My experience with Splinter Cell Games has probably been shallow compared to the more hardcore members here. Most of my experiences came from SCDA (which isn't the most liked SC, but was a good start for me). But all in all was good enough for me to form up what IMO would be a great stealth game.
1- Proximity sensor is just plain aweful. How is it stealthy when you always know when a spy is near? This should really be a host option.
2- Blackwing Rocks. There are also a few awesome maps on CT like Orphanage. This kind of awesome-ness is needed.
3- It's hard for me to tell weather it's better to have the flashlight on the mercs weapon, or on the headpeice.
4- Droning. This was a good addition but there were heavy flaws. Mercs would back up to windows, stand on couches, yada yada and be impossible to be grabbed from behind. This was just plain cheap. :-[
5- Camera's in CT were a bit annoying. Only because every corner i took, i'd end up setting off some type of alarm, and it messed up the games pace. Either put in fewer camera's or take out the motion sensing altogether.
6- More than just plain next snapping would be nice. Here's an idea I had. The Mercenary carries a normal M9 Pistol on him at all times, but never uses it. When the spy grabs the mercenary, the spy can grab the pistol, go to first person view and use the merc as a shield while he can take out any opposition trying to save the endangered merc. Otherwise The spy could kick the merc to his knees and pop him in the back of the head. Perhaps a knife to the throat or kidneys?
7- Melee moves (especially for the spy) seem like they need some work. Aside from the fact that melee attacks were non-existant in DA, CT's spy melees seemed awkward because you'd sometimes run up and try to grab a merc but accidentally elbow him in the back of the head. It mostly meant certain death unless you were lucky enough to weasle out of it somehow. it would have been nice to have it in DA when you come across a guy who was cheap droning on a couch or something. You'd just have to pop em one and run like hell when they start shoosting like an angry like an angry mob boss.
8- Smoke grenades are damn near useless in DA, but spammed like hell in CT.
9- The fact that you could only carry one type of gadget in DA was annoying. Most of the time it meant that you were running back to the spawn house to use health suringes, re-equiping your normally used item and then going back to the field. Repeat process again. Perhaps a limit on what you can carry would be nice. Like perhaps a limit of 5 items. 2 flash, 2 smoke, 1 health pack. Just spit ballin.
10- I'd love to see some more Parkour type moves for the spies, and some other merc abilities aside from the normal dash and berserk. Berserk was just a pain to use
11- One time a buddy of mine and i were playing DA. We were on Blackwing and having fun with the merc team. As spies, we had challenged each other to see if we could land on mercs from the top of the Spies' spawn building. That's like 5 stories up. I only pulled it off 3 times, but even though my 160lbs spy crushed the merc from 5 stories up, it would still take another landing on his face to finish him off. I'll let you think about what's potentially wrong with that.
There are just a few things that would help to make the perfect SvM. I've got more, just not enough time to think of them all. Post your own or iterate on the ones i listed.
Well, I'd say most of your post's opinions were formed because you never really played CT a lot. If you play it a lot you will realize that most of the flaws you are talking about are actually just to balance the gameplay. Proximity sensor will be removed fyi.
I would also like to see SOME parkour aspects. Like if you are running full speed and jump off a ledge I would like to see the spy automatically roll. Or maybe you could hold down a button and it automatically climbs whatever ledge is near, like assassin's creed. Not suggesting anything as deep as assassin's creed but the controls are just magnificent.
I must clarify that we are not copying Chaos Theory because it is copywritten. We cannot deny that we are inspired by the game, but we fully intend to make PS different from the Splinter Cell series.
Until then, you will have to wait till a public beta to know what we mean.
Unless you go out and purchase Chaos Theory and learn it better than you did DA. Then you will get a better background because DA was just garbage.
And that makes me happy, Not because I dont want a CT clone (which would be ok) But I beleive with this opportunity, You could do WAY better.
And Yeah Skull, Contextual types of gameplay, Like landing a certain way, or grabbing certain objects.
Twould be awesome sauce
Quote from: Westfall-US on December 27, 2007, 10:37:43 PM
Unless you go out and purchase Chaos Theory and learn it better than you did DA. Then you will get a better background because DA was just garbage.
Oh, I do own it. I just dont play it as much. Mainly because of the voice chat. It sounds kinda crappy compaired to the 360. Oh and yeah, I get my ass whooped on many occations. Probably because it's a whole new ball game from DA. Not to say i'm noob, I understand the gist of it, but walking into the occational wall-mine or doing somthing in DA that you SHOULDN"T do in CT gets me killed alot.
And it sux that you cant hack your objectives, So everytime you try and accomplish said objective, the merc always knows where you are....
Get Xfire (www.xfire.com) and plenty of vets will help you.
Quote from: Hybrid Circle on December 27, 2007, 10:42:11 PM
And it sux that you cant hack your objectives, So everytime you try and accomplish said objective, the merc always knows where you are....
That doesn't suck. You have to make sure the coast is clear before you hack.
Quote from: frvge on December 27, 2007, 10:46:05 PM
Get Xfire (www.xfire.com) and plenty of vets will help you.
Oh, I dont have the PC version, Although My PC could probably handle it. Just not sure where to find a copy of it now... The problem with my PC is it is JUST old enough on only have a PCI Graphics slot. So i cant get anything AGP or Express. So it means i'll need a new mother board...
i have a PCI card....
some points like that passive security is bad show that he has only a shallow understanding of the gameplay, but there are two points worth discussing:
-smoke nades are slightely op
-drones
I wouldn't say shallow, It was just annoying to me because I had to stop, shoot the damn thing, proceed. REPEAT PROCESS. It was like there were more than two players on the mercs team.
It makes your merc play somewhat easier as well. You don't have to shoot the damn thing. You can roll through it, chaff it, or go a different way.
factory as an example: if you know what you're doing you can bypass all security without SS or chaff besides the cam in B to digger and the cam in main if you want to make coop.
cinema: motion sensors don't detect you in slow mode
etc
i would understand if you complain about it in pt, but in ct there's rather too few passive security.
Uh, I can get past all camera's in B. Not 100% of the time tho. You need to get lucky sometimes.
I think it'd be alot better if the mercs just had their own camera's to place, like the spies.
No. It would ruin the stealth experience.
Quote from: frvge on December 28, 2007, 02:16:23 PM
Uh, I can get past all camera's in B. Not 100% of the time tho. You need to get lucky sometimes.
all?? you can't get past the cam heading to digger, and probably not past the cam heading at the doorway to machine (but to the vent to machine).
whatever, it was just meant as an example to show that passive security isn't overdone on ct maps.
in fact, we will need much more without eax superhearing and a stronger camo.
QuoteProximity sensor will be removed fyi.
May I ask who said that?
Perhaps that's his way of saying "I HOPE"
as am i
Quote from: LennardF1989 on December 28, 2007, 06:20:39 PM
QuoteProximity sensor will be removed fyi.
May I ask who said that?
Wasn't this confirmed? If not, then I HOPE this is removed. It's not something we want for SvM gameplay, when I say we I mean like 99% of us.
Quote from: Papa Skull on December 28, 2007, 06:48:14 PM
Quote from: LennardF1989 on December 28, 2007, 06:20:39 PM
QuoteProximity sensor will be removed fyi.
May I ask who said that?
Wasn't this confirmed? If not, then I HOPE this is removed. It's not something we want for SvM gameplay, when I say we I mean like 99% of us.
See? LOL
but yeah. If anything, make it a host option. but as far as a ranked thing goes, NOPE
Quote from: Gawain on December 28, 2007, 04:46:16 PM
Quote from: frvge on December 28, 2007, 02:16:23 PM
Uh, I can get past all camera's in B. Not 100% of the time tho. You need to get lucky sometimes.
all?? you can't get past the cam heading to digger,
Really? http://www.speedyshare.com/581139688.html
Quote from: Frelli on December 28, 2007, 08:49:12 PM
Quote from: Gawain on December 28, 2007, 04:46:16 PM
Quote from: frvge on December 28, 2007, 02:16:23 PM
Uh, I can get past all camera's in B. Not 100% of the time tho. You need to get lucky sometimes.
all?? you can't get past the cam heading to digger,
Really? http://www.speedyshare.com/581139688.html
Yea man.
I guess I was looking forward to the ping being removed too. Unless it turns map specific and acts as a new gadget.
Quote from: Westfall-US on December 28, 2007, 08:54:34 PM
Quote from: Frelli on December 28, 2007, 08:49:12 PM
Quote from: Gawain on December 28, 2007, 04:46:16 PM
Quote from: frvge on December 28, 2007, 02:16:23 PM
Uh, I can get past all camera's in B. Not 100% of the time tho. You need to get lucky sometimes.
all?? you can't get past the cam heading to digger,
Really? http://www.speedyshare.com/581139688.html
Yea man.
I guess I was looking forward to the ping being removed too. Unless it turns map specific and acts as a new gadget.
Not sure if I understood your post correct. But the last cam (which he said wasn't possible) isn't moving, so I don't think lag matters there?
I think he was talking about the PD in the bottom line.
that's a new one to me, thx frelli.
i guess he means the sound reticule?
i think we could make the presence detector as a gadget that takes a slot. it could be balanced with a lower scanning frequency. just another tool to find the spies like traps etc. i would like to see a balanced presence detector as it rewards patroulling.
agreed
Quote from: Gawain on December 28, 2007, 09:59:55 PM
i think we could make the presence detector as a gadget that takes a slot. it could be balanced with a lower scanning frequency. just another tool to find the spies like traps etc. i would like to see a balanced presence detector as it rewards patroulling.
NOOOOOOOOO PD!!!!!
Quote from: Frelli on December 28, 2007, 10:20:06 PM
Quote from: Gawain on December 28, 2007, 09:59:55 PM
i think we could make the presence detector as a gadget that takes a slot. it could be balanced with a lower scanning frequency. just another tool to find the spies like traps etc. i would like to see a balanced presence detector as it rewards patroulling.
NOOOOOOOOO PD!!!!!
I agree. At least host option only
I think my version of the PD was much more elegant.
Quote from: Hybrid Circle on December 27, 2007, 10:42:11 PM
Quote from: Westfall-US on December 27, 2007, 10:37:43 PM
Unless you go out and purchase Chaos Theory and learn it better than you did DA. Then you will get a better background because DA was just garbage.
Oh, I do own it. I just dont play it as much. Mainly because of the voice chat. It sounds kinda crappy compaired to the 360. Oh and yeah, I get my ass whooped on many occations. Probably because it's a whole new ball game from DA. Not to say i'm noob, I understand the gist of it, but walking into the occational wall-mine or doing somthing in DA that you SHOULDN"T do in CT gets me killed alot.
And it sux that you cant hack your objectives, So everytime you try and accomplish said objective, the merc always knows where you are....
ya do what piano says to get xfire and man id be glad to Help you out :) .
I think a nerfed PD with a lower detection range that takes a whole slot would be balanced. It would replace the gun while he is using it so you can't just walk around with it pulled out w/o sacrificing something. I think it was Tidenburg who suggested this, and it could work actually.
Believe me, I HATE the PD also. But if it handicaps the merc to use it then that's fine. The problem with DA is that you could just walk around w/o even having to check corners and then berserk when the thing started to beep. If you aren't able to shoot or berserk while using it then it would be okay actually.
What's the point of adding a "balanced" PD(these are in quotes because this kills the game no matter how shitty you make the PD)? It doesn't reward patrolling -- patrolling is part of SvM and if you don't do it then you most likely suck. There are very limited instances in SvM where camping is cheap. Here's an example: Deftech courtyard camping is always going to be there because the map simply allows it. Adding a PD wouldn't change this fact, I guarantee people would rather take an eagle's eye view in Deftech courtyard instead of a PD.
Besides certain maps allowing it, camping is still part of the SvM experience. I'm not referring to camping such as Deftech courtyard but camping key objectives. Afterall, why would you leave an objective out of your sights if you know a spy is nearby? You do this if there are other objectives that you need to watch over -- effectively creating a patrol routine. But if there is one objective left, why would I want to leave my objective and search for a spy? Let him come to me, I have time on my side. Of course this is a loose situation, don't take "leave an objective out of your sights" so strictly.
You might be right. I think my hate for the damn thing is more than I remembered it was. I agree, it ruins the way this game plays. CT you have to check every corner or you could die. Even with a balanced one you just walk around until you get a ping and get your gun out.
i still think it could be balanced and not ruin the game if implemented the right way. i'm well aware that it was implemented poorly in scda. for example:
-scans every 6 seconds with 7m radius
-no range indicator
-really loud "beep"
-works through materials so that you can find spies in vents/ceiling
-also gives alert when there's a snare
-takes a gadget slot
this way, it wouldn't be a no brainer like in scda. heck, we could even set a limited amount of uses like 10 times. this way you can only use it when you suspect a spy being within the radius.
especially with no emf ghosting and no eax sh you are fucked up on maps like orphanage with a ceiling/vent next to an objective (counter point: bad map design anyways). i also liked the drone idea to push people out of vents or get a higher viewing point (with a hold-position function this could replace camnet).
Quote from: Gawain on December 28, 2007, 09:59:55 PM
that's a new one to me, thx frelli.
i guess he means the sound reticule?
i think we could make the presence detector as a gadget that takes a slot. it could be balanced with a lower scanning frequency. just another tool to find the spies like traps etc. i would like to see a balanced presence detector as it rewards patroulling.
As another gadget is exactly what I was going for. Perhaps make it an "alternative" that the host can control.
I'm not really a big fan of it though. It was overpowering like hell in DA. Spy couldn't be stealthy if he wanted to. Maybe it should only be allowed to ping if the spy trips a trap? Spy traps and PD traps. Just a thought. You can hate it all you want. I won't be offended ;)
Quote from: Gawain on December 29, 2007, 09:34:19 AM
i still think it could be balanced and not ruin the game if implemented the right way. i'm well aware that it was implemented poorly in scda. for example:
-scans every 6 seconds with 7m radius
-no range indicator
-really loud "beep"
-works through materials so that you can find spies in vents/ceiling
-also gives alert when there's a snare
-takes a gadget slot
this way, it wouldn't be a no brainer like in scda. heck, we could even set a limited amount of uses like 10 times. this way you can only use it when you suspect a spy being within the radius.
especially with no emf ghosting and no eax sh you are fucked up on maps like orphanage with a ceiling/vent next to an objective (counter point: bad map design anyways). i also liked the drone idea to push people out of vents or get a higher viewing point (with a hold-position function this could replace camnet).
Gawain the problem with this now is that it is not nearly as useful as other gadgets. I wouldn't want to supplement my normal loadout of frags, mines, gas mask, and backpack for this new PD gadget. By nerfing it to hell so it isn't too good, it then becomes a poor gadget. Sure, you can find a middle ground but that will be difficult and could easily change the gameplay for the worse. To put it simply, I don't believe a PD fits in a CT-universe game. It was better in DA (even though I still thought it was a bad move) because the maps were more open-ended and spies were a lot quicker. In CT, many times you're above (ceiling) or below (under a floor) a merc that a PD would just mess things over. I'm sure there is
some possible way of adding a PD-like device into this game, but is it really worth it?
As for the Drone....I'm skeptical but unsure.
i'm sure that it can be implemented in a balanced way, but i'm also unsure if it's worth the effort.
implementing a drone would be worth it though, especially as a more balanced replacement for camnet that can also look into vents/ceilings but only at one spot at a time and needs navigation/time to set up.
Yeah, and with restrictions of where it can go, and a range of how far it can go from the merc. I might even take drones over backpack then sometimes, depending on the map. I like the way you fly drones in DA.
Yeah I have to admit, I like the drones WAY more than the Cam Net. And plus, it leaves the poor sap open for a snapping. I would just hope that it is BALANCED this time around. There was nothing that angered me more than watching a merc put his back to a window or stand on something so I couldn't grab him. That's testament to how retarded UBI shanghai is.
Oh and what about the White Outline around the spy on SCDA when the spy is moving a certain speed. Yeah, do away with that crap
Oh and to the one who said XFire, I dont have the PC version.
The white crap you speak of was to replace Motion tracking. I'm about 99% sure it won't be like DA.
drones would be cool, espically if you could shock them, flash bang and chaf.