Here is my idea for a new gadget.
It would take up one slot and allow you to:
-Pull yourself up co-op spots without 2 people.
-Hang down from overhead pipes.
-Hang down from ledges.
-Pull your partner up onto a high ledge. (Though depending on the hieght, it may take a very long time)
Constructive critcism or positive feedback?
I like it, only, what do you mean by ledges? You mean the ones on the wall? Or ledges as over a railling or something.
Though, I think it would shatter the teamwork of spies a little, since you can do everything on your own. Which on the other hand is good, if it is 1vs1 or other.
lol u stoles my idea!!! lol i made a topic on this like 5 seconds ago, anyway maybe we could merge the two.
I like the Idea, but i dont think it you should be able to use it to co-op yourself. I think it should be able to attach to anything apart from walls, and you can use it to hang down from pipes and ledges (by ledges i mean the types of ledges in garden on clubhouse, and the sector one ledges in warehouse) I also think mercs should be able to shoot the rope (for example when hanging from a ledge the hook would be attached to the rail above it (think warehouse ledges) and the merc would be able to shoot the rope, or the grapple and the spy would fall). Oh this shouldnt be a gadget, but a standard device, which all spies have. It could also be used as a stealth weapon, for example if your in exe, and a merc coming and your like "shizwtfomghesgnaseeme" just shoot a rapel in the ceiling and climb it and hope he doesnt see it. Just an example ;)
Fun idea.
It would be pretty darn powerful IMHO. For example Aqua; at some point your partner is dead and the mercs will stop defending the areas which you can't reach without coop. The grappling hook would change that and give you a much better shot going 1 vs 2.
A thing like this begs for being able to switch gadgets at equipment boxes. The aqua example again; you would be able to get into tech where you would leave the hook at the equipment box to take some aggro gadgets.
Sounds awesome IMHO, but I would make the hook take up two slots and only implement it if the game allows players to swap gadgets at the equipment boxes.
Kubanator nice at stealing someone's idea and presenting it as your own...
We werent talking about coop option before. You should be able to get to places where you wouldnt get without partner. I see this hook as a gadget to move slowly and quietly but without losing health.
Every spy should have one, cause it gives you a choice. You can play fast but risk your health or move slowly but remain undetected. You should also be able to use camo while moving.
I like the idea of this being a default inventory item (functions to be discussed about).
Though, the idea of being able to switch gadgets ingame is fun aswell (not DA-like!!!). This one life you could go stealth, the second life you could go aggro.
It is a pretty neat idea. Spies shouldn't be able to access coop though. Would the mercs have a grappling hook too?
I think that I could be a good thing to be able to reach coop when you're partner is already dead, as long as there's a trade-off involved. It could easily be overpowered if it doesn't cost the spies anything to reach those coop areas.
Agent talked to me about mercs having one as well, but the merc version would be more like the rappel rope from DA. I liked that feature.
If climbing up a Coop spot on your own takes 30-40 secs, sure.
You spoke about 2 slots for the grappling hook. What about one slot for a rope and another slot for a gadget, which needs a rope. The second gadget could be a normal hook, or a magnet, for metallic surfaces. It could also be a kind of nail for shooting it into a wall. Then you could build a trip wire a merc would fall over.
I don't think any item or ability that changes your access to the map should be selectable. What I think could work is building grappling spots into the map, so that you can't just hop up into coop spots or whatever.
Quote from: Spekkio on March 09, 2008, 06:50:15 PM
I don't think any item or ability that changes your access to the map should be selectable. What I think could work is building grappling spots into the map, so that you can't just hop up into coop spots or whatever.
It doesn't change your access. It lets you get off of a pipe or ledge without damage, and get to co-op areas without using 2 people.
Nice new idea. I thought it was a merc grappling hook for a second, which may be a nice gadget to offer mercs. (although it would make it harder to balance maps)...
As for this idea, sure. Seems like it would add to the gameplay and make it easier for 1 spy against 2 mercs. It would lead to some interesting situations.
yup .. I think that's a pretty nice idea and should be thought over by the devs!
Quote from: neth on March 09, 2008, 01:30:58 PM
Kubanator nice at stealing someone's idea and presenting it as your own...
We werent talking about coop option before. You should be able to get to places where you wouldnt get without partner. I see this hook as a gadget to move slowly and quietly but without losing health.
Every spy should have one, cause it gives you a choice. You can play fast but risk your health or move slowly but remain undetected. You should also be able to use camo while moving.
Haha, im glad someone noticed ;).
anyhow like i said in my prev post i think itd be balanced IF:
- It should be able to attach to anything apart from walls
- It can be used to hang from pipes/ceiling/ledges or just or simply to climb
- It should be a COMPULSORY ITEM
- Spies should be able to use camo while using grapple
- A spy could shoot a graple and come back to it later provided he hasnt died.
- It could be used in coop points which can be accessed by a single spy (e.g clubhouse g1 u can coop to g2, but you can also get there without cooping, same with mono coop points, but NOT coop points which cannot be accessed by a single spy (eg aqua tech room)
Here's some i just thought of:
- Spies should be able to turn on the rope, like they can on ladders
- Spies shouldn't be able to jump off of it (they would need to reach top/bottom and unclip the rappel, this would make the weapon more balanced as it can be attached to practically anything, and would stop merc's getting jumped out of nowhere).
- Only when the rappel is being fired should it make a sound (Not sure about this point, maybe it should be silent)
Quote from: Kubanator on March 09, 2008, 07:12:59 PM
Quote from: Spekkio on March 09, 2008, 06:50:15 PM
I don't think any item or ability that changes your access to the map should be selectable. What I think could work is building grappling spots into the map, so that you can't just hop up into coop spots or whatever.
It doesn't change your access. It lets you get off of a pipe or ledge without damage, and get to co-op areas without using 2 people.
Being able to get somewhere that required 2 people with 1 = changing map access through gadgets.
Quote from: neth on March 09, 2008, 01:30:58 PM
Kubanator nice at stealing someone's idea and presenting it as your own...
We werent talking about coop option before. You should be able to get to places where you wouldnt get without partner. I see this hook as a gadget to move slowly and quietly but without losing health.
Every spy should have one, cause it gives you a choice. You can play fast but risk your health or move slowly but remain undetected. You should also be able to use camo while moving.
He presented it as some sort of a rope you shoot. I think of it as a rope you lower or throw up. Plus I thought up the co-op and 1 man co-op moves.
Quote from: FR33M4N on March 09, 2008, 07:42:26 PM
Haha, im glad someone noticed ;).
anyhow like i said in my prev post i think itd be balanced IF:
1. It should be able to attach to anything apart from walls
2. It can be used to hang from pipes/ceiling/ledges or just or simply to climb
3. It should be a COMPULSORY ITEM
4. Spies should be able to use camo while using grapple
5. A spy could shoot a graple and come back to it later provided he hasnt died.
6. It could be used in coop points which can be accessed by a single spy (e.g clubhouse g1 u can coop to g2, but you can also get there without cooping, same with mono coop points, but NOT coop points which cannot be accessed by a single spy (eg aqua tech room)
1. It shouldn't be able to attach to ceiling either. Only overhead pipes and ledges whould be grapplable.
2. Not ceilings.
3. That would make co-op pointless. This gadgets purpose is that it allows you more access, for a slot.
4. Yes, but the rope should be visible, and assuming they are not moving fast or under rain.
5. The gagdet I'm talking about is not shot, but thrown, and would be picked up as soon as the spy finished climbing, or else the spy would just put ropes everywhere that his parner could use.
6. The point of this gadget is to allow more places to come from solo, as opposed to forcing them down the same paths.
Quote from: FR33M4N on March 09, 2008, 07:42:26 PM
Here's some i just thought of:
1. Spies should be able to turn on the rope, like they can on ladders
2. Spies shouldn't be able to jump off of it (they would need to reach top/bottom and unclip the rappel, this would make the weapon more balanced as it can be attached to practically anything, and would stop merc's getting jumped out of nowhere).
3. Only when the rappel is being fired should it make a sound (Not sure about this point, maybe it should be silent)
1. If by turn on you mean use, then no because when throwing the rope, the spy automatically goes on it.
2. Yes.
3. It's thrown.
Quote from: Spekkio on March 09, 2008, 08:46:06 PM
Being able to get somewhere that required 2 people with 1 = changing map access through gadgets.
No, because you could already get there, you just needed 2 people. It doesn't change where you can go, it changes when you can go.
Quote from: Kubanator on March 09, 2008, 08:53:27 PM
Quote from: Spekkio on March 09, 2008, 08:46:06 PM
Being able to get somewhere that required 2 people with 1 = changing map access through gadgets.
No, because you could already get there, you just needed 2 people. It doesn't change where you can go, it changes when you can go.
I'm with Spekkio on this one. It definitely changes map access, and this design idea should therefore be explored with care. I'd say that it definitely needs a trade-off. Either way, it's not something to implement in PS 1.0, it's more of a 1.5 idea.
Kubanator, it does change map access. It allows access to a place when you normally wouldn't be allowed to -- no partner present. Coop spots are a balancing factor in itself, that should be obvious. Focusing on "when allowed" does not refute "should allow." Should a single player be allowed to get into a place that normally forces two players to work cooperatively in proximity? No, that's not the way coop spots are meant to be designed. They're meant to have disadvantages and advantages, a grappling hook kills of many of these disadvantages. Frvge's statement of "if it takes 30-40 seconds to climb the coop spot then yes" is on the right track because he notices that in order to balance this out, it must have a severe drawback.
Quote from: MacBryce on March 09, 2008, 09:23:01 PM
Quote from: Kubanator on March 09, 2008, 08:53:27 PM
Quote from: Spekkio on March 09, 2008, 08:46:06 PM
Being able to get somewhere that required 2 people with 1 = changing map access through gadgets.
No, because you could already get there, you just needed 2 people. It doesn't change where you can go, it changes when you can go.
I'm with Spekkio on this one. It definitely changes map access, and this design idea should therefore be explored with care. I'd say that it definitely needs a trade-off. Either way, it's not something to implement in PS 1.0, it's more of a 1.5 idea.
The best way to go about this is to only have certain spots in the map where you can use the grappling hook, like horizontal pipes or areas to which you can attach a rope to rapel down. This can be used either through a selectable or not selectable system. The idea of a grappling hook that can be used anywhere in the map is poor.
Quote from: Spekkio on March 09, 2008, 10:04:56 PM
Quote from: MacBryce on March 09, 2008, 09:23:01 PM
Quote from: Kubanator on March 09, 2008, 08:53:27 PM
Quote from: Spekkio on March 09, 2008, 08:46:06 PM
Being able to get somewhere that required 2 people with 1 = changing map access through gadgets.
No, because you could already get there, you just needed 2 people. It doesn't change where you can go, it changes when you can go.
I'm with Spekkio on this one. It definitely changes map access, and this design idea should therefore be explored with care. I'd say that it definitely needs a trade-off. Either way, it's not something to implement in PS 1.0, it's more of a 1.5 idea.
The best way to go about this is to only have certain spots in the map where you can use the grappling hook, like horizontal pipes or areas to which you can attach a rope to rapel down. This can be used either through a selectable or not selectable system. The idea of a grappling hook that can be used anywhere in the map is poor.
agreed. If there was a symbol that came up (kind of like when you're near a coop) that showed the accessible points of a grappling hook, it would work nicely. You shouldn't be able to access all the coop points. It is a coop for a reason. There could be separate vents placed that only allow for the grappling hook. Again, just a simple symbol to know you can access it would be nice.
Should you be able to shoot it? Should it be a gadget slot, or already with the spy? I do think this shouldn't wait until PS 1.5. Maps will need fixes with grappling hook options if you leave it out at release.
Just to add another reason why you can't have a grappling hook usable anywhere: spies are already much faster and more agile than the mercs...so now you want to give them yet another tool to evade a merc quickly and easily? Imagine if a spy in Club House could just rapel up to Garden 2nd floor when a merc chases him out there without making 2-3 jumps like they do now, or a spy in Mall can just jump up to the 2nd level from the first without going to the stairwell at the far end of the map. That'd be a little bit much.
I can see possibilities of certain non-coop spots having a grappling icon, that sounds cool to me.
Westfall, I'm thinking it should be an inherent gadget. If not that, then it's possible that we could incorporate a separate item slot that is used for certain, specific gadgets only. Such as a "tactical slot." This tactical slot would house gadgets that only helped with a spy's locomotion or entrance and departure. For example, the tactical slot would house the grappling hook and some other gadget that helped with a spy's entrance into a building.
You would have your normal 4-5 gadget slots (whatever we decide on) and then another slot that has only specific gadget to select from and are generally used for gaining access to certain areas. The gadget selection in this slot would be useful and very specific so that each one has an advantage over one another.
Quote from: Spekkio on March 09, 2008, 10:04:56 PM
The best way to go about this is to only have certain spots in the map where you can use the grappling hook.
we already have those in balanced places, put in there by the map makers: ropes and pipes. XD
Quote from: Vega on March 09, 2008, 10:34:05 PM
You would have your normal 4-5 gadget slots (whatever we decide on) and then another slot that has only specific gadget to select from and are generally used for gaining access to certain areas.
well, we dont have any other ideas than the hook as far.
I just wonder if any of our gadget discussions will be ever used :D
Quote from: Spekkio on March 09, 2008, 10:29:53 PM
Just to add another reason why you can't have a grappling hook usable anywhere: spies are already much faster and more agile than the mercs...so now you want to give them yet another tool to evade a merc quickly and easily? Imagine if a spy in Club House could just rapel up to Garden 2nd floor when a merc chases him out there without making 2-3 jumps like they do now, or a spy in Mall can just jump up to the 2nd level from the first without going to the stairwell at the far end of the map. That'd be a little bit much.
The grappling hook wouldnt be one which you shoot and fly up. youd shoot it, and then climb up it, so it would take time, probably about 10 seconds (from g1 to g2). Ten seconds to CLIMB it that it, it takes maybe 1-3 seconds to aim and fire.
Oh and Kubunator you totally ripped my idea.
Quote from: Vega on March 09, 2008, 10:34:05 PM
I can see possibilities of certain non-coop spots having a grappling icon, that sounds cool to me.
Westfall, I'm thinking it should be an inherent gadget. If not that, then it's possible that we could incorporate a separate item slot that is used for certain, specific gadgets only. Such as a "tactical slot." This tactical slot would house gadgets that only helped with a spy's locomotion or entrance and departure. For example, the tactical slot would house the grappling hook and some other gadget that helped with a spy's entrance into a building.
You would have your normal 4-5 gadget slots (whatever we decide on) and then another slot that has only specific gadget to select from and are generally used for gaining access to certain areas. The gadget selection in this slot would be useful and very specific so that each one has an advantage over one another.
Yeh that sounds cool.
Then we'd have to think of a few more gaining access gadgets :)
Maybe we could have a flubber gadget, so the spies can jump super high ;D.
Quote from: FR33M4N on March 09, 2008, 10:56:53 PM
Maybe we could have a flubber gadget, so the spies can jump super high ;D.
What a bad Idea
flubber roflcopter
how about a no_clip gadget? and a force field creating gadget? or some fancy ninja sabers? omg ::)
Quote from: Gawain on March 09, 2008, 11:01:32 PM
flubber roflcopter
how about a no_clip gadget? and a force field creating gadget? or some fancy ninja sabers? omg ::)
rofl, we shud have a spwn ninja gadget, where spies shoot out an egg and seconds later like 10 japenese ninjas come out n pwnt the merc:). Or a Mini-me doctor evil gadget would be cool
How about a slow-field built-in to some maps?
So instead of putting security there you'd need to pass a field in which time flows slower. Or a portal system for the mercs.
Or... shit either UT is so awesome, or my ideas are n00bs.
Both.
The Grappling hook -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grappling_hook (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grappling_hook)- idea isn't stole from anyone and I strongly doubt that someone ever invented it at all anyway.
"The grappling hook became popular as a video game mechanism after the release of the Quake CTF (Capture the Flag) modification on October 2, 1996. This addition to Quake allowed players to fire "the grapple" at any surface. Once embedded in that surface, the grappling hook pulled players to that location. This mechanism allowed players to reach areas of the game level that would otherwise be inaccessible. The huge popularity of this "mod" resulted in the inclusion of both CTF modes and grappling hooks in many future games."
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmodcentral.planetquake.gamespy.com%2FImage23.gif&hash=b7eda287d9195ec60e18e777d0f9c2824c14aa99)
"You could also think to the cool Luke Skywalker Grappling Hook ::) "
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.wikia.com%2Fstarwars%2Fimages%2Fa%2Fa8%2FLuke_hook.JPG&hash=65d7f75117e9e798448cce2c6880bee001e192ff)
I found something funny here: http://www.utzone.de/include.php?path=content/download.php&contentid=2390 (http://www.utzone.de/include.php?path=content/download.php&contentid=2390) lol...(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.utzone.de%2Fcontent%2Fimages%2Fninjarope.jpg&hash=edfbe678f909a4140b2b452d77f9f4e8718d48dc)
For sure I think it could be a nice feature, but I think it could only fit for a MERC... or just not in PS. The only hint I could give about it is to limit the range of the hook to balance de gameplay issues.
The one i mean is like the Batman N Robbin one, where one could fire the grapple, THEN theyd have to clip themself to it, and then climb the rope. It wouldn't just shoot you were you fired in like the UT example you gave. From firing the grapple (depenfing on aiming) to actually being able to clib it should take about 8 seconds roughly (have to wait for rope to straighten etc, and clip spy onto rope). The climbing should be the same spped or maybe slightly slower, so the weapon couldnt be used as an escape tool. So it would take some time to actually use the grapple, however you would be silent ;)
Quote from: Westfall-US on March 09, 2008, 03:44:17 PM
It is a pretty neat idea. Spies shouldn't be able to access coop though. Would the mercs have a grappling hook too?
I think merc's would have the grappling hook which spekkio talks about, where certain points in the map were used for rapel points, but the mercs rapel couldn't be shot out of the gun. like the spies can. This IMO would make it more balanced. I mentioned in my prev post i think a spy should be able to shoot at rapel and come back to it later, provided he hasnt died, i think the merc should be able to do the same with their rapel. for example he could put a rapel on exe top part, at the start of the match for convenience. However, by going for "comebacklater" rapel, this means if they wanted to use it again, they would have to go and collect the rapel which they left before they could use the gadget again. As i talk about this gadget it gets cooler and cooler each time ;D.
A merc grappling hook would go against the whole mechanism of spies being more mobile than mercs.
Quote from: Spekkio on March 10, 2008, 02:52:23 PM
A merc grappling hook would go against the whole mechanism of spies being more mobile than mercs.
Nope. Mercs would have CERTAIN spots for grappling.
Spies would have any ledge except the coop and higher ones.
there is absolutely no need for grapling hooks, excape moves or any other bullshit...
Quote from: Gawain on March 10, 2008, 03:52:58 PM
there is absolutely no need for grapling hooks, excape moves or any other bullshit...
As well as there is no need for ignorant dipshits, who bash every idea and only post negative nonsense.
dude, you are the "ignorant dipshit" here. if you want something new implemented, you better find some good reasons why it would improve and fit into the gameplay. i'm waiting...
Quote from: Gawain on March 10, 2008, 04:25:55 PM
dude, you are the "ignorant dipshit" here. if you want something new implemented, you better find some good reasons why it would improve and fit into the gameplay. i'm waiting...
Didn't say I wanted anything implemented. Just stating that there's little need for someone like you here. Or do you really think the devs will give a shit about what you say?
Take it to PMs please.
Feel free to delete our posts, they're redundant anyways!
Quote from: BurningDeath on March 10, 2008, 04:29:05 PM
Quote from: Gawain on March 10, 2008, 04:25:55 PM
dude, you are the "ignorant dipshit" here. if you want something new implemented, you better find some good reasons why it would improve and fit into the gameplay. i'm waiting...
Didn't say I wanted anything implemented. Just stating that there's little need for someone like you here. Or do you really think the devs will give a shit about what you say?
actually, there is a huge need for more people like me here. half of the people in this forum really suck at ct.
what exactly do you want to reach by flaming me for no good reason? you know what i think of you, and i know what you think of me, so stop spamming these contra productive insults.
mh... Nx.R (or what it's wrote like) was a good clan.
Yesterday i played against Cobr4 and Vip3R. They got owned.
Now anyone, please tell me Nx.R didn't recruit them? I mean, it's really BS to play against fakers (as they were imo)... ::)
Also, in any FPS game, you can easily compare your skill to another persons by playing a duel.
In a 2v2 SAM game it's impossible, because it depend's on simply too much random factors.
By eliminating those, and adding more player-affected components, the game would bring fresh air into the general view on the SAM gameplay.
Wasnt the Grabling Hook idea allready been burned to the ground, like a year ago?
This idea was allready discussed when PS first started right, i think i iven put it on the Ubi forum.
Quote from: Gawain on March 10, 2008, 04:25:55 PM
dude, you are the "ignorant dipshit" here. if you want something new implemented, you better find some good reasons why it would improve and fit into the gameplay. i'm waiting...
As opposed to waiting for good reasons, which are usually presented yet ignorantly bashed, why don't you toss out some good reasons as to why you don't want it in there. As opposed to "its bullshit b/c I am SOOOO PR0." Your input is furthest from purposeful at this point Gaiwan because you don't really post anything worthwhile on certain topics. Except for the usual, "well good ct players like me would do this, this, and this." That warrants absolutely nothing in terms of being "productive."
Quote from: mentalmars on March 10, 2008, 04:55:25 PM
Wasnt the Grabling Hook idea allready been burned to the ground, like a year ago?
This idea was allready discussed when PS first started right, i think i iven put it on the Ubi forum.
This is NOT the NUBI forum. Many of us who post here were banned from there for mentioning PS.
Quote from: Liqu1D_133 on March 10, 2008, 04:54:47 PM
Also, in any FPS game, you can easily compare your skill to another persons by playing a duel.
In a 2v2 SAM game it's impossible, because it depend's on simply too much random factors.
By eliminating those, and adding more player-affected components, the game would bring fresh air into the general view on the SAM gameplay.
Agreed.
I don't think that the grappling hook should be given to both sides because that goes against the whole dynamic of spies and mercs being very different forces. I think it suits the spy's style and main design better than the merc's. The only thing would be making it so that it doesn't give you omfg access to everywhere in the map.
Quote from: Spekkio on March 10, 2008, 06:33:56 PM
I don't think that the grappling hook should be given to both sides because that goes against the whole dynamic of spies and mercs being very different forces. I think it suits the spy's style and main design better than the merc's. The only thing would be making it so that it doesn't give you omfg access to everywhere in the map.
Its funny because in DA the grappling hook wasn't even worth it for the merc side. It was so damn time consuming to watch the animation and him drop down and finally turn around. The spy was long gone by then. It was nice to have the option of running as a merc, with their little charge and what not.
Quote from: Westfall-US on March 10, 2008, 06:37:13 PM
Quote from: Spekkio on March 10, 2008, 06:33:56 PM
I don't think that the grappling hook should be given to both sides because that goes against the whole dynamic of spies and mercs being very different forces. I think it suits the spy's style and main design better than the merc's. The only thing would be making it so that it doesn't give you omfg access to everywhere in the map.
Its funny because in DA the grappling hook wasn't even worth it for the merc side. It was so damn time consuming to watch the animation and him drop down and finally turn around. The spy was long gone by then. It was nice to have the option of running as a merc, with their little charge and what not.
@ Spekkio: I Agree, maybe the spies grapple should be limited to railings and ledges.
@ Westfall: At westfall maybe the animation could be sped so its not as useless as in double agent.
Quote from: 0ctin on March 10, 2008, 07:05:15 PM
Quote from: Westfall-US on March 10, 2008, 06:37:13 PM
Quote from: Spekkio on March 10, 2008, 06:33:56 PM
I don't think that the grappling hook should be given to both sides because that goes against the whole dynamic of spies and mercs being very different forces. I think it suits the spy's style and main design better than the merc's. The only thing would be making it so that it doesn't give you omfg access to everywhere in the map.
Its funny because in DA the grappling hook wasn't even worth it for the merc side. It was so damn time consuming to watch the animation and him drop down and finally turn around. The spy was long gone by then. It was nice to have the option of running as a merc, with their little charge and what not.
@ Spekkio: I Agree, maybe the spies grapple should be limited to railings and ledges.
@ Westfall: At westfall maybe the animation could be sped so its not as useless as in double agent.
LOL, you said "at Westfall twice." I had to double take the post when I first read it ;) . I would be fine with the animation being sped up and the mercs having the grappling hook as long as it still only serves the purpose of dropping floors. Mercs shouldn't be able to grapple up anywhere. I'm pretty sure majority of the people here are looking for only spies to have the grappling hook though. I would be okay if mercs had it only for drop purposes....nothing more. We still need to discuss how much access the spies would have with it. I'm okay to just ledges/railings.
If some sort of grappling hook is going to be implemented, I vote that it should only be for spies. I think the mercs should stay within the 'Good at tracking and killing,' not so much about mobility.
Why should a merc be any more inept than a spy?
I think about it again... and I do not really see the point to have a Grappling Hook in PS. The spy would be moving too fast around the maps or the MERCS would be too much powerful anyway.
the map designers can already place tons of ropes and pipes on the map, so it's kinda unnecessary to give spies a grappling hook. i'm kinda unsure if the mercs should get the ability to get over railings and to get down via grapple hook. it's not really op, but it would encourage camping on the catwalks.
If the spies would always start outside of a building, and have to get inside, it would be fun. Not sure if I would like it in any CT maps, but if the maps are more vertical...maybe.
Quote from: Gawain on March 10, 2008, 09:27:33 PM
the map designers can already place tons of ropes and pipes on the map, so it's kinda unnecessary to give spies a grappling hook. i'm kinda unsure if the mercs should get the ability to get over railings and to get down via grapple hook. it's not really op, but it would encourage camping on the catwalks.
@ Westfall: At westfall my typing is n00b ;)
@ Gawain: Your missing the point here completely. The grappling point would basically allow spies to create there own pipe. And the merc can only use the rapel to go down, from the set rapel points. The mercs cant use it to go up. It wouldn't be overpowering as merc's could be tazed while on the rapel (needs to be discuzzizled) which could give the spy time.
Im also cool with just a spy rapel, i was just suggesting this so the "balance police" *looks at gawain* (said as light heartidly as possible) dont kidnap me. But yeh it could make it more balanced.
Btw, new poster here, have been reading forum for a long time though ;)
Quote from: Ion.67 on March 10, 2008, 10:10:42 PM
If the spies would always start outside of a building, and have to get inside, it would be fun. Not sure if I would like it in any CT maps, but if the maps are more vertical...maybe.
Sorry for double post, this could be used in exehibition or monolith. But obviously the maps in PS MAY be designed around this if it is allowed, so there will be more opportunities to use it.
Quote from: Westfall-US on March 10, 2008, 08:46:40 PM
Why should a merc be any more inept than a spy?
Well it depends on how the grappling hook is implemented, but for gameplay purposes, spies have always been more maneuverable. It makes sense for a lightly-equipped spy to be more maneuverable than a body-armor, heavy gun-wielding mercenary. I took the grappling hook idea as being shot from a gun, not place like the DA mercs.
Quote from: Vega on March 11, 2008, 02:10:48 AM
Quote from: Westfall-US on March 10, 2008, 08:46:40 PM
Why should a merc be any more inept than a spy?
Well it depends on how the grappling hook is implemented, but for gameplay purposes, spies have always been more maneuverable. It makes sense for a lightly-equipped spy to be more maneuverable than a body-armor, heavy gun-wielding mercenary. I took the grappling hook idea as being shot from a gun, not place like the DA mercs.
I'm also envisioning the grappling hook being batman style - ie it retracts quickly, so it'd be faster than climbing a pipe.
Aye, that was actually what I was thinking. However, I'm still iffy about the whole idea. I don't see it being necessarily needed if it's going to retract quickly and only designated for certain spots.
If its being shot, then should it only be shot from below? Doesn't the physics make sense for it to only be shot upward?
The balance would be spies can go up and mercs can go down, but neither can go vice versa.
Quote from: Gawain on March 10, 2008, 04:36:29 PM
what exactly do you want to reach by flaming me for no good reason?
Sound familiar? Sounds just like you, Gawain.
Quote from: Westfall-US on March 11, 2008, 06:24:05 AM
If its being shot, then should it only be shot from below? Doesn't the physics make sense for it to only be shot upward?
The balance would be spies can go up and mercs can go down, but neither can go vice versa.
Huh? Wasn't that the whole intention of the idea in the first place? Yes, it shoots upwards from a gun. The merc, on the other hand, is a different story. I personally don't think a merc should have a grappling hook for descending.
...How about letting the hook grapple only in places that make sense?
I mean, you could grapple on the hook if it was stuck somewhere on a railing, a ladder or whatever, but it wouldn't make sense for it to be climbable if it's only grabbed on a ledge.
Think of it as an anchor.
Ok Ok, say we scratch the Merc grappling hook idea, and just have a spy one. The grappling hook i invisioned wasn't the batman and Robin one which retracts quickly, but having thought about it thats probably a better idea.
I think it'd be fairly balanced if:
1 - It didnt retract to fast.
2 - It made a noise when being fired/attaching to something.
3 - Once grapple is secure it should take spy about a second to connect homself to it
4 - Spies should be able to draw SS on grapple hook
5 - Spies should be able to invert on grapple hook
6 - Spies should be able to control when the grappling hook contracts for how long for (ie they can retract /detract it maybe with "W" & "S")
8 - Grapple should make a noise when retarcting/detracting
9 - Grapple should only be able to be used on railings, ledges
10 - Grapple could be shot and forgotten about (ie you can come back to it later). However this would stop you from using another rappel as you'd need to collect the last one.
11 - Mercs would not have a grapple hook.
12 - Spies should be able to detach themselves Mid-Grapple.
So which points do you not like? :D
all points as there is no need at all for such a gadget.
Quote from: Gawain on March 11, 2008, 12:43:29 PM
all points as there is no need at all for such a gadget.
Gawain, please stop spouting what you want Project Stealth to be an realize that there is more than one opinion in the world. If someone else has an idea, please don't be an ass and shout "lololololol you idea r dumb, i r pro so i r write". Accept that there are other people with different ways of thinking. If you don't like his points, make a counter-point to each one.
i don't have to counter every single aspect when noone even made one single valid argument why a grappling hook would improve the gameplay...
Quote from: Gawain on March 11, 2008, 03:12:36 PM
i don't have to counter every single aspect when noone even made one single valid argument why a grappling hook would improve the gameplay...
Better than someone not making any points about how it wouldn't.
oh, that's quite easy:
-spies have already way more vertical agility than mercs and need no further boost in this regard
-map designers can already put ropes, pipes etc into balanced places
-this is not spiderman, a ninja game or star wars...
Quote from: Gawain on March 11, 2008, 03:40:24 PM
oh, that's quite easy:
-spies have already way more vertical agility than mercs and need no further boost in this regard
-map designers can already put ropes, pipes etc into balanced places
-this is not spiderman, a ninja game or star wars...
What about freedom?
A hook would give the spies a certain vertical freedom and the chance to get to special places alone/quicker. The "no-boost" argument ist your personal opinion.
Balance? Do you honestly think that this will unbalance the game? I'm sure that a smart map designer wouldn't allow such a mistake to happen. It would be quite easy to counter this.
Ok so it seems to me everybody has been hit in the head with a crowbar way to many times because
all of the ideas are unbalanced now. Putting balance into perspective here :
if you wanna give a grappling hook to the spies :
-remove the ziplines
-make it so spies can grappling hook back into a vent that they cant co-op back up into ( maybe )
grappling hook for mercs :
- make it only repelling down from railings
-as west mentioned earlier make the repelling down speed faster
-Possibly add the merc to be able to shoot as he's zip lining down Not scoped.
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I'd say that that would conclude that and those are great ideas of future use once the mod is complete to add things, but People please lets focus more about ideas that are in the current or at least wait for what the dev's have in-store for us.
I don't have one inch of doubt in my mind this is gunna be better then any versus mode we have experienced because , there is alot of pro people backing this project up .. i could go on further about the dev team but Xfire me or pm me and ill tell you my reasoning ).
and you will have the same dev team on the same project .. not a game of musical chairs where the devs are all over the place , which is the current mistake the current splintercell titles have made.. which was more about quanity then quality.
just keep that in mind folks .
- Agentx_003
**off topic note ** : Papaskull im pissed off dude at you, Made you an account , help you setup pinnacle and then you have the nerve to say Oh ya ive played 14 hours... riight when clearly it says on your mini profile that you have only played one hour, seriously stop posting if your not gunna play the game . 2ndly this is the only way i could get your attention scince you live on this forum more then i do.
Quote from: BurningDeath on March 11, 2008, 04:08:23 PM
Quote from: Gawain on March 11, 2008, 03:40:24 PM
oh, that's quite easy:
-spies have already way more vertical agility than mercs and need no further boost in this regard
-map designers can already put ropes, pipes etc into balanced places
-this is not spiderman, a ninja game or star wars...
What about freedom?
A hook would give the spies a certain vertical freedom and the chance to get to special places alone/quicker. The "no-boost" argument ist your personal opinion.
Woohoo, Finnally someone understands why this would be a cool gadget
A batman hook would be cool, and if you attached it to your waist, it would be cooler. Although, the maps would probably need to be a lot more vertical for this to work.
Quote from: AgentX_003 on March 11, 2008, 04:54:05 PM
**off topic note ** : Papaskull im pissed off dude at you, Made you an account , help you setup pinnacle and then you have the nerve to say Oh ya ive played 14 hours... riight when clearly it says on your mini profile that you have only played one hour, seriously stop posting if your not gunna play the game . 2ndly this is the only way i could get your attention scince you live on this forum more then i do.
Slow down there sparky, I have been playing. Just not with xfire on. It's been bugging up my system lately and annoying me and I have been playing with it turned off. It doesn't count your hours when you aren't logged into xfire.
Slow down there sparky, I have been playing. Just not with xfire on. It's been bugging up my system lately and annoying me and I have been playing with it turned off. It doesn't count your hours when you aren't logged into xfire.
[/quote]
seriously , biggest excuse Evvvvvvver , Lennard gawain , b1nary and anybody on the PS team / community doesn't have a problem , so how is possible about of 100s of people you claim to be this minority =/.
Quote from: Gawain on March 11, 2008, 03:40:24 PM
oh, that's quite easy:
-spies have already way more vertical agility than mercs and need no further boost in this regard
-map designers can already put ropes, pipes etc into balanced places
-this is not spiderman, a ninja game or star wars...
-vertical agility doesn't seem to have much relevance when it comes to this game. You did state a fact, but it has no effect on balance because it will never change.
-If you took a zipline to go somewhere in a map.....85-90% of the time you go sniped in the dome. No "good player" would ever take a zipline without knowing he/she were out in the open to be shot.
-The spy is agile like a ninja....right?
Agents post is pretty nice....
Quote from: AgentX_003 on March 12, 2008, 01:24:38 AM
seriously , biggest excuse Evvvvvvver , Lennard gawain , b1nary and anybody on the PS team / community doesn't have a problem , so how is possible about of 100s of people you claim to be this minority =/.
It's not an excuse, it's what is actually happening. Xfire keeps popping up on my screen when I attempt to play. Possibly a keyboard issue? So as of now, I prefer to play with it OFF. Sorry. You may catch me online sometimes without seeing me on xfire.
Quote from: Papa Skull on March 12, 2008, 01:47:08 AM
Quote from: AgentX_003 on March 12, 2008, 01:24:38 AM
seriously , biggest excuse Evvvvvvver , Lennard gawain , b1nary and anybody on the PS team / community doesn't have a problem , so how is possible about of 100s of people you claim to be this minority =/.
It's not an excuse, it's what is actually happening. Xfire keeps popping up on my screen when I attempt to play. Possibly a keyboard issue? So as of now, I prefer to play with it OFF. Sorry. You may catch me online sometimes without seeing me on xfire.
You have to change your chat key binding to 2 different keys.
Really? Would that really be why? As of now it's Prnt Screen + x = xfire menu
But it keeps popping up when I attempt to play and it doesn't come up when I push any other specific button. I'm thinking that maybe my print screen button is screwed up and when I hit "x" it pops it up or something like that. But, the problem with that theory is that it happens when I'm using my xbox controller as well.
Quote from: Papa Skull on March 12, 2008, 01:47:08 AM
Quote from: AgentX_003 on March 12, 2008, 01:24:38 AM
seriously , biggest excuse Evvvvvvver , Lennard gawain , b1nary and anybody on the PS team / community doesn't have a problem , so how is possible about of 100s of people you claim to be this minority =/.
It's not an excuse, it's what is actually happening. Xfire keeps popping up on my screen when I attempt to play. Possibly a keyboard issue? So as of now, I prefer to play with it OFF. Sorry. You may catch me online sometimes without seeing me on xfire.
What do you mean by "popping up." When you start any game, you should get a message in the lower-right corner that in-game chat is enabled. After that, you have to press the specified key combination to bring up the friends list/chat windows (default is scroll lock + x).
I suggest you take a look at what this combination is in the options and fix it to something to your liking (pro tip: don't use any combination with CTRL. It screws up keyboard functionality). If it's not the default, change it back to the default. If the problem is still occurring, you can remedy the problem by disabling in-game chat. This will allow you to have the program open to organize games, but it won't interfere with your gaming.
As far as the XBox controller: it's not compatible with CT versus. If you're referring to other games, then I can't help you there.
Thanks I'll try that later. By popping up I mean when I'm playing the chat thing comes up in my screen. Very annoying. I honestly have no idea what it could be. It only happens when pushing buttons, but I can't find the specific buttons that cause it.
As for the xbox controller, it is compatible if you use the right software (pinnacle profiler). Agent is the one who helped me set it up so for the time being he thinks that he owns me :D