mines. You would no doubt see them more as they would be more useful if a healthbox can't cure it.
Anyhow, like I said, just a thought :)
It could work, but taking away the ability to heal poison at a healthbox would just make the gadget too essential.
Quote from: Spekkio on December 04, 2007, 03:57:12 AM
It could work, but taking away the ability to heal poison at a healthbox would just make the gadget too essential.
Yeah suppose it would have to become a staple which would mean we would have to create an extra slot. I suppose the antidote side would be best left off and it just be adrenaline.
What about an adrenaline shot that give spies extra speed or something for a short while? Or a morphine ( I think that's how you spell it ) shot that makes bullet wounds hurt a little less everytime you are shot for a short while.
What about that? That could be great for gameplay!
Quote from: Overstatement on December 04, 2007, 01:18:12 AM
No offense to this idea but why can't we start thinking of gadgets that help stealth and intelligence instead of surviving interactions with the merc and teamwork (teamwork is great, a gadget based mostly around teamwork isn't IMO).
Exactly, but our problem is that no one has given any nice idea for a gadget since the beginning of creation. I think new gadgets would be totally great and they could add something new to the game but hell, there are no ideas.
there's no need to boost aggro besides making flash bangs reliable; spies move already faster than mercs.
Quote from: Gawain on December 04, 2007, 03:23:53 PM
there's no need to boost aggro besides making flash bangs reliable; spies move already faster than mercs.
Yeah but I thought they would work better for escaping anyways.
Quote from: neth on December 04, 2007, 12:02:00 PM
Exactly, but our problem is that no one has given any nice idea for a gadget since the beginning of creation. I think new gadgets would be totally great and they could add something new to the game but hell, there are no ideas.
There are plenty of ideas but most of them aren't thought through enough and just get bounced back. I'm sure everyone agreed they wanted the OCP to be a selectable alternative to the sticky shocker. It works like in CT coop where it disables a single electronic device without a security failure until you drain your battery or holster the OCP. A single OCP on its own isn't going to defeat laser tripwires and wont let you get very far past things like motion sensors since as soon as you holster your gun or run out of energy it turns back on. However if like in coop your partner OCPs while you run you can get one or both spies past alot of defences that you can't in CT.
now that's a good gadget idea: how about a device that needs the ss to be pulled out and aimed at passive security to disable it without a security breach alert? it could also sabotage the merc's vision modes (so that mt doesn't detect spies in motion and emf no cams/spies using electical devices) and hack merc's communications etc. it would be balanced because it requires teamwork and one spy is quite immobile while helping his teammate with it. heck, it could also work through walls to get past laser mines/traps etc. would make perfect sense with chaff no longer working through walls.
^ sounds good. Except why would anyone bring chaff anymore?
Let's discuss that and the holo pod idea that I am sure most of you know what it is. Basically, you put down a little projector about mine size on the ground, and the projector emits a hologram of a spy running. The hologram would go through walls and such and so a merc could tell it is fake, but at first glance he'll run after it probably.
It could be used for stealth. You could use it to distract mercs and infiltrate elsewhere.
Quote from: Gawain on December 04, 2007, 05:58:44 PM
now that's a good gadget idea: how about a device that needs the ss to be pulled out and aimed at passive security to disable it without a security breach alert? it could also sabotage the merc's vision modes (so that mt doesn't detect spies in motion and emf no cams/spies using electical devices) and hack merc's communications etc. it would be balanced because it requires teamwork and one spy is quite immobile while helping his teammate with it. heck, it could also work through walls to get past laser mines/traps etc. would make perfect sense with chaff no longer working through walls.
I thought that functions like this will be added later along with spy glove. I said few things before and I guess that frvge was one of ppl who also thought about it.
Glove would allow to hack remotely, hack defence silently, hack mercs communications, make their hud go insane for some time and break windows, lights. You say - why should we take ss if you can hack everything? - cause hacking always takes time so if someone likes fast-paced gameplay he wont be satisfied in it. It would be a next step in differing stealth and aggro.
You want to play aggro ? take ss so you can e.g. taz mercs or launch nades.
You want to play stealthy ? take the glove. It could also have other additions like better camo battery (or even better camo) The only problem i see here is no possibility to launch nades but then spies could have an option to set a nade trap. You put a spy nade on the ground or wall and when merc is coming you blow it up. That would force people to plan their moves and develop stealthy technics. Glove could also include HBS and you could be able to shoot snares bullets and cams at med. range (lower than ss).
If a player wants to connect functionality of glove and ss perhaps he could take OCP as an add for ss which would include some effects of glove.
I hope this will be added but afaik its not on priority list.
PS. Is the word "glove" correct here ?
Any ideas liek a remote hacking glove will be thought about in PS version 2. That is, if we ever get around on finishing the first one :p
adding a gadget that fools the mercs vision modes and helps to bypass security without security alert (but more time consuming and you need your mate for lasers etc) should allow for totally new teamplay possibilities. imagine one spy sabotaging the mercs vision unnoticed and the other one sneaking past with camo etc.
noone good would use this glove because you need to SS the merc in lots of situations especially to escape or to cover from distance.
Quote from: Gawain on December 04, 2007, 05:58:44 PM
now that's a good gadget idea: how about a device that needs the ss to be pulled out and aimed at passive security to disable it without a security breach alert? it could also sabotage the merc's vision modes (so that mt doesn't detect spies in motion and emf no cams/spies using electical devices) and hack merc's communications etc. it would be balanced because it requires teamwork and one spy is quite immobile while helping his teammate with it. heck, it could also work through walls to get past laser mines/traps etc. would make perfect sense with chaff no longer working through walls.
While the idea seems kinda cool, The problem is that there's already too many incentives to stick together. We really don't need to reward spies staying together anymore than we already do.
I'd prefer more river mall style teamwork, where one spy is hacking the fans in a different room, and another spy is actually sneaking in, or something like that. So one spy might cut power to the lights while another one goes for the objective. The mercs now have the option of either going out and resetting the power or standing guard. The key is for the supplementary hacks to be somewhat out of position for the merc, so he has to go out of his way to reset them. Also having stuff like the button on missile strike that one spy has to hold down would be cool too. Though instead of opening an arbitrary door, ti could do something cool like turn cameras/lasers off (without a sec fail message) while the spy holds down the button.
Quote from: frvge on December 04, 2007, 06:46:09 PM
Any ideas liek a remote hacking glove will be thought about in PS version 2. That is, if we ever get around on finishing the first one :p
you mean the PS v. 1.X or PS 2 ?
-
Quote from: Gawain on December 04, 2007, 07:38:52 PM
noone good would use this glove because you need to SS the merc in lots of situations especially to escape or to cover from distance.
Not really. As I said you could use cams, nade traps and of course you could count on your mate if he took ss. There are hundreds ways of escaping.
Funny. By saying "no one good would use" you mean only yourself or all good players ? Gosh, I wish I knew so many people.
Quote from: neth on December 04, 2007, 07:57:27 PM
Quote from: frvge on December 04, 2007, 06:46:09 PM
Any ideas liek a remote hacking glove will be thought about in PS version 2. That is, if we ever get around on finishing the first one :p
you mean the PS v. 1.X or PS 2 ?
-
PS 2.
PS is for the current idea of SAM-gameplay. PS 2 is more 'free'. Remote hacking tools are possible. Heck, flying Rambo Spies with laser eyes are possible.
You guys are going to pull a Ubisoft with PS2 if you change it so much like they did.
Quote from: frvge on December 04, 2007, 08:21:15 PM
Quote from: neth on December 04, 2007, 07:57:27 PM
Quote from: frvge on December 04, 2007, 06:46:09 PM
Any ideas liek a remote hacking glove will be thought about in PS version 2. That is, if we ever get around on finishing the first one :p
you mean the PS v. 1.X or PS 2 ?
-
PS 2.
PS is for the current idea of SAM-gameplay. PS 2 is more 'free'. Remote hacking tools are possible. Heck, flying Rambo Spies with laser eyes are possible.
A glove would be a great add. Its a pity no one sees it and that you want to stick to the CT completely without making a step forward.
Quote from: Papa Skull on December 04, 2007, 08:39:52 PM
You guys are going to pull a Ubisoft with PS2 if you change it so much like they did.
Ha. We're not THAT stupid.
Quote from: neth on December 04, 2007, 09:05:58 PM
A glove would be a great add. Its a pity no one sees it and that you want to stick to the CT completely without making a step forward.
stuff like making camo a balanced gadget, creating a competitive environment (no random shit or unbalanced maps) etc will be making a thousand steps forward. i bet you don't know half of the possible strategies in scct, so plz stfu abour taking svm to the next level etc. i can't stand this fancy next-gen blablablub from people that don't know scct that well.
Quote from: frvge on December 04, 2007, 09:56:22 PM
Quote from: Papa Skull on December 04, 2007, 08:39:52 PM
You guys are going to pull a Ubisoft with PS2 if you change it so much like they did.
Ha. We're not THAT stupid.
*Cough*Frvge*Cough*is*Cough* ::)
omg kickbanzorz.
Quote from: Gawain on December 04, 2007, 10:03:57 PM
i bet you don't know half of the possible strategies in scct, so plz stfu abour taking svm to the next level etc. i can't stand this fancy next-gen blablablub from people that don't know scct that well.
Here we go, my favourite Gawain's Pro Attitude. You judge with having actually no clue whats my knowledge about this game. Go learn logic basics cause now you fail creating wrong conclusions with false assumptions.
Oh and BTW, each time I see yours "stfu" on this forum with no support of constructive ideas i smile thinking how big cocky moron you are. its even sad.
I like the scrambler idea. Promotes a lot of teamwork.
Quote from: frvge on December 04, 2007, 09:56:22 PM
Quote from: Papa Skull on December 04, 2007, 08:39:52 PM
You guys are going to pull a Ubisoft with PS2 if you change it so much like they did.
Ha. We're not THAT stupid.
hah, we dont even have a PS1 to mess up.
neth, you got about 100h ct in your xfire profile, and you told me personally that you are rather mid skilled / play on a casual basis. scct has way more depth to offer than a mid skilled players knows of
Quote from: Gawain on December 05, 2007, 02:51:55 PM
neth, you got about 100h ct in your xfire profile, and you told me personally that you are rather mid skilled / play on a casual basis. scct has way more depth to offer than a mid skilled players knows of
1. I mostly played with xfire off. What is more since year xfire does not detect my scct when its launched so hours are not counted.
2. yes, my skill is somewhere near mid but how the hell the fact that you mastered PLAYING the game has something to do with KNOWLEDGE about the game. I know the game as well as you do or even better and theres no connection between skill and knowledge here. I know how good people play, I know how this game works cause ive been close to it since early PT.
3. Yes, im casual player now playing only for fun because of lack of time, but again it has nothing to do with how well I know this game.
4. wow, mysterious depth, could someone please enlighten me, cause I dont see depth in game which I play for years..damn
neth, one example just for you: chess. knowing the rules (=game mechanics) isn't that hard, but mastering the game is. in order to grasp it's depth, you gotta play and analyze tons of games etc.
i'm well aware that ct is not that similar to the king of the board games (besides othello imo), but it's complex in another way.
At some point the difference is only in playing - being good at it but not in knowledge.
Gawain I think you are mistaken. Yes, I know the more you play the more you understand about the game. But there are people who are naturally talented at Chess and games like splinter cell because they understand the concepts and rules.
getting anywhere good in chess is hard work just like in every other sport. i also don't think that you or neth are that talented in ct.
Why dont you create section: pro only, in which only you will be able to type ? pure buffoonery
Gawain, stop saying to everybody that they're not skilled enough or don't have enough experience, please. :/
Quote from: Gawain on December 06, 2007, 12:26:17 AM
getting anywhere good in chess is hard work just like in every other sport. i also don't think that you or neth are that talented in ct.
Ha, you are too funny. Like I've said before: Come play me on console, you'll get raped. I'll play you on PC, I'll get raped. What you are supposed to say is this: Papa Skull you suck at PC SvM. Then I'll say this: Gawain, you suck at Console SvM. Then we'll both laugh and have a jolly good time. Next time you say something about your PC Elitist SvM bullshit I'll just laugh. Sure, you've got more capabilities on PC, but does that mean that you have more knowledge about the basics of SvM? No, not really.
And Gawain, I thought that you have said in other topics that time played doesn't equal skill level? You are kind of contradicting yourself.
omg get a brain before flaming me. i wrote that i don't think you are that talented (which is very very rare) because of this:
Quote from: Papa Skull on December 05, 2007, 05:46:26 PM
Gawain I think you are mistaken. Yes, I know the more you play the more you understand about the game. But there are people who are naturally talented at Chess and games like splinter cell because they understand the concepts and rules.
i'm also not saying that i'm talented, there are plenty of players out there that improved in less time.
Quote from: Papa Skull on December 06, 2007, 04:31:12 AM
And Gawain, I thought that you have said in other topics that time played doesn't equal skill level? You are kind of contradicting yourself.
a 1000h player will rape a 100h player, but it's hard to tell if a 400h or 600h player is better.
the only way i'm still "bitching" is that you always want to change stuff that isn't broken or add new gadgets while the old ones aren't balanced yet.
I don't think that WE have to worry about them being balanced. Why? The devs are probably better than both of us and they know what could benefit the game possibly more than both of us.
Gawain, if you tell someone that they aren't talented then that is obviously implying that you are saying that you are talented. Get a brain.
no it isn't for a reasoner. sometimes i forgot that most people don't think that logically...
YES it is.
That is like me saying that you are gay. THAT IMPLIES THAT I AM NOT GAY OTHERWISE I WOULDN'T BE CALLING YOU GAY! Or: Gawain, you are an idiot. Don't you think that should imply that I am not an idiot but you are?
Simple logic.
And if you aren't talented then who the fuck are you to say we aren't?
I don't understand where people like you are getting their logic these days. Probably at a clearance sale from the dollar store.
dude you are stupid. if you think you're talented, proove it. from the bullshit you are posting, i don't think so. your aquarius strat was really ridiculous, and i'm still waiting for the video you promised to laugh my ass of.
why do i have to be talented to say that you aren't?? i got good in ct at a pretty average improvement rate, but i clearly got a way better understanding of the gameplay than you do.
Quote from: Gawain on December 07, 2007, 03:00:27 PM
dude you are stupid. if you think you're talented, proove it. from the bullshit you are posting, i don't think so. your aquarius strat was really ridiculous, and i'm still waiting for the video you promised to laugh my ass of.
why do i have to be talented to say that you aren't?? i got good in ct at a pretty average improvement rate, but i clearly got a way better understanding of the gameplay than you do.
THAT RIGHT THERE!! That is implying that YOU aren't stupid, but I am. Get a fucking brain.
1. That was one of my strategies.
2. I don't have a capture card anymore.
3. Clearly? Bullshit. All you do is want to nerf everything, deny good ideas that could work, and SAY OMFG WAIT UNTIL IT"S ALL FINISHED!! Yet you still post ideas, stfu gawain, EVERYONE is tired of it.
*clears throat* AHUM to both sides *walks off*
i don't want to nerf, i want to balance things out. some stuff needs a boost, and some stuff a nerf.
you don't get logic, do you? i didn't say that im clever and you are stupid, just that you are stupid. but if it makes you happy, yes i think i got more brainpower than you.
LOGIC MY FUCKING ASS!! WTF is wrong with you dude? Seriously! Did you get dropped on your head when you were younger or what? I'm tired of your garbage insults and your mindset that YOU and ONLY YOU know what is best or what could work for PS. Fucking sick of it.
IT DOES imply that you aren't what you call me. This is like if a Homosexual tries to diss somoene for being gay! And then saying that it doesn't apply to him. Because you are trying to diss us for being stupid, you try to say that you aren't. Otherwise, you have NO right to call us stupid or untalented because a homosexual has NO right to diss someone for being gay!
You both are nagging women right now. Just an FYI.
Yeah, but remember - where two fight, a third wins.
Quote from: Kok4f4n on December 07, 2007, 10:35:21 PM
Yeah, but remember - where two fight, a third wins.
Which would be ME.
----------------------------
Last time: Use arguments and stay on-topic. I'd hate to temporarily lock a thread.
Sooo... About that Adrenaline... :-\
Quote from: B1nArY_001 on December 07, 2007, 11:22:45 PM
Sooo... About that Adrenaline... :-\
there's no need to boost the spy's agility etc any more. just compare the speed of the spy to the speed of the merc and see which great distance you can run while the merc is tazed.
the idea of a gadget for healing or untrapping the merc is interesting, but spekkio made a poll about that on sclamers and the majority voted for the way it is now.
Quote from: Gawain on December 07, 2007, 11:33:14 PM
Quote from: B1nArY_001 on December 07, 2007, 11:22:45 PM
Sooo... About that Adrenaline... :-\
there's no need to boost the spy's agility etc any more. just compare the speed of the spy to the speed of the merc and see which great distance you can run while the merc is tazed.
the idea of a gadget for healing or untrapping the merc is interesting, but spekkio made a poll about that on sclamers and the majority voted for the way it is now.
Yeah? Well in MY opinion, YOUR opinion sucks! :D
now that's a good coherent argumentation ;D
Isn't it already in CT?
Sometimes i noticed that when the spy is hit, he runs a bit faster than normally.
Probably just buggy animations.
Buggy animations don't explain why it's easier to get to tech via pir jump just after you were hit...
Buggy forcefields? Actually, i've noticed that too but it looks like buggy animations. Not sure what it is but there is definately a look of acceleration.
The buggy tech jumps are just random.