I decided to make a topic about it, cause now this vision is used hardly ever. IMO it is because people know maps well and they dont need to take additional risk to get detected. Perhaps if we added new functions to nv it could become used much more often.
I know there were a few ideas but it wasnt anything discussed widely.
My first proposition is to add to nv an ability to detect cams area of detection.
Nerf NV but make it so that the spy doesn't show up on emf.
Quote from: Kok4f4n on December 18, 2007, 10:09:12 PM
Nerf NV but make it so that the spy doesn't show up on emf.
Well if we have to buff nightvision you could just leave it as it is and make it not show up on EMF at all. Afterall it's what gets alot of new players killed, they turn it on to find their way around and get killed because they're glowing. If any player learns the game mechanics it really isn't a problem and so I really don't see any need to nerf or buff nightvision. It's there, it's useful in those darkest of places that even MT NV can't see. It's good for what it does which is let us see into the dark so I'd say just leave it.
huh, i use it plenty o_O
just make the maps darker i guess.
with darker maps and a more realistic quality of thermal vision nv will become more popular. besides, the skill to navigate through a dark area without using visions should be rewarded. i also like the idea of being able to see camera detection cones with nv.
If you make it so that NV can't be seen on EMF, there's no reason NOT to use it - and there should always be a reason not to use something, especially a vision.
make that thermal only pick-up heat... meaning not the wall so you can't use it as nv + make the map darker
I agree. Themal picked out the map completly. Why did you need night vision? Everything could be seen on thermal and better.
Thermal should only pick up heat, and heat ONLY. No map walls or anything. Thermal should detect spy traps, mines, lasers, fired grenades and flares, mercenaries, other spies, cameras, sticky cams, snares, spy bullets and maybe steam if it is incorporated somehow.
Night vision should be very sensitive to light. And with darker maps NV would be used more often. If you are close to a light source with NV it should be much brighter. I also like Gawain's idea, CT single player, where you see camera detection cones.
For the record if you ever actually threw a flash bang on the ground with Night Vision Goggles on you would go blind for life. I know this is a game but it should be a little more sensitive to light atleast.
Quote from: Papa Skull on December 19, 2007, 02:12:30 AM
For the record if you ever actually threw a flash bang on the ground with Night Vision Goggles on you would go blind for life. I know this is a game but it should be a little more sensitive to light atleast.
Be funny if flares acted as merc flashbangs against spies with NV on.
Also I'm pretty sure the splinter cell NV doesn't blind you because it's a digital screen that relays the results of your vision type. It's how the goggles can rapidly change from NV to thermal (or EMF in SP). So it'd no more blind you than it would looking through a NV camera that got pointed at the sun. You'd see a big block of light, but you can program the screen to compensate and not make it blinding.
I'm partial with the idea of having night vision pick of camera detection cones, definitely something to play test. But the problem above having the detection cone displayed is that it will it easier for spies to get around undetected. The reason why SvM is such a hard and rewarding game is that it takes time and practice to master levels. Giving the camera detection cone lessens the rewarding factor involved in the game. Not a huge deal, but I like the fact that good spies know exactly how to navigate level based on experience.
Thermal is fine as it is right now because the player needs to at least know where he's going. No need to nerf or buff thermal in any sense.
The fact that you can see heat would help you see the edges of walls anyways. Like if you could only see half of a light you would know that there is a wall right in front of it blocking your view. So, you could still navigate if walls didn't show up, atleast somewhat. And thermal isn't for navigating, that is NV's job right? Thermal is for locating (mercs, spies, mines, traps etc)
why not give them (dare I say) EMF. Big change but it does what you want.
I use it plenty.
Quote from: Papa Skull on December 19, 2007, 02:30:24 AM
And thermal isn't for navigating (mercs, spies, mines, traps etc)
But thermal is also used for navigating in a smoke... for what you need some kind wall or some thing...
As multiple people are saying in this thread to make thermal "realistic," I'll provide photos of what real thermal looks like:
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F6%2F60%2FWiki_ostrich.jpg&hash=024b177191e20e850c0654c356a8ac462f7e1a4b)
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Ff%2Ff2%2FPassivhaus_thermogram_gedaemmt_ungedaemmt.png&hash=d3a6cf2bde51baab4f512afcf5b86d4b96e4c7e1)
I can make out those trees and buildings perfectly. Guys, stop trying to nerf thermal to try and make night vision more useful, that's not the way to go.
As for Papa, your point is very mute. Whoever said thermal wasn't for navigating? Yes, it is used to pick out objects but no where does it say "Don't use for navigation! That's night vision's job!" So I guess that means when I'm navigating through a hallway with lasers that I should switch to night vision, right? As it stands night vision is absolutely needed for vents if you don't know the map layout. Not only that, but night vision is great on darker maps like orphanage, especially when lights have been shot out. Besides the camera cone thing (which is iffy and needs testing), night vision is fine.
Quote from: Vega on December 19, 2007, 06:15:11 AM
As multiple people are saying in this thread to make thermal "realistic," I'll provide photos of what real thermal looks like:
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F6%2F60%2FWiki_ostrich.jpg&hash=024b177191e20e850c0654c356a8ac462f7e1a4b)
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Ff%2Ff2%2FPassivhaus_thermogram_gedaemmt_ungedaemmt.png&hash=d3a6cf2bde51baab4f512afcf5b86d4b96e4c7e1)
I can make out those trees and buildings perfectly. Guys, stop trying to nerf thermal to try and make night vision more useful, that's not the way to go.
As for Papa, your point is very mute. Whoever said thermal wasn't for navigating? Yes, it is used to pick out objects but no where does it say "Don't use for navigation! That's night vision's job!" So I guess that means when I'm navigating through a hallway with lasers that I should switch to night vision, right? As it stands night vision is absolutely needed for vents if you don't know the map layout. Not only that, but night vision is great on darker maps like orphanage, especially when lights have been shot out. Besides the camera cone thing (which is iffy and needs testing), night vision is fine.
I share ur opinion that mapper should just make the map dark to fix the problem but let me point out that on the thermal picture you profided you can see the tree because of the contrast of the warm wall... in vents everthing would be the same color..
It is mostly designed for locating object like mines, lasers, and mercs. I guess you can use it for navigation but not nearly as much as NV. NV is for NAVIGATING" through dark areas. Not once have I switched to thermal in a dark area to find my way out. I only use thermal for detecting mines/traps. It's fine the way it is but to balance between NV use and thermal use it could be the difference.
Quote from: Test-Subject on December 19, 2007, 06:41:32 AM
Quote from: Vega on December 19, 2007, 06:15:11 AM
I share ur opinion that mapper should just make the map dark to fix the problem but let me point out that on the thermal picture you profided you can see the tree because of the contrast of the warm wall... in vents everthing would be the same color..
Exactly.
Where did I mention the idea of using thermal in vent? Use common sense, both of you, I even said this earlier;
QuoteAs it stands night vision is absolutely needed for vents if you don't know the map layout.
I provided thermal images to the numerous claims of thermal being "unrealistic in CT." Haha yes, Papa, you use Night Vision in dark areas, like I said. However,
you made the claim that thermal was not used for navigation, and that's simply wrong. Thermal is very easy to navigate, besides a vent (DUH).
What? Thermal for navigating through a map. That's a new one. Yeah, you can navigate with it, but there is no point for using it to navigate. Night vision gets you through dark areas, thermal doesn't, and normal vision you can see walls much better.
Quote from: Papa Skull on December 19, 2007, 07:39:03 AM
What? Thermal for navigating through a map. That's a new one. Yeah, you can navigate with it, but there is no point for using it to navigate. Night vision gets you through dark areas, thermal doesn't, and normal vision you can see walls much better.
This is why everyone calls you a noob...
IMO buffing nv by nerfing thermal is not the way. To give it a use we could add new things to encourage people to use it. Detecting cones was 1st. Perhaps nv could also affect the merc somehow ?
Quote from: Vega on December 19, 2007, 07:43:58 AM
Quote from: Papa Skull on December 19, 2007, 07:39:03 AM
What? Thermal for navigating through a map. That's a new one. Yeah, you can navigate with it, but there is no point for using it to navigate. Night vision gets you through dark areas, thermal doesn't, and normal vision you can see walls much better.
This is why everyone calls you a noob...
wtf dude you are full of shit. When the hell do people say: "hey, I can't really see where I am going, I'm going to turn on thermal vision!" They don't say that, they don't think that, they don't do it. Sure, you CAN navigate with thermal, but what's the point of using to actually navigate? You show up on EMF and you can't see some things that you normally would be able to. If you don't know where the lasers are then that's a matter of learning the map. I only use thermal for finding mines and such, not for finding my way.
Ok, this hurts to explain, but you need to realize what navigating means.
navÃ,·iÃ,·gate
to walk or find one's way.
This definition does not say;
to walk or find one's way.....BY USING NIGHT VISION ONLY LOL.
When I say I use thermal to "navigate" an area, it means that I may go from point A to point B with thermal on. Wow, amazing concept there, I know. People say it, people think it, and people do it. ::)
In your first post regarding mine, you said that you can't use thermal for navigating. Get it through your head that I'm saying you can and that I'm not referring to ridiculously dark areas. Come on, I've said it multiple times that "Night vision is good for vents and dark maps like orphanage."
There are many reasons to use thermal for navigation, if you can't figure out any tactical reasons why then that's too bad for you *Hint poison mine/spy trap in greek. In this situation, if you aren't using thermal, you may be able to roll through those lasers, but not that poison mine. That example is when I'm "navigating" with thermal while coming upon lasers. That's a CRAZYYYY idea, whoa! Of course I don't run with thermal on all the time. Use some discretion, just as you say "I use night vision to navigate" you don't hear me saying "LOL WELL MERCS CAN FIND YOU ON EMF, IDIOT."
There are so many examples of using your thermal that it would be a long list. You must die a lot to mines. Deaths caused by mines can be caused by the spy's unawareness to a mine. Using thermal as you run along an area can greatly reduce your chance of getting caught by a mine.
/agree.
There's really nothing you can do about thermal being used more than night vision. Both thermal and night vision give you added ability to see in the dark. One does this perfectly clearly, while the other does it distorted but tells you where hidden traps are. People start using thermal more frequently as they become accustomed to the map because they are able to make their way from A to B (ie: navigate) when looking at distorted color/object quality. They do this because the advantage of seeing passive defenses is more important than looking at the same box you've seen 100x and know is in front of you.
On top of that, there are relatively few areas in SCCT/SCPT that are so dark that you must use a special vision to navigate the area. Most people have their monitor's brightness set too high anyway, which is normal for gaming (if you can see the trees outside in Orphanage clearly, your monitor is set too bright according to the color-correction guide posted by Mr.Mic on SCLamers).
Even if you gave a "cone" to cams, how many people would actually use this feature once they became accustomed to timing the cameras and learning the routes? I know I wouldn't. It's great to have for the newbies to get them accustomed to things, but in the end it's not going to make people use NV any more than they do now.
The only thing that might need adjusting is the fact that thermal vision image quality is too sharp when set to high post render/high resolutions. It's equivelent to MT being too sharp. People don't complain about it, though, because it's generally accepted that the spies are at a disadvantage to begin with.
Oh, and if you want to be technical/"realistic" about it, Night Vision is Thermal Vision.
Quote from: InvisibleMan999 on December 19, 2007, 02:16:24 AM
Be funny if flares acted as merc flashbangs against spies with NV on.
Also I'm pretty sure the splinter cell NV doesn't blind you because it's a digital screen that relays the results of your vision type. It's how the goggles can rapidly change from NV to thermal (or EMF in SP). So it'd no more blind you than it would looking through a NV camera that got pointed at the sun. You'd see a big block of light, but you can program the screen to compensate and not make it blinding.
Make flares merc's flashbangs!!! i want that!!!
Quote from: Vega on December 19, 2007, 08:38:08 AM
Ok, this hurts to explain, but you need to realize what navigating means.
navÃ,·iÃ,·gate
to walk or find one's way.
This definition does not say;
to walk or find one's way.....BY USING NIGHT VISION ONLY LOL.
When I say I use thermal to "navigate" an area, it means that I may go from point A to point B with thermal on. Wow, amazing concept there, I know. People say it, people think it, and people do it. ::)
In your first post regarding mine, you said that you can't use thermal for navigating. Get it through your head that I'm saying you can and that I'm not referring to ridiculously dark areas. Come on, I've said it multiple times that "Night vision is good for vents and dark maps like orphanage."
There are many reasons to use thermal for navigation, if you can't figure out any tactical reasons why then that's too bad for you *Hint poison mine/spy trap in greek. In this situation, if you aren't using thermal, you may be able to roll through those lasers, but not that poison mine. That example is when I'm "navigating" with thermal while coming upon lasers. That's a CRAZYYYY idea, whoa! Of course I don't run with thermal on all the time. Use some discretion, just as you say "I use night vision to navigate" you don't hear me saying "LOL WELL MERCS CAN FIND YOU ON EMF, IDIOT."
There are so many examples of using your thermal that it would be a long list. You must die a lot to mines. Deaths caused by mines can be caused by the spy's unawareness to a mine. Using thermal as you run along an area can greatly reduce your chance of getting caught by a mine.
OK, then you are still wrong. They don't use thermal to navigate, they use their memory of the map to navigate, but since they happen to have thermal on you call it using thermal to navigate. No. In a bright area, what's the point of thermal? Honestly. If you know your way around the map then WHY would you put on thermal, there is NO point. You can see the same and if not better on normal vision and you DO NOT register on EMF. "OH! I can see pefectly fine in this area and I know it by heart, let's just turn on thermal for shits and giggles!" Using it to navigate throughout the map IS NOT using it discretely.
Just because you CAN use it to navigate, doesn't mean that you SHOULD. No point to it other than to help you see through smoke and LOCATE things that are used against you.
And no, I don't run with thermal on all the time. Why? I DO however, flip it on when I suspect that there may be a mine or two around the corner, in front of me, or wherever. If I hear a mine, then I'll flip it on. If I come to an unguarded open area, I may suspect a mine or laser is around, then I'll flip it on for a second or two. When I come to a place that is prone to mines (entrance from blue room to pirate's room) then I'll turn it on for a few seconds, turn it off, and continue with thermal vision off.
Quote from: Papa Skull on December 19, 2007, 05:20:40 PM
OK, then you are still wrong. They don't use thermal to navigate, they use their memory of the map to navigate, but since they happen to have thermal on you call it using thermal to navigate. No. In a bright area, what's the point of thermal? Honestly. If you know your way around the map then WHY would you put on thermal, there is NO point. You can see the same and if not better on normal vision and you DO NOT register on EMF. "OH! I can see pefectly fine in this area and I know it by heart, let's just turn on thermal for shits and giggles!"
Didn't Spekkio and I just explain to you why using thermal in open areas is better for spotting mines and other traps? Seriously, you're just being stubborn now. That's why I made the comment about you being killed by mines often -- it's so obvious that you're a noob at this game. Yes, I use my memory of the map to navigate, but just because I know the map doesn't mean I'm not navigating with it. This applies to maps I don't know well either. Even if I know where most things are in a map, I still have to navigate according to traps and whatever else is in my way. Get it through your thick head that there are many tactical advantages to using thermal out in the open. You just suck and are ignorant of this fact that you're desperately arguing a dead point.
QuoteUsing it to navigate throughout the map IS NOT using it discretely.
Once again, you need to learn how to use some discretion (definition is the power or right to decide or act according to one's own judgment; freedom of judgment or choice). Do I need to bring up the example I gave you before, or do I have spoon-feed this concept to you? Do you honestly think I keep thermal on the whole time when a merc is in my presence? Use some fucking discretion and common sense -- it's as if I'm talking to a child when telling you this. I'll quote what I said earlier to reiterate how you keep bringing up a stupid and mute point;
Quote from: VegaUse some discretion, just as you say "I use night vision to navigate" you don't hear me saying "LOL WELL MERCS CAN FIND YOU ON EMF, IDIOT."
THIS QUOTE MEANS THAT YOU USE VISIONS TO NAVIGATE WHEN IT'S TACTICALLY ADVISABLE, NOT WHEN A MERC IS RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU. D-O Y-O-U U-N-D-E-R-S-T-A-N-D?
QuoteJust because you CAN use it to navigate, doesn't mean that you SHOULD. No point to it other than to help you see through smoke and LOCATE things that are used against you.
Locate, yes, we already went over this. That doesn't mean you can't use thermal to navigate from one point to another.
QuoteAnd no, I don't run with thermal on all the time. Why? I DO however, flip it on when I suspect that there may be a mine or two around the corner, in front of me, or wherever. If I hear a mine, then I'll flip it on. If I come to an unguarded open area, I may suspect a mine or laser is around, then I'll flip it on for a second or two. When I come to a place that is prone to mines (entrance from blue room to pirate's room) then I'll turn it on for a few seconds, turn it off, and continue with thermal vision off.
Yeah, that's generally what a lot of people to do, too. I do this as well. I think it's funny how you automatically assume I use thermal at the most inopportune times. I'm not the noob, you are ;). I can clearly admit that I suck at the game, but that's because I barely ever play anymore. I care more about having a good time when I play now. However, it doesn't matter if I suck or not, I understand the game mechanics, where you don't. Do you want another obvious example of when I use thermal to navigate? Get ready for this one; when I'm running from point A to point B! WHOA!!! Not using thermal discreetly? It doesn't matter, I'd be spotted with thermal on or off. Now, if you want to be an idiot and make another mute point and say "WELL IF YOU'RE RUNNING FROM ONE POINT TO ANOTHER THEN YOU AREN'T A GOOD SPY" then I have no quarrels about it. You can continue to point out your nubness, I don't mind.
thx vega ;D
i use thermal a lot when i'm sure no merc can see me with emf or when i'm playing aggro. it got almost no drawbacks (especially because i can't see light cones of flashlights with my 8800gtx anyways).
the camera cone thingy on nv wouldn't really boost nv (except some rare cases like cam after doorway and no visible line to wards it), but help learning maps. i don't really think is it such a good idea as it dumbs down sneaking past cameras too much.
You misunderstood me. I said that just because you can, there isn't really a reason that you should. If you don't know common mine placement or you can't see a mine then that's your problem. I am not killed by mines that much. Why? I don't run around the map with thermal on, so how exactly do I avoid mines? I just flip it on for a second and move on. I know common mine placement and I avoid those areas or I chaff them. Funny how you can call me a noob to this game and I've been playing since day one of PT.
Going from point A to point B doesn't mean that you are completely noticable. The whole path could be in the shadows. At that point, why put on thermal?
It really doesnt matter how you guys play the game. The discussion is about buffing/finding new use for nv, right ? Or is it about who sucks ?
Quote from: Papa Skull on December 19, 2007, 06:14:32 PM
Funny how you can call me a noob to this game and I've been playing since day one of PT.
it's too obvious...
Quote from: Papa Skull on December 19, 2007, 06:14:32 PM
Going from point A to point B doesn't mean that you are completely noticable. The whole path could be in the shadows. At that point, why put on thermal?
Quote from: Vega on December 19, 2007, 06:03:46 PM
Do you want another obvious example of when I use thermal to navigate? Get ready for this one; when I'm running from point A to point B! WHOA!!!
this should clarify it.
while moving you see different spots of the map, there are corners etc.
and why shouldn't i use tv when i'm sure the merc can't see me or when i'm playing aggro and don't mind anyways?
Vega - 14
Papa - 0
Quote from: Papa Skull on December 19, 2007, 06:14:32 PM
You misunderstood me. I said that just because you can, there isn't really a reason that you should.
I didn't misunderstand you, this is simply me refuting your original point that thermal isn't used for navigation; so I used multiple reasons to tell you why your statement was incorrect.
QuoteIf you don't know common mine placement or you can't see a mine then that's your problem.
Simply a matter of play style, I like the mines to be very visible.
QuoteI know common mine placement and I avoid those areas or I chaff them.
As do I.
QuoteFunny how you can call me a noob to this game and I've been playing since day one of PT.
Whoopdedoo, sure don't act like it.
QuoteGoing from point A to point B doesn't mean that you are completely noticable. The whole path could be in the shadows. At that point, why put on thermal?
I'm not going to go over this all again, so I'll make this short. If it's in the shadows and no vision is needed then I don't use them. If it's out in the open and I feel there is no need to use thermal, then I don't. Simple as that. I never once said "I always use thermal when I navigate." I said "thermal can be used for navigating."
If you want ways to make NV used more you need:
-Maps with more shadows
-Put a fairly low max vision range on thermal, making it good for spotting things close but sucky for spotting things in the distance.
That way NV becomes your long range darkness vision.
Of course, I'm honeslty not even sure we need that. Personally I'd just say drop NV vision entirely and just have basic + thermal. I mean, this game doesn't have to be exactly like CT solely for the sake of being exactly like CT. NV wasn't really used, so we honestly don't need it.
Quote from: InvisibleMan999 on December 19, 2007, 07:08:41 PM
-Put a fairly low max vision range on thermal, making it good for spotting things close but sucky for spotting things in the distance.
no
Quote from: InvisibleMan999 on December 19, 2007, 07:08:41 PM
-Put a fairly low max vision range on thermal, making it good for spotting things close but sucky for spotting things in the distance.
no. it's the most obvious and easiest fix but why nerf tv when it's no problem?
Honestly Vega. Do you ever turn on thermal vision JUST for navigating? Do you ever just turn it on so you can find your way? I HIGHLY doubt that. But, you do say you can find mines while using it and moving right? So doesn't that mean LOCATING mines?
Quote from: Papa Skull on December 19, 2007, 08:42:04 PM
Honestly Vega. Do you ever turn on thermal vision JUST for navigating? Do you ever just turn it on so you can find your way? I HIGHLY doubt that. But, you do say you can find mines while using it and moving right? So doesn't that mean LOCATING mines?
I use thermal sometimes when I'm navigating, along with NV and no vision. I do just turn on thermal to navigate. Got a problem with it?
You can locate and navigate your way by mines using thermal.
Quote from: Papa Skull on December 19, 2007, 08:42:04 PM
Honestly Vega. Do you ever turn on thermal vision JUST for navigating? Do you ever just turn it on so you can find your way? I HIGHLY doubt that. But, you do say you can find mines while using it and moving right? So doesn't that mean LOCATING mines?
How stubborn can you be? Didn't I just explain all of this to you? I use thermal to find my way at times, just as I use night vision. This is the same basic concept of you "using night vision to navigate," stop shooting yourself in the foot. Locating mines? You gotta be kidding me, no, I find mines with my amazing ultra extra sensory perception. As a matter of fact, I don't even need my visions; I always know where traps and mercs are because of my ESP. This is a waste of time, if you're going to keep ignoring what I say in favor of holding onto the last bit of dignity that you have left then I'm done spoon-feeding you these concepts.
@Papa Skull :Why do you want to force ppl to use NV...
Quote from: Test-Subject on December 20, 2007, 12:38:36 AM
@Papa Skull :Why do you want to force ppl to use NV...
good point test, speaking of nightvision ahh I truely miss white night vision .. because if light glared in ur eyes your LIKE HOLY SMOKES I GOTTA TURNZ TEH NIGHTZ VISIOnZ OfF
Night Vision should see Lazer Mines instead of thermal, i mean a lazer doesnt produce a lot heat but nightvision can see it
or at least according to modern warfare
http://youtube.com/watch?v=QNIHTPTHrs0
i dont know if its farfetched to you but i think that seems pretty reasonable and realistic
then again i usually dont know what im talking about
Quote from: theyearis1945 on December 20, 2007, 05:27:37 AM
Night Vision should see Lazer Mines instead of thermal, i mean a lazer doesnt produce a lot heat but nightvision can see it
or at least according to modern warfare
http://youtube.com/watch?v=QNIHTPTHrs0
i dont know if its farfetched to you but i think that seems pretty reasonable and realistic
then again i usually dont know what im talking about
Nv (conventional) just amplify the brightness of the image it's sees and converts in green (because it's the color the human can best difference different tones). Thermal is set to pick-up light wavelength than the humain eye can't see... If the lazer heats the air you will see it.
I think militairy Nv can pick-up infrared (cuz it is use as laser-sight for sniper and other stuff like in CoD4)
+ lazer security systemes use infrared beams so you can "see them" with nv BUT like for normal light you don't see a beam(think of a flashlight) you see a spot on the all
Quote from: Vega on December 19, 2007, 10:35:22 PM
Quote from: Papa Skull on December 19, 2007, 08:42:04 PM
Honestly Vega. Do you ever turn on thermal vision JUST for navigating? Do you ever just turn it on so you can find your way? I HIGHLY doubt that. But, you do say you can find mines while using it and moving right? So doesn't that mean LOCATING mines?
How stubborn can you be? Didn't I just explain all of this to you? I use thermal to find my way at times, just as I use night vision. This is the same basic concept of you "using night vision to navigate," stop shooting yourself in the foot. Locating mines? You gotta be kidding me, no, I find mines with my amazing ultra extra sensory perception. As a matter of fact, I don't even need my visions; I always know where traps and mercs are because of my ESP. This is a waste of time, if you're going to keep ignoring what I say in favor of holding onto the last bit of dignity that you have left then I'm done spoon-feeding you these concepts.
Why should we make thermal for navigating? If we can see walls and everything what the fuck is the point of NV? That's why I want thermal to register walls and edges more poorly. Thermal detects heat. If anything it should be made to the point where most things are the same temperature in the same area so you can't really tell the difference between a the wall and the floor, it would all be the same shade of blue ( which would be a pretty nice looking effect, almost as though you are walking on nothing)
I just want NV to have a purpose other than finding your way through a vent, because that is the only scenario where NV totally beats thermal. Of course darker maps would help, but once people start to know the maps then NV may become useless once again to the thermal vision. I say nerf thermal a little bit so it is harder to navigate with it, but still somewhat possible.
I really don't see the point of this discussion! I think it's perfect as it is in CT. I use NV quite a lot when I navigate, it's all about keeping track of where the mrecs are so you don't get spotted by the EMF.
I like NV becaues you can really see things clearly and I find it osmehow relaxing. There is no need to bring down thermal just to force people to use NV more. If they like thermal more then let them use it. We all play this game diffrently and that's what makes it so great.
Make NV like it was in PT (colors) and add the PTNV blur to Thermal.
What you COULD do IF you are going to make the thermal less usefull to navigate with is something like this. When you stand still, you cn focus and everything is sharp like it is now. But when you are moving, it gets all blurry so you can only see the colours.
But as I said before. I think it's perfectly good as it is in CT already.
Yeah like in DA...
(For Nv maybe a darker green would be nicer)
Quote from: Test-Subject on December 20, 2007, 03:22:06 PM
Yeah like in DA...
(For Nv maybe a darker green would be nicer)
or grey.
Darker green? Nah, I preffered the white night vision that amplifies much better.
grey nv ftw
Quote from: Papa Skull on December 20, 2007, 08:41:33 PM
Darker green? Nah, I preffered the white night vision that amplifies much better.
Well you see better the contrast in green then in white and it's how Hight-end NV is done
Quote from: Test-Subject on December 21, 2007, 01:11:03 AM
Quote from: Papa Skull on December 20, 2007, 08:41:33 PM
Darker green? Nah, I preffered the white night vision that amplifies much better.
Well you see better the contrast in green then in white and it's how Hight-end NV is done
As Papa would idiotically say; "Green nightvision?! That's a new one. Quit making up stuff, you're full of shit."
Test, be careful arguing with Papa, using logical and sound reasons have no impact on him.
Same with Vega.
Vega, I did not say that. I say that I prefer PT or DA whitish NV more than green NV. Quit starting shit with me you douche bag.
You're ignorant and stubborn, no, I'll point you out for what you are. See, you say "same for vega" like an idiot but you haven't given one reason in your argument to prove me wrong. For some reason you think "navigation" means "in the dark" and that's the whole basis of your shitty argument. Not only that, but you ignore anything I say that proves you wrong and then ramble on about something that isn't even pertaining to our argument (IE you quoting me and then saying what you think should be done for thermal in PS; comletely irrelevant).
You refuse to accept the concept that not only night vision, but thermal can be used for navigation. I don't know if you were hit on your head, or if you simply don't understand splinter cell. The fact stands that you have proven yourself many times to have all the qualities of a noob; ignorant, stubborn, and unwilling to know when to shut the fuck up.
Yea Vega can you stop callin him out on every little thing. Kinda annoying how your bringing these topics off subject. :-\
These topics? Geez man if you're going to make a statement at least make it true. While you're at it, why don't you contribute to this topic? As it's standing, your post makes no contribution to the original topic.
it's always the same: papaskull or some other noob spams bs that clearly proof his low understanding of svm totally ignoring the arguments of better players and then flames with his noobfriends about getting flamed/going off-topic. thank god i'm no longer the only "evil arrogant bastard" here...
Quote from: Vega on December 21, 2007, 04:34:32 AM
You're ignorant and stubborn, no, I'll point you out for what you are. See, you say "same for vega" like an idiot but you haven't given one reason in your argument to prove me wrong. For some reason you think "navigation" means "in the dark" and that's the whole basis of your shitty argument. Not only that, but you ignore anything I say that proves you wrong and then ramble on about something that isn't even pertaining to our argument (IE you quoting me and then saying what you think should be done for thermal in PS; comletely irrelevant).
You refuse to accept the concept that not only night vision, but thermal can be used for navigation. I don't know if you were hit on your head, or if you simply don't understand splinter cell. The fact stands that you have proven yourself many times to have all the qualities of a noob; ignorant, stubborn, and unwilling to know when to shut the fuck up.
Just because you can navigate with thermal doesn't mean you should be able to. If you can it renders NV completely useless other than in places like vents. I don't want to see that happen. In dark places you can still see walls and such with thermal vsion. So, what the fuck is NV even good for, unless you are in a vent??
Quote from: Papa Skull on December 21, 2007, 07:04:10 PM
Just because you can navigate with thermal doesn't mean you should be able to. If you can it renders NV completely useless other than in places like vents. I don't want to see that happen. In dark places you can still see walls and such with thermal vsion. So, what the fuck is NV even good for, unless you are in a vent??
It's not good for much. But that doesn't necessarily mean we should automatically upgrade it and make it useful for other things. We could just take it out of the game. I don't really feel like the game would lose much gameplay if we just removed NV and had people use thermal for stuff.
That's what I mean though, NV is like a classic kind of spy gadget. If he sneaks in the shadows and doesn't have NV then it would be kind of dumb and dissapointing. If it's not good for much, or anything for that matter, then we should do one of the following:
1. Combine it with thermal vision to make ONE vision that does everything. Like GRAW has a green night vision and registers heat in white at the same time. Could work out nicely.
2. Remove it.
3. Balance both visions so that it makes NV actually useful.
The good thing about combining the visions is that it wouldn't mess with the balance that much. Combining merc visions is a different story.
... How about a 'godlike' vision that is like Byakugan from naruto, but takes 20 seconds to activate, and works for 5-10s???
A gadget, maybe?
Quote from: InvisibleMan999 on December 21, 2007, 07:06:01 PM
Quote from: Papa Skull on December 21, 2007, 07:04:10 PM
Just because you can navigate with thermal doesn't mean you should be able to. If you can it renders NV completely useless other than in places like vents. I don't want to see that happen. In dark places you can still see walls and such with thermal vsion. So, what the fuck is NV even good for, unless you are in a vent??
It's not good for much. But that doesn't necessarily mean we should automatically upgrade it and make it useful for other things. We could just take it out of the game. I don't really feel like the game would lose much gameplay if we just removed NV and had people use thermal for stuff.
Taking out of the game is an equally extreme reaction. Even if you only use NV 5% of the time, that's still 5% of the time where it's actually necessary.
I use NV quite a bit when trying to navigate through vents and dark areas. Not as much as thermal, but often enough where I wouldn't want it removed.
no removal of nvg. just because you dont use it doesnt mean others dont.....or did :(
That's why I suggested combining the two visions together. If any of you have played GRAW, you'll know what I mean. It basically lights everything up in a green filter, night vision, and registers heat as white, thermal.
Here is a great example of what I mean. Except for the fact that the heat (in white) should be a little clearer and more sharp.
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/wordpress/wp-content/gamereviews/xbox/ghostrecon/gr2.jpg (http://www.armchairgeneral.com/wordpress/wp-content/gamereviews/xbox/ghostrecon/gr2.jpg)
It's for those times where you actually need night vision and you use thermal at the same time.
That looks good, now we need a motion tracking electro-magnetic field vision mode. :P
Well, combining those two visions would be unbalanced, this would not.
I'd like if the thermal-vision would see footprints or leftover heat from mercs/spies!
Quote from: the_blueflame on December 22, 2007, 06:19:25 PM
I'd like if the thermal-vision would see footprints or leftover heat from mercs/spies!
yeah that would be fancy :o
Quote from: Gawain on December 22, 2007, 06:58:48 PM
Quote from: the_blueflame on December 22, 2007, 06:19:25 PM
I'd like if the thermal-vision would see footprints or leftover heat from mercs/spies!
yeah that would be fancy :o
and realy farfetched
yeah
And a bit unbalanced...
IMO if you want to buff nvgs so much you could make it so that only the goggles light up on EMF. Would make the nvg much less visible on EMF unless the goggles draw power from the suit.
Also hi.