Another thing that has not been discussed yet if i remember correctly.
I almost puke everytime I die because people tell their mates via 3rd party VoiP programs where you went, just after you broke their neck or cammed them. I still consider that cheating.
With UT3, a fairly good built-in VoiP system should be no problem. Would there be any way to ban 3rd party services?
No, there is no way to ban 3rd party VOIP services.
SCCT has a fairly good built-in VOIP system and people still use 3rd party programs.
why do you want to boost neckbreaks etc even more???
Quote from: Gawain on December 13, 2007, 04:11:02 PM
why do you want to boost neckbreaks etc even more???
It's not about that, it's about preventing "talk while dead" hacks, which is effectively what a 3rd party VoIP program does.
talking while dead isn't that much of an advantage but removing this ability is definitely a boost for necks. anyways, the location of the grab is pretty obvious most times and you can't tell where the spy that grabbed you is going, you can only tell where his partner is going if you see him.
Explain to me again how you can see where someone is running while your screen is black and counting down from 3?
Quote from: Gawain on December 13, 2007, 05:10:13 PM
talking while dead isn't that much of an advantage but removing this ability is definitely a boost for necks.
But it's not even part of the game. If you guys were saying "you should be able to talk while dead", then let everyone do it. Don't make people need a VoIP program (hack) to do it. It's pretty much an unfair advantage that only exists for established teams.
so the conclusion of this is to allow ingame voip while dead.
Quote from: Gawain on December 13, 2007, 05:49:44 PM
so the conclusion of this is to allow ingame voip while dead.
It's a nerf to stealth doing it that way, but if people are going to cheat with 3rd party VoIP anyway, it may be better off just allowing everyone to do it to keep the playing field even.
After your neck is broken, there is a count down before you revive, but the screen is looking at your dead body, and not black. With third party voice, you can tell your mate where the spy is headed immediately rather than waiting to respawn. Everyone does that.
Quote from: Daybreak on December 13, 2007, 06:12:12 PM
After your neck is broken, there is a count down before you revive, but the screen is looking at your dead body, and not black. With third party voice, you can tell your mate where the spy is headed immediately rather than waiting to respawn. Everyone does that.
Though, thats CT, this is PS ;D
Anyway, we can fix that by spectating you with your teammate in the exact same view as he is (so no free cam). Think of the player following in Call of Duty, Medal of Honor whatever.
So, you will see the exact same thing as your teammate does (think of the shared Optic Cable view in CT Coop).
If both are dead, well, we can eather make both screens black or make them view the level from a static point (again, no free cam).
I hope you are kidding Spekkio and gawain. It is an advantage. You may have seen where someone has gone after you have died or been killed by him and so you can tell him while you are dead. You can tell him where you died, where he went after he killed you, and if he should go there or not. There isn't a real good way to fix this but something that could fix this is limiting the camera view while dead and after you have just died.
by the time the teammate usually arrives the spy can have gone in lots of different places, not to forget that your mate has to leave his position and certainly can't go hunting for the stealth spy. in most situations, it's best to hack the next objective after a grab and not to go hiding somewhere...
Obviously. But the merc can see where spies go after they kill them. Usually, they head towards the nearest objective. So, the merc that saw them can tell the other merc that the spies are going to a certain point and the merc can go stop them.
QuoteI hope you are kidding Spekkio and gawain. It is an advantage.
Huh? When did I say it wasn't? Part of the OP's rant was that you can tell your teammate where someone is headed while you are cammed. How is that possible if you can't see?
I hope that you guys also realize that teamspeak has a delay, so saying something like "there's a spy behind you turn around!" will arrive too late to actually be helpful. You can literally type an xfire message just as quickly. Why aren't you guys trying to ban xfire?
I think Lennard's solution of not giving a 3rd person camera is good, and I do think that people should play using the game's VOIP instead of a third party VOIP. However, in the end I don't think it's as critical as some of you are making it out to be.
IMO there should be a possibility to instantly break a neck - now theres a 0,3 sec before you can do that and that means merc usually manages to send a help msg. As soon as the neck is broken merc's screen goes black and then you move to your mate's perspective but without an option to change visions.
When you get KO your screen blurs but doesnt go black so you can see some things in front of you when you fall down.
Quote from: Spekkio on December 13, 2007, 05:17:47 PM
Explain to me again how you can see where someone is running while your screen is black and counting down from 3?
I'm not saying you can see it all the time, but the going-down animation is pretty slow at times, so you could be able to see what the spy heads for.
It is pretty critical. If you see that a spy is waiting for your teammate to come into a door but you can tell him that he is around the corner he'll know and he won't be killed.
Quote from: Gawain on December 13, 2007, 04:11:02 PM
why do you want to boost neckbreaks etc even more???
It's got nothing to do with boosting anything, it's just a matter of fairness.
I'm also going to make the point that a 3rd person program makes your game run slower. At the same time, for all you fucks that do this, WHEN YOU HOST AND RUN TS IT MAKES THE FUCKIN SERVER LAG. Sorry for the f-bombs, but its ridiculous to tell me I'm lagging when you're the POS running another program, that is cheating imo. The games VOIP is fine. If you aren't retarded, it works....fine.
Its unfortunate that there isn't a way to eliminate that, but what are you gonna do?
afaik teamspeak is programmed so that it can't make you lag.
In CT there is a split second where you can still talk and all that is needed is to quickly say which way someone is headed E.G "MONO!" and that's it. You can hear the cam and you have a moment before you are sleeping. A good team will constantly keep the other player updated on position and where they are headed, once communication is lost the other merc or spy will have a real good idea where the enemy is based on the last location cited by their partner. The people you assume are using third party programs 9 out of 10 times probably are not.
You can't prevent 3rd part VIOP and even if a way to do so were worked out then people who are determined to cheat will just use a messenger program. They will always find a way. If they suck that bad and are determined to try and get an edge... Well then let them. They obviously need it.
Quote from: Gawain on December 13, 2007, 11:36:54 PM
afaik teamspeak is programmed so that it can't make you lag.
It can. Even if you drop to the minimum bandwidth it will still cause some lag if you are the one hosting the server.
Ventrillo on the other hand has its' own servers.
Quote from: LennardF1989 on December 13, 2007, 06:15:34 PM
Quote from: Daybreak on December 13, 2007, 06:12:12 PM
After your neck is broken, there is a count down before you revive, but the screen is looking at your dead body, and not black. With third party voice, you can tell your mate where the spy is headed immediately rather than waiting to respawn. Everyone does that.
Though, thats CT, this is PS ;D
Anyway, we can fix that by spectating you with your teammate in the exact same view as he is (so no free cam). Think of the player following in Call of Duty, Medal of Honor whatever.
So, you will see the exact same thing as your teammate does (think of the shared Optic Cable view in CT Coop).
If both are dead, well, we can eather make both screens black or make them view the level from a static point (again, no free cam).
Oh! or like in Call of duty... the last 10 or so sec of ur life from the point of view of ur killer
it would help to see one's mistake easier like in scda, but i don't think it fits in the athmosphere. i'd say just let the screen become black a little bit quicker if you still think it's a problem (which it obviously isn't).
Quote from: Test-Subject on December 14, 2007, 02:49:24 AM
Quote from: LennardF1989 on December 13, 2007, 06:15:34 PM
Quote from: Daybreak on December 13, 2007, 06:12:12 PM
After your neck is broken, there is a count down before you revive, but the screen is looking at your dead body, and not black. With third party voice, you can tell your mate where the spy is headed immediately rather than waiting to respawn. Everyone does that.
Though, thats CT, this is PS ;D
Anyway, we can fix that by spectating you with your teammate in the exact same view as he is (so no free cam). Think of the player following in Call of Duty, Medal of Honor whatever.
So, you will see the exact same thing as your teammate does (think of the shared Optic Cable view in CT Coop).
If both are dead, well, we can eather make both screens black or make them view the level from a static point (again, no free cam).
Oh! or like in Call of duty... the last 10 or so sec of ur life from the point of view of ur killer
Bad idea, it could enable you to see if the spy who killed you were alone, where his partner is...
You could always add a PHAT static noise for his buddy when the merc gets necked/jumped whatever if you REALLY didn't want 3rd party VoIP to be used.
omg stop with the stop voip etc hexor ideas...
omg stop with the noob +1 posts.
Everything you post is negative or positive at first but then just to make sure no one thinks you might actually be a normal decent person you just add some bullshit at the end. Well done.
These are ideas and if you don't like them suggest somthing else, it's called constructive critisism, you're supposed to suggest improvments to others ideas not just "that sucks" to 90% of them.
It's your decision how you want to behave but on a public discussion forum your constant bashing is totally inappropriate.
Quote from: B1nArY_001 on December 14, 2007, 02:22:39 AM
The people you assume are using third party programs 9 out of 10 times probably are not.
You can easily tell: if they use a 3rd party service, they got the ingame one turned off. Getting killed because of such "cheating" doesnt happen too often, but it happens, and you can usually tell if it was fair or not.
Don't act like I don't know what I'm talking about. duh
Quote from: Desolator2k on December 14, 2007, 02:17:34 PM
omg stop with the noob +1 posts.
Everything you post is negative or positive at first but then just to make sure no one thinks you might actually be a normal decent person you just add some bullshit at the end. Well done.
These are ideas and if you don't like them suggest somthing else, it's called constructive critisism, you're supposed to suggest improvments to others ideas not just "that sucks" to 90% of them.
It's your decision how you want to behave but on a public discussion forum your constant bashing is totally inappropriate.
Thanks Desolator!
i bash 90% of the ideas because there is no need to change something that is perfectly working. you won't see me bash ideas good for the gameplay.
suggestion ridiculous stuff to prohibit using ingame messaging or voip is not what i would call constructive...
no you can't tell because they can use ingame team chat, too.
Quote from: Gawain on December 14, 2007, 03:09:52 PM
suggestion ridiculous stuff to prohibit using ingame messaging or voip is not what i would call constructive...
Prohibit ingame messaging? Who lost a word about that? Speaking of which, I didn't suggest anything, I just asked.
Quote from: Gawain on December 14, 2007, 03:09:52 PM
no you can't tell because they can use ingame team chat, too.
Using teamspeak/ventrillo/skype/..
and CTs ingame speech-program will make your partner hear everything twice. At least thats what I thought was the reason for the mostly german teams to have ingame-voice turned off.
Quote from: Cyntrox on December 14, 2007, 01:08:26 PM
Quote from: Test-Subject on December 14, 2007, 02:49:24 AM
Quote from: LennardF1989 on December 13, 2007, 06:15:34 PM
Quote from: Daybreak on December 13, 2007, 06:12:12 PM
After your neck is broken, there is a count down before you revive, but the screen is looking at your dead body, and not black. With third party voice, you can tell your mate where the spy is headed immediately rather than waiting to respawn. Everyone does that.
Though, thats CT, this is PS ;D
Anyway, we can fix that by spectating you with your teammate in the exact same view as he is (so no free cam). Think of the player following in Call of Duty, Medal of Honor whatever.
So, you will see the exact same thing as your teammate does (think of the shared Optic Cable view in CT Coop).
If both are dead, well, we can eather make both screens black or make them view the level from a static point (again, no free cam).
Oh! or like in Call of duty... the last 10 or so sec of ur life from the point of view of ur killer
Bad idea, it could enable you to see if the spy who killed you were alone, where his partner is...
That's the KillCam, but unfortunatly it's not possible todo with UT3. Though, it would be rather boring to look at. I think it's better todo what I sad above, you just get the same view as your teammate (1st person view or 3rd when spy, but the camera remains static, so you cant move around on your own)
Yeah .. that'd be the best solution, I hope that gets into the game!
I agree. You should also see the exact same vision mode (and camera angle, for spies) as the person you're spectating.
All this because a few people use external talk programs, for ten seconds per death (in a 10 minute match), to have an extra set of eyes where the first set of eyes covered 95% of what's going on? Seems a little extreme and pretty off-topic to the situation Daybreak originally illustrated.
Quote from: Papa Skull on December 13, 2007, 07:42:04 PM
Obviously. But the merc can see where spies go after they kill them. Usually, they head towards the nearest objective. So, the merc that saw them can tell the other merc that the spies are going to a certain point and the merc can go stop them.
1)it's obvious where the spy goes (nearest objective; you wrote that, too)
2)the other merc will almost never be able to stop him/them from going there, and the information that he/they are going there is redundant. the only interesting thing is if it were 2 spies and one is covering.
i think you make a way too big fuss about teamspeak or xfire.
Sometimes the other merc doesn't know where his teammate died exactly and what the nearest objective was.
THink about this: WHat if one merc lost all of his lives and so he just watched his back and switched through visions? What if he just saw something that the merc he was spectating didn't catch? He would tell him through 3rd party chat or whatever.
Quote from: Gawain on December 14, 2007, 09:37:00 PM
Quote from: Papa Skull on December 13, 2007, 07:42:04 PM
Obviously. But the merc can see where spies go after they kill them. Usually, they head towards the nearest objective. So, the merc that saw them can tell the other merc that the spies are going to a certain point and the merc can go stop them.
1)it's obvious where the spy goes (nearest objective; you wrote that, too)
2)the other merc will almost never be able to stop him/them from going there, and the information that he/they are going there is redundant. the only interesting thing is if it were 2 spies and one is covering.
i think you make a way too big fuss about teamspeak or xfire.
Teamspeak is one of the worst things that happened to gaming. Especially in the case of Chaos Theory. There is nothing you can do to prevent this in PS, which is a shame. Makes it easier for me to not play with people that actually do use it, which is fuckin lame btw.
it's quite possible to play without voip at all (illusion got no mic atm). i don't think you need mic that much but it adds a social component just like no smurfing would do.
Quote from: Westfall-US on December 14, 2007, 11:45:23 PM
Quote from: Gawain on December 14, 2007, 09:37:00 PM
Quote from: Papa Skull on December 13, 2007, 07:42:04 PM
Obviously. But the merc can see where spies go after they kill them. Usually, they head towards the nearest objective. So, the merc that saw them can tell the other merc that the spies are going to a certain point and the merc can go stop them.
1)it's obvious where the spy goes (nearest objective; you wrote that, too)
2)the other merc will almost never be able to stop him/them from going there, and the information that he/they are going there is redundant. the only interesting thing is if it were 2 spies and one is covering.
i think you make a way too big fuss about teamspeak or xfire.
Teamspeak is one of the worst things that happened to gaming. Especially in the case of Chaos Theory. There is nothing you can do to prevent this in PS, which is a shame. Makes it easier for me to not play with people that actually do use it, which is fuckin lame btw.
The issue I have with 3rd party VOIP programs in SvM is that part of the game's mechanics involve abilities that allow you to hack your opponent's comms. Using a 3rd party program circumvents the need to be careful with your communication while trapped or bulleted, and disables the other team from gaining intel on you (which is probably an additional reason for the lack of spy trap and spy bullet usage these days).
I don't really think that telling your opponent stuff for 10 seconds while in death cam is that big of a deal, particularly with a delay. But I do think that circumventing the prospect of having your communication hacked detracts from the game. On the other hand, that whole mechanic goes out the window when the opposing teams speak different languages anyway so yea...
if you're using mic or teamchat while trapped it should be audible/visible if you are using ingame voip or not. but it's not that balanced for competitive play because of different languages. english people would have the biggest disadvantage.
it could get kinda funny if players choose codenames for areas and actions:
"i'm in class cover me"="i like bananas get me some" lolz
Well, back when there were more than 5 people on this side of the pond playing the game, we had to do just that.
Yeah, and now when i play with ppl from poland and my mate we have to use codenames - eVo is a TS only clan =/
Quote from: Kok4f4n on December 15, 2007, 04:39:20 PM
Yeah, and now when i play with ppl from poland and my mate we have to use codenames - eVo is a TS only clan =/
Thanks for that. Add to the list of ppl not to play with b/c not only do they contain the lag of being from euro, but they're running a 3rd party program, which makes things so much better. And they say I lag.
G4X
Easy way to solve this is to make sure that you cannot disable your own mic in game. This way you always transmit communications. If you want to use TS, have your partner lower his voice receive volume.
Good idea to stop people doing this. Make players have to say somthing to open doors (I dont mean voice recognition, just a sound) once dats detected it should open.
This probs isnt possible in UT so :(
Plus people without mics would be locked in the spawn forever :P
Cant we detect if they have a mic plugged in and if so then the door doesnt open until it detects input?
I dont like the idea but there was a possiblity in ut2004 to give bots orders using mic.
Quote from: Tidenburg on December 15, 2007, 08:38:54 PM
Good idea to stop people doing this. Make players have to say somthing to open doors (I dont mean voice recognition, just a sound) once dats detected it should open.
This probs isnt possible in UT so :(
Plus people without mics would be locked in the spawn forever :P
Cant we detect if they have a mic plugged in and if so then the door doesnt open until it detects input?
I don't like the idea... I pretty much always have a mic connected, but I'm not always comfortable speaking, there may for example be people around. And many new laptops comes with built-in mics so you can't disconnect them.