Messages

It's anoying not to be able to see the merc's torchlight

Laser+motion fo life!

"shitty analog controller"  :D

That's funny.  I could call a mouse and keyboard shitty then because I don't prefer them.

I would not call MGS online anything close to a stealth multiplayer game.  I played MGS portable ops, still do sometimes, and it's basically a shooter.  Little to no stealth involved, just like any other shooter out there.

I totally agree with Papa Skull. MGS Online is probably tactical, but not really a stealth game. For sure we could debate what stealth means, but my point is... MGS Online from the old videos I saw was a lot more run and gun than anything else with a MGS touch.

oh, for sure, but i want a box for PS, i dont care if it wastes and equipment slot, it'd be the ultimate shit talking equipment.

^_^

in a warehouse full of boxes it'd be like camo with no emf signiture :D

but seriously, i wasnt refering to the stealth aspects as much as the "intel" aspects, things like the scared vision and teammates ghosting on your screen, even being able to see your allies ammo counter (ever play alien swarm) this intel isnt unreasonable to consider shareable but could help lower coms chatter thus elevating the lower level of play to encourage teamwork.

also, its not from mgs or scct, but key hold map show, kinda like bf2 would be great for players to learn, but maybe that needs is own topic.

Warning controller babble follows:

Why i say shitty controller, when i watch clips of games played with controllers that i feel would be more suited to a mouse, their movement seems harsh and jolty, they overshoot targets, you can see the controller "accerlation" like windows defaults on the "mouse acceleration" to kicking in.

When you play it, i guess the very best can overcome these weaknesses latent inaccuracys of the medium to me? if i'm flying or driving something with a maximum turning speed i perfer a controller, but for games where i can go to looking behind me and 10 degrees higher in a 10th of a second, i'll be wanting a mouse.

Shit... i was thinking about mono-sodiumglutamate(the shit they put on pringles) earlier.

my bad.

yea... its ps3 (we can see if it goes pc one day) but, it shares a common soul with scct as a stealth combat multiplayer game.

http://www.gamevideos.com/video/id/14980

Obviously, its not asymetrical inherently, but the game might supply ideas for ps, the teams are larger, and for shared communications and radar players need to tap each other up (akin to healing your teammate in scct) when linked you share intel (you see a ghost of your friends and see what they see highlighted).

obviously, the game is wrestling on a shitty analogue controller, but ignore that what can this game teach us.

best to piggy back off ut3's feature.

I'm sure epic will bring that to the table.

yea.. i mean fundementally that was the core idea, a train that feels like its moving, a nice persistent train noise and lots of alternative paths on the train. oh.. and if its small, lots of hiding places.

Overhead storage compartments, toilets, lots of windows to hang out of if broken.

can run along the top of the train as spy, even crawl underneath if holding onto a bar which isnt always present, if at all possible, i'd like the pipe climbing to support multiple paths. Such as either carrying on along the train, or coming out along the left or right.

Cutting a cabin from the train would a nice objective (instant death to anyone abord that 1 cabin and a other end of the train spawn for the mercs).

Maybe have occasional train going the other way to add to the atmosphere.

I'm  more than happy to drop the sector based idea, i'm limited in my scct experience to nub matches with friends. I'll admit that a standard free for all with a security hacks makes for a much more intense game with less lameness.

But security hacks on a train? the obvious one is motion doors that only open for mercs getting hacked to be free for all or heh, only motion open for spies while mercs are forced to activate retinal scanners :)

lights are an obvious override.

But, i tyhink the train "stopping" is quite possible, outside textures would be swapped and the area would cease to be a "killzone".

i'll admit the train speeding up could be an odd one.

If the engine suports vehicles awesomely? maybe a vehicle on a looping track could actually be done, but thats pie in the sky.

Woo! Feedback.

I just like the big pic pressure finish. But i'm with you on linearity being a problem, but  atrain does sorta feed the idea.

I guess that will be the greatest challenge, making the train not linear.

so, say you need to complete 3 objectives, but if you suscsesfuly cut the last wagon from the train(which contained the merc spawn) the mercs spawn in the barrarcks part of the nuke carrage and its doors open allowing the nuke to be hacked.

But the spies could still win not hacking it if they get other stuff.

Well, the name project stealth is taken anyway :)

Its a HL2 mod, at least according to moddb, is that you guys before you decided on Unreal?

Now the long wait before the mod can make real progress, this mod will make or brake it wit hthe animations, if they arnt fluid you'll lose alot of immersion.

Make it good enough and turn it into Red Orchestra style sucsess :)

But! If one were to take everything that ha been said at face value Unreal 3 should be very very scaleable, being able to run prettier than ut2004 at the same spec.

Whereas SCDA is working on a bastardised unreal "2.sumit"

I only wonder if the cpu might be too high for all the single core users, used properly a quad core is simply 4 times faster, thats a big deal in a world where cpu development slowed to a snails pace over the last few years. I think thats why some people are so angry at SCDA, it takes a £1000 pc just to play the damn game at a decent res and quality, just not atceptable.

\rant

Whereas HL2 ep 1 runs on my girlfriends 5 year old pc (as long as i use an older set of drivers, 5700fx wont work with the newer ones, but thats a hardware issue :) ) and not just runs either, its pretty and smooth.

Crap, even the system resource hulk which is Battlefield 2 runs on her pc, but SCDA wont even boot due to the shader requirements, and even if it did? My experience on my PC (i played the demo full game any better?) was rediculous.

/rant

And by that, i mean vehicles that are the actual maps.

These arnt visual but i certainly think for at least now i'll class them as "creative" :)

For the slow of mind the following are links.
Map: Locomotive
Train with a nuke
Map: Aerodyne
A plane with sensitive data
Map: Vessel
A dangerous hightech warship

edit:
I thought I'd add, that these arnt actualy moving, even the train, but instead the very basic backdrop is moving, or in the case of the plane, not even that. I'm not sure if i could actually do a departure but i can imagine it could be done with masking a train tunnel, but if the train station was just scenery at the start and you couldnt actualy leave the train i'm sure it would run smoother.

No, comments yet :P

One thing i always felt was missing was a sense of the places being lived in, and i know they are secret places with more secret data but they are meant to be "hidden in plain sight" in the case of things like aquarius and cinema.

The "neck-snappable-pilot" and oldman+air hostess are extentions of that intention. I'm sure it would be doable if counterstrike can have hostages.

The old man brings me to a point of morality, for the spies to win he must die either with a broken neck or in a plane crash. To scare him into the toilets you could kill the air hostess, but alive she can open doors for you. Since they are non combatants i'd like the detection routines to be extremely poor, the airhostess/oldman has a 45 degree arc and only notices you in places flagged as "bright" in the map, or nearby gunfire (friendly or not). The pilot is totally unaware of his surroundings hooked up up the vehicles cockpit by a dozens of fibre optics at the base of his spine and neck, surrounded by legacy vehicle controls covered by a film of dust.

I also have desires that the "train stopped" will be by a field with cows in it, these can be killed with gunfire or grenades, and knocked out with smoke grenades or the spies electric gun :P

Are my ideas good ones? i certainly feel they are doable, need more feedback  ::)

My third map idea, you'll notice a trend this is by no means original.

This map is a traditional 3 stage linear progression map with 3 set pieces.

Set piece one, the mercs must get on the train and activate emergency evacuation (this will change their spawn from a merc truck at the gates of the train station to a "cyro bay" on the train, i would love so much for the player to actually step out of the pod and the number of remaining frozen mercs dictate the lives. Also, this cyobay could be set into deep freeze by a spy meaning no more spawns until another merc reverses it.

Sounds daft, but this objective is actually a merc job, once the train is moving the train can only be boarded by the roof as all the doors will shut and he merc spawn will be much closer to the objectives, the roof spawn will be justified by a helicopter which be dangling an anchored ladder ^_^

So, lets not get ahead of ourselves. The trains objectives are irrelevant of the train moving, but, if 1 spy can slow down the mercs getting on the train the other has freedom to hack the objectives.

Engine room, can be used to stop the train, if the train stops the doors open in a generic forest with high impassible sidings, also mercs are discouraged from going outside due to the helicopters turret. If the train is started and you don't get on the train and get left behind for whatever reason you fade to black and lose 1 life.

The spies can move freely on the roof, but its often transparent to em vision, and not bullet proof in alot of compartments (not here the spy spawn is though). Also the spies can pole slide at set points to the underneath of the train and climb out vents and such.

Let it be realised this is no normal train its a wide one about 10 meters across, yet it will bare many traditional train hallmarks, a baggage compartment, toilets with from the inside open able closable windows. These will prove a great escape method, or a way to let a friend into the train as a spy, both mercs and spies can quickly open and close them and mercs checking the toilets risk exposing their necks to snappity death from behind.

So, objectives? I'm thinking the spies could be doing Aquarius style security hacks that make the mercs job harder and progress the mission, one could destroy the IFF on the door sensors causing door to open for spies too, or require the mercs use the retinal for important doors leaving them exposed. careless mercs will smash windows with nades opening up more entrances for spies.

I really cant think of a thematic to the objective of the train, that's original.

But, it will end as a nuclear explosion, yes the train will bring that pink-white blast at the end of stage 3 of the mission once the nuke goes critical it cant be disarmed (a 5 sec reverse able hack) it will go critical after 30 seconds. and then the spies get 30 secs to run for their helicopter (lawl, they are dead anyway ^_^)

On alternative for completing the mission (as in both will be methods of ending stage 3 in a finished map)is to do a co-op hack 1 rappelling on the outside of the train where he can be sniped from the fair end of the train(on the same side as closely passing trains on the other side meaning you have about a 1 minute window to complete this 10 sec hack, (so only 50 secs) both players must hack their objectives at the same time (its a co-op move of sorts). This causes the warhead to be dropped off the train (it thinks its stationary and unloading and a crane arm dumps it.

So, no nuke blast, but co-op hacking awesomeness.

Btw, any suggestions on mapname? i dont like Locomotive, sounds too comercial.

Right, so anyway, I'm more looking at maps from a woo yea! point of view than balance. I'm thinking about awesome situations.

I really cant think of any "vaguely normal places" like the other maps have been or "military depots".

So, I'm thinking vehicles, planes specifically.
okay, so, it needs to be big to avoid being horrifically linear.

For this map i want more than one way to win, but with one central mechanic, extendible mission time. You have (say) 5 minutes which can be rest at any time by hacking one of a few fairly spread out objectives. The logic behind it will be a transmission going out which you need to corrupt and then destroy the data source.

So, if this transmission goes out? you lose.

Ways to win as spy?

Kill the data before transmission by hacking a series of laptops. Boring, these will be very exposed places, but scattered through out the map, a good candidate for remote hacking if its used.

Or cut the engines, 2 rooms to bomb one in each wing would maybe need a hack before the bomb could even be placed, the bomb would be in a relative dead-end and easy to destroy due to only a few close points of placement, wings are relatively identical.

Kill navigation, the plane will be the return of my neck snappable static pilot, and there will be a AI autopilot hack, this hack will be long (30 seconds?) and very exposed, however, while left alone the hack will go backwards at half speed. so if down to 1 second and left alone for a minute its recharged (the AI is taking back its mind).

The pilot will be the easiest the conquer requiring a 1 sec door hack and a little time in the cabins to get there.

The AI will be in the luggage/undercarriage with some of the laptops,

Oh, one of the laptops? I'd love it to *BE* a guy (kinda like he knows the info rather than having it on a pc) and must be killed a (neck snap, droptech or shoulder bash will kill him), he'd be an old dude in a suit who idles at a chair sipping coffee but when alerted by the spies runs away and cowers in the toilet (which has a vent) if the crude NPCs could be worked in, I'd also love to have a wholly irrelevant air hostess who you can use as a human shield.

She could be used to open some cabin level doors that would normally only open for the mercenaries whether conscious or dead, but alive she can open more (say an optical recognition system which can either be instantly done with the hostess or hacked for 10 seconds without... Cynical mercenaries can execute her at the start. I don't want to discourage this, but i want her death to have a horrific scream. And cause the old man with the suit will hide in the toilet when she is killed making him easier prey.

But he's hardly a primary objective.

Oh, if you don't hack the laptops and kill the guy (so kill navigation or engines) the plane will start to crash cue a countdown and emergency lighting. Spies if down to their last lives will want to evacuate or lose, as the plane will be flooded with an explosion as the countdown finishes but jumping out of the emergency exit or pilots window will activate a skydive cutscene which renders the spy invulnerable. Spies that have won by hacking will still win if they evacuate (which is super easy from the spies safe spawn).

And thus the end.

Not sure how well wave effects could be worked, but if anyone has played cold fear a slight wobble of the point of view with some sequenced waves does wonders.

I'm still pondering a best way to make the map but the map will be the whole boat in a slight storm (giving the spies an outside advantage). Night-time with some nice lightning effects and a few blowy about statics.

the spies will start upon the rear of the ship which will be inaccessible because of an unfortunately arbitrary wall

above the front of the boat a large swinging crate hacking it/using it wont be an objective but wil cause it to fall down and smash a cargo door opening that up, the only other way in is an exposed door near the front of the vessel (maybe merc spawn) just out of the rain.

Another entry point would be the chimney stack of the boat, climbing this requires a co-op move, the chimney stack is a trap of a sort during any period of a 10 second vent walk if a merc flushes the vent with steam the spy is killed (maybe even both spies) after that they are at one of 2 separate places in the boat.

One thing i really want is a spy objectives which is the ship captain (say its a high tech warfare ship that requires only one pilot wired up into a chair, but i want the "hack" to be a neck snap. Quick but easy enough to defend, or alternatively there is a hack to the life support systems which will cause him to go into cardiac arrest.

Other objectives? i like the idea of a staged assault level 1 2 and 3, but instead of the linear attack have a killer objective that can only be completed once other parts of the mission are fulfilled.

Hacking this wont be an instant win, it will cause the launch of a missile at the vessel from a spy friendly boat, for the last 30 seconds of the (1:30 long) missile attack the anti missile defences must remain hacked, forcing spies to either aggro suppress a number of objectives.

Either both main power and backup must be down (further apart more exposed for spies) or 1 electronic countermeasures hub easier to guard cos its just 1 objective.

When the missile strikes the mercs are essentially dead, but if the spies were down to their last lives the mercs could snatch a victory by killing them. The water level will rise, i believe drowning was handled well in Aquarius having water over your head for 10 secs would be fatal. So, the spies run to the high ground, once the water reaches above the merc spawn the game ends mission completed and a helicopter arrives, the heli shows up soon after the missile strikes above the main craft and is armed with a turret against mercs (stopping anyone trying to kill the rightly victorious spies who are safe on the deck.) it will wobble about a bit as if buffeted by wind might be able to use a generic ut3 helicopter.

The only thing i need to avoid is too many narrow corridors.

The engine room will be an objective which will totally spike the EMP vision rending it useless, I'd also live all non spies moving objects (maybe not doors) to show passively on motion tracking. just like a very slowly moving spy might, but i know that's not for a map designer to worry about.

I'll get to ms painting something later.

I'd like to mention the missile can be relaunched if the anti missile shoots it down, and I'd love to actually have a chain gun thingy turret on the deck that when it successful stops a missile actually spins to target something invisible in the sky and shoots a flak like chain cannon with a deafening roar causing an explosion in the sky.

Ooh, also i either want the mission to start at sunset, or even more awesomely once the boat is sank the sun rises and gives off funky bloom and orange sky.

a Computerised voice, thats specicaly not human.

Add an option to have 1 hack on the map that corrupts the voice but leaves the visual hints uneffected. ^_^