Tips on making a map.

[Snakebit.]

I almost forgot one very important thing. The spawn system and spawns in general. Making 1 spawn point is a bad idea . 1st of all it limits the access of mercs to some objectives during start meaning he won't be able to place fast mines at all against rush and 2nd that spawn camping will be easier. 3rd is that after death he will need to run longer . Make 1 or 2 spawn point on map like in club 1st 2nd floor and when you die you spawn in crap room.

Oh you implement sc:ct far spawn system. Means that merc always spawns the farthest spawn possible from 2 spies.

[YaYz0r]

Snakebit, which maps are your favorite ones and most balanced in your opinion?

[Snakebit.]

Snakebit, which maps are your favorite ones and most balanced in your opinion?

Most balanced maps are probably Polar Base , Club house and Museum.

My favorites are Orphanage , Bank , Warehouse , Deftech , Club ............... so on and most unfavorite is steel squat because its the most unbalanced map in my opinion.


You might think why bank , warehouse and deftech ? People don't play those maps often so its not so hard to win on them as spy as you think. Nobody just tries to play them thats all. Somebody 'thought' that they are mega unbalanced and require more agro then usual maps but i really don't think so.


Bank and warehouse are all about sector 1 rest sectors are easier . Deftech is about the knowledge what to do outside and what to do inside.

[AgentX_003]

Snakebit, which maps are your favorite ones and most balanced in your opinion?

Most balanced maps are probably Polar Base , Club house and Museum.

My favorites are Orphanage , Bank , Warehouse , Deftech , Club ............... so on and most unfavorite is steel squat because its the most unbalanced map in my opinion.


You might think why bank , warehouse and deftech ? People don't play those maps often so its not so hard to win on them as spy as you think. Nobody just tries to play them thats all. Somebody 'thought' that they are mega unbalanced and require more agro then usual maps but i really don't think so.


Bank and warehouse are all about sector 1 rest sectors are easier . Deftech is about the knowledge what to do outside and what to do inside.

personally i believe deftech is real challenge and you cant use aggro effectively so its more of a stealth based map.

[Snakebit.]

The biggest problem is that people think its 'impossible' to be stealthy in those maps so they totally disregard stealth and that is one thing that you shouldn't be doing in SvM. If you can't do it , it doesn't mean it is impossible and stealth is not usually 100% stealth . 100% stealth is not needed. For example if a merc goes to far from the nd and you know you will get there faster then him while running , you should start running and start hacking the nd. And tricking your opponent on those maps is very important , making them wonder 'where the hell are you'.

[VaNilla]

I agree with Deftech and Bank, but immediately the mercs have a great advantage in sector one of Warehouse as you can see the only entries into the map with great ease from two positions, the top floor ND and the stairs, and you can reach these very quickly. With the size of that sector being relatively small there isn't many places the spy can hide once you have seen them enter the sector against somebody who knows the map.

[Snakebit.]

I agree with Deftech and Bank, but immediately the mercs have a great advantage in sector one of Warehouse as you can see the only entries into the map with great ease from two positions, the top floor ND and the stairs, and you can reach these very quickly. With the size of that sector being relatively small there isn't many places the spy can hide once you have seen them enter the sector against somebody who knows the map.

Switch between aggro and stealth , aggro out of the way and go stealth a bit. Do it in a mix and you will be able to ambush cam people without a problem. Or neck or Ledgegrab or jump. Just use some imagination.

The biggest mistake people do at warehouse is that they rush strait to the nd. Thats bad . Don't do it. Let your mate get 1 guy busy atleast.

[Spekkio]

You might think why bank , warehouse and deftech ? People don't play those maps often so its not so hard to win on them as spy as you think. Nobody just tries to play them thats all. Somebody 'thought' that they are mega unbalanced and require more agro then usual maps but i really don't think so.

If people spent 1/2 the time practicing merc on those maps as you did developing and practicing spy tactics, they'd win every time. The only way you'd have a chance is to host and abuse host jump/host quick cam/longer shock times.

"Nobody plays these maps except us, so we can win on them" doesn't make a map balanced, or fun.

"Wondering where the hell are you?" isn't hard on those maps, either. Warehouse sector 1 is one room. Bank is 1 room. Deftech is one outside area where you have to trip an alarm to get inside. Between two mercs patrolling with MT + mines at entrances to slow you down, it's really not that difficult to lock these areas down.

Bank is extra stupid because in the unlikely event that you can get sector 1, it's nearly impossible for the mercs to stop the rush to sector 2.

I do agree that Squat and Hospital are two of the least balanced maps in the game. It's just that most people suck at spy, so they think these maps are even.

As for your original post: a lot of your complaints have to do with lag. Unfortunately, you can't balance a game for some players getting 200+ ping, one player getting 0, and one player getting 40. It's just not possible. The best you can hope for is that the player base is large enough so that people can find games in their area, and to not have a dozen different hidden game mechanics that give the host an additional unfair advantage (ie, always showing a radar arrow, longer shock time, straight trap lazers, bigger jump hitbox, etc). You have to balance the game for 0-75ish ping...the rest will just fall into place.

[LennardF1989]

always showing a radar arrow, longer shock time, straight trap lazers, bigger jump hitbox, etc).

If those are the host advantages then Ubisoft messed up big-time. I'm not even sure I want the CT-source code when I read such things.

[Snakebit.]

You might think why bank , warehouse and deftech ? People don't play those maps often so its not so hard to win on them as spy as you think. Nobody just tries to play them thats all. Somebody 'thought' that they are mega unbalanced and require more agro then usual maps but i really don't think so.

If people spent 1/2 the time practicing merc on those maps as you did developing and practicing spy tactics, they'd win every time. The only way you'd have a chance is to host and abuse host jump/host quick cam/longer shock times.

"Nobody plays these maps except us, so we can win on them" doesn't make a map balanced, or fun.

"Wondering where the hell are you?" isn't hard on those maps, either. Warehouse sector 1 is one room. Bank is 1 room. Deftech is one outside area where you have to trip an alarm to get inside. Between two mercs patrolling with MT + mines at entrances to slow you down, it's really not that difficult to lock these areas down.

Bank is extra stupid because in the unlikely event that you can get sector 1, it's nearly impossible for the mercs to stop the rush to sector 2.

I do agree that Squat and Hospital are two of the least balanced maps in the game. It's just that most people suck at spy, so they think these maps are even.

As for your original post: a lot of your complaints have to do with lag. Unfortunately, you can't balance a game for some players getting 200+ ping, one player getting 0, and one player getting 40. It's just not possible. The best you can hope for is that the player base is large enough so that people can find games in their area, and to not have a dozen different hidden game mechanics that give the host an additional unfair advantage (ie, always showing a radar arrow, longer shock time, straight trap lazers, bigger jump hitbox, etc). You have to balance the game for 0-75ish ping...the rest will just fall into place.

Bank to sector 2 is possible to stop very easy. It is possible to hide in bank, but hiding doesn't mean you need to hide for more than 10-15 seconds. More than that is time wasting imho (on that map atleast. ) .

Warehouse is same. You don't need to hide there for more than 10-15 seconds usually.

Deftech is the best tactical map probably. To win there you need some good tactics nothing more , nothing less. Well may be 1 old cam.

With all having 0 ping running around will still be possible.

[YaYz0r]

@ Snakebit, I honestly didn't think you'd like a map like Polar Base. The bomb time so long, drilling tower disk is too hard to get and the NDs are very close to each other. Oh yeah, and then the surface is white, which makes it even easier to see spies.

Steel Squat on the other hand just plays perfectly with the shutter hacking, darkness and all that stuff. And same does Mount Hospital with it's seperation of mercs and dark corners.

UBI's version of Warehouse sucks bigtime as it's so hard for the spies, especially in the first sector. Making it an extraction map would make it very nice though, I think.

In Deftech it's too easy to just camp the disk and bombing obj, IMO. Making an ND on the ground floor in building A and keeping one of those on the first floor would probably fix this.

In general I don't agree on all of the points you made in the first post though I think, that a lot of what you've said is true.

[Roberto1223]

add a 'defuse bomb' objective!!

[Snakebit.]

@ Snakebit, I honestly didn't think you'd like a map like Polar Base. The bomb time so long, drilling tower disk is too hard to get and the NDs are very close to each other. Oh yeah, and then the surface is white, which makes it even easier to see spies.

Steel Squat on the other hand just plays perfectly with the shutter hacking, darkness and all that stuff. And same does Mount Hospital with it's seperation of mercs and dark corners.

UBI's version of Warehouse sucks bigtime as it's so hard for the spies, especially in the first sector. Making it an extraction map would make it very nice though, I think.

In Deftech it's too easy to just camp the disk and bombing obj, IMO. Making an ND on the ground floor in building A and keeping one of those on the first floor would probably fix this.

In general I don't agree on all of the points you made in the first post though I think, that a lot of what you've said is true.

Polar base is a balanced map. Just doing some objectives at end or start is useless. For example taking the top tower disc to the panel hacks at start is 10x times easier than at end. Blowing the bombs is usually easier at end than taking 1 of the hacking nds. Hacking something at start is easy enough if you get 1 person to sleep. Taking the house disc is also easier at start.

The top tower disc isnt that hard to drop at that hacking house. Just people don't try it that often , you just need your partners help a bit. And i don't mean the coop. Plus you can just use it as a distraction. Hacking panel is 6 sec to drop the disc. A nd with 6 sec in a way. Simple punch + taz gives you 3-4 seconds. Flash at end of punch + taz gives you additional 1 sec probably . So thats like 4-5 sec already. I doubt he will be able to stop you hacking the panel.





Steel squat is an imbalanced map. Its a bit to easy for the spies and relies on ping way to much. You can't hold all nds and it is based a lot on luck (Will your mines blow anything or not , will instas kill someone , will you be able to trick someone , will your nade get him in stupid spots) . Ofcourse camping 1 building with double uzi is also an option BUT if you get camed 1 time , well 2 at most you will loose for sure.

[YaYz0r]

@ Snakebit, I honestly didn't think you'd like a map like Polar Base. The bomb time so long, drilling tower disk is too hard to get and the NDs are very close to each other. Oh yeah, and then the surface is white, which makes it even easier to see spies.

Steel Squat on the other hand just plays perfectly with the shutter hacking, darkness and all that stuff. And same does Mount Hospital with it's seperation of mercs and dark corners.

UBI's version of Warehouse sucks bigtime as it's so hard for the spies, especially in the first sector. Making it an extraction map would make it very nice though, I think.

In Deftech it's too easy to just camp the disk and bombing obj, IMO. Making an ND on the ground floor in building A and keeping one of those on the first floor would probably fix this.

In general I don't agree on all of the points you made in the first post though I think, that a lot of what you've said is true.

Steel squat is an imbalanced map. Its a bit to easy for the spies and relies on ping way to much. You can't hold all nds and it is based a lot on luck (Will your mines blow anything or not , will instas kill someone , will you be able to trick someone , will your nade get him in stupid spots) . Ofcourse camping 1 building with double uzi is also an option BUT if you get camed 1 time , well 2 at most you will loose for sure.

That is pretty much the same feeling I have about Polar Base. It's just a hit-n-run map and if you're lucky you won't run into the merc's random mines. If you're host you'll be capable of insane jumps which is a big advantage in Polar Base with all the boxes to jump from and so. Drilling Tower Disk is just too hard to get even if you're two spies - then the other merc will just come to support his mate and then it's basically impossible to succes for the spies. You also have time to defuse the bomb even though you're in the other side of the map because of the long timer. Maybe lowering this timer and making another drop off for the drill-disk would make it a better map, but I don't know.

[Spekkio]

Steel Squat on the other hand just plays perfectly with the shutter hacking, darkness and all that stuff. And same does Mount Hospital with it's seperation of mercs and dark corners.

Except you don't even need to use those shadows...just shock and run around, tapping each objective for 2-3 seconds before running elsewhere. There's literally nothing to stop you since chaff goes through walls.

And yea, Polar Base is the same thing, except it's bugged to hell. I dunno how anyone can play that map in its current state.

@Lennard: Yes, those are all host advantages. There's even more, but I haven't played in a while and those were the first few to come to mind.